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Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Brainamp posted:

They still throw snowballs at you. :argh:

At least they respect you :v:

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Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

Veotax posted:

As someone who's never played WoW (other than like maybe upto level 25 or something years ago), could someone explain what Mythic+ does? I understand it has something to do with dungeons?

It's basically a harder version of a standard dungeon that has weekly rotating modifiers/mutators. Like enemies explode for group wide damage when they die, enemies that die buff enemies next to them making them stronger, trash has more hp and does more damage, poo poo like that. The rewards are higher item level gear and some artifact/azerite power and at the reset for the week you get a chest reward that if you do a high enough keystone is on par with the current end tier raid, so think 400 gear. The actual dungeons themselves would drop at like maybe 365/370 at the absolute most no matter how high your key is.

What WoW has though is titanforging in which every piece of gear can roll to a higher item level just completely loving randomly, so theoretically you could pull something a full 10-15 ilvls higher than the current hardest raid tier out of a 5 man dungeon through sheer luck. So what generally happens is that people will do the highest one required to max out the reward from the cache that you get at the start of the week, and then spam lower level keys that have the best rewards in comparison to the time and effort required to do it, and do those for the chance at getting a titanforged item that's potentially best in slot.

In practice it's a glorified slot machine you're forced to do so you can stay on the treadmill without the game violently making GBS threads on you. There's some people who try to go as high as possible in keys but they're an even smaller minority than people who do poo poo like Ultimates in FF14

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Bolow posted:

It's basically a harder version of a standard dungeon that has weekly rotating modifiers/mutators. Like enemies explode for group wide damage when they die, enemies that die buff enemies next to them making them stronger, trash has more hp and does more damage, poo poo like that. The rewards are higher item level gear and some artifact/azerite power and at the reset for the week you get a chest reward that if you do a high enough keystone is on par with the current end tier raid, so think 400 gear. The actual dungeons themselves would drop at like maybe 365/370 at the absolute most no matter how high your key is.

What WoW has though is titanforging in which every piece of gear can roll to a higher item level just completely loving randomly, so theoretically you could pull something a full 10-15 ilvls higher than the current hardest raid tier out of a 5 man dungeon through sheer luck. So what generally happens is that people will do the highest one required to max out the reward from the cache that you get at the start of the week, and then spam lower level keys that have the best rewards in comparison to the time and effort required to do it, and do those for the chance at getting a titanforged item that's potentially best in slot.

In practice it's a glorified slot machine you're forced to do so you can stay on the treadmill without the game violently making GBS threads on you. There's some people who try to go as high as possible in keys but they're an even smaller minority than people who do poo poo like Ultimates in FF14

I mean it sounds better than Diadem's random higher-than-everything-else weapons at least!

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

ImpAtom posted:

I mean it sounds better than Diadem's random higher-than-everything-else weapons at least!

It's about the same, although Diadem is probably marginally more tedious.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Yeah, the idea of Mythic+ dungeons is actually pretty good and it's maybe something that could suit FFXIV well. It's just that everything else about them is absolute poo poo in practice, but that's BFA for you. :v:

Drizvolta
Oct 31, 2011

Brainamp posted:

They still throw snowballs at you. :argh:

At least they probably removed the rocks inside now :v:

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!

Solo Wing Pixy posted:


did i mention


that it has


goddamn style?

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

ImpAtom posted:

... I mean, yes? There's a segment where I'm not healing.

There's a big difference between 'not healing' and 'not being able to heal.'

Namely because you can't just fob off the responsibility of keeping health bars up on someone else, everyone has to be responsible for their own health. Some people are rather bad at that (like some people are rather bad at DPS.) Also the last time an emote affected a status effect was way back in Lost City of Ampador and unlike the gremlins, sometimes Rath does not give you time to help someone get out of stun before he's hit and killed them again. This is the biggest issue I have with Rath: he's freakin' fast. He can and will sometimes decide to kill someone with two quick attacks and there's nothing you can really do about it thanks to the amount of damage he does and how quickly he can do it.

Also WHM's don't bring anything except their personal DPS, Benison and Esuna to the fight where SCH's and AST's have group shields to help 'heal' during the second half of the fight.

The only thing the Rath fight brings to the game that's 100% new is the 'you have to use megapotions to heal' bit. Everything else has been in the game beforehand. It is the combination of those factors, plus how fast Rath attacks that make Rath hard.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

I don't think they need to or can ripoff Mythic+ in its entirety, but as a system for reusing content in an engaging way its fantastic, and considering how many dungeons in FF14 are permanently buried in the content dumpster I think this game could really use something along those lines too. I'm sure they could figure out some kind of reward structure for it, gently caress just build that into the 5.0 relic progression, it'd be a whole lot better than Eureka.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

SpaceDrake posted:

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:

Red Mages must wear red. It is the law.

