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RevolverDivider posted:Lacus ordered the hit on herself so she had an excuse to go to war with Durandal and become god empress of space. I like this theory because of the rich vein of insanity it implies. Like what the hell was going on with Meer in this scenario. There may be no sensible answers, but there are multiple wonderfully ridiculous ones.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:38
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Caros posted:To be fair, the Lacus double is mostly an issue because it confirms without a doubt that Durandal sent a hit squad to murder her, Kira and a bunch of orphans in their home while they were having nothing to do with the war. To be fair to Durandal, Lacus wasn't really "out of the war" at any point. She had the entire Terminal organization humming along the entire time and that orphanage was also a fully serviced warship dock that was capable of maintaining and supplying the Archangel and its mobile suits. She's also such a powerful and hypnotic propaganda symbol that he was able to inspire a populace by making a knockoff. The hit squad was obviously a dick move but it wasn't like he decided to burn some children for no reason; she represented the single greatest threat to his government and plans in the entire world.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:52
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My favorite part of every gundam seed episode was when White Base got hit and they used the stock footage of the huge tiddie captain getting knocked forward in her seat. Thanks for listening.
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Dec 5, 2018 02:03
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I've been a gundam fan since wing on toonami and the only thing that has even gotten me close to watching Seed (I have not) is that captain lady
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Dec 5, 2018 02:34
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DamnGlitch posted:I've been a gundam fan since wing on toonami and the only thing that has even gotten me close to watching Seed (I have not) is that captain lady She's pretty much reused wholesale as a character in 00.
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Dec 5, 2018 02:41
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DamnGlitch posted:I've been a gundam fan since wing on toonami and the only thing that has even gotten me close to watching Seed (I have not) is that captain lady I mean, the actual captain is much lsss captain-y than the actual best lady in the show, Natarle.
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Dec 5, 2018 02:42
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It's a shame SEED is such a mess, cause I love most of it's mechanical designs, and there's some interesting background details to it's setting as well
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Dec 5, 2018 02:44
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The entire Meer thing was loving stupid from the very beginning. Like, Lacus visibly and loudly broke with ZAFT leadership during SEED with, by the end of the war, literally thousands of witnesses seeing this. Her magically popping up to go back to being nothing more than a completely apolitical songstress acting as eyecandy support for Durandal after that - and Coordinators actually believing that - was laughable. That everyone seemed to believe she was still Athrun's arranged fiancee, after SHE HAD BEEN PUBLICLY DECLARED A TRAITOR BY HIS OWN FATHER, was even more laughable. And as much as people like to claim Shinn could have been interesting, he's also by far the most nonsensical Gundam lead. Ever (at least if you're trying to pretend Durandal was every anything more than what he turned out to be). With a huge stable of veterans and aces still left from the previous war, he picks a... fresh from pilot training 15 year old, who's been part of the PLANTs for like a year tops, to pilot their new best weapon. Yeah, sure. There's a reason virtually every single story with an ace custom type of whatever (mecha, plane, power armor, whatever) with a young pilot goes with with the "became such out of circumstance rather than design." If you want to view it as Durandal realizing Shinn would be a great pawn that's easy to manipulate it can work, but then you can't really go claiming any sort of non-sinister plan even from the beginning. Destiny had huge issues plotwise, and they did not remotely start with Kira reentering the picture.
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Dec 5, 2018 02:47
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I feel like of all the things in SEED that had potential but got bungled, I'm gonna come out with an honest-to-God Hot Take and say that Flay's arc was where they dropped the ball hardest. drrockso20 posted:It's a shame SEED is such a mess, cause I love most of it's mechanical designs, and there's some interesting background details to it's setting as well Don't want to sound like I'm challenging you; I just like interesting things. What's cool in SEED?
