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Stexils posted:it's not third party voters fault that trump won and getting mad at them rather than anyone who bears far more responsibility makes it look like you're just looking for an easy target to vent at. Hey guy, I never said they get all my rage, but that's the specific example that was brought up, so that's what got my response.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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Fire Above posted:We'll let's hope that a super divisive candidate doesn't come out of the primaries in 2020. Jay Inslee 2020  https://www.ft.com/content/0eb23c80-639e-11e8-90c2-9563a0613e56
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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evilweasel posted:people who chose not to vote against trump chose to make it more likely that trump would win. they're not the only people who helped him win, but they are part of the group of people who helped him win. they're like 5th in line behind more responsible parties.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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Horseshoe theory posted:The same Joe Manchin that votes/spews in lockstep with Trump's policy? You should vote for Joe Manchin over any Trumpist or over Trump himself. This isn't a hard call...
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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WampaLord posted:Because to get ideas accepted by the public you have to start talking about them way before you're ready to implement them. We are talking about them, but why does she have to pin down the details? When the time comes for a bill I don't think it matters at all whether she was for UBI or a jobs guarantee now in 2018. I assume the next shot dems take if they ever have a super majority is gonna be health care again first so I really think you are overestimating how much juice we can get out of debating these policies.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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this is a good own https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1061293561059201024
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Nov 10, 2018 17:35
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/HarleyRouda/status/1061279636783489026 Dang, I was feeling sorta ambivalent about my State's performance after we failed on several important ballot measures, but if we keep flipping close congressional seats, I might have to forgive my dumb neoliberal homeland.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:36
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Crow Jane posted:I feel like voting for Trump to send a message to the DNC is functionally the same as "pretending" to be racist to get out of jury duty. Even if you were doing it ironically, that stink's still on you forever. I just say "I believe in jury nullification" and they dismiss me.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:36
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Stexils posted:they're like 5th in line behind more responsible parties. sure, as long as we're clear they're in the line. it's not like discussing them, when we just had an idiot going "durr i would actually vote for trump to protest the dnc because voting third party isn't enough" is because they're The Most Important Reason He Won. it's because the subject came up randomly.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:36
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Horseshoe theory posted:The same Joe Manchin that votes/spews in lockstep with Trump's policy? Chomskyan posted:Which is why you're part of the problem It's just an example gang, he'd never get the nom, but you think any neo-con/liberal would be just as bad as a literal loving fascist? Look, I want M4A, and to close the income gap as much as the next goon, but ~lets not oppose fascism because this candidate doesn't support it~ is a bad take.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:37
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The only reason you all are talking past each other is that the real, nastier discussion isn't palatable: how do you take control of the DNC within two years and remove these idiots so they DON'T try to foist poo poo off on us?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:38
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Chilichimp posted:I'd like to say Democrats learned their lesson, but I have slowly lost all faith in people doing the correct thing over the last decade. Who's even controversial in the Democratic Party these days though? I suppose the definition of controversial is important here.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:38
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motoh posted:The only reason you all are talking past each other is that the real, nastier discussion isn't palatable: how do you take control of the DNC within two years and remove these idiots so they DON'T try to foist poo poo off on us? The 2020 presidential nominee automatically gets control of the DNC. So support the primary candidate you think should win the nomination, and you'll control the DNC.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:39
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plogo posted:We are talking about them, but why does she have to pin down the details? When the time comes for a bill I don't think it matters at all whether she was for UBI or a jobs guarantee now in 2018. It's not about "juice" it's about shifting the Overton Window. Before people were talking about Medicare For All, the only possibly option for expanding healthcare was fixing the ACA, now suddenly M4A is in the conversation. This is how you get UBI into the national conversation, you have politicians talk about it. Then normal people, not political nerds like us who follow all this poo poo on a daily basis, can go "Oh hey I heard about this UBI thing in the news, sounds neat!" and that's how you shift opinion on things.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:39
