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This is fantastic and I look forward to reading it all over lunch! Thanks!
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May 17, 2019 17:23
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remember when malcolm gladwell tweeted out a quillette article.
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May 17, 2019 17:24
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CuddleCryptid posted:Are you implying that she is wrong in saying that transphobia is rampant in the left? Because that's almost impressively wrong. No, I'm not implying that. Prester Jane posted:If you give unfailing to support to leaders who demonstrate through their actions that they do not have your best interests at heart, then you're nothing but a chump. At some point you will have to come to grips with a very basic question: would you rather have a democrat that doesn't align with your values in power, or a republican? Do you have an answer? Your argument seems to be that without allowing democrats to lose, they will never learn their lesson and we will never have Good Democrats in [the] seat. I am guessing, because I haven't seen you actually flesh out your reasoning before. Maybe I missed it. It'd be real cool and interesting if you could, or link to a post where you did. The argument in the other direction, the reality, is that being unwilling to compromise allows for state houses to become supermajority republican and draconian abortion laws to be signed into legislation. Or SNAP to be defunded and children to go hungry. Or countless good decisions and laws overturned because of a conservative court. Because regardless of how a politician stands on each individual issue, it is a hell of a lot easier to get them to vote in line with the party agenda then it is to cross party lines, and that doesn't look like it's changing any time soon. There's a legit philosophical argument to be made that allowing a political body that does not provide adequate binary resistance to fail, is the longterm greater good; I'd be interested in you actually making it. Or not, whatever.
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May 17, 2019 17:25
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Ogmius815 posted:Yes exactly. If you don’t vote the GOP will win and then the things you want passed will actually fail. The things I want to see passed aren't going to happen with the current Democratic leadership in power either. Thus I agitate for a change in Democratic Leadership. The current temp in attic leadership will only guarantee that America Falls to Fascism, because they are only interested in preserving their own privilege. They have no actual ideology or agenda beyond the preservation of the privilege of America's elite class.
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May 17, 2019 17:26
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Lots of people in here conflating a vote with a sacred blood oath and it's reeeeeeeallly weird.Prester Jane posted:The things I want to see passed aren't going to happen with the current Democratic leadership in power either. Thus I agitate for a change in Democratic Leadership. So are we. Congratulations, we're on the same side after all.
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May 17, 2019 17:27
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Fun fact: Former Soviet Georgia has infinitely more progressive abortion laws. And honestly after last year their democracies are on about the same level of legit. We have the worse Georgia.
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May 17, 2019 17:27
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:remember: representatives demanding unconditional fealty from voters is sensible strategy. It's really weird to see the thread's most prominent, circular argument boiled down to its most abstract talking points. Let's wait to see how the actual vote goes IMO
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May 17, 2019 17:27
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If your rep has a single wrong stance then it is your job as a citizen to tell them to correct that stance. They can hold the office if they are willing to change. Anything else is undemocratic and unamerican.
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May 17, 2019 17:28
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skylined! posted:The argument in the other direction, the reality, is that being unwilling to compromise allows for state houses to become supermajority republican and draconian abortion laws to be signed into legislation. Or SNAP to be defunded and children to go hungry. Or countless good decisions and laws overturned because of a conservative court. Because regardless of how a politician stands on each individual issue, it is a hell of a lot easier to get them to vote in line with the party agenda then it is to cross party lines, and that doesn't look like it's changing any time soon. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/24/18195926/joe-biden-2020-speech-fred-upton thank heaven that the democrats are Sensibly Compromising, to avoid draconian abortion laws being signed into legislation, by actively campaigning for people who promise to pass draconian abortion laws. bad news, friend: crossing party lines is REAL easy for Democrats. because you have established you will never, under any circumstances, punish them for it.
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May 17, 2019 17:28
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Grape posted:Fun fact: Former Soviet Georgia has infinitely more progressive abortion laws. And honestly after last year their democracies are on about the same level of legit. We have the worse Georgia. evangelicals love israel but it has some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/As-abortion-fight-heats-up-in-US-termination-in-Israel-easily-accessible-589923
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May 17, 2019 17:28
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:because politics in a democracy is a question of numbers, op. This is some disingenuous bullshit. No one is saying that they know best, what they are saying is that when the alternative to a bad Democrat is a Republican the bad Democrat is still preferable because they provide power to the good Democrats. AOC, Lee, and all of the good Democrats wouldn't be able to accomplish poo poo if a Republican was the speaker. There wouldn't be an hearings, there wouldn't be any subpoenas to fight over and there wouldn't be any possibility of good things ever happening. Vote your heart in the primary and party in the general is the only demonstrably effective strategy that anyone has ever found for this poo poo. And the more people who get off their asses and vote for good candidates in the Primary the better the eventual outcomes will be, What's your alternative? Sit on your hands and complain? Because that's literally the least effective thing that can be done.
