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When Newtypes stop what they're doing and freak out because they "feel" other Newtypes like, flying by or whatever, what do you reckon that feels like? Is it like a brain freeze? Head rush?
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Aug 30, 2018 00:23
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Lemon-Lime posted:Origin is mostly an upgrade and given how many people didn't get the memo on Char being a sociopathic manchild, making it 200% more explicit was the right choice. I think the problem is that it makes him feel a little too competent rather than a directionless, indecisive fuckup, and doesn’t adequately provide setup for Zeta. Quattro is really, genuinely trying to be a good person, and while he has very little natural talent for it, he does eventually succeed spectacularly through sheer determination... before his mistakes catch up with him and the girl he accidentally turned into the greatest supervillain of the Universal Century steamrolls him and takes over the solar system in the name of his mortal enemies, the Zabis.
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Aug 30, 2018 00:25
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Waffles Inc. posted:When Newtypes stop what they're doing and freak out because they "feel" other Newtypes like, flying by or whatever, what do you reckon that feels like? Is it like a brain freeze? Head rush? Newtypes connect with each other. I imagine it’s just that you’re getting a sudden dose of someone else’s inner thoughts and sensory input. Hardcore dissociation.
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Aug 30, 2018 00:26
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Waffles Inc. posted:When Newtypes stop what they're doing and freak out because they "feel" other Newtypes like, flying by or whatever, what do you reckon that feels like? Is it like a brain freeze? Head rush? I've always seen it described as 'pressure', it probably feels like something pressing on your head, like a pressure headache, or something.
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Aug 30, 2018 00:51
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Lemon-Lime posted:Origin is mostly an upgrade and given how many people didn't get the memo on Char being a sociopathic manchild, making it 200% more explicit was the right choice. Agreed
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Aug 30, 2018 01:09
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How soon we forget that char laughed like a supervillain when he betrayed Garma. Dude was always an rear end in a top hat
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Aug 30, 2018 01:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:How soon we forget that char laughed like a supervillain when he betrayed Garma. Dude was always an rear end in a top hat The problem is, again, that the Origin both makes him a more competent rear end in a top hat and downplays, subverts, or removes the times when he isn’t an rear end in a top hat. Char’s assholishness is a significant part of his personality in the original UC saga, but not the only one.
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Aug 30, 2018 01:52
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Arcsquad12 posted:How soon we forget that char laughed like a supervillain when he betrayed Garma. Dude was always an rear end in a top hat There's an rear end in a top hat getting his revenge, and then there's the entire young Casval arc.
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Aug 30, 2018 01:53
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Well what would you rather have, then? Tomino didn't really hash out the details of young Casval's life too much. Really the only questionable thing I found was his crazy bloodlust driving the Guntank, but I felt that, alongside his willingness to kill to protect Artesia, the scene helped establish Char's weakness for his sister. After they're separated from their mother, Artesia is the only other person Char cares about, but to get his revenge, he has to leave her behind and give himself entirely to vengeance. He only backs down from his Guntank rampage because of Artesia, so to achieve his goals he needs to act without hesitation, which means letting go of the last bit of his old life. It ties rather nicely into how weird his interactions are with Sayla during 0079. He doesn't really act like a brother overjoyed to see his sister again, but he tries (awkwardly) to mend things with her, in rather bizarre fashion, like giving her a briefcase full of gold like he's a pirate.
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Aug 30, 2018 02:06
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I wouldn't rather have anything, I'm fine with his portrayal in Origin. It was just an observation that his issues are much, much more blatant in that version, and if you use it as your version of 0079 before jumping into the rest of UC it can make things a little awkward in Zeta. MSG Char might have stood a chance at pulling Quattro off, if circumstances allowed it. Origin Char was doomed from the start.
