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Condiv posted:Isn’t it odd skex that no-one’s blasting Castro for speaking Spanish? I’d guess that’s because Castro actually knows the language worth a drat and wasn’t using some memorized lines in Spanish to pander Well this is awkward... quote:some pundits asked, “ ‘Why would you select Julián Castro? He doesn’t fluently speak Spanish.’ As though that’s the only thing that’s going to matter to folks, specifically to the Hispanic community. It’s just a very one-dimensional, uninformed view of what moves a community." Beto, on the other hand... Obviously, dodging a question in multiple languages is irrdeemable pandering horseshit. But we should be careful our assumptions of authenticity, fluency, and the relationship between the two  (Also Beto was never running against Cornyn for the same reason he's not succeeding in the primaries: if he's not dumping a latinx incumbent, his heart just isn't in it)
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Jun 27, 2019 17:49
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Solkanar512 posted:How in the gently caress do you expect literally everyone to be fluent in multiple languages when at best such education shows up for maybe an hour/day for a year or two in high school? I’d expect that when reciting some canned response that had nothing to do with the question that’d he’d do a better job of reciting what he practiced
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Jun 27, 2019 17:50
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I do not speak Spanish but I was under the impression Beto does really speak Spanish and has campaigned in Spanish in the past for El Paso related poo poo. Maybe not?
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Jun 27, 2019 17:50
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Condiv posted:A bunch of latinx and spanish speakers in the thread have already stated as much skex To be fair, someone also posted their Spanish speaking mother was floored to see him speak Spanish during the debate, so as with any group different people react differently. Delthalaz posted:I do not speak Spanish but I was under the impression Beto does really speak Spanish and has campaigned in Spanish in the past for El Paso related poo poo. Maybe not? He does, but Gabbard speaks native English and she was stitled as hell. Even though he speaks Spanish he can still be awkward.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:51
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Paracaidas posted:Obviously, dodging a question in multiple languages is irrdeemable pandering horseshit. But we should be careful our assumptions of authenticity, fluency, and the relationship between the two i thought beto's spoken enough spanish in public that there's not really any doubt that he nominally can do it. he's mixing up genders because he's not very good at it, not because he's memorized everything he just speaks at "competent for a tourist" levels of fluency but thinks he's amazing at it and panders in a very transparent way
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Jun 27, 2019 17:52
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Paracaidas posted:Well this is awkward... Do you really think that’s good evidence for what you’re arguing?
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Jun 27, 2019 17:52
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I appreciated Beto's attempt to speak Spanish because basically everyone at the viewing event I attended busted out laughing when he started in with his awful pandering, and we could all use some levity in these difficult times. That his pronunciation was awful was icing on the cake.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:52
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Solkanar512 posted:How in the gently caress do you expect literally everyone to be fluent in multiple languages when at best such education shows up for maybe an hour/day for a year or two in high school? Because as much as the "leftists" here complain about the team aspect of politics, those complaints are just as performative as Beto's use of Spanish in the debate last night. Witness all of the "Warren is wishywashy on MFA because she's open to less comprehensive options if it isn't possible at the moment" despite her hand rocketing up in response not to a question about support for MFA but for supporting the elimination of private insurance. The "Left" itt don't argue in any more good faith than the Right does.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:53
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I appreciated Beto's attempt to speak Spanish because basically everyone at the viewing event I attended busted out laughing when he started in with his awful pandering, and we could all use some levity in these difficult times. That his pronunciation was awful was icing on the cake. if you liked that, you'll love mayor butt tonight the only question is how many different languages does he conspicuously drop
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Jun 27, 2019 17:53
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eke out posted:if you liked that, you'll love mayor butt tonight Can't wait for him to answer a question about police violence by introducing himself in Norwegian.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:54
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Skex posted:Then I leave it to Spanish speakers to decide how they feel about it rather than trying to project my own animus on the matter, I don't like him because he completely dodged the question (among other things) and that's enough for me not to vote for him, besides it's been clear for months that he's not getting the nod so it really doesn't matter. OK dude. Your fervent fandom and deeply felt desire for Beto The Trash Centrist That Couldn't Even Beat Ted Cruz to somehow do the impossible and beat actually qualified folks for the nomination is duly noted. I think it's ridiculous and absurd but hey, you do you.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:56
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Condiv posted:Do you really think that’s good evidence for what you’re arguing? eke out posted:he just speaks at "competent for a tourist" levels of fluency but thinks he's amazing at it and panders in a very transparent way 
