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I hope the documentary interviewed award-winning videogame director Akihiro Hino and how his terrible story nearly killed off the whole franchise.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:04
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I just want to know what hell has Tomino so mad about Doan’s Island.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:07
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He's an elderly and confused person, much like George Lucas, Ridley Scott and Francis Ford Coppola.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:43
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Ka0 posted:He's an elderly and confused person, much like George Lucas, Ridley Scott and Francis Ford Coppola. He’s hated it for a long time before he was old, though.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:47
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Raxivace posted:I just want to know what hell has Tomino so mad about Doan’s Island. I was actually listening to a podcast that talked about it a couple months back. Before seeing the episode for the first time, the hosts wondered too. After, they were pretty sure they knew why. (It's because it sucks.)
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Apr 8, 2019 00:28
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Ka0 posted:Divers has a thing over Try in that they do not reuse the water-drop JigenHaoh-- poo poo every drat episode to pad out those minutes. It instead padded them out with everyone pointing out how good Riku is and how much they should all follow Riku's example. I'm not sure which I prefer, even considering how Try also liked to point out how good Sekai was. At least Sekai had a personality, boring as it was, Riku didn't even have that.
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Apr 8, 2019 00:57
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chiasaur11 posted:Not in love. If I didn't have mountains of shows I was trying to get through, I might go further, but for now, it's low in the pile. As someone else pointed out, episode two aired alongside episode one originally. Which was presumably pre-planned, so Tomino may have accounted for that in the direction of the episodes. CMD598 posted:The last one was actually a reference to Odessa Then it's inaccurate, because the commentator makes it clear that the Federation were only able to hold Zeon to a stalemate on Earth prior to the TV show, despite Zeon not having a lot of mobile suits on Earth at the time (Garma used Dopps, Gaws and Magellans) and the big change at Odessa was the inclusion of the White Base and project V units. Tanks and planes didn't nearly boot mobile suits off Earth; they just held them back, despite Zeon not having any flying mobile suits capable of fighting planes on equal footing. CMD598 posted:I guess I could have thrown in that time a bunch of dudes on hover bikes trolled amuro, 08th team with shoulder fired rocket launchers, or that time in Zeta a mobile suit got taken out by a plane crashing into it, or that dude in Unicorn who carries rocket launchers for a sidearm and there's more You could also have throw in all the times mobile suits handily defeated tanks and the times they defeated planes mid-air with little issue, despite the fact that a lot of the times that mobile suits faced planes in the air the mobile suits were saddled with the notable handicap of not being able to fly. The Gundam and Guncannon tore Gaws apart like they were made of tissue paper in 0079 for instance, even when they were having to free-fall or jump between Gaws because neither were capable of flight and sublifters weren't a thing. Dopps and Magella tanks rarely fared much better. Doan was able to use a Zaku II to defeat some Saberfish and the core fighter despite having no weapons besides whatever rocks it happened across, and it not having been properly serviced for what appears to be months. As for the the mobile suit being taken out by a plane crashing in to it in Zeta? You could also keep going and mention that the main, if not only, reason that it worked was because the plane wasn't noticed and that the plane did only superficial damage despite launching a full speed ramming attack without the mobile suit's knowledge. The Unicorn example is even worse, presuming you're talking about Daguza, given that all the rocket he launched against the Sinanju managed was to take off some paint. But sure, keep mentioning them if you want. CMD598 posted:I don't even have to stay in uc to get more. I specifically referred to the original UC shows and movies, so I'm not sure why you'd go to other settings anyway. CMD598 posted:And lol unpopular, igloo had three series, a manga, and various other spin offs. Besides pointing out that those three series totaled 9 episodes and a shorter runtime than most one-season OVAs, as well as it's low polling placement it's also worth pointing out that IGLOO used fairly low quality and presumably rather cheap animation, and perhaps most importantly that IGLOO never resulted in a lot of Gunpla. Which is one of the core ways popularity is measured for Gundam. Ka0 posted:You can make build divers try an incredible series by simply deleting Riku from it. The easiest fix imaginable. All of the adult characters that were brushed thin could be further developed. That's not "just" deleting Riku though; it's writing the rest of the cast half decently, because it's just as likely if you deleted Riku that some other character would end up just as central and boring as Riku had been. I have an even easier fix: write one character (i.e. Riku) better. Ka0 posted:I hope the documentary interviewed award-winning videogame director Akihiro Hino and how his terrible story nearly killed off the whole franchise. That's not even remotely true. One entry tanking is never going to kill a franchise as big as Gundam. Especially