|
A UBI in a vacuum would be an improvement. But it would be implemented by Democrats, who have to reach-across-the-aisle by pairing it with Medicaid, SNAP, VA and welfare cuts, then Republicans will get in and cut/remove the UBI.
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:58 |
|
|
Well, my understanding is that "in a vacuum," UBI would be quickly swallowed up by rent. It's also necessary to exterminate the landlord class.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 19:28
|
|
|
World War Mammories posted:that's founder of 8chan fredrick brennan. he's severely deformed due to brittle bone disease I'm sure the Nazi state he wants would be real great to him
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 19:36
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Well, my understanding is that "in a vacuum," UBI would be quickly swallowed up by rent. It's also necessary to exterminate the landlord class. The only way UBI can work is if it automatically and exponentially increases the taxes on the wealthy every time it loses purchasing power. That way landlords get beaten into submission by other landlords until the price of rent reaches equilibrium, etc. Win/win.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 19:39
|
|
|
I hope all the farmers starve, unironically
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 19:55
|
|
|
if there was ubi I’d quit my job and start doing purse snatching or liquor store robberies to make up the difference.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 20:06
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Well, my understanding is that "in a vacuum," UBI would be quickly swallowed up by rent. It's also necessary to exterminate the landlord class. this concern (along with the uncharacteristic enthusiasm for the idea from centrist anti-welfare types), is why i remain pretty skeptical of ubi as a practical policy for improving the lives of the poor if we ever really get to the point where tech makes ~50% of people perpetually unemployable i have full confidence a robust and successful ubi would be enacted by popular demand. but as i've said in the past, it's much more likely the wealthy will create useless servile jobs for those people which function as a marker of elite social status. (also, tech gets overhyped and low-skill" in-person service jobs are a lot harder to replace with robots than people acknowledge)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:They aren't going to get their ethnostate and Trump turned out to just be another piece of poo poo plutocrat so they jumped on board with a techno-liberalish-libertarianish-candidate who promised them $1000/month to sit around smoking weed and playing videogames. imo some of them could be brought to bernie whether or not this is desirable is another question, i suppose. i'm not sure that i want to write them off yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 21:45
|
|
|
DONT THREAD ON ME posted:imo some of them could be brought to bernie yeah trade the low information voters for white nationalists, bernie 2020!
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
DONT THREAD ON ME posted:imo some of them could be brought to bernie i think most of them are just in it for the 'lulz'. like, they have no ideologies beyond trolling and triggering people and trump was the candidate for that. it will always be easier for them to switch to a new candidate than support an incumbent, because none of the over the top poo poo the meme candidate promises (locking her up, banning circumcision) will ever come to fruition obviously, last cycle some who started in it for the trolling got converted to full blown white supremacists, but they're not voting yang, so maybe this cycle some of the trolls will be converted towards some form of leftist politics at least
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:this concern (along with the uncharacteristic enthusiasm for the idea from centrist anti-welfare types), is why i remain pretty skeptical of ubi as a practical policy for improving the lives of the poor They’ll probably kill a lot of people through neglect. Remember that the environment is going to become inhospitable to humans over the next 50 years.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 22:02
|
|
|
Yeah, UBI as a cure-all is proposed by rich guys who are quite honest about wanting to fix the status quo instead of changing it. As long as profit is sacrosanct, we're stuck in a race to the bottom that can only end in extinction event level climate change.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
MMT is where it's at.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 22:43
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I'm sure the Nazi state he wants would be real great to him iirc he stated he should have been euthanized so I guess he’s cool with it
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 22:49
|
|
|
Smirking_Serpent posted:iirc he stated he should have been euthanized so I guess he’s cool with it That's the saddest thing I've ever read.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2019 23:52
