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Endorph posted:Eh, this is kind of just pointless word association. I've seen people being massive transphobes with avatars of series with characters who are literally, explicitly trans. Heck, the heartbeat dev is actually an example of that since she used to be in the touhou fandom and get insanely mad whenever people acted like the character who literally, explicitly went from male to female (to the point of having a dead name) counted as trans. That's the thing that gets me about it, really. How little they know about the stuff they have as their avatar, sometimes. It's something I noticed with incel forums (I used to tool around on the Inceltears subreddit). Like there was a guy railing against any media having any relationship with any potentially gay readings at all. With flippin' Femto as his avatar.
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Oct 1, 2019 21:55
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I mean "anime" is also, similarly, not a monolithic culture despite how some people have taken to use anime as a catch-all signifier of their contempt. People co-opt the media they consume and see what they want to see in it regardless of the medium, and those people are also the most vocal in denouncing other takes and claiming their own to be the right ones.
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Oct 1, 2019 21:59
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Normal and smart thing to say and think: "The entire cultural output of this country of millions of people is x, and people who enjoy it are y." I'm not saying anyone here is doing that but it's an easy and bad trap to fall into.
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Oct 1, 2019 22:00
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AngryRobotsInc posted:That's the thing that gets me about it, really. How little they know about the stuff they have as their avatar, sometimes.
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Oct 1, 2019 22:13
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It can also be an attempt to claim space. That was the original intent of MAGA Momiji which has mas morphed into a lot of people not even realizing what she's from. Which I guess is pretty common for Touhou lol
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Oct 1, 2019 22:18
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Cuntellectual posted:There were people who ferverently denied that one girl from Zombieland saga was trans. Yeah but Crunchyroll (who literally paid for MRA wankbait Shield Hero to get an anime adaption) are SJWs who rewrote the Zombieland translation to pander to their diseased ilk. (Let's ignore the Japanese being even more blatant about it)
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Oct 1, 2019 23:34
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah but Crunchyroll (who literally paid for MRA wankbait Shield Hero to get an anime adaption) are SJWs who rewrote the Zombieland translation to pander to their diseased ilk. It's always fascinating comparing the actual conversations the Japanese fanbase of things are having with what conversations people seem to assume they're having. surprisingly, they tend to not be that radically different from the ones in the western hemisphere.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:39
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They meant that the Japanese voiceover is even more blatant about the character being trans than the translated subtitles would have you believe. Which fundamentally contradicts that little bit of conspiracy theory about Crunchyroll.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:42
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What I mean is that it's not like people in Japan are accidentally using terms that just happen to line up with trans imagery and the japanese fanbase is completely unaware, it's completely intentional and it's kind of amusing to see how hard people perform mental gymnastics to try and deny it and blame sjw translation or w/e.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:48
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The character literally dresses in the colors of the trans flag a few times. The creators definitely knew what they were doing.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:53
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Endorph posted:after being called out for transphobia and doubling down on it, heartbeat devs put their game + soundtrack on a 41% discount in reference to '41% of trans people commit suicide' statistic, reviews are currently a shithouse.
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Oct 2, 2019 00:28
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the funniest thing about the trans kid in zombieland saga is the fact that the wikipedia article for zombieland has to include like six citations when it calls her 'transgender'
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Oct 2, 2019 00:44
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Wikipedia super owns for trans stuff. It's been their policy for forever that they're not only allowed but have an obligation to deadname every single trans person they write about and also you can't ask them to remove it.
