USPOL THUNDERDOME: "Democrats Bad" Containment Zone

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL THUNDERDOME: "Democrats Bad" Containment Zone

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I think the "Obama: good or bad?" debate can't really be had without referencing Ta-Nehisi Coates's article on his presidency:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/my-president-was-black/508793/

Obama, for better or worse, had to strategically embrace radical optimism and aggressive bipartisanship, and had to totally reject anger and confrontation, because that was the only path a black kid in America had to success at the kind of level Obama was aiming for. But that very same willful optimism blinded him, both to the actual evil of his opponents and to the possibility that consensus and bipartisanship could lead to radically wrong places.

Obama was probably the best President we could have gotten at the time. It should have surprised no one that the response to a black president was right-wing insanity, though; race has always driven this country to insanity (see: the civil war).

I dare you to actually try to apply this to his specific policies like entitlement reform, trade, etc. This argument you're making only makes sense if you completely ignore all the specific details. It's just a remarkable erasure of history.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 22:51

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# ? May 24, 2024 15:57

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

hobotrashcanfires posted:

If you're so certain a fascist wave was coming no matter what, care to explain how this was some inevitability?

This article is by far the best on the subject:

https://eand.co/what-america-still-doesnt-understand-about-fascism-6be87e33b7e3

Obama's role? The entire recovery from 2008 on, the real income and wealth increase? Almost all to the top few % of the USA. Obama took "the public option" off the table before HCR was even presented to Congress. That might have made a difference. The other thing was protecting the banksters. The famous:

"I'm the only thing standing between you and the pitchforks"

Line.

VideoGameVet fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Sep 7, 2018

# ? Sep 7, 2018 22:57

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Ah yes, Obama was hoodwinked by evil whitey. This is why he immediately ran off to parasail on Richard Branson's private Billionaire island, and started buckraking in speeches, rather than, you know, doing anything involved with stopping Trump, the evil kaiju monster that the white psyche manifested to destroy him.

This is the dumbest possible hot take response to Coates' article.

Here's the thing:

Coates' argument is (roughly) accurate, but it does not absolve Obama. Obama chose to blind himself because he knew that was the path to success. Without Inspirational We're All One America Speech, there is no Retire To Branson's Yacht Party. Obama saw that deal and took it; it was his choice. He wasn't hoodwinked, he made a deal.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 22:59

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

This is the dumbest possible hot take response to Coates' article.

Here's the thing:

Coates' argument is (roughly) accurate, but it does not absolve Obama. Obama chose to blind himself because he knew that was the path to success. Without Inspirational We're All One America Speech, there is no Retire To Branson's Yacht Party. Obama saw that deal and took it; it was his choice. He wasn't hoodwinked, he made a deal.

That's the best way I have seen it phrased.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:10

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Obama is basically what the right wing of the US should be, and everyone to the right of that should be fired out of a cannon into the sun.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:22

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

This is the dumbest possible hot take response to Coates' article.

Here's the thing:

Coates' argument is (roughly) accurate, but it does not absolve Obama. Obama chose to blind himself because he knew that was the path to success. Without Inspirational We're All One America Speech, there is no Retire To Branson's Yacht Party. Obama saw that deal and took it; it was his choice. He wasn't hoodwinked, he made a deal.

Coates literally says he trusted white America.You've now rephrased that as some sort of intentional blinding.

I don't like talking about Coates because he's a good writer and can turn a phrase but he leaves enough room that you can't actually be sure of what his point is. I also think he fucks up pretty regularly.

Anyway this isn't productive, I didn't come here to argue about Coates's takes for chrissake. I couldn't care less.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:30

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Don't blame the smooth Harvard lawyer with impeccable do-good credentials and vacuous-to-repressive neoliberal politics, he was tricked!

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:30

Spun Dog: Sep 21, 2004; Smellrose

Oh, I just figured out what thread I was reading.

Keep up the great work guys

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:34

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Spun Dog posted:

Oh, I just figured out what thread I was reading.

Keep up the great work guys

I think it could use more team spirit.

# ? Sep 7, 2018 23:47

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

Yeah, more team spirit!

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1038177555810009088

# ? Sep 8, 2018 00:08

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

That poo poo's so dumb. It'd be like pledging not to kick a dude in the balls during a fight, when the dude you're fighting has said "nuh uh I don't agree to that" and has a known history of kicking people in the balls while fighting. You just know it's going to end badly and you're gonna get kicked in the balls.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 00:17

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

PT6A posted:

That poo poo's so dumb. It'd be like pledging not to kick a dude in the balls during a fight, when the dude you're fighting has said "nuh uh I don't agree to that" and has a known history of kicking people in the balls while fighting. You just know it's going to end badly and you're gonna get kicked in the balls.

