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Wow those promos are...... wow
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Aug 8, 2018 22:12
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MorgaineDax posted:Living Witness where The Doctor ends up in a museum. God I wish this was real and the show was Warship Voyager from here on out
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Aug 8, 2018 22:38
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i'd like to see a star trek series without the fetishistic military order of starfleet. do some good sci-fi storytelling with the world they've built. an Asimov detective sort of vibe would be fun people are so concerned with the uniforms and rank pips and command order of starfleet, it's pretty boring imo
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Aug 8, 2018 22:41
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WampaLord posted:God I wish this was real and the show was Warship Voyager from here on out My man have you heard of Discovery Low Desert Punk posted:i'd like to see a star trek series without the fetishistic military order of starfleet. do some good sci-fi storytelling with the world they've built. an Asimov detective sort of vibe would be fun They’re concerned with it because that’s, by miles, the most interesting and unique aspect of Star Trek. The rest of the universe is nothing special on its own. Even after 50 years there are HUGE parts of the setting that are totally undefined even in the reams of unofficial fan wank about the franchise just because nobody cares. e: “unique” might not be the right word because Lensman, Forbidden Planet, etc did pretty much the same thing first and countless imitators and challengers have done the same thing since, but my point is that its portrait of a hierarchical, regimented, but fundamentally not morally negative or even aggressive form of militarized life is what constitutes the distinctive appeal of Star Trek. As opposed to Star Wars where our protagonists are religiously/politically motivated terrorists, or Dune where our protagonists are butthurt galactic elites cosplaying as the same, or Dickian madman protagonists trying futilely to pull order out of our disordered and incomprehensible society, or what have you. skasion fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 22:52
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skasion posted:They’re concerned with it because that’s, by miles, the most interesting and unique aspect of Star Trek. The rest of the universe is nothing special on its own. Even after 50 years there are HUGE parts of the setting that are totally undefined even in the reams of unofficial fan wank about the franchise just because nobody cares. Honestly? That sounds like more reasons to do a non-Starfleet series. Spend most of the episodes planetside, feature a xenopsychologist detective whose job it is to figure out what's keeping planets from joining the Federation or keep Federation planets from leaving in disgust. That could be an interesting angle to take.
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Aug 8, 2018 22:58
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No one knows how the Federation works, practically at all, and any detailed explanation is probably impossible without contradicting on screen events. Plus, once you do that you've filled in all the little bits that the shows tend to fill in a tiny bit at a time. You've closed a lot of doors for future shows. Mostly, I'm just not sure I trust anyone to do it well enough to not make lots of lovely things canon
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Aug 8, 2018 23:03
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Honestly? That sounds like more reasons to do a non-Starfleet series. Spend most of the episodes planetside, feature a xenopsychologist detective whose job it is to figure out what's keeping planets from joining the Federation or keep Federation planets from leaving in disgust. That could be an interesting angle to take. My point is nobody would care. There’s extremely little that makes the Star Trek setting a more desirable setting to do that in than any other famous sci-fi setting, or better yet, an original one actually tailored to a new story’s needs and not a fifty year old one full of bizarre cruft and self-contradictory nonsense.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:04
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The Bloop posted:No one knows how the Federation works, practically at all, and any detailed explanation is probably impossible without contradicting on screen events. I'm watching DS9 at the moment and I'm wondering how the starfleet dudes pay for drinks at Quark's. I reckon they put it on expenses and there's some admin guy at starfleet HQ who has to check all the receipts and approve them. I bet Quark rinses them dry
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Aug 8, 2018 23:07
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I'm watching DS9 at the moment and I'm wondering how the starfleet dudes pay for drinks at Quark's. I reckon they put it on expenses and there's some admin guy at starfleet HQ who has to check all the receipts and approve them. I bet Quark rinses them dry The accepted handwave seems to be that Starfleet has a reserve of latinum and pays anyone who is stationed somewhere where they might need currency to spend.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:09
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WampaLord posted:The accepted handwave seems to be that Starfleet has a reserve of latinum and pays anyone who is stationed somewhere where they might need currency to spend. My theory is that the Federation uses money. Does it contradict canon? Probably. But the no money thing was something that Gene Roddenberry came up with in his TNG days, and Gene also decided in his TNG days that people never had any disagreements and didn't get sad when a loved one dies, so gently caress canon in that regard,
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Aug 8, 2018 23:24
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I like to imagine the Federation is constantly replicating free local currencies for their citizens to use, inadvertently crashing planet-wide economies every week.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:26
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I like to imagine the Federation is constantly replicating free local currencies for their citizens to use, inadvertently crashing planet-wide economies every week. Then they send in federation recovery consultants who show them how to use modern non-financial economic systems. 10-25 years later, bam! New federation member.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:33
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23 minutes before someone brings up Tuvok’s wife in the Tuvix episode. So selfish. And it’s one quick line hand waved away.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:45
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Brawnfire posted:Then they send in federation recovery consultants who show them how to use modern non-financial economic systems. 10-25 years later, bam! New federation member. Eddington was right, the Borg are at least honest about what they want to do. I think this is the problem with any sort of insight into how the UFP works, it's god drat terrifying if you stop and think about it. Edit: Hell let's consider the Klingon perspective on losing at least part of their fleet at Wolf 359 "Well that was an awful battle but we took the day. Out of interest how did the Federation come into contact with the Borg?" "Funny story, one of our ships got blasted like 20,000 light years across the galaxy and encountered them, we think they followed us" "You humans and your exploration, we told you it's dangerous" "Well don't worry, it was more of an omnipotent being intervening" "Oh poo poo. Like those Organian assholes? Yeah they suck" "Exactly, it was just unfortunate that the Federation Captain involved bragged to him that humanity was ready for anything and well whoops?" "The gently caress?" "Also that same Captain was the one leading the Borg invasion that shithoused your fleet" "Extradition. Now" J33uk fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 23:53
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J33uk posted:Eddington was right, the Borg are at least honest about what they want to do. I think this is the problem with any sort of insight into how the UFP works, it's god drat terrifying if you stop and think about it. So let's say you have a gigantic, wildly successful interstellar civilization whose citizens are overwhelmingly happy (and in a genuine way, not in a "mandatory diet of psychotropic drugs" way), and you want to not be a "terrifying" "Borg-like" influence on all your neighbors. How would you do it?
