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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, it's easy to forget just how much the notion of an RPG company talking explicitly about prostitution, evisceration, and using bad words was "edgy" in '92. In '18, it seems almost quaint.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:41
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I think it's pretty easy to conflate "topical 'n' tasteless" with legitimate content. All I can think of is Mark Rein Hagen's execrable I Am Zombie having a subplot where the evil zombie splat are in control of/puppeting North Korea.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:42
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Alien Rope Burn posted:What I really didn't understand was the notion from Ericcson that White Wolf ever put out "topical" or "ripped from the headlines" sorts of games. I mean, yes, they acknowledged some basic social problems and leaned heavily on the trends of freaks and geeks, but they never really centered around real-life issues. There was Werewolf's environmentalism, but it was taken to such a ridiculous and magical level that it was essentially divorced from the actual issues of such. The phrase “but it’s the World of DARKNESS not the World of Sunshine/Rainbows/Puppies” gets thrown around a lot whenever these kinds of issues are brought up. What these people fail to realize is that the WoD setting isn’t “the real world, but lovely things happen”. It’s “the real world but shittier.” It takes the shadows of the world and fills them with awful things. It takes our fears and puts a face to them. There IS a monster under your bed. If you go down that dark alley, you WILL be hurt. The Cops are 100% on the take, and not just “a few bad apples”. Role playing games DO make you worship Satan. Corporations are loving up the environment for profit AND because their Dark Lord told them to. Etc. A pogrom of gay people isn’t made more horrible because “vampires did it.” “Vampires did it” is far less scary than the idea that a class of people can be hated to the point of genocide. It’s a failure in horror writing as well as being a failure in sensitivity.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:51
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Antivehicular posted:I think it's pretty easy to conflate "topical 'n' tasteless" with legitimate content. All I can think of is Mark Rein You know what would be truly transgressive? A RPG that supports Juche and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea's right to defend themselves from american aggression. But alas.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:54
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Bosushi! posted:The phrase “but it’s the World of DARKNESS not the World of Sunshine/Rainbows/Puppies” gets thrown around a lot whenever these kinds of issues are brought up. What these people fail to realize is that the WoD setting isn’t “the real world, but lovely things happen”. It’s “the real world but shittier.”
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Nov 18, 2018 05:07
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Antivehicular posted:All I can think of is Mark Rein It takes a special kind of writer to create something I would term "one of the worst zombie RPGs of all time", but there it is. Dawgstar posted:It seems to me Marty was apparently inspired by, in all the wrong ways, by books like Charnel Houses of Europe. That was 'real' and 'transgressive' and in his madness conflated 'thoughtful' and 'mature' with 'puerile' and 'edgy.' Well, Charnel Houses of Europe worked within the aftermath and fallout of a historical event without really changing it in any meaningful way. That's not to say White Wolf never had their own stumbles - having a blatant James Randi analogue being an agent of a demonic child sexual abuse cult strikes me as a forgotten low point born out of the Satanic abuse hoax of the time (Rage Across New York, for the morbidly curious). And there's the cringeworthy aforementioned Destiny's Price, and I'm sure others can think of other low points. But those aren't exactly thought of as classics.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:It takes a special kind of writer to create something I would term "one of the worst zombie RPGs of all time", but there it is. I assumed it had been lost in development hell. What happened?
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Nov 18, 2018 11:27
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, Charnel Houses of Europe worked within the aftermath and fallout of a historical event without really changing it in any meaningful way. That's not to say White Wolf never had their own stumbles - having a blatant James Randi analogue being an agent of a demonic child sexual abuse cult strikes me as a forgotten low point born out of the Satanic abuse hoax of the time (Rage Across New York, for the morbidly curious). And there's the cringeworthy aforementioned Destiny's Price, and I'm sure others can think of other low points. But those aren't exactly thought of as classics. I always forget Destiny's Price was a Black Dog book, as I've never read it. The idea of an 'urban' sourcebook never had much appeal but as it was developed by Brucato I'm going to imagine I dodged a bullet. Sadly I'm quite familiar with Rage Across New York, which holds some of my favorite moments of peak 1E White Wolf pretentiousness and cringe.
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Nov 18, 2018 14:40
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Dawgstar posted:Sadly I'm quite familiar with Rage Across New York, which holds some of my favorite moments of peak 1E White Wolf pretentiousness and cringe. Rage Across New York has some cringe, but it also has me yearning for the halcyon days when pedophiles were antagonists instead of sample PCs.
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Nov 18, 2018 16:59
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I miss the days when the worst things were Undead Menses and BvD.
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Nov 18, 2018 19:36
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Ah, BvD. That really was quaint, wasn't it?
