Sekiro: high monk trades divine/grass with potnoble, becomes/a redeyed ogre

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Sekiro: high monk trades divine/grass with potnoble, becomes/a redeyed ogre

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Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Skypie posted:

Welp. Spent the afternoon getting stomped in Mibu by Corrupted Monk. might need to come back later when I have a bit more health or healing or find some confetti and red sugar. This boss feels way more punishing when you goof up than Gyobu or Butterfly

you're "intended" to do that boss quite a bit later, so don't worry about it

I did it as my third boss and it basically required a full 10 minutes of not messing up while slowly chipping it down :v:

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:57

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# ? May 18, 2024 16:43

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Zaphod42 posted:

Nah you're good. He's saying if you press B early you still get the counter off because B is dodge. If you press counter early, your guy seems to kinda just dodge-into-counter. The counter is pretty forgiving.

I actually thought your guy even runs up to people to counter them, it's that forgiving. What actually happens is that if you press B early, you dodge forward and then Mikiri counter as soon as you get in range. Basically, you can't fail at it, unless you forget that the stick should ideally be in neutral.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:57

Kild: Apr 24, 2010

Jesustheastronaut! posted:

lady butterfly is a broken fight. I've never seen a boss be so hopelessly stunlocked from the most basic attacks to the point where someone who's never played a video game before could beat her by pressing two buttons over and over until she dies. not sure how that one got passed testing

ed:sp

Even without the combat art cheeze I beat her just by attacking sidestep attacking and that looped her until death.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:57

Miss Mowcher: Jul 24, 2007; Ribbit

Wolf does little damage and takes too much, his health is too low and you have only a few ways to regain health.

It�s frustrating that one or two mistakes and you�re dead. Making Wolf more durable would go a long way to cut the number of tries you need to get that perfect boss run (would probably let you be more aggressive too).

Bloodborn rally mechanic was so good, this game needs something like that (not the health on deathblow skill, a way to get some health back during a battle doing damage or after a perfect parry, or dunno, countering the red attacks would be pretty good)

Everything else is really cool

Miss Mowcher fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 25, 2019

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:58

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Cardiovorax posted:

I actually thought your guy even runs up to people to counter them, it's that forgiving. What actually happens is that if you press B early, you dodge forward and then Mikiri counter as soon as you get in range. Basically, you can't fail at it, unless you forget that the stick should ideally be in neutral.

yeah, the way the mikiri counter works is that while you're in your forward dodge frames and a perilous thrust attack hits you, you counter it. As long as you're in that dodge animation, you'll counter it.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:58

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Look Sir Droids posted:

Personally I'm just mad I'm at work instead of at home playing Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

god, same
the worst part is I still live with my parents, so the only time I get to use the TV is when they've gone off to bed, and I have to get up early the next day, so I only get an hour or two to play, it sucks

# ? Mar 25, 2019 21:59

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

Your Computer posted:

you're "intended" to do that boss quite a bit later, so don't worry about it

I did it as my third boss and it basically required a full 10 minutes of not messing up while slowly chipping it down

He took a while

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:00

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

ZZZorcerer posted:

Wolf does little damage and takes too much, his health is too low and you have only a few ways to regain health.

It�s frustrating that one or two mistakes and you�re dead. Making Wolf more durable would go a long way to cut the number of tries you need to get that perfect boss run.

Everything else is really cool

Getting some prayer bead upgrades helps a ton. He's really fragile at the beginning.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:01

goblin week: Jan 26, 2019; Absolute clown.

I discovered an amazing strat for the Corrupted Monk that basically let me beat her second try with it

Snap seeds both deal damage AND stun her, and two uses of these along with some fireworks make her go straight into permanent posture buildup HP range

goblin week fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 25, 2019

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:01

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

ZZZorcerer posted:

Wolf does little damage and takes too much, his health is too low and you have only a few ways to regain health.

It�s frustrating that one or two mistakes and you�re dead. Making Wolf more durable would go a long way to cut the number of tries you need to get that perfect boss run.