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Aug 30, 2018 02:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well what would you rather have, then? Tomino didn't really hash out the details of young Casval's life too much. Really the only questionable thing I found was his crazy bloodlust driving the Guntank, but I felt that, alongside his willingness to kill to protect Artesia, the scene helped establish Char's weakness for his sister. After they're separated from their mother, Artesia is the only other person Char cares about, but to get his revenge, he has to leave her behind and give himself entirely to vengeance. He only backs down from his Guntank rampage because of Artesia, so to achieve his goals he needs to act without hesitation, which means letting go of the last bit of his old life. More inner conflict, more meandering without so strong a sense of purpose. In the show itself, Char’s vendetta against the Zabis is kind of half-assed and opportunistic, and he keeps getting distracted by stuff like his love of suit piloting and finding out that his dad was kinda-sorta right about Newtypes. Have his early successes be less a result of design and more a result of accident. In the original UC saga, Char is kind of a bumbling mess beneath his superficial veneer of competence, which IBO later riffed on spectacularly with McGillis.
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Aug 30, 2018 02:16
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm waiting on the first volume of the Origin but I think I might take a crack at the dub of the series as well. I listened to some clips and it sounds a lot better than I thought it would.
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Aug 30, 2018 02:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:How soon we forget that char laughed like a supervillain when he betrayed Garma. Dude was always an rear end in a top hat Before Origin, I always found it hilarious how his betrayal clearly seemed like a spur of the moment thing than any real major plan. Like, yeah, he wanted to kill the Zabi family all along, but in the series/movies he was like "hey, there's the White Base, I better let Garma kno- ..... waaait... I have an idea" kind of thing rather than some of the Light Yagami-esque plans he pulls in Origin.
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Aug 30, 2018 03:29
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I remember one of the essays in the first volume of The Origin kind of offhandedly throws out the idea that the manga is at least partially a reaction to 9/11- I wonder if Char's characterization here (I.e. being more overtly scheming or whatever) is part of that.
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Aug 30, 2018 04:02
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I think Origin to good and bad effect is generally a lot more skeptical about a lot of characters. I think Revil kinda gets it in the teeth as well (which I like) and frames Ral siding with the Zabis as a bit of a personal failing. I also really like the way it frames early Bright as being a real dick. On the whole, I think it's a weird mixed bag that I really like but I still prefer the original Gundam's version of events. Also, I think there is literally no way the Char in Origins and the Char in Zeta are even remotely supposed to be the same character.
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Aug 30, 2018 04:55
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But they aren't. One is called Char and the other is Quattro Vagina, who is a Char. If Quattro and Four met Quatre, would they beat him up for sounding like Amuro?
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Aug 30, 2018 05:28
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Sam Sanskrit posted:I think Origin to good and bad effect is generally a lot more skeptical about a lot of characters. I think Revil kinda gets it in the teeth as well (which I like) and frames Ral siding with the Zabis as a bit of a personal failing. I also really like the way it frames early Bright as being a real dick. On the whole, I think it's a weird mixed bag that I really like but I still prefer the original Gundam's version of events. It's a bit more cynical about Revil, but he still comes across fairly well overall. Like, he has the scenes with Degwin, and Kai is cynical about him (Kai is cynical about everyone), and he's one of the Federation officers when they're being assholes around side 3... But he's the only person who seems to realize that things are going to go down, he's a skilled and dedicated commanding officer, and he has a scene with Amuro where he actually talks about how Newtypes shouldn't just be a way for people to slaughter each other. Of course, I'd also say one person who benefited from the changes was Mirai. With Bright being a prick, she had a lot more of a role in keeping things together. Of course, given her general role throughout, the Sleggar subplot feels even weirder.
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Aug 30, 2018 05:57
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Sleggar is there to resolve the Cameron subplot, nothing more.