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Dec 5, 2018 02:53
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Captain Cappy posted:My favorite part of every gundam seed episode was when White Base got hit and they used the stock footage of the huge tiddie captain getting knocked forward in her seat. Thanks for listening. Gundam AGE gave us Captain Anus
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Dec 5, 2018 02:58
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Lord Koth posted:The entire Meer thing was loving stupid from the very beginning. Like, Lacus visibly and loudly broke with ZAFT leadership during SEED with, by the end of the war, literally thousands of witnesses seeing this. Her magically popping up to go back to being nothing more than a completely apolitical songstress acting as eyecandy support for Durandal after that - and Coordinators actually believing that - was laughable. That everyone seemed to believe she was still Athrun's arranged fiancee, after SHE HAD BEEN PUBLICLY DECLARED A TRAITOR BY HIS OWN FATHER, was even more laughable. The ZAFT leadership during Gundam SEED was effectively a military takeover under Patrick Zala, to the point where they machine gunned Lacus's dad to death because he was part of the PLANT council who opposed Patrick. Lacus was declared a traitor by Patrick Zala because her father, a legitimately elected politician, was opposed to the junta. Durandal is the elected leader of the restored PLANT government after Patrick got shot in the head by one of his own men for being a genocidal madman, so it would be entirely and completely believable that Lacus would be willing to side with a newly elected government, since her father died as a martyr to the elected PLANT government. Shinn emigrated to PLANT during the first war, which was two years before the present day, and immediately entered the military academy there. Shinn is a red coat, which means that he's part of the tippy top class of ZAFT pilots which was established way back in the original SEED, so he's not just some dumb raw cadet - he's the equivalent of a top ace of a prestigious military academy. His age also isn't really a problem, since every major character is young as gently caress in SEED. At 16 years old, he's actually older than Athrun and the rest of the Creuset team were in SEED; you know, the squad that were sent in as a commando team and successfully jacked 4 out of 5 prototype Gundams, stole their technical information, and piloted them with distinction for half the war? He proves his chops almost immediately during the Gundamjack and has basically a flawless record until he gets beaten by Kira at Orb. Destiny has huge issues with its plot but the issues you're bringing up aren't really among them. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 03:13
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Shinjobi posted:Gundam AGE gave us Captain Anus So you're a fan of asses instead of breasts? 
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Dec 5, 2018 03:19
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Lord Koth posted:The entire Meer thing was loving stupid from the very beginning. Like, Lacus visibly and loudly broke with ZAFT leadership during SEED with, by the end of the war, literally thousands of witnesses seeing this. Her magically popping up to go back to being nothing more than a completely apolitical songstress acting as eyecandy support for Durandal after that - and Coordinators actually believing that - was laughable. That everyone seemed to believe she was still Athrun's arranged fiancee, after SHE HAD BEEN PUBLICLY DECLARED A TRAITOR BY HIS OWN FATHER, was even more laughable. Mikazuki, Uso, Kio, and Sai Saici were all chosen, for whatever that's worth. Depending on the show, and depending on the narrative goals, I can see some decent narrative reasons to give the Gundam to Shinn. First, even if Durandal's goals are ultimately on the up-and-up, there could be some shady parts where he wants to be sure his pilot will be loyal to him, not the PLANTs, which would make an outsider useful. You could have Shinn be setting performance records, showing abilities that would be a perfect match for the Gundam while the experienced aces like Athrun have habits that make them a bad fit. There's even the Untouchables route. "If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off the tree." The accidental pilot is a default for a reason, but there's other decent excuses if you're willing to put some extra work in.
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Dec 5, 2018 03:38
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HitTheTargets posted:I feel like of all the things in SEED that had potential but got bungled, I'm gonna come out with an honest-to-God Hot Take and say that Flay's arc was where they dropped the ball hardest. I'll second that. It was very obvious that her death was supposed to be this big emotional climax, but I can't imagine any viewer connecting with her enough to do so.
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Dec 5, 2018 03:40
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The G Gundam BD box from Nozomi not only has a print of the full "have you seen this man?" picture, but the back has a line so you can cut it to match the tear https://twitter.com/NozomiEnt/status/1069972998348775430
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Dec 5, 2018 03:41
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I didn't I could be any happier for getting that G Gundam boxset, but here we are. 
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Dec 5, 2018 03:51
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SEED strikes me now as something that was trying way too hard to be "deep and interesting" and it failed miserably at it. Where before we might see decent people on each side, instead we get a few sane people and hordes of crazed people nursing insane murderboners for each other. Which completely undoes any message about discrimination they might have had. Evidence 01 could have been used as a springboard for something interesting, but instead it's a random background detail that never gets mentioned again, except to make the random, pointless claim that after we found an alien skeleton, religion suddenly stopped being important. Also how exactly do the PLANTs have any gravity at all? Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 03:53
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Paper Kaiju posted:I'll second that. It was very obvious that her death was supposed to be this big emotional climax, but I can't imagine any viewer connecting with her enough to do so. I had an emotional reaction, but I don't think glee at her demise was the intended one.