Everything else is really cool

I'm at 3 prayer necklaces now and I finally have enough HP to wade through crowds of enemies like it ain't no big thing

PS - can I just say, I love the NPC reaction to deathblows, where most of the peons back off you for a second because "holy poo poo he just smacked fred's sword out of his hand and cut his heart in half, are you SURE we can take this guy??"

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:02

Regy Rusty: Apr 26, 2010

goblin week posted:

I discovered an amazing strat for the Corrupted Monk that basically let me beat her second try with it

You should spoiler the rest of your post but holy poo poo that's cool and makes sense, I didn't even think of trying that.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:03

Miss Mowcher: Jul 24, 2007; Ribbit

Andrast posted:

Getting some prayer bead upgrades helps a ton. He's really fragile at the beginning.

One upgrade in both health and damage and I can�t even see the difference.

:negative:

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:04

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

guts and bolts posted:

Do we have to post credentials before we can talk about this game's difficulty? I got the Platinum trophy in all the Dark Souls games plus DLC and Bloodborne. I just finished Dante Must Die S ranking DMC5. I like challenging games quite a bit.

Sekiro's problems, as I see them, are twofold.

First, the game is essentially a stealth game at its core, and any time a stealth game locks you in a room with a beefy damage sponge and just says "Good luck," it feels like the rug has been pulled out from under you somewhat. The verticality disappears, you lose access to a small suite of your arsenal of techniques, and the "kill cleverly" axiom vanishes. This feels lame, especially since damage is so high that frequently you don't even have time to learn attack patterns before you are ruthlessly slain with no opportunity to do what a ninja should do and escape.

The second problem ties into the first. Direct combat in this game is incredibly binary. You either play perfectly, or close to it, and the encounter feels trivial, or you make maybe two mistakes? and then get trapped in a cock-up cascade that renders the fight essentially unwinnable. This is most pronounced early on, which to me is emblematic of poor balance. Sekiro is at its hardest right near start, chiefly when you first attempt to take on Genichiro at Ashina Castle, and that specific boss seems like a litmus test for whether or not you will have the patience to finish the game.

I have personally not given up or quit or bounced off or whatever, and I'm probably going to Plat this game as well since I'm over halfway done doing so, but there have been stretches of game where I am just not having fun. It's too punishing too early.

What's more, there's a pervasive sense, owing to the fact that there's three different core dodge/deflect mechanics, that each boss effectively has a solution that you adhere to or die. ("This boss does a lot of thrusts, Mikiri Counter" or "This boss does a lot of sweeps, jump kick" is a highly simplified version of what I'm talking about.) So instead of killing ingeniously, as the tagline suggests, you wind up having to figure out what the game wants you to do via insane amounts of trial and error. You largely don't tackle bosses with creativity - you figure out the one solution and employ it. Or, as is the case with the boss at the end of reception room in Hirata Estate, exploiting the gently caress out of them in a way that doesn't feel very satisfying. For reference, anyone struggling with Lady Butterfly, you can wholly ignore 90% of her fight's mechanics by doing the Nightjar Slash over and over and over and over.

I don't think the game is bad, per se, but I understand why people find it incredibly frustrating. It's basically DESIGNED to be incredibly frustrating. I don't think that's a good thing. If specific bosses, especially earlier on, got their damage dealt reduced significantly, I wouldn't be shocked. I actually think it might be good for the game.

My two cents.

Im way behind but I just want to say that for bosses supposedly having a particular way to beat them I really don't agree. Against the ape I mostly used Dodge or sprint even in the final phase and sprint is hugely underrated generally as a way to fight any boss with a wide open arena

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:04

Skypie: Sep 28, 2008

Regy Rusty posted:

Is that your third main boss? If so definitely skip for now that's firmly a later game fight

Your Computer posted:

you're "intended" to do that boss quite a bit later, so don't worry about it

I did it as my third boss and it basically required a full 10 minutes of not messing up while slowly chipping it down

Ok I'll give it a shot later then.