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Aug 30, 2018 06:16
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Darth Walrus posted:There’s usually a distinction drawn in the franchise between a backpack with wings (good for gliding and jumping) and a full aerial mode (true flight), and outside the CE, most machines that break this rule have something other than raw thrust keeping them in the air. The Tallgeese flat out flies despite not having a transformation or even really any aerodynamic considerations, changing altitude on the fly as and when needed to react to things, including elevating itself. The Wing, Wing Zero and Epyon all fly in their untransformed states too. Shinjobi posted:I don't blame them either. It took a while after I finished Zeta before my brain finally clicked with how absolutely monstrous the Titans truly were. On their own sure, but considered in the context of UC and compared with the likes of Zeon and Zanscare they honestly don't seem that bad. Zeon at least tried to drop orbital objects on Earth 4 times in total between 0079, 0083, ZZ and Char's Counterattack, succeeding in most attempts, they're at least partially responsible for the death about 50% of the current human population (mostly within a few days) and their leader wanted to cull a large portion of humanity to make it easier to control the rest. Zanscare wanted to rule by fear, starting with executions by guillotine but eventually moving on to making huge wheeled battleships that flattened entire cities so as to keep the rest in line. The Titans gassed one colony and tried to drop another, but I don't think they're that bad when you look at some of their competition. Even Cosmo Babylonia created swarms of weaponized AI drones they wanted to use to cleanse the planet of it's population. UC had some seriously lovely people. Microcline posted:3. A high-budget simulacrum made by fanboys 40 years later (i.e. Char is a badass psychopath mastermind instead of a short-sighted fuckup) You seem to be implying this is an improvement, but Char being a short-sighted fuckup who keeps laying the foundation for his own fall or undermining himself is part of his charm. Killing Garma was almost a spur of the moment thing, and ended up making his quest for vengeance harder for himself since the Zabis essentially exiled him for a while but he just couldn't not do it when the chance presented itself. He brought Lalah in to the war to help him defeat the Gundam and ended up falling for her, so when she died it just made him hate the Gundam more and when he becomes obsessed with the Gundam he ends up helping the Zabis to enact his new desire for revenge on the Gundam and almost ruining his own quest for vengeance on the Zabis without thinking about it. Making Char a badass psychopath mastermind makes him more generic and takes away from what makes him interesting rather than adding to it to me. tsob fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 16:11
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tsob posted:You seem to be implying this is an improvement, but Char being a short-sighted fuckup who keeps laying the foundation for his own fall or undermining himself is part of his charm. Killing Garma was almost a spur of the moment thing, and ended up making his quest for vengeance harder for himself since the Zabis essentially exiled him for a while but he just couldn't not do it when the chance presented itself. On the Garma betrayal at least I feel like he was done in by his own reputation more than anything. It was a good enough plan and nobody would have suspected any foul play if Garmas escort didn't happen to be Zeon's most (in)famous ace.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:06
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tsob posted:You seem to be implying this is an improvement, but Char being a short-sighted fuckup who keeps laying the foundation for his own fall or undermining himself is part of his charm. Killing Garma was almost a spur of the moment thing, and ended up making his quest for vengeance harder for himself since the Zabis essentially exiled him for a while but he just couldn't not do it when the chance presented itself. He brought Lalah in to the war to help him defeat the Gundam and ended up falling for her, so when she died it just made him hate the Gundam more and when he becomes obsessed with the Gundam he ends up helping the Zabis to enact his new desire for revenge on the Gundam and almost ruining his own quest for vengeance on the Zabis without thinking about it. Making Char a badass psychopath mastermind makes him more generic and takes away from what makes him interesting rather than adding to it to me. A simulacrum refers to a copy without an original, essentially an object more in line with how the observer perceives the object than how it really is. The changes they made to Char are a very meta example because one of the key points in the UC is how people keep projecting their own myth onto Char. To the creators of The Origin he's the stock archetype of the emotionless purveyor of hypercompetent violence ("badass") when in the original he's constantly making impulsive emotional decisions and is at best a good pilot and middling newtype.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:02