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I'm sure the Nazi state he wants would be real great to him Smirking_Serpent posted:iirc he stated he should have been euthanized so I guess he’s cool with it I know he’s written in support of voluntary sterilization for people with severe disabilities, himself included. the guy is a shithead, but I don’t know if I would turn out better in the same situation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Well, my understanding is that "in a vacuum," UBI would be quickly swallowed up by rent. It's also necessary to exterminate the landlord class. it might in rural areas, because it would likely increase demand there since it would be financially easier to live there and cause a bit of a population shift away from the cities if that were the case then urban rents would either be unaffected or drop but just thinking that every single landlord goes WHELP gonna raise rent by exactly as much as the ubi makes about as much sense as thinking the same would happen if the minimum wage was raised to $20/hr or cause hamburger pricing to skyrocket or something
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
World War Mammories posted:I know he’s written in support of voluntary sterilization for people with severe disabilities, himself included. the guy is a shithead, but I don’t know if I would turn out better in the same situation. Wait there's something wrong with voluntary sterilization? Like people with severe disabilities have to have children or something?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 01:29
|
|
|
H.P. Hovercraft posted:it might in rural areas, because it would likely increase demand there since it would be financially easier to live there and cause a bit of a population shift away from the cities it's not as simple as "landlords raise rent by exact amount covered by ubi" but it's also difficult to imagine the economy won't shift towards pricing the ubi into all sorts of regular things, including rent. and y'know, im sure the payday lending industry is salivating at the idea of ubi. that doesn't mean it can't be helpful but it's prob not going to be a magic bullet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 02:47
|
|
|
anyway speaking of possibly questionable impact studies, there's this https://mobile.twitter.com/mcsardo/status/1111370198030913559 warning: to safely enjoy the schadenfreude please refrain from attempting to extrapolate any impact estimates beyond the southern border of the US
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 02:57
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:it's not as simple as "landlords raise rent by exact amount covered by ubi" but it's also difficult to imagine the economy won't shift towards pricing the ubi into all sorts of regular things, including rent. and y'know, im sure the payday lending industry is salivating at the idea of ubi. If you give everyone more money but the price level increases people still are better off because they effectively have more choices. Price levels are also somewhat sticky, so the argument they will just rise is basically bullshit. Seattle, for example, has a 15/hour minimum wages. Lots of people predicted prices would just rise on everything and obliterate the wage increase. They didn't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 03:01
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:If there was ubi I'd probably start a business. i'd start a business that would kick your business's rear end
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 03:22
|
|
|
World War Mammories posted:I know he’s written in support of voluntary sterilization for people with severe disabilities, himself included. the guy is a shithead, but I don’t know if I would turn out better in the same situation. I would probably be like Eric the Midget and call shock jocks demanding they find me porn stars to gently caress in exchange for me being a huge embarrassment to my entire family.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 03:27
|
|
|
Smirking_Serpent posted:iirc he stated he should have been euthanized so I guess he’s cool with it so supporting neo-nazis is an elaborate suicide method???
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:people with severe disabilities have to have children the future liberals want
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
we need six figgie UBI and also matter compilers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:it's not as simple as "landlords raise rent by exact amount covered by ubi" but it's also difficult to imagine the economy won't shift towards pricing the ubi into all sorts of regular things, including rent. and y'know, im sure the payday lending industry is salivating at the idea of ubi. UBI would only really work in a country/worldwide way in concert with a whole lot of consumer protection laws, dismantling of the profit motive for things like healthcare, housing, and food, and so on. It has to be *part* of an entire overhaul of the entire system.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 04:06
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:so supporting neo-nazis is an elaborate suicide method???
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 05:40
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:yeah trade the low information voters for white nationalists, bernie 2020! There's a difference???