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Jun 27, 2019 17:56
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Willie Tomg posted:nine washington generals face off against warren who is the only motherfucker who can follow the "one word response" rule with a hyphenate. Somebody draw this please. Maybe include Beto faceplanting in the distance and Tulsi putting Ryan in a headlock.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:00
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Paracaidas posted:What, exactly, do you think I'm "arguing" in that post? Well it appears to be an attempt to say Castro’s Spanish was near beto’s or something, but you posted an article about Beto wanting to debate people in Spanish, which doesn’t really say anything about his ability to speak Spanish (rather it says a lot about his perception of his Spanish speaking skills) So you tell me what you were trying to argue
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Jun 27, 2019 18:01
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yes
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Jun 27, 2019 18:06
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Main Paineframe posted:He just answered that one. He says it's because the Senate is full of debaters and dreamers, while the presidency is much more suited to a doer who knows how to get things done, like him. In mild defense of a candidate I dislike, there is something to be said about the difference between being in a legislature, which is mainly an advocacy and coalition-building position, and an executive position, which is about running an organization and knowing how to manage down and across to get your priorities enacted. It’s two different skill sets, and I imagine there are many who are good at one and not the other.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:06
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Condiv posted:I’d expect that when reciting some canned response that had nothing to do with the question that’d he’d do a better job of reciting what he practiced Yeah, totally agreed, but Reid said that being fluent in multiple languages was something "that literally everyone should be able to do". That's an incredibly unreasonable expectation.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:15
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Predictions for tonight: Candidates who will do the best: Harris, Buttigieg, Bernie. Candidate whose stock will go up the most: Harris (Bernie’s stock is already pretty high. I’d be surprised if it goes higher) Candidate whose stock will drop: Biden
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Jun 27, 2019 18:15
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theblackw0lf posted:Predictions for tonight: What makes you just assume Buttchug will do well, if I may ask? That's not a given. I think there's a better chance people come out of tonight going "wait, why is a literal real life Patrick Bateman running?" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2019 18:17
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Condiv posted:Well it appears to be an attempt to say Castro’s Spanish was near beto’s or something, but you posted an article about Beto wanting to debate people in Spanish, which doesn’t really say anything about his ability to speak Spanish (rather it says a lot about his perception of his Spanish speaking skills) Second article wasn't even that long: quote:Regardless of what the campaigns ultimately agree to, debates in Spanish between the candidates seem unlikely. While O'Rourke is fluent in the language, Cruz is not known as a proficient speaker. There have been assumptions in this thread, from extremely plugged in people including yourself, that Castro was the expert and Beto was memorizing lines. It's the opposite, and the underlying assumptions happen to fall along a relevant fault line to the conversation with the discussion of pandering, authenticity, etc.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:19
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1144251788876324869
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Jun 27, 2019 18:21
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That's not anywhere near close to what she said.  (like, even with humorous hyperbole aside)Paracaidas posted:There have been assumptions in this thread, from extremely plugged in people including yourself, that Castro was the expert and Beto was memorizing lines. It's the opposite, and the underlying assumptions happen to fall along a relevant fault line to the conversation with the discussion of pandering, authenticity, etc. It's not the opposite. Beto obviously isn't fluent, unless he was so incredibly anxious on stage that he forgot basic rules of the language. That article clearly bought his campaign's bullshit about him being fluent.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:22
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VH4Ever posted:What makes you just assume Buttchug will do well, if I may ask? That's not a given. I think there's a better chance people come out of tonight going "wait, why is a literal real life Patrick Bateman running?" When I say “do well” I mean with viewers. I think Mayor Pete has qualities that resonate with voters that will come across in the debates. And the pundit class. Now I wish it wasn’t the case, but I expect him to try high marks.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:23
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Skex posted:No I'm not trolling, I'm trying to point out that piling on a lovely candidate for reaching out to marginalized groups in their own language is a bad look for a group that is supposed to be about solidarity and a stupid and frankly unleftist move, Dog him out because he dodged the question not because he dodged it in Spanish ffs. How is this so loving hard to understand? On the one hand... I'm fine with people trying to reach out to a deeply hosed over community. On the other hand... I don't think anyone here believes that Beto is particularly honest about any of this.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:24
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Americans are pretty loving stupid so maybe Butts constant non answer word salad fascism will resonate with the boomers watching
