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how do I get back into the goon club on Excalibur? I used to be in but stopped playing for a long time.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:28
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A boss that casts benediction once guaranteed could be cool given at that point its just a fancy way to give the boss more health
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Oct 26, 2018 22:28
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cheetah7071 posted:A boss that casts benediction once guaranteed could be cool given at that point its just a fancy way to give the boss more health That's basically what the final boss of Lost City Hard does IIRC.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:31
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Kuribu's thing is Cure 4, which heals it based on if people aren't in the circles or are. So pretty easily preventable.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:44
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Brainamp posted:Kuribu's thing is Cure 4, which heals it based on if people aren't in the circles or are. So pretty easily preventable. What about the part where you zero its HP and then it gets back up, twice.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:46
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Eureka might be a pain in the rear end but they're never going to make something as painful as Absolute Virtue in XIV. At worst it'll be a slog that'll have a tribute to the original fight by restoring its health from 0 once as a reference.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:49
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homeless snail posted:Saying Absolute Virtue is gonna show up in Eureka is a really funny joke but, that's not gonna happen, no way. It's Castle Pandemonium in the center of the island, with a Warden in its deepest reaches.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:49
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kirbysuperstar posted:What about the part where you zero its HP and then it gets back up, twice. It also doesn't take you 30 hours to kill Kiribu.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:50
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kirbysuperstar posted:What about the part where you zero its HP and then it gets back up, twice. Well yeah, but it's also super quick to kill each time. Even if you do have kill it several times over.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:00
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Argas posted:Eureka might be a pain in the rear end but they're never going to make something as painful as Absolute Virtue in XIV. At worst it'll be a slog that'll have a tribute to the original fight by restoring its health from 0 once as a reference. you just guaranteed that they will you monster
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Oct 26, 2018 23:03
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UHD posted:you just guaranteed that they will I'm just making sure others enjoy Eureka as much as I do.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:04
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Brainamp posted:Well yeah, but it's also super quick to kill each time. Even if you do have kill it several times over. Yes, but the point of comparison was cheetah7071 posted:A boss that casts benediction once guaranteed could be cool given at that point its just a fancy way to give the boss more health ImpAtom posted:That's basically what the final boss of Lost City Hard does IIRC.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:07
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kirbysuperstar posted:What about the part where you zero its HP and then it gets back up, twice. you're thinking of bravely default, again
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Oct 26, 2018 23:09
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Kuribu also has like 1/3 the max hp of a typical boss is it's ilvl so getting back up twice is more of a flavor thing than actually padding the fight.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:11
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You could prevent AV using Benediction. But only from the second time onwards. If you twitch-reacted and used your own Benediction after the first time. The window was so tight most people resorted to third party tools to get it.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:15
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Absolute Virtue is the exact thing that I think all game devs as a rule should look at and then lean as hard away from as possible because it's extremely stupid and not in a cool way
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Oct 26, 2018 23:17
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:
While I'm sure there's some amount of happy accidents with stuff just happening to sync up in retrospect, yeah they've planned most major plot beats through I believe 6.X (it may have been 5.X though). Which is apparently the major conclusion to FFXIV's main plotlines so after that we'll probably to timetraveling or something.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:24
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cheetah7071 posted:A boss that casts benediction once guaranteed could be cool given at that point its just a fancy way to give the boss more health I was expecting Chaos to do this, tbh.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:29
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Countblanc posted:While I'm sure there's some amount of happy accidents with stuff just happening to sync up in retrospect, yeah they've planned most major plot beats through I believe 6.X (it may have been 5.X though). Which is apparently the major conclusion to FFXIV's main plotlines so after that we'll probably to timetraveling or something. Moon fight the Ascians or bust 
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Oct 26, 2018 23:36
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Monathin posted:Moon fight the Ascians or bust I want to visit the moon in 6.0 if only so we can finally get remixes of FFIV's Red Wings and Giant of Babil themes.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:42
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Vitamean posted:It's Castle Pandemonium in the center of the island, with a Warden in its deepest reaches.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:45
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how long's a motherfucker gotta wait to get some blitzball in this game
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Oct 26, 2018 23:47
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That'll be 5.0s big new feature.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:48
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ChaseSP posted:That'll be 5.0s big new feature. 5.0's relic will be entirely blitzball based.