I agree that we really need a woman to be president

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW_PqcwHGqE

# ? Sep 8, 2018 00:22

Oh Snapple!: Dec 27, 2005

How you gonna link a video of that scene that doesn't include "SHE BLUFFING, FINISH HER!!!"

# ? Sep 8, 2018 00:27

Mia Wasikowska: Oct 7, 2006

Pankaj Mishra wrote a really good critique of Coates and his views on Obama, as well as Obama himself, for the LRB: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n04/pankaj-mishra/why-do-white-people-like-what-i-write

# ? Sep 8, 2018 01:13

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

35 years of the GOP pushing for it?

It's possible , but in no way guaranteed. In the same way that Obama not being elected could have led to a different result. we just don't know. Fox news and the GOP mache was going to push for facism no matter who was elected. I think you underestimate ho w far gone 35% of the country really is if you think they would have accepted any help from the black man president.

Wait, so Obama is more responsible for facism than the actual fascists? Do you guys forget that there is an active movement pushing for it in this country, and it's not just because the first black president was a moderate republican.

There's always an active movement pushing for fascism. That's not something that can be solved, short of draconian thoughtcrime laws. But what determines whether they gain a foothold or not is overall conditions in the country. The fascists aren't gaining power because they pushed for fascism, they gained power because late-stage capitalism is pushing this country into an ever-more-rapid spiral toward the drain. And Obama was the best-positioned president to fix that since at least LBJ, if not FDR.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 01:28

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Main Paineframe posted:

The fascists aren't gaining power because they pushed for fascism, they gained power because late-stage capitalism is pushing this country into an ever-more-rapid spiral toward the drain. And Obama was the best-positioned president to fix that since at least LBJ, if not FDR.

Reminder, one of the profiles-in-courage for that neo nazi rally last year was a rube hoping to get a whole 36 hours a week at Kmart. So much for the over the top pomp and circumstance aesthetic of fascism.

Overthrow democracy to establish a brutal ethnostate to get almost full time retail is the new nazi dream. I suspect Obama's entire presidency was a ruse to a secure a fast
food endorsement considering Michele's Let's Move Campaign endorsed the Subway kids menu, and I wouldn't be shocked if Clinton's political career was as a mole for Wal-Mart.

Even the way this country collapses is a trashy embarrassment. We're a failing strip-mall being anchored by a Family Dollar at this point.

The American Dream was bought out by Pizza Hut, the president eats the crust backwards.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 02:19

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

Oxxidation posted:

and everyone still likes him better than anyone on the left

that's a lol

I like how apparently popularity is a redeeming quality for a politician in a country where the Republican party controls every level of government at the federal level and the vast majority of them at the state level.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 19:25

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

joepinetree posted:

I like how apparently popularity is a redeeming quality for a politician in a country where the Republican party controls every level of government at the federal level and the vast majority of them at the state level.

Popularity with the same capitalist pig-men interests at least.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 19:45

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

joepinetree posted:

I like how apparently popularity is a redeeming quality for a politician in a country where the Republican party controls every level of government at the federal level and the vast majority of them at the state level.

for all his many issues, obama never had any trouble getting himself elected

# ? Sep 8, 2018 20:00

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Zas posted:

Pankaj Mishra wrote a really good critique of Coates and his views on Obama, as well as Obama himself, for the LRB: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n04/pankaj-mishra/why-do-white-people-like-what-i-write

This was a lot to chew on, thanks for sharing the link.

# ? Sep 8, 2018 20:38

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

https://twitter.com/abesilbe/status/1038524814246522880

Schumer and Gillibrand were willing to make BDS illegal last year. The Democrats are not equipped to fight fascism if they are willing to go to bat for fascists in a different country.

# ? Sep 9, 2018 00:02

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Dear Koala girl, you should give my posts a chance. Also if we talk about why you don't like me, maybe you can help me grow as a person.

drilldo squirt fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Sep 10, 2018

# ? Sep 10, 2018 03:25

Honey Trap Queen: Jul 30, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

drilldo squirt posted:

Dear Koala guy, you should give my posts a chance. Also if we talk about why you don't like me, maybe you can help me grow as a person.

.1) KM is a girl, don't misgender someone who just dragged you for referring to a transperson as "it".

