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IShallRiseAgain posted:The individual Borg is a replaceable cog in the machine that is the Borg collective. Also, single Borgs don't need to be intelligent, they are better off spending their brain CPU power on whatever problem the collective needs solving. Before they encountered the federation, they didn't need anything but brute force to quickly get what they want (I'm ignoring species whatever). Even if they experience some causalities, they can always easily just get more drones. I don't mean I think there are people who would join the Borg as is, but that a collective-type species could be created in a way that was appealing to people. It would be nice to share a collective intelligence that knew and understood more than I ever could as an individual, not having the stresses and pain that result from the inability for people to understand or empathize one another, no loneliness or alienation, effective immortality, meaningful purpose for your body/life that can be quantified and enjoyed. So, basically definitely not the Borg in anyway outside of doing shared consciousness. Borg are basically just macro DNA doing a basic program to successfully self-reproduce and increase their numbers and control of immediate resources, lacking the abstract qualities of persons. The Zombie comparison is even better. I need to really go through DS9 start to finish once and for all, I don't know very much about the changelings and great link.
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Aug 12, 2019 01:31
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Khanstant posted:The human equivalent of a "queen bee" would be a floating womb and vagina that you poured maple syrup into until it shits out a continual stream of babies. A floating womb and vagina that occasionally has to exact capital punishment on workers who have unauthorized babies. 
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Aug 12, 2019 01:57
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Frank Herbert wrote a book about that pretty much Worth reading for the individualism vs collectivism thing as well as that kind of hosed up poo poo if you’re into that
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Aug 12, 2019 02:00
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I'm into individualism vs collectivism but am not generally interested in the capital punishment of workers who have babies. Just punish the bad baby!!
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Aug 12, 2019 02:17
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think it's a neat challenge to try to make edible yet alien-looking foods for actors to eat from normal terrestrial ingredients. 
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Aug 12, 2019 03:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think it's a neat challenge to try to make edible yet alien-looking foods for actors to eat from normal terrestrial ingredients. Kanar being basically maple syrup was a nice touch. It's a brown liquid like humans would expect of an alcoholic beverage, but it's got a strange thickness to it that we'd never tolerate or see in anything we make. I also enjoy the many varieties of "water with food coloring in it" that we get during bar scenes.
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Aug 12, 2019 05:46
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I watched Chain of Command the other day and I was impressed with how the taspar egg was simultaneously plausible and disgusting.
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Aug 12, 2019 05:54
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curiousTerminal posted:Kanar being basically maple syrup was a nice touch. It's a brown liquid like humans would expect of an alcoholic beverage, but it's got a strange thickness to it that we'd never tolerate or see in anything we make. It was actually syrup. Apparently Casey Biggs was drinking so much of it it was causing a problem so they switched to a sugar free syrup.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:15
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Lester Shy posted:I watched Chain of Command the other day and I was impressed with how the taspar egg was simultaneously plausible and disgusting. To be fair it probably would have been fine if it had actually been cooked but the guy was loving with Picard to make a point.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:15
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Isn’t Kanar a kind of opaque green kool-aid the first few times we see it? I’m not sure if that or the cane syrup would have been more bearable to drink for multiple takes every day.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:17
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I think it is notable to mention that with the Borg, they are first presented as extreme technophiles ("the ultimate user" as Q put it), with the hive mind being one aspect of that. They were the extreme version of the Starfleet "quest for knowledge" thing. The "we mindlessly zombify people" thing was sort of a Flandersization that happened over time.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:42
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Isn’t Kanar a kind of opaque green kool-aid the first few times we see it? I’m not sure if that or the cane syrup would have been more bearable to drink for multiple takes every day. There are explicitly different kinds. 
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Aug 12, 2019 06:50
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Hipster Cardassians drinking PBkanaR
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Aug 12, 2019 07:02
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the different flavors of kanar are just the lizard people's iterations of "mike's hard" lemonade/candy juice
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Aug 12, 2019 07:05
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Grand Fromage posted:It was actually syrup. Apparently Casey Biggs was drinking so much of it it was causing a problem so they switched to a sugar free syrup. I figured it would be real syrup, given how there's a few occasions where you can see the glass emptying as he takes a few swigs, and maple syrup is one of those things that keeps at/above room temperature so it'd be easy to use actual food without it being gross as hell. The fact that it wasn't sugar free to begin with...drat. Poor dude narrowly avoided diabetes.
