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I was content with Kamille, Judau and Amuro being three of the strongest Newtype individuals since the franchise has repeatedly tried to say "combat is not what Newtypes are inherently supposed to be for." Like, the concept of a fighting Newtype and how terrifying they could be was fine but pretty well explored. I'm just seriously tired of the franchise being LOOK WHAT THE NEWTYPES CAN DO NOW! just make a UC Gundam where Newtypes are around but not necessarily the ace pilot/tool of war. I'm ready to see more civilian Newtype life, honestly. I fully understand my complaints don't really make sense in the giant robot franchise hellbent on finding excuses to make new robots.
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Dec 1, 2018 02:02
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Shinjobi posted:just make a UC Gundam where Newtypes are around but not necessarily the ace pilot/tool of war. I mean, that's kind of F91 and Victory. Yea, Seabook and Uso are still ace pilots and tools for the war, but that they're Newtypes barely comes up and is more a footnote compared to the earlier UC protagonists.
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Dec 1, 2018 02:12
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You can always take the tribe of newtype kids living in southeast asia (or don't, because you should have stopped watching 08th MS Team one episode earlier)
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Dec 1, 2018 02:14
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Shinjobi posted:I was content with Kamille, Judau and Amuro being three of the strongest Newtype individuals since the franchise has repeatedly tried to say "combat is not what Newtypes are inherently supposed to be for." Like, the concept of a fighting Newtype and how terrifying they could be was fine but pretty well explored. I'm just seriously tired of the franchise being LOOK WHAT THE NEWTYPES CAN DO NOW! The interesting thing about Amuro as a Newtype is that, well, he's not typically shown to be the most impressive there. Better than Char, but not the top of the charts. It's just that on top of being a pretty good Newtype, he was the greatest MS pilot alive. An ace pilot and a Newtype, rather than an ace pilot because he was a Newtype.
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Dec 1, 2018 03:42
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Shinjobi posted:To hell with Newtypes, all of this new stuff takes their bullshit to ridiculous...er levels, and I'm just worn out by it. Makes ya want more IBO, more connecting our brains to our giant robots cause the newtypes are taking our jerbs.
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Dec 1, 2018 04:48
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tsob posted:I mean, that's kind of F91 and Victory. Yea, Seabook and Uso are still ace pilots and tools for the war, but that they're Newtypes barely comes up and is more a footnote compared to the earlier UC protagonists. On the other hand, the entire endgame of Victory is about the weaponisation of Newtypes on the grandest and most horrifying level in the entire franchise, and F91 contains one of the most grotesque distortions of the Newtype concept - a Cyber-Newtype so heavily altered that he's all but entirely abandoned his humanity to become an alien war machine.
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Dec 1, 2018 08:06
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Shinjobi posted:I was content with Kamille, Judau and Amuro being three of the strongest Newtype individuals since the franchise has repeatedly tried to say "combat is not what Newtypes are inherently supposed to be for." Like, the concept of a fighting Newtype and how terrifying they could be was fine but pretty well explored. I'm just seriously tired of the franchise being LOOK WHAT THE NEWTYPES CAN DO NOW! Solution: Newtype captain in charge of caring for a team of extremely skilled pilots with personality disorders (who are not themselves newtypes, mostly). Easy as poo poo, especially if you make the captain a hot lady.
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Dec 1, 2018 09:07
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tsob posted:I don't really get why people think Char's Counterattack is any kind of bookend to early UC. It has nothing to say about most of the stuff raised in 0079, Zeta or ZZ; it's just an (in my opinion, unnecessary) resolution to Amuro and Char's story and not the story of UC up to that point. It doesn't say anything about Newtypes, Zeon or even about Contolism/Ereism despite it being part of Char's motive and which are the biggest points in UC outside those particular characters up to that point. I've always kind of liked Unicorn because it tried to say something about some of those; even if it didn't do a great job. I dunno, Amuro and Char's entire last argument that spans the entirety of their final mobile suit battle and up to the point where Amuro pushes back Axis is basically about Contolism. Specifically, they both agree on the idea that humanity is best off moving into space, and their fundamental disagreement is in how, when, and how fast it needs to be done. Char wants it done RIGHT loving NOW because he has no faith in humanity and believes that people weighed down by gravity will delay humanity's apotheosis for long enough that Earth might be ruined in the meantime, so he wants to force the issue. Amuro believes that it will get done at some point when humans do it willingly, because he believes in humanity, and that even though he agrees with Char that Contolism is the ultimate way to go, he certainly doesn't agree that accelerating the time table is worth planetary destruction and genocide. I also disagree that it says nothing about Newtypes. Newtypes in their pure, unexploited form are fundamentally meant to break down the barriers of communication and emotion that divide humans from each other. This is why basically every newtype relationship we ever see is founded on a deep, wordless understanding, why newtypes can sense each other so easily, and why it's so tragic when newtypes are exploited for war despite their boundless potential for peace and understanding. Amuro's final action in CCA is basically him using the Psycoframe to amplify his abilities in order to be able to connect with and communicate the will of humanity, writ large. In his own words, "That's why we have to show the world the light of the human heart." The final action of the most famous newtype in the UC isn't to use his awesome newtype powers to shoot down a million mobile suits or beat the bad guy, it's to use his newtype abilities to join the wills of a whole lot of people together to save the planet. The statement CCA makes is that the most powerful ability of newtypes isn't awesome fighting powers or talking with ghosts, it's linking humans together. That's a pretty strong statement.