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 06:26
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:it's not as simple as "landlords raise rent by exact amount covered by ubi" but it's also difficult to imagine the economy won't shift towards pricing the ubi into all sorts of regular things, including rent. and y'know, im sure the payday lending industry is salivating at the idea of ubi. It's not a magic bullet but casting "bind to inflation and increases in productivity/GDP" makes it much closer to one. Since conservatives are assholes and according to them productivity gains are only allowed to go to those already controlling the economy that would never happen. Of course if the federal government would have done that with minimum wage we'd be in much less of this mess in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
I like the idea of UBI, but the fact that some of the biggest advocates are the tech industry moguls gives me a pause. I'm afraid that they'd use it as an excuse to lobby to roll back labor protections, cut wages, keep pushing poo poo like unpaid internships.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 06:51
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:I like the idea of UBI, but the fact that some of the biggest advocates are the tech industry moguls gives me a pause. I'm afraid that they'd use it as an excuse to lobby to roll back labor protections, cut wages, keep pushing poo poo like unpaid internships. So.... It's not any different than what they're doing now?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 07:07
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:it's not as simple as "landlords raise rent by exact amount covered by ubi" but it's also difficult to imagine the economy won't shift towards pricing the ubi into all sorts of regular things, including rent. and y'know, im sure the payday lending industry is salivating at the idea of ubi. this kind of argument stems from a zero-sum sort of assumption though, if the poor were richer than they are it might work out that way, but in the us at least ubi would be almost certain to stimulate the economy in a way where everyone not only becomes $1k/month richer, but on average significantly more than that the matter of rent may also not be as dire as imagined. if you live in sf sure it'll do nothing, but such a redistribution would allow spreading people out a lot more (e.g. revitalizing otherwise dying towns where real estate is otherwise borderline worthless). i have a lot of doubts about ubi as noted, but i do think the "it'll just cause inflation and do nothing" is a piece of bootstrap propaganda that has taken hold without *that* clear a basis
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 11:22
|
|
|
Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:warning: to safely enjoy the schadenfreude please refrain from attempting to extrapolate any impact estimates beyond the southern border of the US
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 11:49
|
|
|
The problem is landlords and rent seekers, not UBI. Thousand bucks and a 12 gauge
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 13:05
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I'm sure the Nazi state he wants would be real great to him he has literally admitted that he would be liquidated under a proper eugenicist regime World War Mammories posted:I know he’s written in support of voluntary sterilization for people with severe disabilities, himself included. the guy is a shithead, but I don’t know if I would turn out better in the same situation. im pretty confident that i would have turned our better because i have values beyond that of assembling a hierarchy of uber and untermensch. and i justify my leftist egalitarian ideology with the cold blooded rationalization that i am a fragile meatbag that can have all physical ability wiped out in an instance were i to be in a car accident, and so things like universal healthcare and welfare systems and disability rights are all handy insurance schemes for anyone with a functioning sense of judgement
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 13:09
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:I like the idea of UBI, but the fact that some of the biggest advocates are the tech industry moguls gives me a pause. I'm afraid that they'd use it as an excuse to lobby to roll back labor protections, cut wages, keep pushing poo poo like unpaid internships. My assumption would be that a proper ubi, that is to say one that allows for disengagement from work while still affording the necessities, would increase labor power because one would not have to fear retaliation for labor agitation. Like, if Jimmy Johns wants to fire you for trying to start a union or demanding additional payment or benefits, gently caress em. People could quit rather than accept a pay cut. At least in theory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 13:31
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:I like the idea of UBI, but the fact that some of the biggest advocates are the tech industry moguls gives me a pause. I'm afraid that they'd use it as an excuse to lobby to roll back labor protections, cut wages, keep pushing poo poo like unpaid internships. to some extent though i think the more aware titans of industry are getting to be notice that a larger and larger portion of the population have too insecure a financial basis to be a good consumer of their products/services that can in and of itself be framed as a counterrevolutionary play, but it is one which both in reasons and outcome actually aligns with rather socialist perspectives e: i mean, it is basically a trivial truth for the heads of netflix that *most* people with some free time and $10 to spare a month will in fact give it to them, and people getting screwed over by health insurance, having to work multiple minimum-wage jobs and so on is actually taking away money they could easily be making Cybernetic Vermin has issued a correction as of 14:33 on Mar 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 14:30
|
|
|
TotalLossBrain posted:the future liberals want yet from the voting populace, the republicans are benefiting the most from that lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:58 |
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:I literally went "so is that southern hemisphere or can I safely enjoy the word Southern" in my head, so thank you if you click through the thread has maps https://mobile.twitter.com/mcsardo/status/1111370199108710400
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2019 16:17
|
|