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Aug 12, 2019 07:11
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Now I'm imagining the DS9 set just reeking to hell of cloying hot maple sweat
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Aug 12, 2019 15:11
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I think it is notable to mention that with the Borg, they are first presented as extreme technophiles ("the ultimate user" as Q put it), with the hive mind being one aspect of that. They were the extreme version of the Starfleet "quest for knowledge" thing. The "we mindlessly zombify people" thing was sort of a Flandersization that happened over time.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:I didn’t know that the original intent of the S1 episode ‘The Neutral Zone’ was for the Federation and the Romulans to join together to fight the Borg (who we find out down the road were responsible for taking out outposts on both sides of the Neutral Zone). I don't get this. Did the Borg wipe out the Neutral Zone colonies, then clear off to the Delta Quadrant, then come back after they saw that the Enterprise had holodecks or something?
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Aug 12, 2019 15:46
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I'm sure I heard that the missing colonies were going to be the conspiracy insect aliens, who were going to be set up as the big enemy, but then they decided they were too expensive so went with the Borg instead.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:52
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I thought they reworked the insect guys into the Borg because of how flippin' gross that episode was.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:00
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I don't get this. Did the Borg wipe out the Neutral Zone colonies, then clear off to the Delta Quadrant, then come back after they saw that the Enterprise had holodecks or something? Does it make a lot of sense when you try to compare that to ‘Q Who?’? No, not really.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:06
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I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? Well anyway he's dead wrong, I've seen it used multiple times on the promenade in DS9, most prominently Gowron declaring his intent to attack the Arcanis sector.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:07
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Well anyway he's dead wrong, I've seen it used multiple times on the promenade in DS9, most prominently Gowron declaring his intent to attack the Arcanis sector. You can read that in Gowron's voice.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:16
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Nessus posted:Yea. Outposts might get the codes if it stands for Naval Construction Contract or something like that, too. Or even if not. Royal Navy bases count as ships, being called HMS <whatever> and everything.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:18
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Thom12255 posted:You can read that in Gowron's voice. "Well anyway" is not something I can imagine Gowron ever saying. Unless... Odo: GOWRON... THE LEADER OF THE KLINGON EMPIRE... WHO IS TALKING ON THE SCREEN... WHO YOU ALL KNOW AS A KLINGON... IS NOT WHAT HE APPEARS... AND IN FACT... RATHER THAN BEING A KLINGON... (music intensifies, camera continues to zoom) IS A FOUNDER... WHICH YOU MAY COLLOQUIALLY KNOW AS A CHANGELING! Majel Barrett: And now, the conclusion Odo: A RACE OF BEINGS OF WHICH I AM A MEMBER... WHO ARE ABLE TO CHANGE THEIR APPEARANCE... AND ARE CURRENTLY, AS YOU KNOW, THREATENING THE ALPHA QUADRANT... THE QUADRANT IN WHICH WE LIVE... WHERE THE FEDERATION IS LOCATED
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Aug 12, 2019 16:30
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? 
