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Yeah, let's drop a platform to save lives because hillbillies cry whenever someone wants to take away their militia or "shooting a black guy who breaks in to steal a TV" fantasies. That way I can make more phone calls to all my loved ones again to make sure they're ok when another Las Vegas shooting happens.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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GreyjoyBastard posted:you keep stating this as a fact I mean even if we change it to 2060 we're still staring down the barrel of mass displacement and trillions of dollars of damages, and that's on top of increased severity of weather. Global warming is here, we need to start doing something about it roughly 30 years ago, not sit around pissing in the wind deciding exactly what level of incremental progress is acceptable.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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Lol at the concept of reaching rural voters with anything, white dudes in general broke like 80% for Cruz even given the option of a decent economic justice platform. How do you reach voters who are opposed to everything you stand for without alienating the people who turnout consistently to vote for left-wing candidates?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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If we toom the leftist position to arm the poor and people of color with public money you'll get the chuds on board with gun control just saying
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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Phi230 posted:This is wildly politically illiterate. You are suggesting liberals and leftists are on the same team despite holding mutually exclusive ideology. We may be forced into the same party because of a dysfunctional political system but that is where similarities end. Left wing politics do have a definition and they ard not liberal politics. The only way you can ever call them "left" is relative to the fascist GOP and that is not exactly a high bar Except these definitions haven't been used in the US with any consistency prior to the last election. 90% of this country still gets confused by "I hate liberals because I'm a leftist," because we've used those words to mean the same thing for like 100 years.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:02
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Lightning Knight posted:That's true, but this isn't some academic thing. Like gun violence is a real, material issue to thousands of Americans every year and disproportionately affects low income people and especially people of color. If anything the excessive focus on mass shootings (i.e. gun violence that affects whiter, more affluent Americans) has obscured this reality (not that there should be mass shootings or that we shouldn't get rid of assault rifles). Admittedly, there is a point where "political capital" is pointless unless you are willing to use it. I think there would be an obvious cost, but it is at least something that would have some good.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:02
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Willa Rogers posted:You know what would be the quickest way to a Dem-led Senate? Dem candidates coming out forcefully for a policy supported by up to 60 percent of Republican voters and up to 85 percent of Dem voters. edit: which is not to say that the Dems should be stronger on M4A- they 100% should- but it's not going to singularly make up giant deficits statewide in Missouri and Indiana
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Nov 8, 2018 00:02
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By the by I went to bed before it happened so I just want to say how happy I am that Scott Walker got his rear end beat last night. That was awesome to wake up to after most of the other high profile long shot disappointments.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:We won the popular vote by 7 percent last night. Would it be enough to win the electoral college? That depends on which states that popular vote is in. You win the electoral college by winning states. It doesn't matter whether you win California by seven votes or seven million votes - you get the same number of EVs either way.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:03
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Adar posted:this is your depression talking btw, american society isn't collapsing by 2040 America is too large a country to make assumptions about a generalized collapse of the state, but the 2C+ world we're looking at by 2040 isn't compatible with the worldwide logistics chain that makes modern society possible. At the very least you're going to have states like Florida that will be a total write off, with ensuing mass migrations pushing to the limit the economies and infrastructures of nearby regions already stretched thin by a permanent global recession.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:03
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Lol at the concept of reaching rural voters with anything, white dudes in general broke like 80% for Cruz even given the option of a decent economic justice platform.  You don't. The name of the game is gathering as many of the disaffected nonvoters as you can by appealing to their economic and material circumstances directly. The "who can hungry hungry hippo the most middle class people" approach to politics is a guaranteed loser for Democrats moving forward and attempting to earnestly address the economic injustice in the United States of America just might be crazy enough to work.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:04
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Phi230 posted:If we toom the leftist position to arm the poor and people of color with public money you'll get the chuds on board with gun control just saying Do you happen to have a newsletter I can subscribe to? Look, I've seen like 9 Lucy football posts in this thread so if we can go to that old well I can do the subscribe to your newsletter thing OK.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:04
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AG Gorka.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:04
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ShutteredIn posted:This isn't even remotely illegal, in fact it's Georgia law. How on Earth is it just legal to public ally post voter records like that?