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Oct 2, 2019 00:46
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What the heck's an Atelier? A megapost for copying/pasting whenever someone asks that, as requested a few pages back before the current discussion started Atelier is a series of JRPGs released roughly yearly with (as of this post) 21 mainline entries and a dozen spinoffs. The best words to describe the mood of (most of) the games are "cute" and "chill". They almost exclusively have low stakes like "stop the government from eminent domain-ing my small business" or "don't get fired from my job". You (almost always) play as a young woman starting her career as an alchemist. What this means in game terms is crafting. Lots and lots of crafting. You craft your own weapons and armor, you craft bombs to throw at the enemies, you craft healing items, you craft everything. The trend in modern games is to have the crafting be a fully-realized puzzle minigame where the outcome is shaped by the exact details of the items you put in. Besides the crafting, the gameplay is fairly standard turn-based JRPG fare, often with a subfocus on exploration. Some of the older games also have a time management component, of varying levels of difficulty. The games are also known for having kickass soundtracks and heavy lesbian undertones. Most of the games are linked to each other in trilogies (or the occasional duology or quadrilogy). Generally speaking, you don't need to play a trilogy in order--they're designed to be playable individually (with varying levels of success). The series started on the original Playstation but it wasn't until the PS2 that the games started getting localized. The PS2 games are also huge outliers; in the PS3 era the series returned to its roots and the PS3 games are much more similar to the PS1 games than they are to the PS2 games. This means that the PS3 era is the start of the "modern" Atelier series. Thus, rather than talk about the series in chronological order, I'm going to talk about the modern games first and then go back to the older games. Arland Quadrilogy (PS3/Vita/PC/PS4/Switch for the first three; PC/PS4/Switch for Lulua)
Dusk Trilogy (PS3/Vita, soon to be PC/PS4/Switch)
Mysterious Trilogy (PS4/Vita/PC; L&S is on the Switch as well)
Secret (?) Trilogy (?) (PS4/PC/Switch)
Iris Trilogy (PS2)
Mana Khemia Duology (PS2)
Other stuff
cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 00:52
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Thats a lot of loving alchemists
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Oct 2, 2019 00:59
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Synthbuttrange posted:Thats a lot of loving alchemists I didn't even mention Lilie, Judie, or Viorate either, or any of the japan-only DS alchemists since they're inexplicably considered spinoffs and thus not in Nelke so I don't know them
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Oct 2, 2019 01:01
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Its really kind of intimidating because you go 'hahah this looks a little cute *is crushed by the rest of the series*
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Oct 2, 2019 01:04
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Ar Tonelico: A spinoff of the Atelier series which is mostly linked by being an RPG with a weirdly indepth crafting system, but it's also an actual RPG with a save the world plot and stuff. Noteworthy for having literally constructed an entire language just because, and for its incredible music, both in terms of the songs themselves and how they expand on the characters and world. If you literally learn an entire language to figure out how to translate them into English. Or look them up on youtube, I guess. Ar Tonelico: The first game in the series, notable for being kind of dull. The villain is cool and some of the side characters are alright, but the leads are pretty basic. Would describe as 10% sexy anime babes, 10% heartfelt storytelling, 10% cool music, 70% 'eh.' Ar Tonelico II: The second game in the series, notable for being badass. The characters pop a lot more than the previous game, even the protagonist, and the game actually handles relationships in a fairly mature way, with characters falling in and out of love in a way that feels natural. Would describe as 15% sexy anime babes, 50% heartfelt storytelling, 35% cool music. Has an infamously bad, glitchy official translation, so would recommend using the fan translation instead. Ar Tonelico Qoga: The third game in the series, notable for being titled 'Ar Tonelico Qoga: The Knell of Ar Ciel.' It's got a very colorful artstyle and a lot of amazing music but also cranks up the odd psychosexual angles in comparison to the previous games. The characters do still land sometimes but it's a lot harder of a sell due to just how weird it can get with those angles, with lots of random sidebars just being extended sex jokes. Would describe as 50% sexy anime babes, 20% heartfelt storytelling, 30% cool music. Ar No Surge: The fifth game in the series. Where's the 4th? It's a princess maker clone that never got translated. I don't know. Notable for being a sequel to a princess maker clone that never got translated, and for kind of assuming the player is male and thus leading the series composer to apologize to all the lesbians in attendance at the official concert, only to be met with thunderous applause in response. It's got kind of cool combat and some pretty good characters but it never really comes together like II or even Qoga, at least in my opinion. Also I didn't think the music was as good. Would describe as 30% sexy anime babes, 15% heartfelt storytelling, 15% cool music, 50% eh.
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Oct 2, 2019 01:05
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I think Gust themselves is trying to forget Lise, for the Japan only DS ones. The initial release was...preeeetty bad. ETA: ^^ Even if you try the Ar Tonelico games and don't like them, looking into the sheer amount of worldbuilding put into it can still be interesting. Because there really is a ton of thought into the universe and how it all works together. Way more than you'd expect from most games. AngryRobotsInc fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 01:06
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Ar Tonelico isn't an Atelier spinoff it's just another series of games that happen to be made by gust.