when ratings have been dropping across the board with years by the time AGE released. AGE was poo poo, but not even close to "nearly killed the franchise poo poo". Besides, people online often accuse Tomino of the same rubbish because of Turn A. Which also had low ratings. Very few Gundam shows actually have better ratings than preceding shows and most of the recent ones have worse ratings than AGE from what I gather. Including G-Reco and IBO. Ratings aren't the be-all, end-all though, both because streaming and recording have to be accounted for nowadays and because gunpla sales are just as important, if not more so. chiasaur11 posted:(It's because it sucks.) I actually quite like the episode, simply because it humanizes Zeon soldiers. The whole "mobile suit martial arts" thing is a silly concept that doesn't really fit with the setting, and the writing could have been better but on the whole I quite liked it. Anyway, I was also wondering if anyone here can speak Japanese and is willing to check something for me? I got in to a discussion with someone on /m/ about AMBAC (something that came up here a few pages back), and after they mentioned that it was actually mentioned during several UC shows I went and checked the scripts for all of them I have to hand (0079 TV, 0079 movies, Zeta TV, Zeta movies, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, F91, Victory, 08th MS Team, 0080 and 0083). Balancers or autobalancers are mentioned a few times in Zeta, ZZ and 0083 but seem to relate to centre of balance given the context; however AMBAC is actually mentioned once during the first 0079 movie. The problem is in context it doesn't really make a lot of sense, with someone off screen telling Char through a loudspeaker that the Zaku II AMBAC system is ready to drop. Why would a maneuvering system centered on user controlled movement need preparation? The word AMBAC is included in both subs on the film though, as well as in the English dub so I'm wondering if it's accurate basically. The original audio mentions the word balance there, so there's definitely something akin to it being mentioned regardless, but is it just that the translation of AMBAC is correct but the phrasing is poor? Is it a case of the word being included due to the familiarity much of the fandom has with it? etc. There's no announcement during the same scene in the TV show, so it was only included for the movie. The scene in question is at around the 1 hour, 29 minute mark in movie one and takes place just before Char launches before betraying Garma if anyone who speaks some Japanese wants to clarify this, or is curious themselves. I made a webm of the scene here, since it might make it easier to place it if anyone does want to volunteer. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 01:01
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Raxivace posted:I just want to know what hell has Tomino so mad about Doan’s Island. I remember in an old interview he was once asked about it and he gave a vague answer about how there's an interesting reason behind it but he didn't want to say why as long as a certain person was still alive. Makes me wonder if someone just needs to ask him again.
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Apr 8, 2019 01:32
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Blaze Dragon posted:It instead padded them out with everyone pointing out how good Riku is and how much they should all follow Riku's example. I'm not sure which I prefer, even considering how Try also liked to point out how good Sekai was. At least Sekai had a personality, boring as it was, Riku didn't even have that. Not really. I just went back and watched the whole thing again because I hated it the first time around. Not only that, the instances where I thought I remembered all the Riku praising did not happen. There's a poignant latter episode where Riku's buddy and the Ogre's kid brother must navigate an obstacle course on their own, precisely on the erroneous assumption that one has to be "more like Riku" and "as strong as his older brother". Sekai didn't even get an arc, he starts out the series as a martial artist who speaks through his punches, straight out of the generic shonen handbook, and ends that way. They don't show us him getting closer to Fumina, they don't show us him learning to build gunpla with Shia and they don't show us him growin passionate about gunpla. Riku on the other hand builds his own kit, goes on battles online, loses a bunch, wins some, improves his piloting and fighting style from playing soccer in school, goes on a duel irl with the edgelord and gets his rear end handed to him, but for a good reason, rescues Ayame's former force buddies' gunpla, falls for the anime loli in game and even stands up to her. Terrible as his character is, he had more to do than just punching people and moving on because of plot. _____ / goonsay
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Apr 8, 2019 02:17
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Ka0 posted:I hope the documentary interviewed award-winning videogame director Akihiro Hino and how his terrible story nearly killed off the whole franchise. It didn't even come close to killing off the franchise. It bombed hard, yes, but Unicorn was doing well at the same time, so it basically was a wash. Bandai said as much in interviews. It was disappointing, since Bandai wanted to pick up new fans instead of just getting more sales to the older ones, but it was no real harm, despite the mountains of poorly selling merch. As for ratings, I think that IBO's numbers being either pretty standard or really low depending on who you ask comes down to if you're doing live or live plus three. The live plus three numbers are about on level with the 90s shows. The raw live numbers are down to about half that. It's the best explanation I can find to how you can get such different extrapolations working from the same base data.
