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Arsenic Lupin posted:Anyway, that's quite the map, isn't it? I plan to spend tomorrow tracking down the gas stove, making sure it has enough cylinders, finding the solar phone charger, and so on. And if you have cash to burn, GoalZero electric generator is basically a big set of rechargeable batteries that you can plug your fridge or TV into. May take a while to charge but it might get you some of the way through the day.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:05
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Listen guys, we'd love to modernize our electrical infrastructure but it's just too gosh darn expensive. How could our economy bear such a price? *shuts off entire state of California for 2 days*
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Oct 8, 2019 03:08
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Morbus posted:Listen guys, we'd love to modernize our electrical infrastructure but it's just too gosh darn expensive. How could our economy bear such a price? SoCal Edison is keeping the lights on. Not sure why PG&E can’t.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:19
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FCKGW posted:SoCal Edison is keeping the lights on. Not sure why PG&E can’t. Profit.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:42
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They're trying to make it seem unreasonable for them to shut off power during wind storms, since they've done so much fraud and so little veg management that its just too hard. I really doubt they're going to shut off the power to San Leandro, parts of Oakland, and parts of Stanford.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:49
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Kill Bristol posted:Anyone with knowledge about the utility situation feel like doing an effort post on nationalizing utilities, with the big pro/cons of doing so? Or linking to a good deep dive on the topic. I know some people who aren’t right wing/neoliberal types oppose it, but I don’t really know enough about the arguments for/against to make an informed judgement on the subject.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:05
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Davis should have sent rhe loving state police when enron did their poo poo fest with our grid. It would have set a precendent for national public grid. loving scumbag was a fuckinf pussy
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Oct 8, 2019 04:11
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FilthyImp posted:Find a Ranch 99 and they should have those canned butane burner stovetops used for HotPot and the like. If you're at all handy, you can make your own for way less using a Husky container! You can then use the savings to purchase some stand alone solar panels and make your own setup. GoalZero is real expensive, but it's all the package in one thing with nice hookups.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:15
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cheese posted:There is literally no downside and all upside to nationalizing the utilities. Why would we want to continue to attach a profit motive to a basic economic and social good like electricity? Seriously, its all downside. They cut wherever they can (such as spending on power and gas line maintenance), avoid technology upgrades unless it makes them more money, and generally make things worse. No one ever tries to argue against this. They just say that government utilities are "inefficient," bureaucratic, not beholden to their customers (because you can punish PG&E with your wallet... oh wait), poorly managed, prone to corruption etc. etc. All those things it already is as a private company. It's loving stupid but liberals are braindead sheep so what are you gonna do. Gotta have that "free" market.
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Oct 8, 2019 05:20
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FilthyImp posted:Find a Ranch 99 and they should have those canned butane burner stovetops used for HotPot and the like. I actually own one of those, from Ranch 99. It needs new propane cylinders, as does the camp stove. Also I should probably buy some canned chili or somth. We usually cook from scratch.
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Oct 8, 2019 05:31
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Celexi posted:surely pge couldn't have seen the writing on the wall year after year and instead of setting money on fire to pay for fires they cause they could have started burying electrical lines and enclosing transformers. Just had this convo with someone. Think about all the places that overhead lines cross private property, or a stream, or a gas line, or a railway, or a freeway, or a steep mountain, etc. Think about what it would take to negotiate or eminent domain pieces of all those parcels, to plan all the re-routing and schedule all the digging, etc. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Underground-power-lines-don-t-cause-wildfires-12295031.php quote:The utility operates more than 134,000 miles of overhead power lines of one voltage or another across Northern and Central California. So while placing power lines underground in areas filled with flammable vegetation may sound sensible, it is far from cheap: It would cost well over $100 billion to do across PG&E’s entire territory. So, burying power lines is a good idea, but it costs over a million a mile and in some places over 4 million a mile, and it's a vast undertaking regardless. They can and should make plans to bury the most dangerous lines, but hell, the reason the most dangerous lines are the most dangerous is because they aren't properly maintained, and properly maintaining them is far less expensive than burying them, so... uhhh. Realistically even with a total state takeover and a huge bill, it'd probably take like 20+ years just to get like the most dangerous 25% of overhead lines buried.
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Oct 8, 2019 06:58
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$100 billion is the amount of money the Fed conjured up out of nowhere to bail out the repo market last month. The money is there, rich people just don’t give a gently caress.