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Aug 9, 2018 00:04
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Eddington was not right, he was a bullshit little man who wanted free reign to execute a campaign of ethnic cleansing after his organization's attempts to engineer a second round of interstellar warfare failed, and he had the sheer audacity to preach about the superiority of homemade food to a guy who used to help work in his dad's retro-restaurant where all the food is made by hand.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:05
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:So let's say you have a gigantic, wildly successful interstellar civilization whose citizens are overwhelmingly happy (and in a genuine way, not in a "mandatory diet of psychotropic drugs" way), and you want to not be a "terrifying" "Borg-like" influence on all your neighbors. How would you do it? I'll point to the edit I made above about the wildly successful part. Successful right until they poke the hornets nest. Or get into a war with the Cardassians. Or the Dominion. I'm also honestly being pretty flippant and contrarian, I'd love to live in the Federation.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:06
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Brawnfire posted:Then they send in federation recovery consultants who show them how to use modern non-financial economic systems. 10-25 years later, bam! New federation member. So they’re backdoor neoliberal borg
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Aug 9, 2018 00:08
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Quark_And_Garak_Root_Beer.mp4 Ah hell, I'll just post it as an excuse to watch it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk
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Aug 9, 2018 00:14
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Exactly. The federation is arrogant and expansionist, just with standards for initiating step 1 and only middling degrees of violence
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Aug 9, 2018 00:14
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:So let's say you have a gigantic, wildly successful interstellar civilization whose citizens are overwhelmingly happy (and in a genuine way, not in a "mandatory diet of psychotropic drugs" way), and you want to not be a "terrifying" "Borg-like" influence on all your neighbors. How would you do it? If everyone is so happy, why are so many people leaving?
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Aug 9, 2018 00:15
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I’ve seen literally hundred and hundreds of hours of Trek. TOS, TNG, DS9, TAS, DISCO, VOY. And I’m still not sure how Vulcan’s emotions work. Do they feel the emotions but suppress them intentionally? Do they involuntarily suppress emotion like breathing? Do they just not have the capacity to feel emotion at all? I know they used to be “barbaric” and all, but what exactly happened to get them to where they are now? I recall some references to a Vulcan who started teaching meditation methods or something? Maybe that’s totally wrong. Can someone explain this to me!
