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Outrail posted:Real answer: A little bit of exploitation is inevitable and can be tolerated. Like owners earning a bit more than their workers. Exploitation to the point people are stuck in an endless cycle of poverty isn't fine. Like owners earning 100x what their indentured servants are paid. CEOs are currently making over 300x their workers, and that’s a conservative estimate
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Nov 4, 2018 19:06
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MonsieurChoc posted:What if, get this, the workers owned the means of production?
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Nov 4, 2018 19:08
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qkkl posted:Ok I came up with a reason why an employer would want to hire workers even if they had to be paid exactly the value they created. The situation would be where alone the employer could not produce any value, but with the combined efforts of workers some value could be produced, so if the employer was also one of the workers then they'd get some small value out of hiring workers. I think you've just re-invented Syndicalism.
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Nov 4, 2018 19:09
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jeff bezos produces hundreds of millions of dollars of value daily by his own two hands
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Nov 4, 2018 19:42
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got any sevens posted:yall keep takin the bait you have a lot more faith in people than I do
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Nov 4, 2018 19:44
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World War Mammories posted:you have a lot more faith in people than I do the rap sheet tells you what you need to know, it's pretty obviously bait
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Nov 4, 2018 19:49
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qkkl posted:I'd be more scared of someone who wants to kill than someone who doesn't want to share. Imagine what other things that person might want to kill for. Capitalism kills in huge numbers. Consider healthcare. Healthcare is insanely profitable due to high prices. High prices in healthcare prevents access to care. Low/no access to care kills people. Obamacare's inadequate so this problem continues. Look at these things: Article: New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage From: The Harvard Gazette Date: 2009 SEP 17 Article: Actually just a portfolio backtester Reminder: The S&P 500 is the gold standard for equities performance. $10k in 1985. Blue is VGHCX, Vanguard's healthcare fund.   VGHCX is hungry VGHCX must be appeased
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Nov 4, 2018 19:49
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Shear Modulus posted:jeff bezos produces hundreds of millions of dollars of value daily by his own two hands Magic fingers.
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Nov 4, 2018 19:49
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Shima Honnou posted:Amazon $15 update: they've been having the process assistants walk around basically begging people to accept voluntary unpaid time off [VTO] to leave shift early; they've offered me (a person in a critical role which means I usually rarely even get the offer) VTO more than once for the same shift before I get there which is unprecedented because usually it fills up instantly; we've been getting the packages done earlier because there's more people staying to work, but upper management is also kicking us out of the building earlier, since usually myself and some others will stick around and finish off some poo poo to make the late night shift's job easier in getting pallets of packages out faster, but tonight I was told we're all getting cleared out of there. Also, most telling, they fired a couple managers who were getting paid more than $15 so they could replace them with managers who - because $15 isn't a "minimum" remember, but rather a "this is exactly what everyone is paid now" - only make $15. I wish there was some other way to get rare (well, rare here) books easily other than Amazon. Although I'm ordering from third parties, Bezos still gets a cut.
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Nov 4, 2018 19:54
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bezos always gets his cut
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Nov 4, 2018 19:54
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MonsieurChoc posted:What if, get this, the workers owned the means of production?
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Nov 4, 2018 19:57
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Shear Modulus posted:jeff bezos produces hundreds of millions of dollars of value daily by his own two hands have the hands mounted and displayed in the public gallery
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Nov 4, 2018 19:59
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qkkl posted:What would the workers be doing if they weren't being exploited by capital? Any worker that doesn't work for themselves is going to be exploited by their employer, because otherwise there would be no point in hiring people if you have to pay them exactly the value that they produce. They would be using the means of production to create the things that they and their comrades need and want, OP.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:11
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Crazycryodude posted:Jeff Bezos has hoarded the wealth equivalent to the GDP of a medium-sized country, not the savings of a small town lol GDP is a rate, savings is a volume, wealth is also a volume no one understands units Modest Mao has issued a correction as of 20:46 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 20:44
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Look at this fuckin nerd
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Nov 4, 2018 20:47
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Modest Mao posted:GDP is a rate, savings is a volume, wealth is also a volume The comparison can still be made & is illuminating.
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Nov 4, 2018 22:50
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mycomancy posted:Easy, the person who has hoarded resources that equal a small town's population's savings, that's who's evil. He has a major city's population's savings
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Nov 4, 2018 23:03
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Larry Parrish posted:He has a major city's population's savings Seems like he has way more than that.
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Nov 4, 2018 23:11
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Lambert posted:Seems like he has way more than that. its actually still less than, like, new york or los angeles. but deffo comparable to like, phoenix or san diego
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Nov 4, 2018 23:22
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According to Credit Suisse's "world wealth report", the median personal wealth in the US is $59,876, Bezos is worth $137.6 billion, or as much as 2,298,083 americans. The world median is $3,582, so Bezos is worth as much as 38,414,293 people globally. So, serial killers, take note. Killing 1 rich person is better than killing 2 million joggers in the park.