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Dec 1, 2018 12:11
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Kanos posted:I dunno, Amuro and Char's entire last argument that spans the entirety of their final mobile suit battle and up to the point where Amuro pushes back Axis is basically about Contolism. Specifically, they both agree on the idea that humanity is best off moving into space, and their fundamental disagreement is in how, when, and how fast it needs to be done. Char wants it done RIGHT loving NOW because he has no faith in humanity and believes that people weighed down by gravity will delay humanity's apotheosis for long enough that Earth might be ruined in the meantime, so he wants to force the issue. Amuro believes that it will get done at some point when humans do it willingly, because he believes in humanity, and that even though he agrees with Char that Contolism is the ultimate way to go, he certainly doesn't agree that accelerating the time table is worth planetary destruction and genocide. I mean, 'talking with ghosts' is just an extension of the whole 'linking humans together' thing. Why only create harmony and understanding among those currently living?
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Dec 1, 2018 13:47
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Nessus posted:Yeah but how are you gonna sell the robots? Hmm. There've been a handful of oldtype pilot protagonists, but how often have we seen non-pilot newtypes? That could be an interesting avenue to go down as long as it isn't completely beholden to the trope of the mecha pilot who has to protect his magical princess waifu.
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Dec 1, 2018 15:38
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HitTheTargets posted:Hmm. There've been a handful of oldtype pilot protagonists, but how often have we seen non-pilot newtypes? That could be an interesting avenue to go down as long as it isn't completely beholden to the trope of the mecha pilot who has to protect his magical princess waifu. Well, Victory had Shakti who was a powerful Newtype who didn't fight, as well as her mom the Queen of Zanscare.
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Dec 1, 2018 16:07
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Mineva is a newtype and not a pilot
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Dec 1, 2018 16:42
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Darth Walrus posted:On the other hand, the entire endgame of Victory is about the weaponisation of Newtypes on the grandest and most horrifying level in the entire franchise, and F91 contains one of the most grotesque distortions of the Newtype concept - a Cyber-Newtype so heavily altered that he's all but entirely abandoned his humanity to become an alien war machine. I agree with this. Victory does have a lot to say about newtypes for various reasons. The term itself comes up as legendary as the Gundam itself, especially since there hasn't been a major notable conflict or ware since F91 (and even then, F91 and Crossbone's events were pretty isolated to the point where people probably just watched the news and reacted with a blank "that kinda sucks"). But they still exist in the form of Queen Maria even without conflict, and Uso awakens his abilities in battle in a unique fashion (Uso is interesting in the sense that I think he's Earth born and spent a significant part of his life on Earth; it's been a year or so since I've rewatched the series didn't he start awakening his abilities on Earth as well?), and the Angel Halo is legit the worst, most astronomically frightening example of newtype technology in the entire UC. NT spoilers if that summary is accurate on this detail, this actually makes Minerva being like "we need to erase psycho-frame data!" a bit depressing; instead of the psycho-frame, everyone goes back to using Bio-computers or psycommus and it ends up being even worse.
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Dec 1, 2018 17:49
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MechaX posted:NT spoilers if that summary is accurate on this detail, this actually makes Minerva being like "we need to erase psycho-frame data!" a bit depressing; instead of the psycho-frame, everyone goes back to using Bio-computers or psycommus and it ends up being even worse. I checked some Japanese spoiler pages just to make sure and while that was a rather generous paraphrasing, her actual quote is still to the effect of sealing away the secrets of the Unicorn and psycho-frame.
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Dec 1, 2018 19:35
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, 'talking with ghosts' is just an extension of the whole 'linking humans together' thing. Why only create harmony and understanding among those currently living? People who are currently alive tend to be substantially more important to cultivate harmonious relationships between, given that people who are alive can make decisions that can make other people dead.
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Dec 1, 2018 19:53
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Kanos posted:People who are currently alive tend to be substantially more important to cultivate harmonious relationships between, given that people who are alive can make decisions that can make other people dead. Finale of Zeta says the dead can still loving murder you if they choose.
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Dec 1, 2018 19:55
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RillAkBea posted:I checked some Japanese spoiler pages just to make sure and while that was a rather generous paraphrasing, her actual quote is still to the effect of sealing away the secrets of the Unicorn and psycho-frame. What if they just lock it away in a really hard to find box?
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Dec 1, 2018 20:11
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Darth Walrus posted:Finale of Zeta says the dead can still loving murder you if they choose. Provided that they're being channeled through a ghost robot by the power of an angry psychic boy.
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Dec 1, 2018 20:13
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Kanos posted:Provided that they're being channeled through a ghost robot by the power of an angry psychic boy. Yeah, but it's Gundam. You're going to run into one of those every time you turn the corner.
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Dec 1, 2018 20:23
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If you build a Gundam, the angry psychic boys will come.