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Dec 5, 2018 04:13
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:SEED strikes me now as something that was trying way too hard to be "deep and interesting" and it failed miserably at it. Where before we might see decent people on each side, instead we get a few sane people and hordes of crazed people nursing insane murderboners for each other. Which completely undoes any message about discrimination they might have had. I think they have gravity by the standard method for satellites, rotation. Spin something right, it forces you towards the outside, and now you can walk around, only floating as you move towards the center. At least, if memory serves.
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Dec 5, 2018 04:51
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chiasaur11 posted:Mikazuki, Uso, Kio, and Sai Saici were all chosen, for whatever that's worth. Uso wasn't exactly chosen. He hijacked an enemy MS and proved he was an amazing pilot before being asked to pilot the Victory Gundam because it's assigned pilot, Marbet Fingerhat, was hurt.
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Dec 5, 2018 05:30
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Kanos posted:The ZAFT leadership during Gundam SEED was effectively a military takeover under Patrick Zala, to the point where they machine gunned Lacus's dad to death because he was part of the PLANT council who opposed Patrick. Lacus was declared a traitor by Patrick Zala because her father, a legitimately elected politician, was opposed to the junta. Durandal is the elected leader of the restored PLANT government after Patrick got shot in the head by one of his own men for being a genocidal madman, so it would be entirely and completely believable that Lacus would be willing to side with a newly elected government, since her father died as a martyr to the elected PLANT government. I mean, I know all that? Doesn't change the fact that he declared her a traitor, which would kinda go with the presumption that there was no more engagement. And it's not even like they've been seen together in the year and a half since then, to presume they went back to it or something. Or that her going from extremely independent with loudly expressed beliefs and opinions to a completely submissive lapdog who even sings in a completely different style and literally no one ever even questions this. Kanos posted:Shinn emigrated to PLANT during the first war, which was two years before the present day, and immediately entered the military academy there. Shinn is a red coat, which means that he's part of the tippy top class of ZAFT pilots which was established way back in the original SEED, so he's not just some dumb raw cadet - he's the equivalent of a top ace of a prestigious military academy. His age also isn't really a problem, since every major character is young as gently caress in SEED. At 16 years old, he's actually older than Athrun and the rest of the Creuset team were in SEED; you know, the squad that were sent in as a commando team and successfully jacked 4 out of 5 prototype Gundams, stole their technical information, and piloted them with distinction for half the war? He proves his chops almost immediately during the Gundamjack and has basically a flawless record until he gets beaten by Kira at Orb. You mean the Red Coat infiltration squad that, even aside from their academy marks, consisted entirely of the children of High Council members, and were likely specifically chosen due to both extreme nepotism and the presumed belief of them being absolutely loyal, and silent, about raiding a neutral colony? And trying to claim Shinn's performance in the early part of the series (or ever, really, though one can possibly blame that on the PoV focus switch) is anything more than adequate is dubious at best. Even in the Armory One fight he had heavy backup (by actual other mobile suits, including those piloted by theoretically good pilots), and did so continually throughout the series. Add to that the Extendeds in particular never came off as particularly impressive pilots in the first place, and he spent most of the time up until Kira showed up beating up mooks - not much of even elite mooks at that. chiasaur11 posted:Mikazuki, Uso, Kio, and Sai Saici were all chosen, for whatever that's worth. Yeah, Mika and Kio in particular are actual good examples of the occasion where something else works. Mika because he was already the top pilot of what was a small child soldier group to begin with, so when they rebelled they obviously gave him the best piece of equipment. There was also the whole triple whisker thing. Kio due to a family heirloom being needed to pilot the thing. Sai Saici is G-Gundam, and G-Gundam plays entirely by its own rules.
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Dec 5, 2018 06:05
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Wasn’t Setsuna also chosen, or am I misremembering?
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Dec 5, 2018 06:56
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Solkanar512 posted:Wasn’t Setsuna also chosen, or am I misremembering? He was indeed.
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Dec 5, 2018 07:01
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Solkanar512 posted:Wasn’t Setsuna also chosen, or am I misremembering? He was, yes. Ribbons saw Setsuna looking at his Gundam like a god and went "Hey, this getting worshiped like a god thing is cool. I should try and keep this guy around so I can keep it coming. I'll say he's an ideal pilot candidate or something."