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Oct 26, 2018 23:49
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Have to wait for the water expansion... wait... 
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Oct 26, 2018 23:50
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Thundarr posted:I never played FFXI and have only heard second hand stories about how bullshit AV was, but how were they only doing 1500 damage per hour prior to that? I did play FFXI and was indeed quite hooked into the endgame during the AV era so I actually know exactly the incident that screen is (likely) referring to. It actually was 30 hours but not continuous fighting. The way the endgame progression (a term I use incredibly loosely) culminated to spawn Absolute Virtue for an attempt was to kill another powerful enemy, Jailer of Love, which itself required spawning and killing a collection of lesser bosses in order to access it. JoL had a reputation as quite the unkillable boss itself for a long time before AV completely overshadowed it, due to an incredibly potent auto-regen that was enough to counteract the combined offensive power of an alliance of 18 players (which was the largest group you could do these fights with). A solution to that was eventually found by killing the add groups that JoL would periodically resummon to shut the regen off, but that was 20+ minutes of busywork before being able to even start killing JoL, a boss that took a good half hour by itself. Anyway, you do all that and kill JoL and suddenly Absolute Virtue spawns, hits your group with a meteor, and you all die. This isn't a punchline, that's literally what happened, or close enough. AV had instant AoE attacks, could summon adds at a whim, could charm your tank and then go murder your backline, so on, so forth. The sheer offensive power of AV ended most of the initial attempts almost as soon as they started and no one ever moved to "how do we kill this" because everyone stalled on "jesus christ how do we not die". Eventually there was one really good, potential kill attempt that took advantage of some pretty blatant targeting glitches that prevented AV from actually doing anything to players, which was the only way a group could even get close to it, let alone damage it. We're talking abusing cutscene triggers and terrain generation so that AV couldn't use any skills. Inevitably they screwed up, (AV having a potent regen as well, making damage very difficult to inflict) and it used benediction to heal to full and erase hours of work. The group that's making the attempt is getting super tired now, so many of them log off and go to bed, while others in the LS take over and continually aggro AV and get murdered, resetting it from passivity so that it doesn't despawn. Everyone wakes back up, tries to glitch out AV again. They manage, sort of, but not as effectively as before. It doesn't matter, because in short order AV found a target and when it started attacking once more it benedictioned again. That's what the screenshot is - the second one. Now people know it's a nearly impossible-to-damage superboss that shits out party-wiping damage and can heal to full whenever it wants. That was the beginning of the true legend. There was a way to stop the repeated benediction casts but it was so obscure and arbitrary that the secret was kept for half a decade and eventually the devs straight up told people what to do, years after AV was relevant
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Oct 26, 2018 23:52
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Yeah, and that's why they're not going to put AV in Eureka, cause its just embarrassing, and they probably don't want to draw the comparison between Eureka and one of the bosses that people were killing themselves irl trying to fight
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Oct 26, 2018 23:57
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Meiteron posted:snip i love this
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Oct 27, 2018 00:04
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homeless snail posted:Yeah, and that's why they're not going to put AV in Eureka, cause its just embarrassing, and they probably don't want to draw the comparison between Eureka and one of the bosses that people were killing themselves irl trying to fight Don't be ridiculous the AV attempt was very measured and reasonable, all told. The boss that people were killing themselves irl trying to fight was an entirely different FFXI superboss. Vitamean posted:It's Castle Pandemonium in the center of the island, with a Warden in its deepest reaches. E: I would respect them putting the Aern model in as the form of the final boss and calling it something else, which would be an appropriate reference while maybe not bringing back all the nightmares. They actually have the Aern skeleton in the game already - Kuribu, as mentioned above, uses it and a bunch of FFXI players recognized it's reraise animation when the dungeon was originally released. Meiteron fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 00:06
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i wasn't around for the AV era but like, i think it'd be really funny if they put it in. by "put it in" i mean "named a mob 'absolute virtue' and gave it a big self-heal and aoe damage just as a reference," not all that other insanity
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Oct 27, 2018 00:12
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apostateCourier posted:5.0's relic will be entirely blitzball based. Then I will have it within a week, and not even care about the relic.