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Nov 8, 2018 00:05
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For all the talk about rural flight causing an undemocratic Senate doesn't it also turn rural states bluer? I mean if there's less people living in rural areas that means the urban areas get a larger percentage of the population. Then you need to take into account not everyone is fleeing to New York, many people are leaving to local cities.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:05
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Jarmak posted:For all the talk about rural flight causing an undemocratic Senate doesn't it also turn rural states bluer? I mean if there's less people living in rural areas that means the urban areas get a larger percentage of the population. Then you need to take into account not everyone is fleeing to New York, many people are leaving to local cities. There are lots of nice, legal ways to ensure that things don't balance out that way.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:07
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Squalid posted:There is no strict definition of leftist. Left or right is simply the team we are on. Their boundaries are defined on the fly based on circumstance and necessity as much as ideals. In the future their meaning will be different. Who is or isn't on the team is more a matter of convenience than anything else. Well, traditionally "The Left" and "Leftists" meant more than being on the left of center, it meant support for socialism, communism or other similar ideologies. There is a broader meaning as well, the "left of center" one but either way there is much more to it than just team identity. Few people would consider Manchin a leftist even though his team is currently the left of center team. Ideology is a critical conceptual component of leftism, particularly all branches of leftist thought reject the "end of history" thesis that our current liberal democratic republic government combined with (lightly) regulated markets is the best and the final form of social order.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:07
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Are they recounting florida?
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Nov 8, 2018 00:07
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Willa Rogers posted:You know what would be the quickest way to a Dem-led Senate? Dem candidates coming out forcefully for a policy supported by up to 60 percent of Republican voters and up to 85 percent of Dem voters. 
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Nov 8, 2018 00:08
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean even if we change it to 2060 we're still staring down the barrel of mass displacement and trillions of dollars of damages, and that's on top of increased severity of weather. maybe (on the displacement and the trillions), but 'the east coast will be underwater' is a stupid way to phrase it it's also short and punchy, so maybe it'll see some productive use but we're not going to see Manhattan vanish beneath the rolling waves by 2040 (unless antarctica collapses into the rolling waves, but I covered that with sudden wackiness) it's gonna be poo poo like Harvey and Maria and Florence and Michael exceeding tolerances, and contamination of groundwater, and all the various really interesting horrible localized things that happen half-decade by half-decade
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Nov 8, 2018 00:08
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, we need to abandon the thing with 97% support according to polls, and the thing that has motivated a gigantic number of youth voters, because you really like the idea of playing revolutionary and want to pretend you're going to fight off a tank. Nope. That's just your dumb projection, and has nothing to do with what I wrote. Notice how everyone ignored "at the national level." States can absolutely and SHOULD pursue gun legislation. The fight needs to be won in at least a plurality of the states before it is brought back to the national level. It's a national disgrace that we are where we are, but I don't think making it one of the largest national priority is the right move if you also want M4A, and the host of other really important issues. In fact it is the one issue that is better handled at the state level, where all the others can't be effectively fought at the state level.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:08
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Google Butt posted:Are they recounting florida? Nelson definitely is, not sure about Gillum but that's the direction things are going. GreyjoyBastard posted:maybe (on the displacement and the trillions), but 'the east coast will be underwater' is a stupid way to phrase it You can be pedantic about exactly what level of Roland Emmerich will occur, nerd. The point is that Things are hosed. 