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If George W. Bush is running against Donald Trump as a Democrat I will vote for him. Why? Because I'm just that principled.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:39
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Chilichimp posted:They can do that, but that makes them loving morons. I'm sorry if you disagree and are happy with fascist Trumpland, but I'm not. They could nominate the most insanely insufferable neo-con liberal shithead in the universe... (uh... Joe Manchin, I guess) for President and I' happily pull that lever. And this is why nothing ever changes
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Nov 10, 2018 17:39
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mcmagic posted:You should vote for Joe Manchin over any Trumpist or over Trump himself. This isn't a hard call... when ya got McMagic in here sayin' this, you know you've hosed up.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:40
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Party Plane Jones posted:all right I'm going to say several things: In case you missed it (i'll post it in the third post op i guess)
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Nov 10, 2018 17:40
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:And this is why nothing ever changes primary elections exist. go vote in them. if "democrats" nominate someone you don't like, it's because there was a very contested primary election and more people supported the other person.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:https://twitter.com/colvinj/status/1061224188273483777 It's not even a take, and I know its trite, but I really do enjoy thinking about how apoplectic Fox would be if the bisexual Kenyan socialist Hussein Obummer did this kind of poo poo. We would be hearing about it a decade later
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Nov 10, 2018 17:41
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evilweasel posted:primary elections exist. go vote in them. if "democrats" nominate someone you don't like, it's because there was a very contested primary election and more people supported the other person. The party is undeniably moving to the left. Someone like Manchin could NEVER win the nomination in 2020.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:42
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In the scenario where Manchin somehow gets the nomination in 2020 we are hosed either way so the thought experiment of how far you would vote against Trump is pretty moot.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:42
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Donnie can't work umbrellas, of course he's not going out in the rain. Just imagine what that hair would look like wet
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Nov 10, 2018 17:42
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Zwabu posted:Who's even controversial in the Democratic Party these days though? I suppose the definition of controversial is important here. It's hard to say because not that many people in the Democratic Party have really gotten much mainstream exposure over the last decade. Most candidates' flaws won't be remembered until they're actually on the campaign trail. For example, Gropey Joe is gonna plummet in the polls once he gets out in front of people's faces and can't coast entirely on name recognition from being Obama's VP. Warren certainly stumbled at the starting line, but I think it'll largely be forgotten as long as she never ever brings it up again.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:43
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I'm going to guess it has nothing to do with the weather. Trump is already probably out of sorts because of the election, and Macron Kung Fu Gripping him at the handshake (or something else between them) pissed off Trump even more so he's probably just going to sulk in his hotel room and watch Fox News.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:43
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motoh posted:The only reason you all are talking past each other is that the real, nastier discussion isn't palatable: how do you take control of the DNC within two years and remove these idiots so they DON'T try to foist poo poo off on us? Can't be done in two years. You just vote hard in the primaries for the least lovely ones, try to get other to do the same, then repeat over and someone gets the message. And every once in a while an AOC beats a Crowley and you keep going until slowly poo poo gets where it needs to be.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:43
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mcmagic posted:The party is undeniably moving to the left. Someone like Manchin could NEVER win the nomination in 2020. yeah and nobody in his mold is gonna try. the person closest to the center that has any sort of chance is Biden, and everyone else that has any chance is to the left of him.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:43
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motoh posted:The only reason you all are talking past each other is that the real, nastier discussion isn't palatable: how do you take control of the DNC within two years and remove these idiots so they DON'T try to foist poo poo off on us? I dunno, how would you suggest?  probably should have started working on it before now, and hopefully some people did show up with all your friends to the boring as gently caress local and state party and committee meetings and elect yourselves to party positions
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Nov 10, 2018 17:43