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Waffles Inc. posted:When Newtypes stop what they're doing and freak out because they "feel" other Newtypes like, flying by or whatever, what do you reckon that feels like? Is it like a brain freeze? Head rush? I've always thought it's like the feeling you get when a storm is coming. You feel the difference in the atmosphere, whatever it might be, and you just kinda know. So it's that but amped up to where you get a Newtype Flash. Probably feels electric. tsob posted:You seem to be implying this is an improvement, but Char being a short-sighted fuckup who keeps laying the foundation for his own fall or undermining himself is part of his charm. Killing Garma was almost a spur of the moment thing, and ended up making his quest for vengeance harder for himself since the Zabis essentially exiled him for a while but he just couldn't not do it when the chance presented itself. He brought Lalah in to the war to help him defeat the Gundam and ended up falling for her, so when she died it just made him hate the Gundam more and when he becomes obsessed with the Gundam he ends up helping the Zabis to enact his new desire for revenge on the Gundam and almost ruining his own quest for vengeance on the Zabis without thinking about it. Making Char a badass psychopath mastermind makes him more generic and takes away from what makes him interesting rather than adding to it to me. I think what sums up Char's appeal is he's not plotting the downfall of the Zabis every second of every day. He wants all those other things, i.e. his reputation as an ace, the glory of being the one to destroy the Gundam, restoring his father's ideals, even love. But he has to make decisions about what he wants most at any given time and what he can actually pursue. Heath Ledger's Joker was great, but he kinda poisoned the well for a lot of villains who came after.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:03
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I dunno if I'd class Origin Char as a mastermind. Most of the more overtly psychopathic things he does are still spur of the moment things that he does off the cuff because he's adept at thinking on his feet rather than because he has a 42 point plan on How To Murder the Zabi Family. He's obviously working towards that goal, but it doesn't feel like he's putting together a Rube Goldberg Machine to do it, if that makes sense. I'd say the biggest difference between 0079 Char and Origin Char is personality. 0079 Char comes off as, well, human; he's smooth and charismatic when he wants to be, and an rear end in a top hat when the mask slips(such as when he kills Garma), but he feels like a person. Origin Char has this serial killer intensity to him that makes him much harder to empathize with; the times when he's friendly are much more obviously false, and he has a lot of moments that are basically psychotic breaks(such as when he beats the poo poo out of that dude at Texas Colony) that make him kind of terrifying.
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Aug 30, 2018 23:42
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Yeah Origin Char is far from an evil genius (which is what fucks him over most times) but he's smart, talented, and, most importantly, quick on the uptake. Basically all of his greatest hits are just him seeing an opportunity and going for it. He is much harder to empathize with than OG Char, but I do think he's a legitimately well done interpretation of the character.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:08
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Complete Psychopath Char sounds neat as an interpretation, but part of what makes OG Char interesting to me personally as a character is pretty much that he isn't that, or at worstdoesn't start as that.
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Aug 31, 2018 10:55
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EthanSteele posted:Complete Psychopath Char sounds neat as an interpretation, but part of what makes OG Char interesting to me personally as a character is pretty much that he isn't that, or at worstdoesn't start as that. Also, newtype flashes are an ASMR thing.
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Aug 31, 2018 11:54
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Huh, I kinda want a Lalah ASMR roleplay now.
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Aug 31, 2018 12:11
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Psycho Landlord posted:I wouldn't rather have anything, I'm fine with his portrayal in Origin. It was just an observation that his issues are much, much more blatant in that version, and if you use it as your version of 0079 before jumping into the rest of UC it can make things a little awkward in Zeta. It feels like Origin both illustrates Char's socipathic villainy better but also really enjoys it. Char gets a lot of screen time. He's handled sympathetically as a kid, and when he starts doing really crazy stuff, the story just walks on by that, and it feels like one of those people who are like "well yeah so-and-such is an rear end in a top hat, but he's our rear end in a top hat! Look at him giving poo poo to those guys! What an alpha male!".
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Aug 31, 2018 14:33
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TIL that in the 13th century there was a guy named Gundam Raul. Apparently he had "extraordinary powers of perception" including "the ability to foresee deaths, fires, and other future events and the ability to discern the secret thoughts of his disciples". My only conclusion, clearly backed by strong historical evidence, is that Gundam was, in fact, a Newtype this whole time.
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Sep 1, 2018 08:15
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Raxivace posted:TIL that in the 13th century there was a guy named Gundam Raul. What if... that is the Gundam that Setsuna always talks about becoming  .
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Sep 1, 2018 13:13
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tsob posted:Huh, I kinda want a Lalah ASMR roleplay now. 