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Nov 18, 2018 19:37
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Reene posted:Ah, BvD. That really was quaint, wasn't it? It literally was. I remember describing that as "in Masquerade, vampires make babies fight dogs as an illustration of the unfathomable cruelty of the inhuman beings who secretly control the world. In Requiem, vampires make babies fight dogs because it's been fifty years since they remembered what emotionally-fulfilling connections were like and they're so loving bored you wouldn't believe it."
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Nov 18, 2018 19:43
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neonchameleon posted:I assumed it had been lost in development hell. What happened? It was for awhile, including the highlight where Mark revealed that he'd been working on a different fantasy game: "Backers, would you like to playtest this...? No, you're upset? Let's just delete those posts..." And the playtest in question was loaded with placeholder art that by no means did he have the rights to - which isn't all that unusual for private playtests, but is generally a no-no for public playtests. In any case, it did eventually come out to very little fanfare, which is why you're saying "Oh, that came out?"
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Nov 18, 2018 20:07
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Please. Like the zac s cell phone game about huffing rear end wasn't bad enough to fold White Wolf. excuse me
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Nov 18, 2018 21:50
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Shut up about White Wolf!!!! Let's talk about something else. Are there any Tabletop RPG that have been made on the middle east or turkey? There might be a fanbase there I think.
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Nov 18, 2018 21:57
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Zeerust posted:excuse me The mobile game is bad. Huffing rear end is a mild way of putting it. Zakky boy decided to put somebody he didn't like into the game as a horrible monster, and that's not the worst part.
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Nov 18, 2018 22:10
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I agree with dropping the WW derail, but I knew nothing about any of this and looking it up reminded me what a monumental taint that guy is
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Nov 18, 2018 22:53
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Plutonis posted:Shut up about White Wolf!!!! Let's talk about something else. Are there any Tabletop RPG that have been made on the middle east or turkey? There might be a fanbase there I think. Specifically I can't think of any off the top of my head but I wouldn't be surprised if there was an Ars Magica supplement or two focused on those regions.
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Nov 18, 2018 22:57
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Kai Tave posted:Specifically I can't think of any off the top of my head but I wouldn't be surprised if there was an Ars Magica supplement or two focused on those regions. There’s a Greece one that also goes all the way to Armenia, but nothing in the Levant as far as I’m aware.
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Nov 18, 2018 23:10
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fool_of_sound posted:There’s a Greece one that also goes all the way to Armenia, but nothing in the Levant as far as I’m aware. Blood and Sand — the Levant Tribunal, perhaps?
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Nov 18, 2018 23:16
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Hillfolk is set in the Levant (in the 2d millennium BCE, but still).
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Nov 18, 2018 23:17
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It’s still in 4e, I meant in the current edition, which is much better researched and written.
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Nov 18, 2018 23:20
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fool_of_sound posted:It’s still in 4e, I meant in the current edition, which is much better researched and written. Fair enough. I don't think 4e is actually bad, but I do regret that they decided not to go back and redo the Tribunals that were already written up, even the ones from the Bad Editions.
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Nov 18, 2018 23:24
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Kai Tave posted:Specifically I can't think of any off the top of my head but I wouldn't be surprised if there was an Ars Magica supplement or two focused on those regions. I mean like made by Middle Eastern studios. Like if someone made a TRPG version of Garsharp the Monster Slayer.
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Nov 18, 2018 23:25
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So some ComicGaters are trying to get 'DnDGate' off on the same foot, which includes streams of stand ins of comics types like Gail Simone so they can kill and/or molest. https://twitter.com/LandoPan/status/1064563718845943808 Ethics in whatever blah blah.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:03
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So I've been thinking I want to run at least a one-shot of Spire sometime soon, and then I realized what a great Spire plot would be: "Ever drow in the North Docks liked Lolthmas a lot. But the aelfir who live up in Amaranth did not!" How The Ministers Stole Lolthmas Back, in which you are assigned to defy the authorities and throw a giant party/riot celebrating the banned gods of the dark elves during the most festive season. (Yes, I know Lolth isn't in Spire, but Limiyemas had too many syllables.)