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Oct 8, 2019 07:19
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The article quoted was written in 2017, not last month. The total price tag isn't important, it's the various considerations like geography, environment, property rights, etc that would make it a ridiculously difficult project. Nationalizing PG&E would be an insanely difficult undertaking, let alone actually doing the things PG&E could/should be doing right now. Like, would you just scrape the top layer or two off of PG&E but leave everything underneath the same and hope that CA can figure out how to manage a huge corporate entity structured as a huge corporate entity, at least temporarily? Break it apart into SMUD/LADWPs? Some other thing?
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Oct 8, 2019 07:39
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Yeah that’s what I was getting at. What would nationalization actually look like, what form would it take legally, administratively, in terms of governance, what are the arguments for a state agency vs. municipal ownership, etc. Even if “install public ownership, problem solved” were true (and hey, maybe it is) there’s still lot of grey area there. Also, re: powerlines, wouldn’t buried lines be bad because of seismic activity?
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Oct 8, 2019 08:28
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The Glumslinger posted:We would prefer them to upgrade and properly maintain their equipment and surroundings Totally agree. But right now I would prefer no more fires this year, and The equipment ain’t adequately maintained yet
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Oct 8, 2019 08:42
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FCKGW posted:SoCal Edison is keeping the lights on. Not sure why PG&E can’t. Partly because PGE has a much more sprawling and more heavily wooded service area than SoCal Ed And partly because PGE sucks
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Oct 8, 2019 08:44
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Zachack posted:The article quoted was written in 2017, not last month. The total price tag isn't important, it's the various considerations like geography, environment, property rights, etc that would make it a ridiculously difficult project. Well if cost isn’t important than just hire the people necessary to do the work, like the TVA a century ago.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:00
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Centrist Committee posted:Well if cost isn’t important than just hire the people necessary to do the work, like the TVA a century ago. "hire the people" doesn't necessarily solve those issues and it's not like hiring more operates like moving a slider where industry goes up but population growth and culture points go down. A lot of century old projects were performed with a complete disregard for the environment, civil rights, etc. The TVA was also formed during the great depression which carries a lot of benefits for a project like this.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:20
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The point of nationalizing is that it gives you a platform whereby you can fund the requisite billions directly (i.e. taxes) while ensuring it actually gets spent on infrastructure development and without having to worry about shareholders or profitability. It also introduces some degree of accountability. I don't think the argument is that public ownership magically solves the problem; it's that the problems we're facing are severe enough that we can't afford the burdens of a corporate monopoly on top of it all.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:29
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In other countries that do care for the environment it doesn't take 5 years to plan and 3 more to build a sidewalk, this is a unique problem in California and America. Things can be done quickly if they actually wanted to.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:31
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PG&E's webpages on the power shutoff have apparently been deleted the website just returns PG&E's cannot find page error. Their Twitter is blaming heavy traffic for those pages being down but while their website is slow I'm pretty sure heavy traffic can't delete things. lmao
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Oct 8, 2019 18:37
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Celexi posted:In other countries that do care for the environment it doesn't take 5 years to plan and 3 more to build a sidewalk, this is a unique problem in California and America. Things can be done quickly if they actually wanted to. What other countries are you referencing, specifically, and what knowledge do you have of their planning process? Is it just the idea that California is so onerous of a process that this statement must be true? That you hear of other infrastructure projects being completed overseas and so it must be true?