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Sep 1, 2018 18:54
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junopsis posted:It feels like Origin both illustrates Char's socipathic villainy better but also really enjoys it. Char gets a lot of screen time. He's handled sympathetically as a kid, and when he starts doing really crazy stuff, the story just walks on by that, and it feels like one of those people who are like "well yeah so-and-such is an rear end in a top hat, but he's our rear end in a top hat! Look at him giving poo poo to those guys! What an alpha male!". But he's not even "our" rear end in a top hat, as it goes on. People the narrative clearly likes, like Sayla and Kai, just go "loving hell, what a piece of poo poo." Well, for Sayla, it's more "You don't have to be such a piece of poo poo!", but the point stays. The narrative might think he's impressive, but when Char's Amuro's main rival, he kind of has to be if the fights are going to have tension. (And by Jaburo, things have shifted from "Holy gently caress, it's CHAR, Amuro's screwed" to "How can we handicap Amuro so that Char won't die on the spot?") I think a difficulty in keeping Char's old depiction is that the original Gundam was kind of written week-to-week. Char's goals were vague and contradictory because the writers weren't sure about them. The Origin can't keep the exact feel because it wasn't a deliberate choice, but, at most, a lucky accident. There was some of it kept (the back half is Char increasingly abandoning revenge for Newtype nonsense until Sayla knocks him out of it), but ultimately Yas had to decide between writing that fit with the Char people remember (Vengeance minded genius mobile suit pilot who was still kind of a fuckup) and writing that focused more on the Char aspects people forgot (purestrain fuckup). Considering the character's cultural position, I can't say I blame him for the way it went. Edit: That said, yeah, the movies focused in on the parts that are most Char Is Amazing, which... does unbalance things. In the manga, even by this point you got things like Kycellia saying she had her suspicions and Amuro managing to fight nearly evenly with Char while in a GM (With Char going "Who is this legendary ace who can keep up with me?" and Amuro going "What is this piece of poo poo, I can't move fast enough, I am basically Garbage Pilot right now, why couldn't the Gundam be working?") On top of that, they make Char even more of a sociopath, so something that works in the manga is unbalanced in the films. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 20:31
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chiasaur11 posted:There was some of it kept (the back half is Char increasingly abandoning revenge for Newtype nonsense until Sayla knocks him out of it), but ultimately Yas had to decide between writing that fit with the Char people remember (Vengeance minded genius mobile suit pilot who was still kind of a fuckup) and writing that focused more on the Char aspects people forgot (purestrain fuckup). Considering the character's cultural position, I can't say I blame him for the way it went. I haven't read most of The Origin, so maybe he pursues a Newtype agenda with some fervor there but he doesn't do so at all in the TV show. He barely even mentions Newtypes except to mention them in relation to Lalah or Amuro. It seems to be something people haven't forgotten or remembered, so much as something people just kind of assume he was more concerned with based on his portrayal in Zeta. The movies make some slight changes in that he tells Kycilia he wants to see a Newtype age when she confronts him with his identity, but he's also obviously lying in that scene given that his only concern at that point and for the rest of the movie is killing Amuro. The other change the movies make in that regard is for Sayla to accuse him of wanting to create a Newtype society, which he rejects by saying he's not that foolish or arrogant. Now, that doesn't mean he doesn't want one on some level because the one constant about Char is that he lies, but the more important thing is that at no point in the TV show or movies does he actually do anything to advance any kind of Newtype agenda meaning if he had some aspirations he placed them really low on his list of priorities. The original 51 episode television proposal has him involved in more Newtype stuff; but mostly in him throwing more Newtypes at Amuro. It's Amuro who develops a bit of a Newtype agenda after becoming fed up with killing Newtypes. I think the novels are much the same, though I haven't read them to verify for myself. What Char does do is tell Lalah that she shouldn't assume she's invincible because she's a Newtype and that it's possible that Newtypes are only the result of a mutation due to war and later tell Amuro that Lalah would be happy to have been involved in the war despite her death since she wouldn't have become a Newtype if not for that, so he may think of them that way; even if only to ease his own guilt over using them or something. That seems to be kind of a thing for how people view Char really. A lot of people see his actions in Char's Counterattack as partially or even primarily motivated by a desire to bring