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

SpaceDrake posted:

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:

Ryanbomber
Sep 27, 2004

Bolow posted:

In practice it's a glorified slot machine you're forced to do so you can stay on the treadmill without the game violently making GBS threads on you.

I have bad news for you about literally everything in MMOs

Kobata
Oct 11, 2012

EponymousMrYar posted:

Also WHM's don't bring anything except their personal DPS, Benison and Esuna to the fight where SCH's and AST's have group shields to help 'heal' during the second half of the fight.

AST can't do anything to shield during 2nd phase (except a pre-shield during the transition). SCH has half of the same problem, that being that the shields are tied to healing done and the effect makes all healing 0, with, AFAIK, one exception being that for some reason the effect doesn't apply to healing the fairy so you can do a deployment to spread the shield.

Ironically the WHM one (Divine Benison) is the only healer shield that works with no qualifications in that phase, since it's a flat %maxhp. The tank's abilities (shake it off/veil/TBN) also continue to work for the same reason (they're maxhp-based not tied to any healing number)

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

SpaceDrake posted:

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:

slev
Apr 6, 2009

The dps check on o9s is pretty rough for a first floor and it is really highlighting how many people don't understand their rotation.

FortMan
Jan 10, 2012

Viva Romanesco!

SpaceDrake posted:

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:

Well, as long as it's stylish?

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

Ryanbomber posted:

I have bad news for you about literally everything in MMOs

There's a difference between trying to get a specific drop, and trying to get a specific drop and then hope it rolls a nat20 10 loving times in a row so it's actually useful. Titanforging is the latter.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

slev posted:

The dps check on o9s is pretty rough for a first floor and it is really highlighting how many people don't understand their rotation.

I'm assuming someone looked at O5S and thought it was too easy of an opening fight for a mid-tier Raid.

FortMan posted:

Well, as long as it's stylish?



That's reddish.

ActionZero
Jan 22, 2011

I act once more in
imitation of light

SpaceDrake posted:

That outfit isn't red at all. :mad:


Blue Mage confirmed.

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
I need to be the fastest spell caster, so wearing lots of red and snorting ground up Spell Speed materia is totally the correct way to go about it:

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010


Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

I'm assuming someone looked at O5S and thought it was too easy of an opening fight for a mid-tier Raid.


That's reddish.

I’ve killed god kefka for 16 weekly lockouts. I have no idea what doom train does anymore except that I remember it was always a shitshow every time my static die it.

Also rathalos is a gimmick precisely because it doesn’t really change the way you play. Having to run from the dragon and manage your own health is not as significantly different from the norm as ddr, and rath sucks because they split the difference between monster hunter and ffxiv and just made something poopy instead of having a full monhun phase in the middle of the fight. He’s also way more unforgiving than any ex primal I can think of off the top of my head, but I’m probably forgetting someone. Rath is a boring, tedious, unforgiving mess and that’s why it’s a gimmick instead of fun.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
HTH: Rathalos is gimmicky , but the people who die to Rathalos are the same people who died to the double-untankable dragons in Stone Vigil (Hard) and kept getting hit by the same untankable dragon in Nidex that resulted in failing the DPS check, and any variant of Coincounter, up to and including the first boss of Hell's Lid, ever.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 1, 2018

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
If Rathalos was a lil slower, I probably wouldn't mind the fact that he ignores aggro tables and is constantly running away from me. It's just super easy to watch someone get dunked on and be completely unable to stop it or save them. And I can't really bring myself to call them bad because he's not the most forgiving guy.

I managed to beat Vigil, Nidhogg, and the others if that's in question

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:

I’ve killed god kefka for 16 weekly lockouts. I have no idea what doom train does anymore except that I remember it was always a shitshow every time my static die it.

Also rathalos is a gimmick precisely because it doesn’t really change the way you play. Having to run from the dragon and manage your own health is not as significantly different from the norm as ddr, and rath sucks because they split the difference between monster hunter and ffxiv and just made something poopy instead of having a full monhun phase in the middle of the fight. He’s also way more unforgiving than any ex primal I can think of off the top of my head, but I’m probably forgetting someone. Rath is a boring, tedious, unforgiving mess and that’s why it’s a gimmick instead of fun.

I honestly feel like I played a different Rathalos from everyone else. Literally the only reason to fail it is if you forget to use your healing items. Any run I've done I use like 3-4 Mega Potions at most and you have so many excess that honestly you can not bring a healer into the fight and do fine. It is absolutely crazy forgiving unless you're Coincountering it and just ignoring enemy tells, getting slammed in the face, and repeating it over and over. Even then if you're a tank you can do that and basically not care and just use cooldowns and chug potions and still have an excess left over unless your party DPS is rock bottom. In the second phase it's pretty much common for anyone farming it to solo tank the fire-splosions as a tank because honestly they don't do that much damage.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I kinda like this Stormblood leveling gear I just got, or at least I like it more than the Shire gear I was wearing before. It also fits my character's aesthetic better.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Rathalos EX is mean and not my friend.