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May 17, 2019 17:30
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Israelis even provides post-natal abortions to Palestinians free of charge.
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May 17, 2019 17:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Seriously did some podcast introduce people to the concept of boots lately or something? I get boot licker is a phrase but there has been a weird uptick in people using weird angry videogame nerd style compound insults that involve boots and it feels like people must be stealing them from a youtube or something since they all sound the same. Like one level of convoluted too many to be a sick burn. No I'm just mocking the ad-homs that people are utilizing on those who aren't going along with their accelerationist nihilism. Prester Jane posted:The things I want to see passed aren't going to happen with the current Democratic leadership in power either. Thus I agitate for a change in Democratic Leadership. That's what the primaries are for, and nobody here is against the idea of primarying ineffective Democrats. CuddleCryptid posted:If your rep has a single wrong stance then it is your job as a citizen to tell them to correct that stance. They can hold the office if they are willing to change. Anything else is undemocratic and unamerican. I wouldn't go so far as the last sentence but yes.
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May 17, 2019 17:31
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Angry_Ed posted:No I'm just mocking the ad-homs that people are utilizing on those who aren't going along with their accelerationist nihilism. accelerationist nihilism (n): the expectation your representatives should represent you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 17, 2019 17:34
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It's clear Trump's immigration plan is intentionally inflammatory for the purpose of signalling to conservatives that he hates foreigners. It's also clear that there's no way it ever gets through the current congress, and talking about it only makes Trump appear more relevant than he is. However this part:Forbes posted:It may be best to ignore the politics and rhetoric around the Trump administration’s new immigration plan and focus on its most relevant part: Under the proposal, more than 4 million people waiting in family and employment-based green card backlogs would have their immigration applications eliminated, even if they have been waiting in line for years to immigrate. The proposal does make sense from the point of view of trying to get rid of foreigners, both legal and illegal. As if the current administration's goals weren't already clear.
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May 17, 2019 17:34
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Angry_Ed posted:I wouldn't go so far as the last sentence but yes. Why not? It's our God drat country. Just because the fashies cloak their hate in a flag doesn't mean that we can still have hope in what America is supposed to stand for. https://twitter.com/HRC/status/1129420097355997184?s=19
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May 17, 2019 17:35
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You can simultaneously think "the bad Democrat in the hell-region voted poorly here, and I do not like that Democrat" and still think the Rep is a better alternative than the GOP. This one seems like a weird one to get hall passes for, though, it's not necessary. The only people opposed to an Equality Act are like Mormon counties and hard-right wonks, so if it doesn't pass purely on party lines, we should probably feel free to call any Dems who voted against it "a huge bozo" or "Bigot McFasherson" or "Poopy pants."
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May 17, 2019 17:37
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1129421844963102726?s=20
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May 17, 2019 17:38
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skylined! posted:No, I'm not implying that. Your question fundamentally misunderstands my criticism so much that what you're asking is basically entirely irrelevant to the point I'm making. The present Democratic party isn't going to do anything more for minorities than the absolute minimal token gestures they have to. You're asking this frog if I would rather be boiled slowly or quickly, because those are the only real two choices available to me now with the present Democratic Leadership in place. The Democrats aren't going to fix anything, they're only going to ameliorate the pace at which things are worsening by a moderate amount. quote:
Constantly betraying your base depresses your base, decreases voter turnout, and strengthens the Republican side. Modern elections are all about turning out the bass, not about winning over moderates. Your strategy actually is the one that enables the precipitous and disastrous rise of GOP strongholds, because your strategy depresses turn out amongst the Democratic base. Because modern elections are all about turning out the base there is no actual strategic purpose served by the Democrats constantly hewing as far to the right as they can. The real purpose is because they have been completely captured by corporate interests, and pretending that they have to give the corporation's whatever they want in order to hold on to power is the bullshit illusion that you are buying into.
