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What would a commentator have to gain from exhibiting the nuances we like here? It's not like we live in soviet Russia where speaking well of socialism will get you a cushy job in the state.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:25
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Josef bugman posted:I asked this a while back, but does anyone have an article or a book about why our media landscape is so poo poo? Flat Earth News by Nick Davies
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Aug 14, 2019 21:26
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I more mean there just doesn't seem to be a lot of introspection or long form "let's talk about how things work, and who benefits" style of thing. The fact that so many of them seem so utterly pleased with themselves whilst contributing nothing always strikes me as the most insane thing though. Also very tired at the moment, brain keeps running over itself and I'm having difficulty concentrating. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 21:27
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*runs into thread* Fla...Coohoolin posted:Flat Earth News by Nick Davies Yes, that.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:29
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The harder you try to get taken seriously, the easier it is to get owned by the guy who will just drop trou and poo poo for everyone's amusement.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:30
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Josef bugman posted:I more mean there just doesn't seem to be a lot of introspection or long form "let's talk about how things work, and who benefits" style of thing. I think that's because how things work is that the media run interference for the powerful, and they all benefit. They'd be dobbing themselves in. It's worth noting that some journalists do start talking about that sort of thing once they no longer need a wage from a newspaper owner
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Aug 14, 2019 21:32
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Azza Bamboo posted:The harder you try to get taken seriously, the easier it is to get owned by the guy who will just drop trou and poo poo for everyone's amusement. The Toby Young Boys. No, the judge says you're not allowed that.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:33
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Josef bugman posted:I more mean there just doesn't seem to be a lot of introspection or long form "let's talk about how things work, and who benefits" style of thing. Absolutely flat earth news.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:33
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Josef bugman posted:I more mean there just doesn't seem to be a lot of introspection or long form "let's talk about how things work, and who benefits" style of thing. thirding Flat Earth News, it's good
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Aug 14, 2019 21:35
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Josef bugman posted:Sorry I should clarify that a bit more: Why are our political commentators within our media landscape so poo poo? Because the media is staffed by a small subset of the population that is predominantly white, male, middle-class and privately-educated. These people go on to work in an industry which by its intense 24/7 nature is very insular and systemically egotistical so new staff are taught about the importance and certainty of the group's regular views while never getting the chance to draw meaningful connections outside of the media bubble. tl;dr, their perspective on the world is hosed
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Aug 14, 2019 21:35
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Flat Earth News is the classic, a lot of it is cost cutting so journalists don't really have time to do journalism, or report stories in any depth, or cause too much trouble because they'll lose government access - which is also about losing access to content, because government PR comes nicely packaged and ready to play That's also why certain groups get their campaigns and materials aired - it requires less work than producing stuff. And a ton of stories are just wire copy, slightly massaged, which is gonna take a fairly neutral and basic angle anyway just so it sells to media outlets. Actual journalists are cut back and the ones left are expected to churn out content without having any chance of covering things properly (you get single people covering entire continents) so it all tends to this superficial story-led reporting So even if the top journalists are non-idiots, the environment doesn't really encourage them to show it. There isn't really any room for it, and people who make waves probably won't be the main journos for long And then you have the papers with people like Murdoch pushing agendas because they don't mind using their wealth for that etc etc
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Aug 14, 2019 21:37
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Josef bugman posted:Sorry I should clarify that a bit more: Why are our political commentators within our media landscape so poo poo? British Reporter: *makes question to politician, passively accusing the politican of Doing a Bad Thing or Being Wrong* British Politician: *ignores question, burps out tired sound bites about Doing a Good Thing or Actually Not Being Wrong* British Reporter: *drops the subject, smugly proud of not being as toady as US media*
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Aug 14, 2019 21:38
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Can't believe I've been beaten to the Flat Earth News recommendation. Still, it's a really good read. But if you mean like Opinion Writers in the papers are trash that's simply because they all generally live in London and have very little contact out of a small middle class set, an alarming number of them come from similar middle class backgrounds, plenty went to fee-paying schools, and the same universities. They've a very small set of experiences and contacts and absolutely no interest in the status quo changing in any meaningful way.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:38
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Also why are middle class people so prevelent everywhere and seem so shocked when folks disagree with them?