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Apr 8, 2019 02:29
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chiasaur11 posted:I was actually listening to a podcast that talked about it a couple months back. If that was Mobile Suit Breakdown, this weekend's episode got me to finally track down the 52-episode plan for First Gundam. quote:Gihren sends Char some reinforcements - a batch of the new Mobile Suit "Galbaldy" (again, Okawara drew this up after the fact) and the "semi-esper" youth Paccadelia, one of Challia Bull's hand-me-downs. When battle is joined, Amuro and Lalah enter a Newtype mind-meld (as in the broadcast series), but in this version their rapport is disrupted by Paccadelia, who thinks Lalah is consorting with the enemy and blows her up. What if the single most important aspect of Char and Amuro's rivalry depended on a little shitbird mook? HitTheTargets fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 9, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 02:37
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Look just let me irrationally hate on Level 5's dumb layton games and their garbage tier gundam story which caused tons of gunpla kits go unsold and Bandai going premium service for future releases.
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Apr 8, 2019 02:59
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Ka0 posted:Not really. I just went back and watched the whole thing again because I hated it the first time around. Not only that, the instances where I thought I remembered all the Riku praising did not happen. There's a poignant latter episode where Riku's buddy and the Ogre's kid brother must navigate an obstacle course on their own, precisely on the erroneous assumption that one has to be "more like Riku" and "as strong as his older brother". Sekai didn't even get an arc, he starts out the series as a martial artist who speaks through his punches, straight out of the generic shonen handbook, and ends that way. They don't show us him getting closer to Fumina, they don't show us him learning to build gunpla with Shia and they don't show us him growin passionate about gunpla. Agreed. Generic as he is Riku still had self-motivated drives and goals. Sekai just followed anyone who told him to do something like a puppy and was about half as smart. Even the stuff about all the high-end players taking an interest in Riku at least functionally works; they're playing a game and it's nice to see new blood put effort in. Sekai... just exists for others to slapfight eachother over who gets to fight/fawn over him. The worst part of that is he doesn't even really acknowledge or engage with those premises as a character.
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Apr 8, 2019 11:43
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Gripweed posted:It still blows my mind that they didn't have a single character revealed to be humorously different from their online avatar. This is like, a running thing in anime stories based around MMOs. So many of them present a super awesome VR world where you can be whatever the hell you want....and then the protagonist(s) are almost universally just their normal boring-rear end real life self, but maybe with a different hair color or some cat ears. The ones where the protagonist(s) aren't just themselves in the VR world, like Overlord or GGO, them being something different is like a central driving point behind their character instead of just an incidental character detail.
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Apr 8, 2019 12:16
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Kanos posted:This is like, a running thing in anime stories based around MMOs. So many of them present a super awesome VR world where you can be whatever the hell you want....and then the protagonist(s) are almost universally just their normal boring-rear end real life self, but maybe with a different hair color or some cat ears. The ones where the protagonist(s) aren't just themselves in the VR world, like Overlord or GGO, them being something different is like a central driving point behind their character instead of just an incidental character detail. Because they're fundamentally TV shows, it's not that bad a trope for a central/recurring cast. It just creates a consistent look so the audience can tell who is which avatar at a glance. That said, it still totally doesn't hold true for Build Divers where it was supposed to be a big deal getting to see what all their online friends actually look like in real life.
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Apr 8, 2019 13:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Because they're fundamentally TV shows, it's not that bad a trope for a central/recurring cast. It just creates a consistent look so the audience can tell who is which avatar at a glance. Yeah, that's kind of one of my points. They make a big deal out of meeting Ayame and she's literally just the same person in real life except in a schoolgirl outfit instead of an anime ninja getup.
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Apr 8, 2019 13:32
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Kanos posted:Yeah, that's kind of one of my points. They make a big deal out of meeting Ayame and she's literally just the same person in real life except in a schoolgirl outfit instead of an anime ninja getup. No, Ayame works fine as-is because she has to be a recurring character in and out of the MMO for half the show. It's one of those "assume the audience are dumb" things, and it's a quick shorthand for anyone looking at an episode at-random to figure out just who the extra girl in the group probably is.