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May 17, 2019 17:40
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/24/18195926/joe-biden-2020-speech-fred-upton If Biden wins, a refusal to vote for him is tacit approval of an out-and-out fascist winning again and the further erosion of our democracy, as well as millions (more) vulnerable people losing their rights and their lives. Fascism is here. The long game of refusing to give your vote to the lesser of two evils means it is more likely that more people immediately suffer from fascism. You are admitting you are OK with that, because your personal political philosophy is that the immediate suffering of those most negatively affected by this fascist administration will be worth the longterm gains in persuading a political entity to go through a realignment. The only other implication to take from your argument is that you think both democrats and republicans are essentially the same. And while there is plenty of evidence to show that they both serve monied interests, democrats have actually passed good and meaningful legislation that has legitimately helped people.
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May 17, 2019 17:43
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Bicyclops posted:You can simultaneously think "the bad Democrat in the hell-region voted poorly here, and I do not like that Democrat" and still think the Rep is a better alternative than the GOP. This one seems like a weird one to get hall passes for, though, it's not necessary. The only people opposed to an Equality Act are like Mormon counties and hard-right wonks, so if it doesn't pass purely on party lines, we should probably feel free to call any Dems who voted against it "a huge bozo" or "Bigot McFasherson" or "Poopy pants." It passed 236-173 https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4798258/house-approves-lbgtq-anti-discrimination-bill-236-173 quote:Eight Republicans joined all Democrats in voting for the measure. They were: Susan Brooks (IN), Mario Diaz-Balart (FL), Brian Fitzpatrick (PA), Will Hurd (TX), John Katko (NY), Tom Reed (NY), Elise Stefanik (NY), Greg Walden (OR).
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May 17, 2019 17:46
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The best https://mobile.twitter.com/RepPressley/status/1129197175030861824
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May 17, 2019 17:47
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skylined! posted:It passed 236-173 Good. Man, how hosed does your political party have to be that only eight people vote for this? It's sweepingly popular.
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May 17, 2019 17:48
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Bicyclops posted:Good. Man, how hosed does your political party have to be that only eight people vote for this? It's sweepingly popular. That's kind of their thing
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May 17, 2019 17:49
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skylined! posted:If Biden wins, a refusal to vote for him is tacit approval of an out-and-out fascist winning again and the further erosion of our democracy, as well as millions (more) vulnerable people losing their rights and their lives. Given that Biden's main campaign theme so far seems to be, "Trump is an aberration; Republicans in general aren't the problem, and in fact, I will support some of them above Democrats if they're my personal friends," I don't think the contrast is as clear as you'd like it to be.
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May 17, 2019 17:49
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skylined! posted:If Biden wins, a refusal to vote for him is tacit approval of an out-and-out fascist winning again and the further erosion of our democracy, as well as millions (more) vulnerable people losing their rights and their lives. The present Democratic Leadership has demonstrated that it is completely incapable of addressing the threat of rising fascism, and supporting them only guarantees that America falls to Fascism. If we want to get out of this we have to replace the present Democratic Leadership first, and all over to replace that leadership you first have to raise a whole hell of a lot of noise amongst the progressive base about how woefully inadequate the Democrats response to rising fascism has been this far. We have child death camps in the desert, trans people have been forcibly thrown out of the military, the president is openly corrupt and openly using federal agencies to support his corruption, and his rabbid base is enacting a campaign of stochastic terrorism directed at anything even vaguely associated with the left. And over the past two-and-a-half years the present time acratic leadership has done nothing but enable this situation and refuse to use the power they have to fight it. It's not choosing between the lesser of two evils, and frankly I think that attitude indicates just how sheltered and naive you are about the world. The choice between us is whether we want a big hole in the boat, a moderate sized hole in the boat, or if we want to actually go fix the hole in the goddamn boat. The current Democratic party will only guarantee a somewhat slower slide into fascism. With them at the helm the boat will slip beneath the waves just as surely. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 17, 2019 |
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May 17, 2019 17:49
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Bicyclops posted:The only people opposed to an Equality Act are like Mormon counties and hard-right wonks, so if it doesn't pass purely on party lines, we should probably feel free to call any Dems who voted against it "a huge bozo" or "Bigot McFasherson" or "Poopy pants." It's been slow, but Utah's been sort of coming around on LGBTQ+ inclusivity! At least, I'd like to think so. skylined! posted:It passed 236-173 Anything that shows the GOP breaking out of lockstep is fine by me, I'm glad that a few of them could support the Equality Act.
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May 17, 2019 17:49
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1129427895955468290?s=20
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May 17, 2019 17:51
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China tariffs aren't working out so well for you, are they, Donny? 