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Aug 9, 2018 00:16
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Tunicate posted:If everyone is so happy, why are so many people leaving? They're the weirdos who can't be happy in paradise because they've been poisoned by Protestant Work Ethic bullshit and think that growing tomatoes on a barren hellworld makes them better people. Like, you can even just work a job in the Federation if you want to "nobly struggle" or whatever but that wasn't hardcore enough for these folks, it has to be real struggling or else it's pointless
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Aug 9, 2018 00:16
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Tunicate posted:If everyone is so happy, why are so many people leaving? “Paradise” proved that....... ha ha ha I can’t
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Aug 9, 2018 00:16
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Tunicate posted:If everyone is so happy, why are so many people leaving? There's a lot DS9 got wrong about Star Trek in service of being a better, more compelling show. Nonetheless, those people pretty much always turn out to be morons.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:18
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The Maquis are selfish morons and they got all that they deserved.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:22
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Windows 98 posted:I’ve seen literally hundred and hundreds of hours of Trek. TOS, TNG, DS9, TAS, DISCO, VOY. And I’m still not sure how Vulcan’s emotions work. Do they feel the emotions but suppress them intentionally? Do they involuntarily suppress emotion like breathing? Do they just not have the capacity to feel emotion at all? I know they used to be “barbaric” and all, but what exactly happened to get them to where they are now? I recall some references to a Vulcan who started teaching meditation methods or something? Maybe that’s totally wrong. Can someone explain this to me! It's as simple as emotion control eventually turning into a planet-wide religion. They still feel emotion they just don't like it affect their judgement (or so they say). And yeah, one guy started it with dumb basic poo poo. Surak I think? Sarek is Spock's dad right? I always confuse those two names. I want to say that Vulcan is mostly a desert planet because they nuked themselves at least once but that might just be extended universe junk.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:25
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Windows 98 posted:I’ve seen literally hundred and hundreds of hours of Trek. TOS, TNG, DS9, TAS, DISCO, VOY. And I’m still not sure how Vulcan’s emotions work. Do they feel the emotions but suppress them intentionally? Do they involuntarily suppress emotion like breathing? Do they just not have the capacity to feel emotion at all? I know they used to be “barbaric” and all, but what exactly happened to get them to where they are now? I recall some references to a Vulcan who started teaching meditation methods or something? Maybe that’s totally wrong. Can someone explain this to me! Vulcans used to be full of emotion, apparently a good bit more violently so than humans. A teacher arose called Surak who built a new society where he preached logical discipline as a means to control emotion. Some rejected this discipline and nuked the gently caress out of Surak and his society, then left Vulcan to set up their own empire. That’s the Romulans. The guys who survived on Vulcan rebuilt as a society which dogmatically followed Surak’s teachings on logic and emotional restraint. They still feel emotion but consider displaying it to be taboo, or at least in very bad taste. This restraint is kind of bad for you apparently, which is why it needs to be suspended every seven years so they can temporarily enter a kind of apeshit fugue state only to be dispelled by loving like rabbits. Restraining emotion is considered to be a mandatory moral discipline or philosophical practice; there’s some kind of priestly caste which practices (it claims) the total purgation of emotion. If you don’t do it right then you’ll be an outcast from Vulcan society.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:28
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Windows 98 posted:I’ve seen literally hundred and hundreds of hours of Trek. TOS, TNG, DS9, TAS, DISCO, VOY. And I’m still not sure how Vulcan’s emotions work. Do they feel the emotions but suppress them intentionally? Do they involuntarily suppress emotion like breathing? Do they just not have the capacity to feel emotion at all? I know they used to be “barbaric” and all, but what exactly happened to get them to where they are now? I recall some references to a Vulcan who started teaching meditation methods or something? Maybe that’s totally wrong. Can someone explain this to me! It's hard to separate out what Vulcans as a whole are actually like, since so often writers fall back on assuming they are all like Spock. General consensus seems to be that they do feel emotions but repress them to an unhealthy degree. The episode Sarek is pretty much entirely about it.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:32
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Ok so when Tuvok or Spock says they “can’t” feel the same way what they really mean to say is “won’t”
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Aug 9, 2018 00:32
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Vulcans do feel emotions, this is completely and totally inarguable and only bad actors and scriptwriters get confused about it.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:35
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Windows 98 posted:Ok so when Tuvok or Spock says they “can’t” feel the same way what they really mean to say is “won’t” Yeah, combined with the fact that it does seem correct that as a result of all the repression they aren't good at experiencing subtle emotions, if they let anything out it tends to explode.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:35
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Windows 98 posted:Ok so when Tuvok or Spock says they “can’t” feel the same way what they really mean to say is “won’t” Think of it like someone with alcoholism saying they can't drink the same way you do. Sure, they technically can drink, but once they get started they aren't able to control it like you are.
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Aug 9, 2018 00:35
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Vulcans sound like insane Christian people
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Aug 9, 2018 00:36
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:What if it were a previously unknown sibling as Spock? Now thats-a what I call a Staaaaaar Trek!
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Aug 9, 2018 00:38
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Windows 98 posted:Vulcans sound like insane Christian people More like kung fu movie protagonists who are super impassive shao lin monks until their home village gets murdered by the bad guy and they start spin kicking folks about
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Aug 9, 2018 00:39
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skasion posted:More like kung fu movie protagonists who are super impassive shao lin monks until their home village gets murdered by the bad guy and they start spin kicking folks about Aside from the god they worship they also sound like insane Christian people. Maybe I should’ve just said Religious
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Aug 9, 2018 00:40
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There was a fairly good scene in Voyager of Tuvok with his emotional suppression removed. I know a lot of people in the thread aren't fond of Voyager, but Tim Russ just does a great job of making the character so...menacing, like a caged tiger. (He also kills Neelix in the episode. Unfortunately, it's just a hologram). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXtjlHmZiQI
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Aug 9, 2018 00:56
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Russ is good and Tuvok is good too, when they give him a chance. It’s just that his character goes almost nowhere and has nothing interesting to do most of the time. B’Elanna has the same problem.
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Aug 9, 2018 01:02
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Epicurius posted:There was a fairly good scene in Voyager of Tuvok with his emotional suppression removed. I know a lot of people in the thread aren't fond of Voyager, but Tim Russ just does a great job of making the character so...menacing, like a caged tiger. (He also kills Neelix in the episode. Unfortunately, it's just a hologram).
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Aug 9, 2018 01:11
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