about some kind of Newtype revolution, but he barely mentions them in the film either. He talks to Nanai about Quess being one, he talks about Lalah when Nanai brings her up and he mentions them once during the Sweetwater speech if I recall. I'm pretty sure that's it. Any mentions are in passing while discussing other things, basically. He seems far more motivated by Contolism/Ereism (i.e. getting people off Earth) than any kind of Newtype motive. Which is something he was concerned with in Zeta too. His speech at Dakar is motivated in part by those things, and it's what he and Amuro talk about as they share that glass of whiskey in the scene people regularly use as foreshadowing of his view point in Char's Counterattack (i.e. that he's a sacrifice). I wouldn't even say he's notably concerned with Newtypes in Zeta (and thus at all) really, since Contolism/Ereism seems to be the part of his father's legacy he seems more concerned with in both Zeta and Char's Counterattack as far as I can see. He does bring them up more, talking to Kamille about Deikun's Newtype theory as they're on the shuttle after the first trip to Earth when Four "dies" for instance, but the big scenes people remember (like the above two) are usually more concerned with getting people to move to space and healing the Earth than with mankind's evolution. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 00:57
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The theory goes that people in space are more likely to awaken as Newtypes. Getting everybody off of the Earth means everyone is in space, which means more people awakening as Newtypes. Char's a shithead so its difficult to know if he really believed in any of the things he speaks about, but him wanting to get people off of Earth is part of the Newtype revolution/mankind's evolution thing. That's the souls weighed down by gravity stuff.
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Sep 2, 2018 17:53
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The wiki has a helpful quote from the novelisation that explains exactly what Zeon's philosophy is about :quote:It is the height of arrogance for those who remain on Earth to look up at the heavens and believe they can continue to rule over all its inhabitants. It is true that we - the space colonists - were largely shipped from Earth against our will as a population-control measure. But now we are developing a new identity and awareness. We are a new people. We live, eat, and sleep among the stars. We live in infinite space, and we will have access to infinite energy until the sun burns out fifty billion years from now. Our consciousness will expand, and infinite space will be our true home. God has given us the stars to live among. I've left out the ~half of the quote that talks about newtypes and posted only the half of it that is concerned with preserving Earth on an ecological level, but he's definitely concerned with more things than "space means we become newtypes" as the reason to get people off Earth, and that 110% carries over into Char's motivations throughout the Universal Century. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 19:12
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EthanSteele posted:The theory goes that people in space are more likely to awaken as Newtypes. Getting everybody off of the Earth means everyone is in space, which means more people awakening as Newtypes. Char's a shithead so its difficult to know if he really believed in any of the things he speaks about, but him wanting to get people off of Earth is part of the Newtype revolution/mankind's evolution thing. That's the souls weighed down by gravity stuff. He seemed to buy into it as leader of the AEUG, but it’s not clear how much of what he was doing in CCA was just him picking a fight with Amuro because he’s terrified of responsibility and was having a giant mid-life crisis.
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Sep 2, 2018 19:18
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I didn't mean to imply it was the only reason for getting people off planet. Probably should have said that the Newtype thing was part of getting people off planet instead of the other way around!Darth Walrus posted:He seemed to buy into it as leader of the AEUG, but it’s not clear how much of what he was doing in CCA was just him picking a fight with Amuro because he’s terrified of responsibility and was having a giant mid-life crisis. I definitely feel like Quattro has a lot of Char's most sincere moments, even with "I've never betrayed anyone"
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Sep 2, 2018 20:01
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Beyond the coffee shop owner in Unicorn, do many shows or side stories really go into the fact that the Earth still has an immense population of impoverished lower class citizens? The few times White Base encounters civilians in 0079 it makes sense that they're struggling given the damage caused by the war, but there isn't much that I've seen about the lower class earthborn who still live there. My point is the zeon ideology that Earth is populated by only the social elites is a big fat lie, and Origin Char, at least, knows that given his time on earth.