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Dec 5, 2018 07:02
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Captain Cappy posted:My favorite part of every gundam seed episode was when White Base got hit and they used the stock footage of the huge tiddie captain getting knocked forward in her seat. Thanks for listening. You make it sound like there's a non huge tiddie captain in SEED.
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Dec 5, 2018 08:04
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Lord Koth posted:And trying to claim Shinn's performance in the early part of the series (or ever, really, though one can possibly blame that on the PoV focus switch) is anything more than adequate is dubious at best. Even in the Armory One fight he had heavy backup (by actual other mobile suits, including those piloted by theoretically good pilots), and did so continually throughout the series. Add to that the Extendeds in particular never came off as particularly impressive pilots in the first place, and he spent most of the time up until Kira showed up beating up mooks - not much of even elite mooks at that. This argument honestly doesn't make a lot of sense and feels like trying to be dismissive to be dismissive. Shinn is frequently shown as being one of the top pilots in the setting. The fact that he has backup doesn't devalue that any more than it does for Amuro or Kamille or anyone else. He is almost always on the top unless he is having a personal moral crisis and several things he's shown to do actively shock other ace pilots. He's inconsistent because he's a hosed up kid but he's an absolute murder machine when he's focused. The Extended, likewise, are shown to be generally top-of-the-line pilots. They generally push back against anything that isn't a literal ace pilot. The fact the show focuses so much on overly-talented pilots may make it hard to see but they're pretty much buzzsaws against anyone not a protagonist unless they're having a freakout. Also the Impulse, while a good suit, isn't a god-suit. It isn't even as big a technological advancement over its surroundings as the Strike was. Its big advantage is flexibility and instant repairs. It's a Gundam so it's a high-end suit but it isn't a game-changer suit the way most Gundam protagonist suits are I'm not really sure what Gundam protagonists you'd say *do* have impressive showings if Shinn's stuff isn't good enough for you.
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Dec 5, 2018 08:12
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Lord Koth posted:I mean, I know all that? Doesn't change the fact that he declared her a traitor, which would kinda go with the presumption that there was no more engagement. And it's not even like they've been seen together in the year and a half since then, to presume they went back to it or something. Or that her going from extremely independent with loudly expressed beliefs and opinions to a completely submissive lapdog who even sings in a completely different style and literally no one ever even questions this. She got declared a traitor by an insane power mad dictator who took power in a coup whose own son actively rebelled against him and was instrumental in foiling his plan to wipe out most of humanity. Why would anyone care about her being declared a traitor or believe that Athrun shared any of his opinions about anything? The general public has no knowledge at all about Athrun and Lacus's private affairs, but it certainly wouldn't be weird for them to temporarily put their engagement on hold following the war and resuming it later, and they have no context for the brilliant superhot war hero ace pilot and the brilliant superhot ultra-famous idol and orator having reasons to not want to be together. It's also not really considered a major plot point because the only person who actually gives a poo poo about the factoid that Athrun and Lacus were engaged is Meer, and that's because Meer is an insane obsessive fangirl who is desperately attempting to mold herself to an image of Lacus that she has built up in her head and in her head one of the important Lacus Factoids is that Lacus obviously loved Athrun despite that not being anything approaching true in reality. Durandal obviously doesn't give a poo poo, and neither do the crew of the Minerva(Luna and Meyrin start hitting on Athrun basically the nanosecond he appears, and they have no knowledge that Athrun broke it off with Lacus - they just don't care). Durandal is an extremely popular and hypnotic orator who manages to convince the entirety of PLANT and much of the Earth that he's a cool, good, reasonable guy, so no one would ever have any reason to doubt that if he says this person who was surgically remodeled to look exactly like Lacus, was surgically remodeled to use Lacus's exact voice, and seems to superficially share Lacus's opinions(peace good! war bad!) is not Lacus. If you were a random person with no knowledge and you started going "THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT LACUS! YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE SHE'S SINGING AN UPBEAT POP SONG INSTEAD OF A SLOW ONE!" you would look like an insane tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. People do question Meer in the show; the thing is that the people who question Meer are people who actually know Lacus as a person, since the superficial video and audio illusion that Durandal deliberately created by having Meer go through surgery is a really good one that is sufficient to fool most people at a surface glance. quote:You