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May 17, 2019 17:52
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 After discussion with the mods, The Ethics of Protest Voting chat is banned indefinitely. You may criticize or defend democrats as normal. You may no longer post that 'protest voting is supporting fascism/republicans' or 'voting bad dems makes you a useful idiot' or anything of that sort.
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May 17, 2019 17:54
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Also, if you need to get in contact with me, use PM. IKs don't have access to reports.
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May 17, 2019 17:56
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The Equality Act passing the House with 8 republican defectors is better than I expected, but isn't it still dead in the senate? It'll never get enough for a veto override, so I think those 8 republicans just realized the vote didn't matter and made them look good. The vast majority of them are True Believers at this point, but there's gotta be some calculating corpses still hanging on. Like, yay victory and all, but I think Prester Jane's in the right, here. Our leadership doesn't push for moral victories where we need them. We don't need people to fight for the middle. You don't change people's minds by offering what they already want, you have to push to show people that there's more that's possible than that. I don't think we've got that right now. But on the right? "Be nazis! Throw out the lesser races! Earn the respect you never had!" I mean... they have it in spades. Ershalim fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 17, 2019 |
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May 17, 2019 17:58
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fool_of_sound posted:
More leaders screwing us with backroom deals smh
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May 17, 2019 17:59
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fool_of_sound posted:
As long as we make it clear that protest voting is functionally supporting the other side. Otherwise this decision sucks. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 17, 2019 18:00
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Ershalim posted:The Equality Act passing the House with 8 republican defectors is better than I expected, but isn't it still dead in the senate? It'll never get enough for a veto override, so I think those 8 republicans just realized the vote didn't matter and made them look good. The vast majority of them are True Believers at this point, but there's gotta be some calculating corpses still hanging one. Probably dead in the Senate, but it doesn't necessarily need to be veto-proof. Trump has expressed support for an Equality Act in the past. His brain is made of mush and there is no telling what he will do from one second to the next, but I'd actually wager that he'd sign it if it crossed his desk.
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May 17, 2019 18:01
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Ershalim posted:The Equality Act passing the House with 8 republican defectors is better than I expected, but isn't it still dead in the senate? It'll never get enough for a veto override, so I think those 8 republicans just realized the vote didn't matter and made them look good. The vast majority of them are True Believers at this point, but there's gotta be some calculating corpses still hanging one. Potentially. It honestly wouldn't have mattered if it passed unanimously within the House or if it just squeaked by with a number of Democrats defecting, but I think that this does count as a win. Even if it was an entirely pragmatic choice on the part of those 8 Republicans, it did come with a realization that supporting legislation which protects the rights of LGBTQ+ Americans looks good to the electorate at large. It might be too optimistic, but I am so, so hopeful that this will be part of a big step forward.
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May 17, 2019 18:02
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Ershalim posted:The Equality Act passing the House with 8 republican defectors is better than I expected, but isn't it still dead in the senate? Yes. The Democratic House is passing these popular progressive bills as an extended campaign for the Senate and WH. If they get those, the bills will have to be re-passed anyway because it's a new session of Congress.
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May 17, 2019 18:03
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Majorian posted:Given that Biden's main campaign theme so far seems to be, "Trump is an aberration; Republicans in general aren't the problem, and in fact, I will support some of them above Democrats if they're my personal friends," I don't think the contrast is as clear as you'd like it to be. Beyond how immeasurably lazy this is, and how his campaign rhetoric is not a definite indication of how he would govern (but more, of what he thinks the base made up of liberal boomers will respond to), the presidency is not just one office. It is the AG, Secretaries of energy, education, commerce, interior, defense, heads of the CIA, FBI, EPA etc. Are you seriously implying we would be no better off then we are with Betsy 'title ix complaints aren't real 'DeVos, or Coleman McFucktheenvironment at the EPA, with a Biden cabinet? Like, I don't want Biden to win! I want him to gently caress off forever! But if he does, the lives of countless people will be made immeasurably better vs trump's continued march to fascism, and our chance at actually persuading the executive branch to do something about climate change increase exponentially. How do you rectify this, beyond 'no it won't'?
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May 17, 2019 18:04
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Bidenchat goes in the primary thread
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May 17, 2019 18:05
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quote:Near-total abortion ban is up before the Missouri House on Legislature's last day https://twitter.com/bycrystalthomas/status/1129427026627125250 https://twitter.com/KRCG13/status/1129432135994097664
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May 17, 2019 18:05
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