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Even formerly ultra-charismatic Obama comes off like an absolute freak in his contemporary speeches. There is nobody in a leadership position at the Democratic Party who is capable of even a token display of empathy.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:15
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The Kingfish posted:They plainly could not give less of a poo poo about anyone but themselves and their donor buddies. Yeah this is obvious to anyone not bought into their brand.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:15
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Bernie is extremely not a Democrat.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:22
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joepinetree posted:So that measure can capture the fact that fewer democrats are voting with republicans on vote that come up, but can't tell apart a Sanders from a Chuck Schumer. Well yeah that's the horse poo poo I'm referring to. But I appreciate the break down. The Kingfish posted:Even formerly ultra-charismatic Obama comes off like an absolute freak in his contemporary speeches. There is nobody in a leadership position at the Democratic Party who is capable of even a token display of empathy. "Big money isn't the problem" says the politician who has made personal millions off of letting the very people he was supposed to regulate loot the country.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:28
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Oct 23, 2018 22:29
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The Kingfish posted:Even formerly ultra-charismatic Obama comes off like an absolute freak in his contemporary speeches. There is nobody in a leadership position at the Democratic Party who is capable of even a token display of empathy. After watching the latest Obama speech it was obvious how much he just doesn't get it. They are still playing the both sides game, attempting to win over the middle. There is no loving middle anymore guys. I think the old saying goes, "those who walk down the middle of the road end up as roadkill"
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Oct 23, 2018 22:30
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Nonsense posted:Bernie is extremely not a Democrat. The more I hear about this guy, the more I like him
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Oct 23, 2018 22:31
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:After watching the latest Obama speech it was obvious how much he just doesn't get it. They are still playing the both sides game, attempting to win over the middle. There is no loving middle anymore guys. I think the old saying goes, "those who walk down the middle of the road end up as roadkill" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhAJ2PL3_XY
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Oct 23, 2018 22:34
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The Kingfish posted:
Better things aren't possible. Shut up and vote for us or things will get worse.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:49
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Frightening Knight posted:
https://naomikritzer.com/2018/09/29/election-2018-attorney-general/ vvv ed: no problem, it's a long but pretty good breakdown of most everything Zero_Grade fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 22:50
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Zero_Grade posted:I assume you mean this one?: Yes! Someone in C-SPAM has already helped me find it but also thank you for taking the time to post it here for others. 
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Oct 23, 2018 22:52
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Usually after a President is done their terms you soften on them a bit, but post election Obama has kinda been a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:54
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https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1054855959401492480 Obama Promised Lobbyists Won't Run the White House https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdX5dSlLaYg
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Oct 23, 2018 23:58
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He did tell you you to hope for Change. He just wasn't specific about it being the number of zeros in his bank account.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:02
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Obama is real far from our worst prez but he's easily our most wasted and disappointing
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Oct 24, 2018 00:02
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sexpig by night posted:Obama is real far from our worst prez but he's easily our most wasted and disappointing I mean isn't it really bad to take the kind of opportunity he had - in hindsight, at an absolutely critical point in American history - and completely squander it? (don't get me wrong - the worst is still Reagan.)
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Oct 24, 2018 00:03
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sexpig by night posted:Obama is real far from our worst prez but he's easily our most wasted and disappointing He's still the best president of my lifetime, but agreed about the most disappointing.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:04
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:He's still the best president of my lifetime, but agreed about the most disappointing. Oh yea he's super easily the best in my lifetime too which is such a sad statement about the bar. "Well yea he completely sold out almost instantly and increased surveillance and war all around...but like...he didn't want gay people to die and he sometimes said maybe stop being racist and kinda half rear end tried to make healthcare not a complete ramjam process for most people?"
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Oct 24, 2018 00:06
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I would say bottom five worst presidents is something like Johnson/Jackson/Wilson/Nixon/Reagan, personally, but that's probably pretty debatable.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:28
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:He's still the best president of my lifetime, but agreed about the most disappointing. It's probably because he's the best that he's also the most disappointing. Trump and Bush, you didn't expect anything good from them to begin with, so you didn't have many ways they could disappoint you, and Clinton... Well, he took office when I was 1 or 2, so I can't really say much there. Disappointment is in large part due to the difference between expectations and reality, and even setting aside how much some people's expectations were built up by the great things he campaigned on, when he's the only one who you had positive expectations of to begin with... There's also the more "meta" disappointment when even the best we've had having been bad in a lot of ways. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 00:37
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Frightening Knight posted:I would say bottom five worst presidents is something like Johnson/Jackson/Wilson/Nixon/Reagan, personally, but that's probably pretty debatable. Buchanan
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Oct 24, 2018 01:17
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The Kingfish posted:Even formerly ultra-charismatic Obama comes off like an absolute freak in his contemporary speeches. There is nobody in a leadership position at the Democratic Party who is capable of even a token display of empathy. Splinter seems like they too were unimpressed by his Vegas soeech... https://splinternews.com/barack-obama-still-doesnt-get-it-1829934747
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Oct 24, 2018 01:19
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Office Pig posted:Buchanan I think a lot about this one and I sort of think Johnson and Buchanan should basically share a collective slot, but that's a little bit of a cop out.