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Sep 2, 2018 21:17
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Arcsquad12 posted:Beyond the coffee shop owner in Unicorn, do many shows or side stories really go into the fact that the Earth still has an immense population of impoverished lower class citizens? The few times White Base encounters civilians in 0079 it makes sense that they're struggling given the damage caused by the war, but there isn't much that I've seen about the lower class earthborn who still live there. Everyone else probably got packed off to space with various levels of incentive ("cheap house! good job! does voting really do anything anyway?") and coercion ("three traffic tickets? you're going to Side 5")
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Sep 2, 2018 21:24
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EthanSteele posted:The theory goes that people in space are more likely to awaken as Newtypes. Getting everybody off of the Earth means everyone is in space, which means more people awakening as Newtypes. Char's a shithead so its difficult to know if he really believed in any of the things he speaks about, but him wanting to get people off of Earth is part of the Newtype revolution/mankind's evolution thing. That's the souls weighed down by gravity stuff. Does he ever actually say or imply he wants people to go in to space because that way they'll turn in to Newtypes though? In Zeta he attends a Federation cabinet meeting with Blex and afterwards the two of them complain about how Jamitov is ignoring the conditions of Africa and saying politicians living on Earth is fine and at Dakar a lot of his speech concerns how people living on Earth are loving up the planet so they need to move in to space. Then in Char's Counterattack Char gripes to Amuro about how selfish the people of Earth are and that he wants to kill them all before giving out that it's because Earth won't last that he's going to punish them. He might lie through his teeth when he thinks it'll get him something (he tells the people of Sweetwater he's dropping Axis to stop people fighting over control of the Earth in his speech for instance), but at some point you have to believe something the guy says and he seems emotionally invested in the idea of letting the planet recover as well as to continue pushing it as an idea for long enough (i.e. in Zeta and Char's Counterattack) that I do think it's something he believes in. Not to mention that Quess basically adopts his apparent positions in Char's Counterattack so as to remain close to him, and she talks about how Oldtypes are going to destroy the planet too. It just seems like a more prevalent concern throughout Tomino's works than human evolution. Lemon-Lime posted:I've left out the ~half of the quote that talks about newtypes and posted only the half of it that is concerned with preserving Earth on an ecological level, but he's definitely concerned with more things than "space means we become newtypes" as the reason to get people off Earth, and that 110% carries over into Char's motivations throughout the Universal Century. The Zeta novels aren't translated beyond a few random excerpts like that, but the impression I've gotten over the years was that Newtypes were just a theory that Deikun proposed to show why humans leaving the planet would be a good thing and would advance society since those were his main goals. As far as I can gather, he proposed the existence of Newtypes to support those things rather than proposed those things as support for Newtypes like people often seem to think is the case. Arcsquad12 posted:My point is the zeon ideology that Earth is populated by only the social elites is a big fat lie, and Origin Char, at least, knows that given his time on earth. Char and Sayla spent some time living on Earth with Jimba Ral after their parents were murdered according to the flashback Char has of Deikun's assassination while he's talking to Sayla in the ruins of Texas Colony, so regular UC Char should know it as well. Sayla seems aware of it at least, and has a conversation with Bright in episode 3 or 4 about him being from Earth where she seems to take the piss out of the idea Earthnoids like Bright are the elite before saying she came from Earth herself prior to living in Side 7. We also see quite a few people living in less than stellar conditions in Zeta (Hong Kong), ZZ (Dublin & Africa), Char's Counterattack (Lhasa & Hong Kong again) and Victory (Kasseralia and other parts of Eastern Europe). We do see one or two people living in palatial conditions, but the colonies seem more idyllic on the whole; though it's not universally true there either, given the existence of Shangri-La, Moon Moon, Sweetwater and Palau. Nessus posted:My impression is that Earth is transitioning heavily towards being boutique resort luxury living for the Federation elite, plus the inevitable undercaste of proletarians needed to make the boutique resort luxury living possible That might have been the hope of some of the richer people when UC kicked off it's space colony program, but we barely see any Federation elite so I find it hard to swallow that it's something that's actually going to happen. On the other hand we see entire cities filled with people who obviously aren't making a great living and their existence doesn't seem to be directly tied to the support of an elite class of any kind. We do see a squad of what seem like Manhunters (from Hathaway's Flash and Gaia Gear) chasing Quess and her friends at the very start of Char's Counterattack, but Christina and one of the other guys can be seen on a beach watching the sky at the end of the film so the Manhunters (if that's what they are) can't have been too eager to deport them. By Victory the Federation is pretty powerless even on Earth too. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 23:41
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