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Nov 8, 2018 00:09
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https://twitter.com/SallyQYates/status/1060305721399656450
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Nov 8, 2018 00:09
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Groovelord Neato posted:gun control is far more popular than most people think it is. Most individual elements of gun control policy are more popular than people think, but when it's framed as a national political issue, gun control becomes a third rail.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:10
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1060288040512512000
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Nov 8, 2018 00:10
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Don’t dare hope But https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1060305913238773761
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Nov 8, 2018 00:11
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Phi230 posted:This is wildly politically illiterate. You are suggesting liberals and leftists are on the same team despite holding mutually exclusive ideology. We may be forced into the same party because of a dysfunctional political system but that is where similarities end. Left wing politics do have a definition and they ard not liberal politics. The only way you can ever call them "left" is relative to the fascist GOP and that is not exactly a high bar High ideological bars are not typical of American political parties.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:11
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Lightning Knight posted:I wouldn't be so confident declaring this considering most of the East Coast will be underwater by 2040 my dude. There is a larger point here, too. We already are not addressing Climate Change quick enough and if the Senate is key to a functioning Government, and will be under Republican control another election, then we are well and truly hosed barring some massive technological innovation. 2040 won't just have the East Coast underwater, we're looking at increasingly awful catastrophes that may not cause civilization to collapse but will definitely be seized on by the right wing to ramp up the fascism. I think the long game is favoring the left but we unfortunately do not have a lot of time.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:12
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Lightning Knight posted:Nelson definitely is, not sure about Gillum but that's the direction things are going. drat straight i can
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Nov 8, 2018 00:12
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Rich Uncle Chet posted:How on Earth is it just legal to public ally post voter records like that? It feels pretty slimy but WA posts up-to-date csvs with voter name, age, gender, address, and whether or not they've voted yet every day during election season. Some states just do that. I dunno why.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:13
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Don’t dare hope Voter suppression and cooking the books is easier when everyone has stopped paying attention. I bet that’s what they’ll do.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:14
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ShutteredIn posted:This isn't even remotely illegal, in fact it's Georgia law. this sounds worryingly plausible but it'd be neat if you could cite it for us weirdos
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Nov 8, 2018 00:14
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Strange Poon posted:I think the long game is favoring the left but we unfortunately do not have a lot of time. This is exactly the problem. If we could just wait out the right we would win by default eventually but we are out of time. Global warming is here. GreyjoyBastard posted:drat straight i can 
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Nov 8, 2018 00:14
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Pollyanna posted:Voter suppression and cooking the books is easier when everyone has stopped paying attention. I bet that’s what they’ll do. They’ll be done counting them by tomorrow night I believe.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:15
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Lightning Knight posted:This is exactly the problem. If we could just wait out the right we would win by default eventually but we are out of time. Global warming is here. i'm actually surprised the dems are as muted as they are about climate change
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Nov 8, 2018 00:16
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Yeah releasing voter information is pretty common. In some states they make you pay or visit a stupid office to go get the data, basically just hoops to make it harder for community activists to use the data while easier for entrenched campaigns who know where to look.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:16
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Can populated blue states start incentivizing moving to blood red states? If California give a democrat voter 10K to move to a red state in a red district, it could move some needles. It sounds really dumb, but this self sorting that the democrats have done is a huge problem. You either win the rural vote by appealing to existing rural voters, or you make new rural voters.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:16
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Condiv posted:i'm actually surprised the dems are as muted as they are about climate change There was some noise about symbolic bills being drafted in the House but yeah tbh it's all anybody should be talking about. They should be screaming the IPCC report from the rooftops.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:18
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Smart of her to start harvesting national email addresses in advance of a presidential run.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:19
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I'm sort of baffled by the flow of this conversation. As far as I can tell, it went: "We know Dems are popular nationally, but our lovely constitution requires them to pick up some rural states. So how do we do that?" "Well, the hard part is that rural voters are strongly against some part of the Dem platform, like gun control" "Uh, excuse me, gun control is popular nationally!" Like... the fact that something is broadly popular doesn't have any bearing on the specific discussion, which is what the gently caress we do about rural voters and rural states. If the only metric that mattered was 'nationally popular', President Hillary Clinton would be enjoying her Democratic-majority Congress. The central problem is that the very issues that are nationally popular are unpopular in enough of the specific areas that Dems need to win. In anything resembling a well-structured democracy, we wouldn't have this conversation, because popular things would win, and the Dems are generally the party of popular things. Unfortunately, we don't live in one, so what are the options? One angle would say that rural folk just really want to be inspired by economic populism, and if you do that, they'll totally abandon their deeply ingrained culture of guns and racism, a position that would've felt naive in 2015, much less now. Another angle, disproven yesterday, is that you can run centrist Dems who talk like Republicans and they'll win, which it turns out is a losing strategy for literally everyone except Joe Manchin and his monkey's paw. From where I'm sitting, the only really viable way to wholesale win red state Senate seats is a hybrid approach that has Dems who campaign hard to the left on economic issues (which the likes of Donnelly, McCaskill and Heidkampt very much did not) while staking out centrist policies on social issues. I think the reasonable model of a 2018+ Dem Senator is a a guy who's pro-M4A, pro-taxing the rich, anti-gun-control, pro-life, and just sorta evades the topic of immigration. I don't love that guy personally, but I also think he'll reliably vote on things like Puerto Rico/DC statehood, voter rights, and gerrymandering, which really are the absolute vital issues a 2020 Senate will face.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:19
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