...after I try the advice from goblin week... :ninja:

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:06

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

ZZZorcerer posted:

One upgrade in both health and damage and I can�t even see the difference.

It helps to angle the camera so that it's lined up against something to compare it to, because yeah, it doesn't look like much? but after a couple it helps a bunch.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:06

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

man i haven�t even found a place that starts with m

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:07

ymgve: Jan 2, 2004; Offensive Clock

Finished the game! Though I got the bad ending, which I guess means I missed out on a whole area. Now, whether to start NG or NG+...

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:07

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

This game is absolutely too hard at the start due to lack of healing + taking 1/2 shots and dying

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:07

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Cowcaster posted:

man i haven�t even found a place that starts with m

Mount Kongo

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:07

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Your Computer posted:

as for multiple enemies, ideally you just... don't. You're a shinobi! Use your stealth, take out the enemies before they get a chance to spot you. There's no shame in running and hiding if things get hairy. Even regular mooks deal so much damage in this game that if you're fighting multiple enemies you can really get clowned on.

This has been my approach so far, but it's frankly kind of exhausting constantly having to be aware of where everyone is and slowly picking them off so I was hoping that I'm just being dumb and that if I played better I could just run up and directly engage dudes.

I like stealthing around and picking guys off the first time I explore an area, but I imagine I'll be having to traverse areas multiple times to redo boss fights and what have you.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:07

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

Jose posted:

Mount Kongo

that�s senpou temple, mount kongo :colbert:

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:08

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Ytlaya posted:

This has been my approach so far, but it's frankly kind of exhausting constantly having to be aware of where everyone is and slowly picking them off so I was hoping that I'm just being dumb and that if I played better I could just run up and directly engage dudes.

I like stealthing around and picking guys off the first time I explore an area, but I imagine I'll be having to traverse areas multiple times to redo boss fights and what have you.

Unless its clearing to a mini boss just sprint past those groups

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:08

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

When I play a souls game for the first time I kill everything on my way through but in this its just proven too hard in places so I just sprint through collecting what I can until I reach the next idol. Since levelling up isn't really a thing I feel less compelled to kill everything

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:10

Funky Valentine: Feb 26, 2014; Dojyaa~an

Jose posted:

This game is absolutely too hard at the start due to lack of healing + taking 1/2 shots and dying

Sekiro with the first health upgrade and deathblow rally seems to be what the early game was actually balanced around, because it was goddamn miserable before them.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:10

goblin week: Jan 26, 2019; Absolute clown.

Regy Rusty posted:

You should spoiler the rest of your post but holy poo poo that's cool and makes sense, I didn't even think of trying that.

Sorry, I got excited :shobon:

It was an eureka moment I got from watching strategy videos I couldn't pull off, and noticed that everyone refers to the non-trailer form as "illusory". I don't think any other From game made me feel like this since I got on the Souls wagon relatively late and all the cool strategies and lifehacks were already thought of.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:11

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Ytlaya posted:

This has been my approach so far, but it's frankly kind of exhausting constantly having to be aware of where everyone is and slowly picking them off so I was hoping that I'm just being dumb and that if I played better I could just run up and directly engage dudes.

I like stealthing around and picking guys off the first time I explore an area, but I imagine I'll be having to traverse areas multiple times to redo boss fights and what have you.

well, even when you just want to get past an area to redo a boss fight or something you still gotta remember that you're a shinobi :v:

Grapple, sneak and run and hide past the enemies works just as well when you're just avoiding them.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:11

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

goblin week posted:

Sorry, I got excited

It was an eureka moment I got from watching strategy videos I couldn't pull off, and noticed that everyone refers to the non-trailer form as "illusory". I don't think any other From game made me feel like this since I got on the Souls wagon relatively late and all the cool strategies and lifehacks were already thought of.