mean the Red Coat infiltration squad that, even aside from their academy marks, consisted entirely of the children of High Council members, and were likely specifically chosen due to both extreme nepotism and the presumed belief of them being absolutely loyal, and silent, about raiding a neutral colony? Miguel, the guy who was supposed to steal the Strike but got killed by Kira, was a poor kid who joined the military to pay for medical treatment for his brother. They weren't all rich kids. Red coats are literally, by the text, considered the elite of the ZAFT military. They're not a Hitler Youth unit or something. Luna bangs on and on about how she's a red coat elite too when she feels like she's falling behind Shinn and Rey. Shinn earning a red coat means that he's got extremely high aptitude and scored extremely well in the academy. His performance bears this out; one of the most iconic scenes in early Destiny is the one where the Minerva is completely screwed due to being attacked by an Orb Fleet and Shinn, alone, singlehandedly blows up that entire fleet while the fleet desperately tries and fails to stop him and everyone on the Minerva looks on in horrified awe at what they're seeing. Shinn is also the only pilot besides Rau who ever actually overwhelms Kira, the benchmark of "best pilot in the SEED universe", in a fight, and he does it with an inferior Gundam .He never runs into a single issue fighting against large numbers of enemy mobile suits and is pretty much an unstoppable force until he slams directly into the Perspective Change Switch and goes from "guy who can beat Kira in a fight by exploiting Kira's hangups and utilizing the unique features of his Gundam in a clever and intelligent manner, even when entering SEED mode and getting Really Angry" to "incoherent frothing berserker who can't even put a mark on Kira's mobile suit".
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Dec 5, 2018 09:32
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MonsieurChoc posted:Uso wasn't exactly chosen. He hijacked an enemy MS and proved he was an amazing pilot before being asked to pilot the Victory Gundam because it's assigned pilot, Marbet Fingerhat, was hurt. Except that you learn later that his own mother, designer of Victory Gundam trained him from a young age to be an effective ambidextrous fighter and it's why Uso has such an edge piloting the Victory series.
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Dec 5, 2018 12:31
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I still can't believe that when Durandal sat down to plan the next line of cool prototype mobile suits for aces he decided to make a trio based on blue cosmos' ace units from the past war. Yes, let's take these symbols of the naturals' hatred of our peoples and pilot them. Oh but we'll change the one that transforms into a bird so that it transforms into a dog, because that's totally more useful. Who thought this made sense at all? GSD might only have gotten infamously terrible towards the end but it was never good and you could see how little thought there was behind it during the beginning.
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Dec 5, 2018 12:57
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GimmickMan posted:I still can't believe that when Durandal sat down to plan the next line of cool prototype mobile suits for aces he decided to make a trio based on blue cosmos' ace units from the past war. Yes, let's take these symbols of the naturals' hatred of our peoples and pilot them. Oh but we'll change the one that transforms into a bird so that it transforms into a dog, because that's totally more useful. Who thought this made sense at all? It makes roughly as much sense as the Federation happily embracing Zaku-like designs in Zeta.
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Dec 5, 2018 13:10
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GimmickMan posted:I still can't believe that when Durandal sat down to plan the next line of cool prototype mobile suits for aces he decided to make a trio based on blue cosmos' ace units from the past war. Yes, let's take these symbols of the naturals' hatred of our peoples and pilot them. Oh but we'll change the one that transforms into a bird so that it transforms into a dog, because that's totally more useful. Who thought this made sense at all? Most of ZAFT's Gundam designs were ripoffs of the technology they stole from the Alliance, so it makes sense that they have broad similarities to Alliance designs. It's why the Impulse is basically just Strike 2.0, for example, down to having packs that do basically the same thing as the Strike's but slightly fancier. That said, the Chaos/Gaia/Abyss don't really have a lot of specific similarities to the Blue Cosmos units. The Calamity was an artillery unit with a lot of guns, the Raider was a weird transforming flight capable close combat unit, and the Forbidden was a testbed for a gimmick shield system that let it shoot curvy beams. The Chaos/Gaia/Abyss were all supposed to be testbed units for superiority in specific terrains. The Chaos is supposed to be an air/space superiority unit(which is why it flies and has funnels and a bunch of guns), the Gaia is supposed to be a ground superiority unit(which is why it has the doggo form to echo the BaCUE/LaGOWE), and the Abyss is supposed to be a water superiority unit(which is why it turns into a speedboat submarine). The similarities mostly boil down to "there are three of them and they end up being piloted by drug addict enhanced humans against the protagonists".