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Oct 27, 2018 00:19
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Meiteron posted:I did play FFXI and was indeed quite hooked into the endgame during the AV era so I actually know exactly the incident that screen is (likely) referring to. I never did FFXI's endgame HNM raiding but I remember all of this. AV is legendary. If I recall, the secret to stopping AV's repeated use of special job abilities was for someone to use the same ability within a couple seconds of AV using it (so if AV uses Benediction, a White Mage on its hate list immediately uses Benediction in response and that locks the ability). And there were two parts to stop its crazy Regen: kill all of JoL's pets, and spam magical attacks corresponding to the current day (so on Earthday, have someone cast Stone spells on it). In hindsight, it was a pretty interesting concept for a megaboss. But there were absolutely no hints to guide players towards how to weaken the boss to make it killable.
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Oct 27, 2018 00:19
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DizzyBum posted:In hindsight, it was a pretty interesting concept for a megaboss. But there were absolutely no hints to guide players towards how to weaken the boss to make it killable. If there's an important lesson to learn from the FFXI era it's this and thankfully they learned it. Not just AV, but also the other superboss in the game, both had two critical problems - no responses to player action. They just did their poo poo, and if you did the right thing maybe their behavior would change but there was no obvious indication you were doing something right - or critically, doing something wrong. You had no way to know if you had actually sealed one of AV's 2hr abilities, you could only continue to fight and pray it wouldn't use it again after the first time. You didn't realize you had done the right thing to stop auto-regen until suddenly their hp bars stopped going up. Similarly, if you were doing something wrong the game wouldn't even let you know it was the wrong idea - things would just carry on until you died, this being the critical origin behind the epic played-for-18-hours-and-everyone-got-sick-irl thing that was Pandemonium Warden's famous kill attempt. Compare and contrast to literally every major fight in FFXIV - if there's a buff to remove from a boss, you can see the buff bar! If you've done a mechanic wrong you will at minimum get a vuln or damage down stack as the most obvious indicator possible that you didn't quite get the mechanic. Half the time you will take massive, lethal damage of a degree that shows obviously you've missed something important. They have hard enrage timers so you can't zombie your way through a fight when the fight is clearly lost. So at least they've learned a lot since then. I mean I imagine those players would have much rather they learned it back then and got 30 hours of their life back, but you can't have everything.
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Oct 27, 2018 00:32
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FFXI was a terrible game, and I'm glad that MMOs have moved on since. Do not @ me just because you have FFXI syndrome.
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Oct 27, 2018 00:56
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FactsAreUseless posted:FFXI was a terrible game, and I'm glad that MMOs have moved on since. Do not @ me just because you have FFXI syndrome. 
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Oct 27, 2018 01:01
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FactsAreUseless posted:FFXI was a terrible game, and I'm glad that MMOs have moved on since. Do not @ me just because you have FFXI syndrome.
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Oct 27, 2018 01:06
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Pagos doesn't even give you the escape of irl killing you after you spend 18 hours in there
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Oct 27, 2018 01:13
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Is there a guide for how to not be awful at Dark Knight at 70? Having a tough time here. 
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Oct 27, 2018 01:23
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Abyssal Drain more.
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Oct 27, 2018 01:25
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Zwingley posted:Is there a guide for how to not be awful at Dark Knight at 70? Having a tough time here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uYLWxWayYrliAmwJb8B7y0edm7LamvnGkPfjq2CcVYE/edit
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Oct 27, 2018 01:25
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