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Oct 24, 2018 01:21
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I want sure where to post this to start a discussion, but I figured here would be a good start. https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1054254589426327553 Do studies like this undercut the push for a higher minimum wage? My biggest take away from this is you need to protect workers from the reduction in hours in some way, but I have no idea how that would work. Thoughts?
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Oct 24, 2018 01:25
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mean isn't it really bad to take the kind of opportunity he had - in hindsight, at an absolutely critical point in American history - and completely squander it? Nixon was worse. The man pioneered most of the stuff you hate about Reagan. GWB may get the slot in the long run though since his unique breed of corrupt incompetence combined with 9/11 may have been the deathblow to the whole empire. sexpig by night posted:Oh yea he's super easily the best in my lifetime too which is such a sad statement about the bar. The best in my lifetime may actually be Bush Sr. loving kill me...
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Oct 24, 2018 01:38
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I want sure where to post this to start a discussion, but I figured here would be a good start. I think it's that simply raising minimum wage isn't enough in and of itself. Seattle is still a land of haves and have-nots with a spiraling housing cost problem in a country with precisely zero real workers' rights, and part of a culture where you're expected to be exploited today in exchange for the vain hope to be the one doing the exploiting tomorrow. Fight for 15 is a start but that's all it is, because what we need is a sea change and those take a long time. We also need the olds to die off.
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Oct 24, 2018 01:39
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VH4Ever posted:Splinter seems like they too were unimpressed by his Vegas speech... Good article.
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Oct 24, 2018 01:52
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Roland Jones posted:It's probably because he's the best that he's also the most disappointing. Trump and Bush, you didn't expect anything good from them to begin with, so you didn't have many ways they could disappoint you, and Clinton... Well, he took office when I was 1 or 2, so I can't really say much there. Disappointment is in large part due to the difference between expectations and reality, and even setting aside how much some people's expectations were built up by the great things he campaigned on, when he's the only one who you had positive expectations of to begin with... He presented a lot like Obama did in '08. Young(er) than the usual political class, on late-nite shows, played the sax for the Arsenio Hall show, I didn't inhale wink wink nudge nudge, etc. A lot of what he did followed the cultural understanding of the time. Both sides took Reagan's "welfare queens" bullshit to heart and wanted someone to fix it, so he gave us the workfare we asked for. Everyone was worried about violence and hadn't realized yet that the peak had passed, so we got Tough on Crime. Homosexuality was still a bad thing to a massive percentage of the country so he gave us DADT, etc. "Social security is going to be insolvent" so he raised the eligibility age to 67. The poo poo he did was popular then in a way it's not now. Even Lewinsky was "ok" by the how people thought of consent at the time, the outrage was over adultery and decorum. Some excerpts from his '92 campaign brochure: quote:BILL CLINTON OFFERS AN ECONOMIC PLAN TO COMPETE AND PROSPER IN THE WORLD ECONOMY It just turns out that what the nation wanted and thought in the 90s was really lovely in retrospect. The people who didn't think that way were right, and that's why we look back on those ideas with disgust, but they were a fairly small bloc at the time and absolutely not given any media attention. Looking back Bill is a disappointment, but he wasn't seen as disappointing then. He did exactly what he said on the tin, and you can see the neoliberal poo poo there from the beginning. He delivered what he promised in a way Obama didn't, and at least one of the things he delivered was a 39% tax bracket on the wealthy that was promptly repealed by his successor. As an aside, the idiot consultants telling the witty and personable Al Gore to act like a suit with a stick up his rear end to be "serious", and to run away from one of the most popular presidents instead of building on that may have been worse campaign malpractice than having hillary ignore states they decided were "safe". readingatwork posted:The best in my lifetime may actually be Bush Sr. E: Not really a defense of Bill because leaders should lead towards better tomorrow, not be dragged along by the currents of popular sentiment. I just think it's best to put some context to what he was elected to do and why it was a thing at the time. Harik fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 02:01
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Frightening Knight posted:I would say bottom five worst presidents is something like Johnson/Jackson/Wilson/Nixon/Reagan, personally, but that's probably pretty debatable. For a moment I thought you meant LBJ and not Andrew Johnson and I was about to start posting my Opinions on presidents.
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Oct 24, 2018 02:02
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Not a Step posted:For a moment I thought you meant LBJ and not Andrew Johnson and I was about to start posting my Opinions on presidents. I originally specified Andrew Johnson to avoid exactly that lol.
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Oct 24, 2018 02:06
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Basta-mania is running wild! https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1054700025887051776?s=19
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Oct 24, 2018 02:20
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Until recently, I honestly thought that Avanetti “got it.” He was an obvious fraud, but he had the rhetoric down.