.2) It is not the job of a black woman to teach you to be less racist, but she did just start a youtube channel for video essays about this, so maybe you should subscribe, or join her patreon.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:12

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Honey Trap Queen posted:

.1) KM is a girl, don't misgender someone who just dragged you for referring to a transperson as "it".

.2) It is not the job of a black woman to teach you to be less racist, but she did just start a youtube channel for video essays about this, so maybe you should subscribe, or join her patreon.

Sorry for misgendering the rude lady person who hates me for no reason.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:17

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

I didn't know she was a lady and probably will forget she exists shortly.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:18

Honey Trap Queen: Jul 30, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

And yet you did care enough to come over to this unrelated thread and cry about it.

:thunk:

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:32

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

It's like 10 seconds of effort to ask if someone wants to have a conversation, and I've lost nothing by them deciding not to.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:33

Prester Jane: Nov 4, 2008; by Hand Knit

drilldo squirt posted:

It's like 10 seconds of effort to ask if someone wants to have a conversation, and I've lost nothing by them deciding not to.

We are all very impressed by how very not mad you are. Also we totally buy that you are here to ask questions in good faith and not to try and find some sort of opportunity to harass a person of color. You are clearly just an average goon casually posting in a thread for kicks and not someone with an obvious agenda that you're trying to shoehorn in to the conversation.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:39

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Prester Jane posted:

We are all very impressed by how very not mad you are. Also we totally buy that you are here to ask questions in good faith and not to try and find some sort of opportunity to harass a person of color. You are clearly just an average goon casually posting in a thread for kicks and not someone with an obvious agenda that you're trying to shoehorn in to the conversation.

What agenda?

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:42

Koalas March: May 21, 2007

Prester Jane posted:

We are all very impressed by how very not mad you are. Also we totally buy that you are here to ask questions in good faith and not to try and find some sort of opportunity to harass a person of color. You are clearly just an average goon casually posting in a thread for kicks and not someone with an obvious agenda that you're trying to shoehorn in to the conversation.

This is what got me. In the Trump thread, I stated I had him on ignore. So if you want to have a good faith conversation (with a person you know has you on their ignore list) why would move it to a separate thread you have no idea if I'm following or not?

This whole thing reads like some calm-hitler.jpg trap.

Real talk ds: if you have changed, that's awesome! If you want to be more knowledgeable about social justice and the like I suggest following TGRS or yes (shameless plug) my YouTube channel because those are where I am down to educate.

Believe it or not constantly educating folks is seriously draining and occasionally frustrating which is why I do so in specific times and places.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:44

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Koalas March posted:

This is what got me. In the Trump thread, I stated I had him on ignore. So if you want to have a good faith conversation (with a person you know has you on their ignore list) why would move it to a separate thread you have no idea if I'm following or not?

This whole thing reads like calm-hitler.jpg

Real talk ds: if you have changed, that's awesome! If you want to be more knowledgeable about social justice and the like I suggest following TGRS or yes (shameless plug) my YouTube channel because those are where I am down to educate.

Believe it or not constantly educating folks is seriously draining and occasionally frustrating which is why I do so in specific times and places.

I didnt wana poo poo up that thread with this?

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:45

Koalas March: May 21, 2007

drilldo squirt posted:

I didnt wana poo poo up that thread with this?

A km derail in the Trump thread ain't no thing 🤷🏾‍♀️

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:47

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Also I'm super excited about my agenda now.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:47

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Koalas March posted:

A km derail in the Trump thread ain't no thing 🤷🏾‍♀️

I dislike them, personally.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:47

Koalas March: May 21, 2007

drilldo squirt posted:

I dislike them, personally.

To each his own!

drilldo squirt posted:

Also I'm super excited about my agenda now.

I hope it includes punch and pie 🍹🍰

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:50

Prester Jane: Nov 4, 2008; by Hand Knit

drilldo squirt posted:

Also I'm super excited about my agenda now.

Copy-pasting responses to you to go discuss at the off-site isn't exactly the sort of activity that I get super excited about. But you do you.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:50

Koalas March: May 21, 2007

Prester Jane posted:

Copy-pasting responses to you to go discuss at the off-site isn't exactly the sort of activity that I get super excited about. But you do you.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:52

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Prester Jane posted:

Copy-pasting responses to you to go discuss at the off-site isn't exactly the sort of activity that I get super excited about. But you do you.

I can't make a gimmick out of this please think of something else.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:55

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Actually wait, hold on.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 04:56

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# ? May 24, 2024 15:57

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Koalas March posted:

I'm gonna go ahead and call you an idiot since byob only has 6 people right now but be prepared for this post to change.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 05:01

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