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Oct 8, 2019 18:42
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Goodpancakes posted:What other countries are you referencing, specifically, and what knowledge do you have of their planning process? Is it just the idea that California is so onerous of a process that this statement must be true? That you hear of other infrastructure projects being completed overseas and so it must be true? I am from Portugal and while we have quite the bureaucratic red tape it amazes me how in California it is 20 times worse, and it wasn't this bad either in Czech Republic where I lived for sometime.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:44
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Celexi posted:I am from Portugal and while we have quite the bureaucratic red tape it amazes me how in California it is 20 times worse, and it wasn't this bad either in Czech Republic where I lived for sometime. Portugal is less than 1/4 the size of California and is a (mostly) sovereign nation. I skimmed the administrative structure of Portugal and it seems significantly different than how California is administered, although some of that may be differences in terms rather than function.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:02
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I think the British planning commission hads us beat at the very least. I've been reading some urban planning poo poo recently and I'm coming around to the chaos perspective of abolishing zoning restrictions entirely
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Oct 8, 2019 19:10
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Our way of doing infrastructure sucks rear end and is insanely expensive and overpriced is one of the many many many many problems facing the state. Have a friend whose wife works at a company that literally comes in after the low bid bails out of state infrastructure projects and does the job for time + materials, it's insanely wasteful of public money and the owner of the company is a millionaire many many times over.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:20
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Yep. I've complained about it here before but you would not believe how many infrastructure projects we're forced to hand over to contractors we know are going to gently caress the project up and then bail because they've done it do us multiple times before, but they're still somehow registered as government contractors and they entered the lowest bid so welp! Sometimes we can gently caress around with minimum requirement specifications to try to cut out known fraudsters, but it's a tightrope act.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:33
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Goodpancakes posted:I've been reading some urban planning poo poo recently and I'm coming around to the chaos perspective of abolishing zoning restrictions entirely My understanding is that is how Tokyo handles it as well.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:25
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https://twitter.com/melissacolorado/status/1181652383811567616?s=20 Lol
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Oct 8, 2019 20:29
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So much for 24 hours notice I guess? How does PG&E still have people in limbo over a potential 36 hour blackout that could start tomorrow morning before most people have even woken up? How is this allowed? How many times do we need to get bent over the table by energy companies as a state before enough is enough?
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Oct 8, 2019 20:35
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I posted on my Assemblyperson's Facebook about how PG&E got away with murdering all those people in the Camp Fire and somebody rolled in to sealion about the definition of murder. So, a few more times, at least, apparently.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:03
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Zachack posted:"hire the people" doesn't necessarily solve those issues and it's not like hiring more operates like moving a slider where industry goes up but population growth and culture points go down. A lot of century old projects were performed with a complete disregard for the environment, civil rights, etc. The TVA was also formed during the great depression which carries a lot of benefits for a project like this. Well the reality today is that PG&E increasingly oscillates between cutting service and burning down cities. On the other hand we have historical examples of mass public works in projects like the TVA. We have contemporary proposals in the GND. We have contemporary examples with China. And we have the money as evidenced by trillions in QE in general and $100 bn+ in recent Fed interventions in particular. If you're asking how to do nationalization under the Trump administration within a market-based, neoliberal capitalist economic order, then I concede it isn't possible and the future is more expensive, less reliable service.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:42
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Jaxyon posted:My understanding is that is how Tokyo handles it as well. japanese zoning is set nationally and tends to be non-exclusionary it is pretty cool imo
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Oct 8, 2019 21:46
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https://twitter.com/melissacolorado/status/1181673547208355840?s=20
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Oct 8, 2019 21:53
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Oh cool now they're going to start shutoffs at midnight. Hope you didn't plan for their original estimate of 5AM! e. Sorry for linking Mercury News but they have the latest map of affected areas here. If they stick to this I'd avoid having my power shut off by like five blocks, so guess I'm stockpiling tonight just in case. Sydin fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 21:55
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Sydin posted:Oh cool now they're going to start shutoffs at midnight. Hope you didn't plan for their original estimate of 5AM! Yeah, I'm very narrowly in a lucky triangle in the middle of Napa. The lines are underground here, so God-willing, we'll dodge that bullet.
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Oct 9, 2019 02:08
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Sydin posted:How is this allowed? How many times do we need to get bent over the table by energy companies as a state before enough is enough? Until the general public starts treating privatized infrastructure with more distain than they treat socialized/public owned infrastructure and services. Also until all the politicians stop being financially beholden to (or on the loving boards of) all the lovely companies that are constantly loving everybody.
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Oct 9, 2019 04:37
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quote:How is this allowed? How many times do we need to get bent over the table as a state before enough is enough? Ftfy
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Oct 9, 2019 07:33
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CPColin posted:I posted on my Assemblyperson's Facebook about how PG&E got away with murdering all those people in the Camp Fire and somebody rolled in to sealion about the definition of murder. it's only murder if you can't afford good lawyers
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Oct 9, 2019 10:07
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Hmm so it looks like my home is solano won't be affected today but my work site in Coco county will be https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/bay-area-calif-power-outage-map-14503599.php%20 Looking at the map, thats a whole shitload of people
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Oct 9, 2019 17:20
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