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Nov 4, 2018 23:26
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what’s even better is Bezos jr will split his time between “managing the Bezos Foundation” and loving Instagram models on his space yacht while rotating ceos continue to make the lives of thousands of workers terrible to make money for shareholders of Amazon
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Nov 4, 2018 23:26
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Bezos had several cities lining up to suck his dick, and then they argued over who was willing to degrade themselves more for him. His power goes well beyond his wealth.
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Nov 4, 2018 23:55
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Here's what some of them offered: Atlanta: Atlanta's mayor, Kasim Reed, said the city would offer incentives and development that would be worth more than $1 billion. In Stonecrest, a Georgia city about 20 miles east of Atlanta, the mayor offered to rename it "Amazon" and instate Jeff Bezos as the permanent mayor. Boston: The city proposed an "Amazon Task Force" in its 109-page bid. It would essentially entail paid city staffers whose sole purpose is to represent Amazon's interests to Boston's government. Columbus, Ohio: The Midwestern city offered Amazon tax breaks for 15 years, including 100 percent property tax abatement, and a 35 percent income tax refund. These offers would save Amazon millions in taxes for more than a decade. Newark, New Jersey: This is the big one. Newark is offering Amazon $7 billion in tax incentives, the largest one among all 238 cities that made a bid.
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Nov 5, 2018 00:02
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We got no money to spend on the citizens, but here's a billion dollar handjob to Bezos for the mere potential of adding a few thousand jobs.
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Nov 5, 2018 00:17
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Woof Blitzer posted:We got no money to spend on the citizens, but here's a billion dollar handjob to Bezos for the mere potential of adding a few thousand jobs. We don't need public schools
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Nov 5, 2018 00:26
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is pepsi ok posted:Here's what some of them offered: And it's probably giving up all the stacks of cash to get its claws into DC.
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Nov 5, 2018 00:34
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Woof Blitzer posted:We got no money to spend on the citizens, but here's a billion dollar handjob to Bezos for the mere potential of adding a few thousand wage slave jobs. Edited for accuracy.
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Nov 5, 2018 00:35
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pushpins posted:what’s even better is Bezos jr will split his time between “managing the Bezos Foundation” and loving Instagram models on his space yacht while rotating ceos continue to make the lives of thousands of workers terrible to make money for shareholders of Amazon Thanks to capitalism, he will at best be the leader of a desert biker gang.
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Nov 5, 2018 00:40
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Has anyone interviewed Besos and asked him 'you know your employees are wallowing in poverty, right? Why don't you give them some of the money they earnt for you?'
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Nov 5, 2018 00:54
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Outrail posted:Has anyone interviewed Besos and asked him 'you know your employees are wallowing in poverty, right? Why don't you give them some of the money they earnt for you?' CEOs always cop out with some bullshit about all that money isn't actually theirs, it belongs to the shareholders, yada yada, you can't pay the employees in credit.
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Nov 5, 2018 01:00
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Wasabi the J posted:CEOs always cop out with some bullshit about all that money isn't actually theirs, it belongs to the shareholders, yada yada, you can't pay the employees in credit. So despite looking good on paper all they really have to offer the masses is calories?
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Nov 5, 2018 01:26
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Modest Mao posted:GDP is a rate, savings is a volume, wealth is also a volume You’re like that guy that argues that BTU is a unit of energy, not power. When used a unit of power or wealth, the period is understood to be on hour for BTU, one year for GDP.
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Nov 5, 2018 01:58
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Outrail posted:So despite looking good on paper all they really have to offer the masses is calories? Especially funny when their policies or business practices lead to more hunger.
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Nov 5, 2018 02:00
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The funny part is just giving away that money to citizens would be mroe cost-effective.
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Nov 5, 2018 02:06
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MonsieurChoc posted:The funny part is just giving away that money to citizens would be mroe cost-effective. Yeah, but if you give everybody $100, my $100,000,000,000 is worth less
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Nov 5, 2018 02:27
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Nov 5, 2018 03:41
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is pepsi ok posted:Here's what some of them offered: Didn't Chicago offer to route the income tax of all amazon employees to Amazon?
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Nov 5, 2018 04:26
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this would be de facto polygamy, you'd be married to the spouse and the store
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Nov 5, 2018 05:00
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got any sevens posted:this would be de facto polygamy, you'd be married to the spouse and the store Most people are already married to like 5 or 6 different creditors already.
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Nov 5, 2018 05:07
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MonsieurChoc posted:The funny part is just giving away that money to citizens would be mroe cost-effective. it would still be unfair though, since wealth would still be extracted from the workers, but now it is given to many people instead of a few.
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Nov 5, 2018 05:12
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