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Dec 5, 2018 13:23
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I like the underwater variants of the Forbidden Gundam, they make good use of the Combat Hat. Too bad they never got gunpla'd
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Dec 5, 2018 13:31
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So is the Narrative Gundam just an RX-93 with mobile armor attachments to make up for missing armor pieces?
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Dec 5, 2018 19:20
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Arcsquad12 posted:So is the Narrative Gundam just an RX-93 with mobile armor attachments to make up for missing armor pieces? It's not been explained exactly what it is besides a psycho frame test bed. It also has a Unicorn destroy esque look when the psycho frame is powered. The mobile armor stuff is the A pack though. B pack is missile pod shields and psycommu claws. C pack is a regular shield and rifle.
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Dec 5, 2018 19:30
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Blaze Dragon posted:It makes roughly as much sense as the Federation happily embracing Zaku-like designs in Zeta. Honestly that never bothered me that much. The Titans absorbed a lot of leftovers following the events of 0083, Anaheim was always making poo poo for both sides, and everyone roundly acknowledged that the Zaku base was really one of the better base frames for MS combat. The GM is always trying to catch up to it until probably the early 0090s. It makes sense that in a weakened Federation you would leverage whatever resources were available including the mono eye designs the now mostly defunct Zeon's used.
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Dec 5, 2018 20:13
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The Titans use Zeon-looking mechs because they're the bad guys.
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Dec 5, 2018 20:34
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Honestly that never bothered me that much. The Titans absorbed a lot of leftovers following the events of 0083, Anaheim was always making poo poo for both sides, and everyone roundly acknowledged that the Zaku base was really one of the better base frames for MS combat. The GM is always trying to catch up to it until probably the early 0090s. It makes sense that in a weakened Federation you would leverage whatever resources were available including the mono eye designs the now mostly defunct Zeon's used. The Zaku base... better. What? GMs ate Zakus alive. There's a scene in the Origin where GMs and Zakus square off for the first time and it's a turkey shoot. It was only ace-of-aces level pilots who managed to reliably beat GMs with a Zaku. Zeon didn't have a better suit than the GM until the Gelgoog.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:19
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chiasaur11 posted:The Zaku base... better. The Zaku owned the feddies for the entirety of the OYW until they simply out produced them. Guys piloting them deep into the 0080s clown on Fed Suits in almost every series. A Bao A Qu is literally Zeon being out numbered and the GMs finally getting beam pistol/rifles that give them a firepower advantage on top of the numbers. The specs are better, but there is a drat good reason dudes rock Zaku 2s for so drat long. Add in the fact that Fed pilots had a serious experience deficiency and uhh I just don't agree with your assessment. And uhh having just watched Origin, there is not a single scene where the GMs get the upper hand, the first Fed MS on the Moon get absolutely torn apart by the Zaku 1. The Zaku 2 is a suit that carries longevity until almost Zeta. What are you talking about? The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 01:29
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The Notorious ZSB posted:The Zaku owned the feddies for the entirety of the OYW until they simply out produced them. Guys piloting them deep into the 0080s clown on Fed Suits in almost every series. A Bao A Qu is literally Zeon being out numbered and the GMs finally getting beam pistol/rifles that out gun them. The GM was a significantly superior suit to the Zaku, but Zeon pilots were massively more experienced than Federation pilots. When the Federation started mass producing GMs, they made them faster than they could train pilots. as shown in Thunderbolt, when they had teens piloting GMs. Meanwhile, Zeon pilots had been piloting MS through the entire war. It's actually shown in the Origin scene you reference. The point of that scene wasn't "Zeon suits are better than Federation suits", it showed off the result of Zeon committing to MS years beforehand and having highly skilled pilots.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:39
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Gripweed posted:It's actually shown in the Origin scene you reference. The point of that scene wasn't "Zeon suits are better than Federation suits", it showed off the result of Zeon committing to MS years beforehand and having highly skilled pilots. It's both as that scene is the prime reason why the Gundam project gets the remaining push it needed. What they had produced outside of that project was immobile garbage compared to what Zeon was making.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:42
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