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evilweasel posted:primary elections exist. go vote in them. if "democrats" nominate someone you don't like, it's because there was a very contested primary election and more people supported the other person. Seriously. If the candidate you wanted loses, you should be able to be an adult and vote for the candidate that will be most likely to advance your interests and not act like a child and take your ball and go home.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:44
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Zwabu posted:Who's even controversial in the Democratic Party these days though? I suppose the definition of controversial is important here. hillary clinton 
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Nov 10, 2018 17:44
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evilweasel posted:The 2020 presidential nominee automatically gets control of the DNC. So support the primary candidate you think should win the nomination, and you'll control the DNC. this too
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Nov 10, 2018 17:44
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eke out posted:this is a good own Unfortunately both of these people are shitters and their shittiness is paving the way for resurgent fascist parties in both of their countries.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:44
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CubanMissile posted:Can't be done in two years. You just vote hard in the primaries for the least lovely ones, try to get other to do the same, then repeat over and someone gets the message. And every once in a while an AOC beats a Crowley and you keep going until slowly poo poo gets where it needs to be. no literally you are voting for who controls the DNC when you vote for the 2020 presidential nominee. as soon as a nominee has won, control of the DNC is turned over to them. the people will have selected who should be in charge of the DNC by about june, 2020.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:44
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Zwabu posted:I'm going to guess it has nothing to do with the weather. Trump is already probably out of sorts because of the election, and Macron Kung Fu Gripping him at the handshake (or something else between them) pissed off Trump even more so he's probably just going to sulk in his hotel room and watch Fox News. It just occurred to me that between this trip and the rally-orama the last few weeks, he hasn't been able to golf in ages
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Nov 10, 2018 17:45
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motoh posted:The only reason you all are talking past each other is that the real, nastier discussion isn't palatable: how do you take control of the DNC within two years and remove these idiots so they DON'T try to foist poo poo off on us? True. But are we even on agreement that this is the action we should take? I think the Democratic Party should be seized by the left, but does the "other side", which constantly whines about "SchumerBad PelosiBad" chat agree? My impression is no
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Nov 10, 2018 17:45
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WampaLord posted:It's not about "juice" it's about shifting the Overton Window. Before people were talking about Medicare For All, the only possibly option for expanding healthcare was fixing the ACA, now suddenly M4A is in the conversation. No it wasn't. There were always many dem proposals to healthcare going back to the days of ted kennedy fighting with jimmy carter.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:46
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Chomskyan posted:True. But are we even on agreement that this is the action we should take? I think the Democratic Party should be seized by the left, but does the "other side", which constantly whines about "SchumerBad PelosiBad" chat agree? My impression is no the "other side" agrees that if you win the primary, you get the nomination. so if you want to "seize it", get the votes! if you support someone more leftist than the person I supported in the 2020 primary, and they win, i'll be voting for them!
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Nov 10, 2018 17:46
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according to the timeline I found in some Florida newspaper we should be getting the final vote count there in the next 15 minutes or so. The initial count had to be done by noon today EST. It'll be interesting to see what the final gap between Scott and Nelson is since it shrank every time the vote updated.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:47
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Chomskyan posted:If George W. Bush is running against Donald Trump as a Democrat I will vote for him. Why? Because I'm just that principled. "Well guys, if the steak-lovers association of America ever nominates a pile of horse poo poo for tastiest steak... and my choices are a pile of horse poo poo or the septic tank underneath a Golden Coral, then I guess I'm eating a pile of horse poo poo. " "Your premise is now busted, I've check-mated you" ~Chomskyan But you see... how in this insane loving analogy did the steak-lovers nominate a pile of horse poo poo as tastiest steak? I feel like this wasn't ever going to happen anyway. Besides, pile of horse poo poo already served 2 terms. 
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Nov 10, 2018 17:47
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Lote posted:Seriously. If the candidate you wanted loses, you should be able to be an adult and vote for the candidate that will be most likely to advance your interests and not act like a child and take your ball and go home. Technically speaking, Trump probably advances my personal interests more than virtually any Democratic candidate, but I will never vote for him or the GOP.
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