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Jun 27, 2019 18:25
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VH4Ever posted:What makes you just assume Buttchug will do well, if I may ask? That's not a given. I think there's a better chance people come out of tonight going "wait, why is a literal real life Patrick Bateman running?" I wouldn't be surprised to see Biden dump on Buttigieg over the police brutality stuff in order to try to regain some credibility after the segregationist comments. I think Pete is going to have a night similar to Beto's.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:26
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mayor pete is an emptier suit than beto and his polling is mind blowing.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:27
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I’m actually worried NBC will give Biden the Trump Treatment and toss him a bunch of softballs. Of course being Biden he will still gently caress it up but there are a lot of old white Dems who pine for 1995. I hope Bernie and Harris can get a few jabs in. Yang will answer every question with (...and you get a thousand bucks!) I honestly don’t even know who else is in this debate and don’t care to look. *edit* Oh yea the butt is in this debate i forgot about him. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 18:29
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Punk da Bundo posted:Americans are pretty loving stupid so maybe Butts constant non answer word salad fascism will resonate with the boomers watching It may, but it won't resonate more than Biden's, and Pete has to win black votes if he wants to stay afloat. And that's probably not going to happen at this point. I'm guessing he WILL come out swinging against Biden's horrible record w/r/t PoCs though.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:29
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Majorian posted:It may, but it won't resonate more than Biden's, and Pete has to win black votes if he wants to stay afloat. And that's probably not going to happen at this point. if Pete attacks Biden over that , it will probably backfire tremendously Pete “I’m not asking for your vote “
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Jun 27, 2019 18:30
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B B posted:I wouldn't be surprised to see Biden dump on Buttigieg over the police brutality stuff in order to try to regain some credibility after the segregationist comments. I think Pete is going to have a night similar to Beto's. Pete is way more of a talented speaker and quicker on his feet than Beto. But hey hopefully I'll be proven wrong.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:30
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Paracaidas posted:Literally the opposite? as i already pointed out to you paracaidas, your articles don't actually establish the relative skill of the two. that's why i asked you if you thought you were making a good argument. a sentence in an article saying beto is fluent in spanish doesn't say a lot because a lot of people tend to over-estimate their ability to speak a language and unless the article author demanded a certificate showing c1/c2 level in spanish or vetted beto's spanish themselves, they most likely took beto's word on his proficiency in spanish. likewise, your article saying castro is not fluent doesn't say a ton, because a person can not be fluent in a language and still be able to communicate decently well. as for the people in the thread making assumptions, I'm basing what I'm saying off the word of actual spanish speakers in thread. from what has been discussed in thread and what has been said, it seems very much that saying beto is fluent in spanish is not true. likewise, i'm taking the lack of negative reaction or criticism of castro's spanish in the debate to mean he's better at it than beto.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:30
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Punk da Bundo posted:if Pete attacks Biden over that , it will probably backfire tremendously I actually think it's his only move at this point: bring up Biden's even worse record on race, in an attempt to overshadow his own. I think one of the moderators or candidates will bring up Butt's PoC issues, and he'll try to turn it back around on Biden: "Look at him, he's even worse on it than I am!"
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Jun 27, 2019 18:33
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Majorian posted:I actually think it's his only move at this point: bring up Biden's even worse record on race, in an attempt to overshadow his own. I think one of the moderators or candidates will bring up Butt's PoC issues, and he'll try to turn it back around on Biden: "Look at him, he's even worse on it than I am!" Let them fight while Bernie gains power and Marianne is channeling a spirit bomb
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Jun 27, 2019 18:35
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https://mobile.twitter.com/marykbruce/status/1144289212709183489
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Jun 27, 2019 18:37
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he really can't help but force unrequested physical contact onto people
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Jun 27, 2019 18:37
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Ahahahahaaaaa, oh Joe, never stop being you.
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Jun 27, 2019 18:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:mayor pete is an emptier suit than beto and his polling is mind blowing. his campaign chair is a former clinton staff psycho who's main skill is getting earned media spots
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Jun 27, 2019 18:38
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MODERATOR: "Vice-president Biden, some say that your requests for cory booker to apologize to you are tone deaf" BIDEN: *enters into the moderator section of the stage and hugs her* your hair smells really nice *sniffs*
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Jun 27, 2019 18:39
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i feel like that didnt happen
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Jun 27, 2019 18:40
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