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Aug 14, 2019 21:39
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Josef bugman posted:Also why are middle class people so prevelent everywhere and seem so shocked when folks disagree with them? Maggie did the Thanos snap and sold all the council houses and all of the working class disappeared by becoming middle class. "I'm Middle Class" is a class traitor signifier and I will die on this hill tyvm
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Aug 14, 2019 21:42
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Josef bugman posted:Also why are middle class people so prevelent everywhere and seem so shocked when folks disagree with them? People like to hire people who have similar experiences to them. Maybe you went to the same school or the same uni. Maybe you both know Andrew from the village in the Chilterns you grew up in. So it becomes a self-reinforcing system really, not for any real beneficial reason, it's just what people know and the middle classes are eternally afraid of change on the whole.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:42
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Josef bugman posted:Also why are middle class people so prevelent everywhere and seem so shocked when folks disagree with them? You know what's funny, when I did my work placement my boss seemed to have a chip on their shoulder the whole time and i think it's because I was European and went to uni and they considered themselves less middle class than me because they got their journalism degree at a college, it resulted in weird stuff like a forceful defense of Laura kuenssberg from an avowedly leftist person.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:45
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Why do people do that? Why put others down to build yourself up? Also, is there any such thing as intelligence? Do we have enough time to learn everything we need/should do about the world?
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Aug 14, 2019 21:48
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I think you're all overthinking it. We can't have a serious discussion because we're not entirely serious beings. We have an emotional, perhaps even animal, element to us that needs to be acknowledged and utilised. Tired: look how sensible my policies are. Wired: guillotine kills the capitalists. Just think how easy it is to derail a smart conversation with chest beating and memes vs how it is to try and get someone hellbent on shitposting to have an opinion. Yes on a "civilised" level it's morally wrong but this isn't ethics class, it's how to get as many apes as possible to get off their rear end and put a pencil cross in a box.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:50
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I are super intellergent
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Aug 14, 2019 21:57
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Lol coolcab got probed in the c spam thread for pulling his "all nationalism is always bad" schtick
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Aug 14, 2019 21:58
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*except British nationalism, which is just Good Common Sense.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:01
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British nationalist is good for the milkshake industry
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Aug 14, 2019 22:17
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Josef bugman posted:I more mean there just doesn't seem to be a lot of introspection or long form "let's talk about how things work, and who benefits" style of thing. You know how after a while you stop really caring about your job and just do the bare minimum to get paid? Well that applies to journos too. And who's gonna make them do otherwise? They only socialise with each other, and they're all gonna keep telling each other how great they are.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:20
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Is nationalism not bad? I feel the question has been begged. And yes I know that's not what that means.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:20
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I dislike my job but it's important for the people that I at least put in the effort to appear happy and approachable to answer their questions. I will never understand how people can just do nothing. Even when I am doing nothing I am at least on SA.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:22
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Josef bugman posted:Also why are middle class people so prevelent everywhere and seem so shocked when folks disagree with them? I think twitter is a big part of this - you have this bubble of smart people who know what's up, and get paid a decent amount of money to espouse their wisdom (further confirmation that they're in the right) who occupy most of the sensible media and now they actively get to hear everyone going lol in their faces, suddenly other parts of society have a voice, and they see things differently??? no, it is the children who are wrong
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Aug 14, 2019 22:22
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Regarde Aduck posted:Is nationalism not bad? it's about as bad as being racist against Asians OP
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Aug 14, 2019 22:24
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Coohoolin posted:Lol coolcab got probed in the c spam thread for pulling his "all nationalism is always bad" schtick It's okay, I'm still here, and it is always bad, wuv yoooo PODCAST The final meeting for podcast related matters is tomorrow evening at 8pm, please come along in the discord if you're interested  Also, as we're doing this in as cooperative a way as is possible, we'll be voting from Friday to Sunday on a few things with how the podcast is formatted and run etc. Does anyone know of a good online polling type thing that does Single Transferable Voting? Ideally one where I don't need to tally them all up individually. Sanitary Naptime fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 22:26
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Coohoolin posted:Lol coolcab got probed in the c spam thread for pulling his "all nationalism is always bad" schtick He's not wrong and lol at any socialist who claims otherwise (  )
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Aug 14, 2019 22:27