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Oct 24, 2018 02:27
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VH4Ever posted:I think it's that simply raising minimum wage isn't enough in and of itself. Seattle is still a land of haves and have-nots with a spiraling housing cost problem in a country with precisely zero real workers' rights, and part of a culture where you're expected to be exploited today in exchange for the vain hope to be the one doing the exploiting tomorrow. Fight for 15 is a start but that's all it is, because what we need is a sea change and those take a long time. We also need the olds to die off. So along with min wage, what do you pass to lessen the effects shown in the study? If 90% of the benefits of increased wages are offset by a reduction of hours, I don't see how raising the minimum by itself is good policy. It should be raised, but you also have to counteract the offsets. Incentives for not reducing hours, or something punitive seems like the wrong answer as well. Maybe a federally subsidized minimum salary. That way if your hours are dropped you can still survive. Maybe give that to everyone below 300% of the poverty line and call it the start of a UBI?
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Oct 24, 2018 02:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:So along with min wage, what do you pass to lessen the effects shown in the study? If 90% of the benefits of increased wages are offset by a reduction of hours, I don't see how raising the minimum by itself is good policy. It should be raised, but you also have to counteract the offsets. Honestly I think UBI might be the only solution in the end. I admit, I'm way better on this subject in pointing out the problem than proposing a solution but I do know that solutions that rely on companies to do the right thing on their own is doomed to fail. EDIT I guess to add to my earlier post I would say again that truly helping the lower income levels requires adjusting many levers to affect real change, and wages are only one of those levers. Housing costs are another for example, its own can of worms. Healthcare cost is another and etc. Plus capitalism sort of depends on an exploited class to work to some degree, right? VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 02:52
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I want sure where to post this to start a discussion, but I figured here would be a good start. no. not at all look at what he's pointing at as "not a ringing endorsement of minimum wage hikes". workers working less hours. more experienced workers making more money, but less experienced workers making the same for less work. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:So along with min wage, what do you pass to lessen the effects shown in the study? If 90% of the benefits of increased wages are offset by a reduction of hours, I don't see how raising the minimum by itself is good policy. It should be raised, but you also have to counteract the offsets. why are you worried about reduced hours? less hours worked means more hours for other things. Condiv fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 03:07
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:So along with min wage, what do you pass to lessen the effects shown in the study? If 90% of the benefits of increased wages are offset by a reduction of hours, I don't see how raising the minimum by itself is good policy. It should be raised, but you also have to counteract the offsets. https://www.epi.org/blog/six-reasons-not-to-put-too-much-weight-on-the-new-study-of-seattles-minimum-wage/ This discusses some issues with the study. Economics is the sort of field where you should take any studies with a huge grain of salt, at least until there's been a long time to support certain findings. Even real science frequently has problems with studies using poor methodology (if not doing things like outright lying), and it's even worse for something like economics.
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Oct 24, 2018 03:07
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Obama was a worse president than George W Bush. Because Obama watched George Bush and a largely sympathetic Washington establishment construct a giant machine that feeds on human lives and produces only hate and misery. Then he watched as the machine mained and killed millions in a maelstrom of abject failure. And his take away from all that was apparently that the corpse-tornado was not generating a large enough profit for the financial sector.
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Oct 24, 2018 03:14
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Ytlaya posted:https://www.epi.org/blog/six-reasons-not-to-put-too-much-weight-on-the-new-study-of-seattles-minimum-wage/ This discusses some issues with the study. and here's what i was trying to say, already written out for me in your article: quote:3. Although the study is not a reliable guide to the effects of the policy, if its findings are actually correct, all of the groups of incumbent workers analyzed by the authors were better off after the minimum wage increase.
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Oct 24, 2018 03:15
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Condiv posted:no. not at all The reduced hours is not inherently bad as long as it doesn't include a reduction in net pay. Even a 10% net increase after the offsets is still worth it. The ideal would be to maximize those increases and minimize the offsets. Ytlaya posted:https://www.epi.org/blog/six-reasons-not-to-put-too-much-weight-on-the-new-study-of-seattles-minimum-wage/ This discusses some issues with the study. Thank you for the link. I'll give it a read. Good point regarding methodology as well. I am not swayed against minimum wage increases even if the study is accurate. It is a good starting place to discuss how wage increases themselves are inadequate, but still a net positive.
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Oct 24, 2018 03:24
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The reduced hours is not inherently bad as long as it doesn't include a reduction in net pay. Even a 10% net increase after the offsets is still worth it. The ideal would be to maximize those increases and minimize the offsets. exactly. that's why it's so laughable that guy points at "less hours, about the same pay" and says that it's not a ringing endorsement. the study had more troubling results (which were debunked by ytlaya's article) like claiming new, low-wage hires were down, but he doesn't really highlight those in his tweet chain, while playing up the results in the study showing "min wage goes up = good". it doesn't speak well of his intelligence
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Oct 24, 2018 03:36
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