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Oct 2, 2019 01:12
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I actually thought there were more, that's pretty succinct. I already got bored to tears by Sophie and will be skipping Firis but thanks anyway, cheetah.
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Oct 2, 2019 01:50
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It's probably worth mentioning that about 20% of Ar Nosurge is TWISTS. So many TWISTS.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:07
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wateyad posted:Ar Tonelico isn't an Atelier spinoff it's just another series of games that happen to be made by gust. The PS3 version of Shallie would try to convince you otherwise! 
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Oct 2, 2019 02:22
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:Wikipedia super owns for trans stuff. It's been their policy for forever that they're not only allowed but have an obligation to deadname every single trans person they write about and also you can't ask them to remove it. Don’t they just say the birth name once in the opening paragraph/sidebar and whenever talking about some time in the past before the person changed names?
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Oct 2, 2019 02:28
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Do you think that's acceptable to trans people?
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Oct 2, 2019 02:40
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C'mon they only dead name you once and make sure it's like the first thing the reader sees, how could you object to that?
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Oct 2, 2019 02:41
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"Hmm one of the biggest websites in the world deadnames me but its cool it's only sometimes"
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Oct 2, 2019 02:41
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jimmy wales eats his own boogers
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Oct 2, 2019 02:42
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kirbysuperstar posted:jimmy wales eats his own boogers Jimmy Wales? More like, jimmy britain... I dunno Ive got nothin.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:43
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meanwhile I believe they don't list Dril's real name at all
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Oct 2, 2019 02:49
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Checked Yusuf Islam's page and yeah, theyre lovely about it for non trans people as well. I was thinking itd just be a mention at the start then the rest of the article using the persons name but nope, yusuf gets called by a stage name he hasnt used in decades or a birth name he never used performing.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:52
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Ar tonelico is one of those things I wish I could recommend more because the worldbuilding is SO GOOD and the music is SO GOOD and the conlang is SO COOL but it's wrapped around gameplay that's pretty eh at best.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:54
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Sorry, I didn’t really understand due to a lack of knowledge.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:03
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ar tonelico is only like 15 hours long at least and you can speed that up a lot on an emulator ar tonelico 2 is a lot easier to stomach in general
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Oct 2, 2019 03:09
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I remember teen me thinking that Misha's story was insanely cool
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Oct 2, 2019 03:11
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The Colonel posted:ar tonelico is only like 15 hours long at least and you can speed that up a lot on an emulator yeah, AT2 was what got me into being an AT fan.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:15
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the best part of ar tonelico 1 is the random mechanic girl who has a scene midway through that just goes like krusche: "did i ever tell you i'm a reyvateil" lyner: "what...!?" krusche: "heh, gotcha. i lied" and then it just never comes up again.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:23
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tbh i'd say the last like... three hours? of ar tonelico are really good. like, they don't fix that the gameplay, is really boring, but the last act is a huge dramatic shift in pacing and structure in a way that's, actually really interesting and it starts going into all of the most interesting themes of its story and i like that the resolution to ayatane's big final battle is just lyner saying "yo dude chill we're not gonna kill your mom" and ayatane saying "oh, serious? drat maybe you're not even bullshitting i guess this is worth a try" like it's still a 6/10 game at most but i think the relatively short run time is worth it just for those last few bits
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Oct 2, 2019 03:28
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cheetah7071 posted:Atelier Rorona: [...] Also apparently the PS3 version is terrible and you should never play it Specifically, it's the original PS3 version that's terrible and shouldn't be played. Atelier Rorona Plus is the only one of the "Plus" versions to get a PS3 release as well as the Vita due to it being more of a remake than "we stuck the DLC in for free" upgrade.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:44
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:"Hmm one of the biggest websites in the world deadnames me but its cool it's only sometimes" I think its necessary because otherwise people might have no idea who the person is if they were famous in some manner under their deadname. You have to mention somewhere that they changed from a one name to another. Narcissa Wright springs to mind. She dropped out of the public eye during her transition, but her deadname was well known to casual speedrunning fans due to that gdq oot video.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:48
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