Especially when he's doing the poison swipe that stuns you. :argh:

brainwrinkle
Oct 18, 2009

What's going on in here?
Buglord
I healed O11N (holy poo poo that is hard) and one of the BLM just refused to res after a point. That really chaps my rear end.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
An easy way to tell how hard a fight will be is to follow this handy guide:

Is the boss a dragon or robot?

If no, you will probably be fine.

If yes, hold on to your rear end.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


O10S is probably the worst Savage fight I've done this entire expansion.

Apparently it's much more enjoyable if you're tank or healer, but as DPS it's really terrible and demands split-second execution from you based on an animation that's extremely easy to mistake because the animation isn't actually different, it's just rotated and tilted.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


brainwrinkle posted:

I healed O11N (holy poo poo that is hard) and one of the BLM just refused to res after a point. That really chaps my rear end.

O11N is a pub wrecker. Not insinuating anything about you in particular, but I've noticed that healers are almost always the failure point for O11N either through Blaster or Lar/Starboard.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

011N would basically never lose if not for the fact that Star/Larboard throws so many people off.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


Hobgoblin2099 posted:

An easy way to tell how hard a fight will be is to follow this handy guide:

Is the boss a dragon or robot?

If no, you will probably be fine.

If yes, hold on to your rear end.

Does Doomtrain count as a robot?

ImpAtom posted:

011N would basically never lose if not for the fact that Star/Larboard throws so many people off.

The best part of O11N is when people finally learn larboard / starboard, then MT stacks with the party and suddenly Omega is facing south for L/S and everybody loses their drat minds.

brainwrinkle
Oct 18, 2009

What's going on in here?
Buglord
Starboard/Larboard would be so much easier if it were 180 degrees and not ~200. Half of my failures were clips on the edge of it.

I know you’re supposed to stand in the middle of the boss ty

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

trying to get back in the game and unlocking Ridorana Lighthouse

Hancock has made a liar out of me

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Thundarr posted:

Does Doomtrain count as a robot?

Pugs die on Phantom Train (Savage) like crazy, so I'll say yes.

brainwrinkle posted:

Starboard/Larboard would be so much easier if it were 180 degrees and not ~200. Half of my failures were clips on the edge of it.

I know you’re supposed to stand in the middle of the boss ty

Why use Larboard anyway? The Temple of the Fist boss uses "Port and Star".

Nodosaur posted:

trying to get back in the game and unlocking Ridorana Lighthouse

Hancock has made a liar out of me

Hancock is the hero that saved us from Winequest 2.0.

Zwingley
Sep 20, 2011

"My dear Seth, you look absolutely dashing!"

Hair Elf
Anyone who has trouble with O11 should have just spent a couple years rowing. Clears everything right up. :smuggo:

In all seriousness using Larboard instead of Port is pretty deliberately obtuse and I'm really not a fan.

Really, though, as long as you can sort out the which side to be on the second shot (same side for the opposite move if you guessed wrong, opposite side if it's the same move and you guessed wrong) you should be fine on normal at least. It's not tuned tightly enough to wipe the raid with just one vuln stack, except the maybe the double tank buster in p3.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

I don't like Ramza anymore.

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010


Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

SKULL.GIF posted:

O10S is probably the worst Savage fight I've done this entire expansion.

Apparently it's much more enjoyable if you're tank or healer, but as DPS it's really terrible and demands split-second execution from you based on an animation that's extremely easy to mistake because the animation isn't actually different, it's just rotated and tilted.

It’s not, though. He tells you which set of abilities he’s going to use with the first spin or flip and then which specific one based on the second spin or flip. He’ll also do the first one a really long time before the second, so it’s not too difficult to be ready to dodge. It’s not like the options on the second tell will be in or X or something. It’s always plus or X and in or out.

Now, the new hot tail mechanic is bullshit because of how tight the timing can be on trading the shield and shenanigans with tether and shield passing, but that’s separate. It’s my least favorite fight so far, just for different reasons.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:

It’s not, though. He tells you which set of abilities he’s going to use with the first spin or flip and then which specific one based on the second spin or flip. He’ll also do the first one a really long time before the second, so it’s not too difficult to be ready to dodge. It’s not like the options on the second tell will be in or X or something. It’s always plus or X and in or out.

Now, the new hot tail mechanic is bullshit because of how tight the timing can be on trading the shield and shenanigans with tether and shield passing, but that’s separate. It’s my least favorite fight so far, just for different reasons.

Pretty much this. Making sure everybody is doing fireballs / Hot Tail exactly the same way is the hardest part of this fight because anybody stepping where they shouldn't is probably going to die and potentially kill everybody else along with them. And Middy is so drat huge that it can be hard to see where other people are to make sure you don't tag the wrong person.

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Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Nodosaur posted:

I don't like Ramza anymore.

Was he likable before? I genuinely can't remember a single point of the Raid where he wasn't an insufferable jerk.

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