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Dec 1, 2018 20:24
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Just popping in to say that I am still enjoying Gundam DW 3 and F91is ridiculously fun to use.
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Dec 2, 2018 03:18
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HitTheTargets posted:What if they just lock it away in a really hard to find box?
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Dec 2, 2018 03:20
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Just popping in to say that I am still enjoying Gundam DW 3 and F91is ridiculously fun to use. You tried the Zephyranthes? That has a similarly satisfying moveset. As does the Hyaku-Shiki, actually, because they decided for some reason that that thing should move like a loving ninja.
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Dec 2, 2018 03:41
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Just popping in to say that I am still enjoying Gundam DW 3 and F91is ridiculously fun to use. Heck I greatly enjoyed the F91 in DWG2 as well, it's a solid machine. Though I'm also a fan of the GP01 in these too...just not with Kou inside of it.
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Dec 2, 2018 05:21
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Banana Links ruined newtypes forever.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:45
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I'd like seeing more Newtype superpowers in a follow up to Gundam X, but I agree there's not much more to do with them in the UC.
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Dec 2, 2018 21:09
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Dec 3, 2018 14:25
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Banagher is a million times worse then Kira.
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Dec 3, 2018 15:11
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Banagher doesn't cry as much.
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Dec 3, 2018 15:24
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Banagher does have that scene where he snaps and beats the poo poo out of Zinnerman. That's pretty fun.
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Dec 3, 2018 15:29
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Kira is worse than Banagher, but that's only because Kira in destiny is the worst protagonist(?) ever. Only Kio gives Kira a run for his money.
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Dec 3, 2018 15:42
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Arcsquad12 posted:Banagher doesn't cry as much. As much as Kira gets memed on really hard for the dying dolphin sobbing, most of the times when Kira cried were pretty sensible places for a teenager forced into his position to cry. Early SEED Kira's life was a nightmare that wouldn't stop. You could make a strong argument that he had it worse off than OYW Amuro did. Monaghan posted:Kira is worse than Banagher, but that's only because Kira in destiny is the worst protagonist(?) ever. Only Kio gives Kira a run for his money. I actually think this is debatable. Kira in Destiny is a deeply terrible character and Kio is insufferable, but Banagher is a blank wall of nothing.
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Dec 3, 2018 16:09
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But even so!
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Dec 3, 2018 16:21
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Kanos posted:
. Kira kept making dumbass decisions like doing the interventions in fights that he never really gets called on and the show itself seems to suggest is a good idea. Then we have him interfering in the Orb fight which allows a genocidal monster to get away and kill millions of people. But nope, show can't show Kira was wrong. This constant problem warped Shinn into a character with a ton of potential into an incoherent raging moron. Durandal turned from this Machiavellian manipulator with grey morality to a guy just sitting on the goddamn emperors chair, because we gotta have Kira's actions against him be justified. Banagher did dumb poo poo, but he didn't actively ruin the characters and plot around him. Zinnerman and Marida and Doguza were still interesting. The overall plot of Unicorn was pretty good The whole show bending over backwards to demonstrate that kira was always right just destroyed Destiny IMO, Monaghan fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 16:55
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I particularly like the episode where Djibril wipes out a bunch of colonies with the bendy moon laser and the closing scene is Kira and Lacus saying 'Yes, Durandal must be stopped'.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:14
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jackhunter64 posted:I particularly like the episode where Djibril wipes out a bunch of colonies with the bendy moon laser and the closing scene is Kira and Lacus saying 'Yes, Durandal must be stopped'. BOATH SIDES  This was my most hated thing about Seed in a narrative sense. "Both sides are bad, so lets whip up a deus ex superweapon that lets us dunk on them without dealing with the fact that more often than not you are stuck between two lovely options and your only realistic option is to pick the least lovely and throw sand in the gears of their worst ideas." The only reason the Cline faction managed to do jack or poo poo to OMNI and ZAFT is that they had some bugfuck crazy tech they stole from ZAFT. Seed would have been better if the protagonists had just gotten clowned because they didn't think their situation through and just decided to treat the war like a Dynasty Warriors game. The Plants get nuked to high hell and Earth is sterilized by gamma ray burst.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:03
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Warmachine posted:Seed would have been better if the protagonists had just gotten clowned because they didn't think their situation through and just decided to treat the war like a Dynasty Warriors game. The Plants get nuked to high hell and Earth is sterilized by gamma ray burst. Speaking of, it was great seeing Kira get called on his poo poo when he barges into battles in DW Gundam.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:17
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Remember when the Minerva almost got sunk by a combined Earth Alliance/Orb Fleet, and when Athrun tried to ask what in the gently caress Kira is even thinking because the Minerva crew is literally fighting for their survival, and Kira is like “but Cagalli’s crying!!”
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Dec 3, 2018 18:19
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Off the topic of my distaste for Seed, but when can we expect to see the first episode of Narrative on Gundaminfo? The 20-minute teaser is great and all, but I wanna be in on the spoilers drat it! 
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Dec 3, 2018 18:59
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Banagher is so loving empty. He doesn't exist as anything other than a plot device.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:00
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