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There are some good articles on the stumbling and mumbling blog about failures in modern news reporting. Overplaying the human influence and not bothering to explain complex situations- "Gordon Brown caused global financial crisis" type thing. Also middle class people are everywhere because the upper class have hosed off somewhere nicer and the rest are "aspirational middle class". Anyone who had such bad taste as to want to remain working class was taken away in a van back in the Cameron era. Own Jones' Chavs-the demonisation of the working class is a good read on this.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:28
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baka kaba posted:I think twitter is a big part of this - you have this bubble of smart people who know what's up, and get paid a decent amount of money to espouse their wisdom (further confirmation that they're in the right) who occupy most of the sensible media Doesn't anyone ever go "maybe I'm wrong and an idiot" why have we made it so hard as a society to go "I may not know this thing/ be able to have an opinion on that"/
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Aug 14, 2019 22:30
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Regarde Aduck posted:Is nationalism not bad? Not taking lessons on nationalism from someone continually ignoring their own racism.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:34
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Josef bugman posted:Doesn't anyone ever go "maybe I'm wrong and an idiot" why have we made it so hard as a society to go "I may not know this thing/ be able to have an opinion on that"/ Admitting that you don't know something is showing vulnerability, something that most people are taught from a young age to not do. It is really weird though, I've hosed up at work on a couple of memorable occasions and apparently most people don't really know how to handle the situation if you say "I did <thing> and it was bad, how can we make this less likely to happen again" rather than trying to defend yourself. Like yeah I hosed up it happens if it's super terrible then I guess I'm unemployed now, otherwise let's improve things? Having zero sense of competitiveness or shame does have its perks.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:38
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Can we please ensure the podcast supports RealPlayer
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Aug 14, 2019 22:41
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Print media (& all news reporting) is loss making, so its owners just externalise the profits, by pushing whichever agenda best suits them and their millionaire mates. Not necessarily even in a conspiratorial way: it used to be profit-making way back before the exact same poo poo they're still churning out was discredited and ridiculed, so it'd take positive effort to change the actual culture of the industry that still disproportionately benefits its owners, and lol if you think they're gonna do that. Anyway I'm caught up now & people asked for more catte pics:  She moved all the kittens up to the loft space shortly after the last kitten shot so we decided to leave them to it (& that's the only other snap of mum since taking pictures means stopping scratching her ear for even a single loving second, so you can see the problem). If anyone feels like Dave-Listering a kitten across the channel, you can have all the pics you want, and I'll pay you four kittens for your trouble.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:41
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Josef bugman posted:Doesn't anyone ever go "maybe I'm wrong and an idiot" why have we made it so hard as a society to go "I may not know this thing/ be able to have an opinion on that"/ Nowhere near as often as you do, because you have self doubt, a terrible affliction that correlates inversely with how noisy you are, noisy people who get paid to be noisy never ever doubt anything they say for any reason.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:44
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RabidWeasel posted:It is really weird though, I've hosed up at work on a couple of memorable occasions and apparently most people don't really know how to handle the situation if you say "I did <thing> and it was bad, how can we make this less likely to happen again" rather than trying to defend yourself. Like yeah I hosed up it happens if it's super terrible then I guess I'm unemployed now, otherwise let's improve things?
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Aug 14, 2019 22:54
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Ratjaculation posted:Can we please ensure the podcast supports RealPlayer Buffering..... Buffering..... No.
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Aug 14, 2019 22:55
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Josef bugman posted:Doesn't anyone ever go "maybe I'm wrong and an idiot" why have we made it so hard as a society to go "I may not know this thing/ be able to have an opinion on that"/ Well these people in general are professional insight/opinion havers so they're really not disposed to admitting they're wrong. Some do, others are really hostile to being challenged, and some don't really want to believe their perception of the world isn't universal, that they're privileged in a lot of ways and the rest of the world isn't in the same, comfortable position - it puts them in opposition to people on a lot of issues, complicates easy narratives (which are often just down to honest naivety) and the easy route is to just ignore all that. The liberal position As for society in general it's down to gender roles and pushing people to be competitive innit. Be aggressive, be the best, never back down, never admit someone knows more than you, always have something to say, be assertive because even if you have nothing to back yourself up, you're right. Things like listening, deferring to other people, cooperating, admitting fault or weakness etc, that's all for losers. Winning is all that counts, including arguments People get these attitudes drilled into them and reinforce them by acting that way in society. That's a big part of why dominant social groups have such a hard time shutting up and listening to others, because they're used to being winners and that's not how winners behave!!!
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Aug 14, 2019 22:55
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