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Apr 8, 2019 13:45
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No, Ayame works fine as-is because she has to be a recurring character in and out of the MMO for half the show. It's one of those "assume the audience are dumb" things, and it's a quick shorthand for anyone looking at an episode at-random to figure out just who the extra girl in the group probably is. I think it sort of wastes the entire point of pushing a world where you can be anything you want to be for characters to just be themselves in the first place, and visually lazy/creatively bankrupt to boot - why bother pushing your awesome total-freedom-virtual-world(which Divers pushed incredibly hard early on!) if you're not going to use it for anything? If a character is a continual and constant presence in the show you don't really need visual shorthand to know who they are; no one watching GGO gets confused that Karen is LLENN despite the characters looking entirely different. GGO is a good example here, actually; literally every character in that show looks substantially different in and out of game, which provides more visual variety and lets the character designers flex their muscles. If Riku's avatar was, say, Rommel or Doggo Martial Artist, there would be a brief confusion of "wait Riku that's your character" followed by that just being the norm for anyone watching the show. We have enough scenes both in and out of the game that it's not really a difficult ask. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 15:14
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There's ways to visually connect the two characters if your worried that the audience will be confused. Just with colors or details it's pretty easy to establish a link between the avatar and the person. Or make the online version a representation of some aspect of the real person. Like, a small unassuming person who looks meek but is actually really angry and aggressive on the inside could play as a giant demon monster.
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Apr 8, 2019 16:17
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For some reason I'm now thinking of The World Ends With You's bonus chapter where a character shows up looking different from how they should appear according to their backstory and what's going on in the bonus chapter, and I remember it mostly because the game has someone pop in to break the fourth wall to address this. I'm not saying BD needed to do this, but there are ways to associate characters with their online selves without them necessarily being the same. Honestly, though? That was the least of the show's problems.
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Apr 8, 2019 18:05
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Srice posted:I remember in an old interview he was once asked about it and he gave a vague answer about how there's an interesting reason behind it but he didn't want to say why as long as a certain person was still alive. Makes me wonder if someone just needs to ask him again. chiasaur11 posted:(It's because it sucks.)
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Apr 8, 2019 18:26
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This single page on this thread has put forth more thought into build divers' story than its actual screenwriters.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:41
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chiasaur11 posted:As for ratings, I think that IBO's numbers being either pretty standard or really low depending on who you ask comes down to if you're doing live or live plus three. The live plus three numbers are about on level with the 90s shows. The raw live numbers are down to about half that. IBO sold a bunch of model kits worldwide. That's the most important metric. Ka0 posted:Look just let me irrationally hate on Level 5's dumb layton games and their garbage tier gundam story which caused tons of gunpla kits go unsold and Bandai going premium service for future releases. Ironically despite how bad the show was, the age kits were almost universally praised. But gently caress this show for what it did to the mg line.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:51
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https://twitter.com/watchsymphogear/status/1116497998446383104
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Apr 12, 2019 01:46
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Legit was expecting it to be cut with the Top Gun theme.
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Apr 12, 2019 02:40
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Apr 12, 2019 03:50
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Legit was expecting it to be cut with the Top Gun theme. It's been done. But I'll never miss a chance to post this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bhCMoMYXfo
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Apr 12, 2019 07:01
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Man, I know 0083 sucks, but somehow it also owns incredibly hard.
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Apr 12, 2019 16:03
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ANAmal.net posted:Man, I know 0083 sucks, but somehow it also owns incredibly hard. 0083 is weird what with it's absolutely fantastic animation and mecha designs, plus at its core, a pretty cool idea of how the titans were formed thanks to a conspiracy inside the federation, but the characters just drag the entire loving thing down into making it a "meh" show. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 16:09
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Monaghan posted:0083 is such weird what with it's absolutely fantastic animation and mecha designs, plus at its core, a pretty cool idea of how the titans were formed thanks to a conspiracy inside the federation, but the characters just drag the entire loving thing down into making it a "meh" show. I've been meaning to watch it again, but when I was flipping through my Gundam, I discovered that I don't actually have it in my collection. 
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Apr 12, 2019 16:22
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it's good when gato is there, shoulda just been a 70/30 split of delaz poo poo/feddies
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Apr 12, 2019 17:08
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Apr 12, 2019 17:09
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Gato sucks too, imo You dick around with nukes, then you suck. It's a side effect, sorry Gato.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:13
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We can all agree that Nina is the worst, and makes other characters worse in her orbit, right?
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Apr 12, 2019 17:17
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Sure
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Apr 12, 2019 17:18
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Kurieg posted:We can all agree that Nina is the worst, and makes other characters worse in her orbit, right? She's obviously supposed to be Charlie in the Top Gun analogy, but Charlie was actually enjoyable so idk.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:23
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she and kou were made for each other, truly
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Apr 12, 2019 17:34
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I wonder what Kou's particular psychosys is?
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Apr 12, 2019 17:39
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Having a carrot be his copilot.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:48
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Monsha still gets my vote as the worst overall but Nina is def the worst main character.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:55
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