I'm definitely going to try that out on my second playthrough

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:12

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

It�s weird because I don�t really get parrying and it seems really important as posture damage ends fights way quicker than chewing through their health bar.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:16

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

CharlestheHammer posted:

It�s weird because I don�t really get parrying and it seems really important as posture damage ends fights way quicker than chewing through their health bar.

sprinting to hit people with charge attacks before running away again is very effective

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:17

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

btw for anyone struggling with clearing out the trash before seven spears you can hide under the building in the area so people reset

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:20

runaway dog: Dec 11, 2005; I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

I'd argue that the death penalty is much more forgiving since you can bank skill points, where you can totally lose multiple levels worth of souls in souls.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:20

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

by the way, people were wondering what the point of the "flip behind a posture broken enemy" skill is:
it lets you get backstabs instead of normal deathblows, because ninjutsu only works with backstabs. so you can use stuff like the puppet zombie ninjutsu on enemies after beating them in a headon fight instead of stealth killing them.

4000 Dollar Suit posted:

I'd argue that the death penalty is much more forgiving since you can bank skill points, where you can totally lose multiple levels worth of souls in souls.

you can also bank those levels in souls by actually leveling up, though. which you're gonna be wanting to do once you have tons of souls. and picking up your bloodstain gives you everything back

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:21

veni veni veni: Jun 5, 2005

has anyone run into any major brick walls? Not like, just getting stuck on a boss, but getting stuck on a boss with nowhere else to go? I keep fearing that's gonna happen, but so far every time I think I've hit a major hurdle I find somewhere else to explore or somewhere to return to take something else on. I guess that's pretty par for the course in Souls games so I don't know why I expected otherwise. But I'm still scared I'm just gonna hit some boss I can't beat with no other way to progress. I guess my brain still isn't used to not having jolly co-op to fall back on if push comes to shove. It kind of makes me play with this fog of intimidation all the time lol.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:22

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Is "spiriting Kotaro away" delivering him to the Abandoned Dungeon dude, because I don't wanna do that.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:22

Regy Rusty: Apr 26, 2010

Jose posted:

btw for anyone struggling with clearing out the trash before seven spears you can hide under the building in the area so people reset

Oh man are people doing that? You don't even need to kill anyone except maybe the two past the building and you can do that with stealth. Just follow the path you took at the beginning of the game and you end up behind him with no one aggroed.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:22

Jack-Off Lantern: Mar 2, 2012

I killed a Cthulhu in a misty forest,can I continue further despite not having killed Ashina at the castle yet? I reached a locked door in gun fort,so that way is out

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:22

Deformed Church: May 12, 2012; 5'5", IQ 81

Which direction is "progress" from the Senpou Temple Main Hall idol? The only way onwards I can find is through some doors out and then into a cave, where the only way forward I can find takes me up to an esoteric text and not a lot else, and the only fork I can see is taking me on an alternate loop through the cave. I can't see any obvious forks nearby from the direction I arrived here. There is a set of doors on the other half of the temple that say they can be opened from the other side but that's obviously blocked for now. Is this just a dead end until I can open those doors (which I assume is a shortcut for later) or is there somewhere else I can go here?

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:23

Regy Rusty: Apr 26, 2010

Arist posted:

Is "spiriting Kotaro away" delivering him to the Abandoned Dungeon dude, because I don't wanna do that.

Nope.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:23

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Arist posted:

Is "spiriting Kotaro away" delivering him to the Abandoned Dungeon dude, because I don't wanna do that.

no, it'll be extremely obvious what it is once you have the option

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:23

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# ? May 18, 2024 16:43

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

veni veni veni posted:

has anyone run into any major brick walls? Not like, just getting stuck on a boss, but getting stuck on a boss with nowhere else to go? I keep fearing that's gonna happen but so far every time I think I've hit a major hurdle I find somewhere else to explore or somewhere to return to take something else on. I guess that's pretty par for the course in Souls games so I don't know why I expected otherwise. But I'm still scared I'm just gonna hit some boss I can't beat with no other way to progress. I guess my brain still isn't used to not having jolly co-op to fall back on if push comes to shove.

Genichiro on the top of Ashina castle is probably the big gateway boss. Pass that and the game opens up again, but until you do, there's just not really any way left to properly progress.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 22:23

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