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Aug 12, 2019 16:40
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I don't get this. Did the Borg wipe out the Neutral Zone colonies, then clear off to the Delta Quadrant, then come back after they saw that the Enterprise had holodecks or something? The system where they met the Cube in Q-Who was only a two years flight away from the Federation for the Enterprise. It seems like they were probing around the area and eventually decided that the Federation was worth a full-blown assimilate.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:51
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MikeJF posted:The system where they met the Cube in Q-Who was only a two years flight away from the Federation for the Enterprise. It seems like they were probing around the area and eventually decided that the Federation was worth a full-blown assimilate. Also, the Enterprise's method of leaving the area might have piqued their interest. A flash of white light and suddenly the ship went scooting away at warp three-zillion? Why, it's as if a godlike entity was moving the ship. We must go assimilate this engine technology.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:08
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? Gathering around a screen is fine, but from the trailer, it looks like they're watching through the window of a department store, which is a little dumb in a post-scarcity utopia filled with replicators. Maybe it's a historic, artisanal department store which gets handed down through the generations.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:15
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Powered Descent posted:Also, the Enterprise's method of leaving the area might have piqued their interest. One of the things that was implied that they later retconned out was that when the Enterprise zoomed away, they were heading towards the Federation at warp nine with the Borg in pursuit, and it would take two years to get there - and then, two years later, the Cube shows up, as if it simply never stopped. I just watched a few clips and one of the things I miss from the early Borg is when the collective voice would actually converse with people instead of just broadcasting catchphrases. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 17:22
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Isn’t Kanar a kind of opaque green kool-aid the first few times we see it? I’m not sure if that or the cane syrup would have been more bearable to drink for multiple takes every day. Not too weird considering the variety of human liquors. Whiskey doesn't have to be tawny.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:28
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? YO, BAJORAN WORKERS PEEP THIS, BOYEE
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Aug 12, 2019 17:48
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? I was complaining about that but it was more the fact that it was people looking at the speech on a display of televisions in a TV shop.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:11
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I wish when Voyager got to the Borg it was just a bunch of destroyed cubes and somewhat mysterious. Maybe get Seven by rescuing her from the shredded remains of one and then keep on trucking. Maybe have an encounter or two with Species 8472 later on that reveals they were responsible but not much else.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:22
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Nullsmack posted:I wish when Voyager got to the Borg it was just a bunch of destroyed cubes and somewhat mysterious. Maybe get Seven by rescuing her from the shredded remains of one and then keep on trucking. Maybe have an encounter or two with Species 8472 later on that reveals they were responsible but not much else. As usual this thread has more interesting ideas than the trek writers The hirogen constantly following them would have been good too, if done properly
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Aug 12, 2019 18:29
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I like they idea that they reach Borg space and it's like how the Borg don't bother with individual people; they just ignore Voyager because they're not of interest, and Borg-ravaged areas of the galaxy have a bunch of refugees in ships trying to stay small and under the radar enough to not be worth assimilating.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:35
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I have ideas about that. Voyager could be like outcasts and people will try to run them off because they have transporters and replicators and holographic tech that people are afraid would attract the Borg.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:48
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I saw someone saying how in the Picard teaser it was really dumb they had people gathering around a screen to view a Picard speech or something, that it was lazy writing because that equivalent wouldn't exist in the 24th century. Maybe Rich Evans? My summary of Next Gen's vision of Earth is that it's a place with space ships where everyone rides bikes. You always got the impression that people lived these slower and more balanced lives with Picard's family in particular looking like they could belong in the 19th century.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:17
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Picard was raised by Luddites. Jean-Luc Picard was the first Picard to leave the Sol system, and they ran a vineyard ffs, they might have as well have been Amish. When I think of the parents of Picard and Sisco (who was a chef) I can't think of two more useless professions where you can tell a computer to make you a Fatburger cirque 2010 LA and a Dom Perignon 1979.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:04
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Nullsmack posted:I wish when Voyager got to the Borg it was just a bunch of destroyed cubes and somewhat mysterious. Maybe get Seven by rescuing her from the shredded remains of one and then keep on trucking. Maybe have an encounter or two with Species 8472 later on that reveals they were responsible but not much else. Except the writers apparently thought that the thing that might have destroyed the Borg was the death of the Borg Queen in First Contact. So at least we dodged that Borg-ruining bullet. Honestly, I'm on Season 5 of Voyager and the Borg are not especially ruined yet. I guess the real bad stuff comes later. Actually, they did a pretty good job with 7 of 9 in making the Borg sympathetic. She's a constant voice explaining that the Borg are actually cool and good. I read that the writers wanted to make sure it didn't come off like she was a cultist or a drug addict when she defended the Borg, and honestly, I feel they mostly succeeded. In the episode where 7 gets to raise her own baby drone the only compelling argument against the Borg is that all our individual friends don't want to go away.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:17
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