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Nov 19, 2018 19:40
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Dawgstar posted:So some ComicGaters are trying to get 'DnDGate' off on the same foot, which includes streams of stand ins of comics types like Gail Simone so they can kill and/or molest. Didn't they already try this and have it fart out a few months ago? I think Pundit was trying for a bit, but no one gave a poo poo so he just started signal boosting comicsgate crap instead.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:48
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Desiden posted:Didn't they already try this and have it fart out a few months ago? I think Pundit was trying for a bit, but no one gave a poo poo so he just started signal boosting comicsgate crap instead. Yeah, they seem to try and drag it up by the scruff of its neck every now and then to make it a Real Thing. The last time I recall was Desborough trying.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:50
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Dawgstar posted:So some ComicGaters are trying to get 'DnDGate' off on the same foot, which includes streams of stand ins of comics types like Gail Simone so they can kill and/or molest. I'll say again, the solution is making sure these guys are hungry and unclothed as much as possible. Finding ways to get them de-listed and de-monetized from social media and payment systems is a start, but the real point is always going to be making sure you can't do this kind of stuff and have a job capable of supporting yourself. If you're stuck with Maslow physiological level concerns (not just women won't love me) you don't get time to organize stuff like this. It's also why the libertarian types hate the idea, since it means there's actually some adults in the room running poo poo instead of the kids drawing on the wall and eating paste. And the adults sure as hell aren't the guys grifting $20 comics with appalling art or trying to rile up basement dwellers.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:51
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rkajdi posted:I'll say again, the solution is making sure these guys are hungry and unclothed as much as possible. Finding ways to get them de-listed and de-monetized from social media and payment systems is a start, but the real point is always going to be making sure you can't do this kind of stuff and have a job capable of supporting yourself. If you're stuck with Maslow physiological level concerns (not just women won't love me) you don't get time to organize stuff like this.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:08
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Elephant Parade posted:Even nazis are entitled to food and shelter, actually. I agree with everything else, but maybe don't frame this as an attempt to inflict primal suffering on human beings, no matter how reprehensible they might be Something Awful Tradgames: Not a place for metaphors, no sir.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:11
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Elephant Parade posted:Even nazis are entitled to food and shelter, actually. incorrect, actually
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Nov 19, 2018 20:16
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That Old Tree posted:Something Awful Tradgames: Not a place for metaphors, no sir. Serf posted:incorrect, actually Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 20:30
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Elephant Parade posted:Even nazis are entitled to food and shelter, actually. I agree with everything else, but maybe don't frame this as an attempt to inflict primal suffering on human beings, no matter how reprehensible they might be Nope. There's a reason we hung them after the war. Legit violence against them (be it military, judicial, economic, or something else) has been the only thing that has worked in stopping fascism. Our main mistakes were not punishing more of them and doing nothing about sympathizers and quislings. It's not a problem you can hug out, and economic violence is the most commonly acceptable in our society. Doing otherwise just creates the argument we have now with "economic insecurity", where the line seems to be "give me things, or I'll punch/kill these minorities". I don't buy we should be negotiating with terrorists, especially when the historical follow on has been to have these people use their new power and freedom to hurt minorities and then burn the system down as soon as someone who doesn't look like them gets a similar chance.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:32
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Serf posted:incorrect, actually I think one can hold that deprivation is immoral, even while holding the position that Nazis should be killed, driven out of the body politic, etc. Deprivation is torture. In a practical sense, it may be the case under capitalism that the only way to prevent (these) Nazis (in gaming) from organizing correlates one to one with depriving them, but that's because capitalism's tools are terrible, not because anyone would be allowed to starve in a just society, even the really lovely people. Put another way: I wouldn't wish poverty on anyone, but stripping power from someone under capitalism means stripping them of wealth, which means condemning them to poverty. I'm not going to shed tears for the poor nazis, but I also think it's good to directly disagree with the 'meritocratic' logic of capitalism, in which slow immiseration by deprivation is considered an acceptable thing to inflict on people. Edit to add: Basically, I'm all for inflicting violence on Nazis as necessary to prevent them coming to power; I don't think there is any theoretical context in which torture is in fact necessary. That's sort of the definition of torture. Similarly, I'm all for doing whatever it actually takes to prevent serious sex offenders from ever getting the opportunity to victimize people again, but I don't think forcing them to sleep under bridges (good job, USA) serves any purpose whatsoever in doing so. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 20:33
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Well...this all escalated quickly.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:34
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Joe Slowboat posted:I think one can hold that deprivation is immoral, even while holding the position that Nazis should be killed, driven out of the body politic, etc.  I also don't think killing Western Nazis is remotely necessary or helpful. But stripping them of wealth, power, and platforms? Hell yes.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:37
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Elephant Parade posted:I guess I might have interpreted that a bit too literally, yeah. no, actually, you just gotta put 'em down
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Nov 19, 2018 20:40
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, they seem to try and drag it up by the scruff of its neck every now and then to make it a Real Thing. The last time I recall was Desborough trying. You can tell they're desperate from how they're namedropping Gail in the hope that she'll find and share the post during her regular namesearches on Twitter. Tabletop RPGs being a shallower pool than even American comics means there's no major creators with a social media following near her level that they could use for incidental signal boosts in the same way.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:45
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Elephant Parade posted:Even nazis are entitled to food and shelter, actually.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:45
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