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Arist posted:small brain: akechi is going to be redeemed in royal
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Oct 28, 2019 02:08
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Arist posted:small brain: akechi is going to be redeemed in royal I think you mean going to own.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:56
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What I mean is that Sae is a nightmare person
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Oct 28, 2019 02:57
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Arist posted:small brain: akechi is going to be redeemed in royal You'll get a special scene if you romance Sae and Makoto at the same time. they loving kill you and take over as the protags of P5R
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Oct 28, 2019 03:16
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NachtSieger posted:they loving kill you and take over as the protags of P5R At which point they suddenly become mute. The Persona protagonist curse is real.
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Oct 28, 2019 04:04
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Arist posted:What I mean is that Sae is a nightmare person Yeah but she cute
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Oct 28, 2019 04:10
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Absolutely gonna bang Sae my first run through just to witness the trainwreck. Kinda tempted to pick up an import copy once the game is out. My Japanese isn't even passable but with a dictionary site open on the side and pre-existing game knowledge I should be able to fumble my way through it. Wouldn't bother if it came out sooner here, but Q2 2020 is a pretty bad lag time.
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Oct 28, 2019 04:44
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Arist posted:What I mean is that Sae is a nightmare person How so, the game itself shows that her corruption is rooted in her sense of justice and once shown what she was becoming she rapidly steps back from it, same as Mishima when he was going bad. Additionally, from what we hear of her through Makoto she's only recently started to be like this, it's a new development not who she has always been. It's telling that unlike all the other villains Sae doesn't need her treasure stolen narratively, and there is every suggestion that it was not stolen at all. She makes a few mistakes in regards to Makoto, and threatens something pretty terrible towards Sojiro but she doesn't follow through with the threat towards Sojiro and is shown the error of her ways. She probably should've apologised to all of them but it's really weird people hate her so vehemently. Akechi I understand, Akechi actively did a lot of really heinous awful stuff to a lot of people. Sae however is shown to only recently be breaking down, and it's related to the impossible to solve Mental Shutdown and Phantom Thief cases being a huge strain, plus her sexist work environment and actually villainous boss both pressuring her harder than before to find "results". Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 08:40
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Yes but have you considered, ACAB
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Oct 28, 2019 09:05
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Assigned cop at birth. shame
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Oct 28, 2019 09:35
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If Sae is romanceable that makes Sojiro's bullshitting skills in the Valentine Day scene (date them all version) even more impressive, since he manages to convince two sisters who live together that you're not two-timing them.
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Oct 28, 2019 15:00
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Sydin posted:Yes but have you considered, Good thing that at the end of the game she quits being a cop.
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Oct 28, 2019 15:18
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no, she just joins the profession in japan that loses 99% of the time, will almost never see trial and is primarily there to negotiate plea deals and settlements but don't worry! her little sister becomes a cop in her place ensuring that nothing actually changed and the status quo is upheld!
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Oct 28, 2019 15:25
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's telling that unlike all the other villains Sae doesn't need her treasure stolen narratively, and there is every suggestion that it was not stolen at all. Presumably stealing the treasure is what puts them in full on remorse/regret mode and triggers the confession. And there's a very good chance that if they didn't, the targets would either change but keep their previous crimes under wraps, or relapse eventually. Though I am basing that on the Mementos targets, but maybe those "palace seeds" they leave behind count as treasures? They're not personal items like the real treasures though.
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Oct 28, 2019 15:49
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Hunt11 posted:Good thing that at the end of the game she quits being a cop. She's also not really a cop to begin with, she works with them but is distinct from their power structure as a prosecutor. TVs Ian posted:It seems like stealing the treasure isn't strictly necessary for changing a person, defeating their shadow is the key for that. And they definitely didn't steal Sae's, unless they went back post-fakeout to grab it. Otherwise the palace would have collapsed and ruined that plan. Stealing the treasure is 100% implied to be necessary for changing false cognition, which Sae does cure on her own. The Treasure is whatever is the root of their warped desires, and ultimately are the cause of their warped view of the world. Kamoshida is a monster, but the treasure is the manifestation of his belief that he deserves whatever he wants from anyone. So on and so forth. Thus whilst defeating Sae's Shadow might have helped, without removing her treasure her heart would have remained distorted and thus her sense of justice which is ultimately what the Phantom Thieves plan relies on would not heal without her taking the next steps.
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Oct 28, 2019 16:23
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Expect My Mom posted:no, she just joins the profession in japan that loses 99% of the time, will almost never see trial and is primarily there to negotiate plea deals and settlements Apart from Sae being not much of a character, this part drove me a bit crazy as a westerner. I honestly couldn't tell if there were subtle jabs at the Japanese legal system in the text or if I'm just reacting that way as someone whose jaw drops open wider and wider the more you honestly explain how it works.
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Oct 28, 2019 16:28
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YaketySass posted:If Sae is romanceable that makes Sojiro's bullshitting skills in the Valentine Day scene (date them all version) even more impressive, since he manages to convince two sisters who live together that you're not two-timing them. That scene felt like another instance of P5 trying to have its cake and eat it too for me. The game wants to acknowledge that playing with women's hearts is a lovely thing to do and now you're gonna face some consequences for it. But nope, Sojiro somehow sweet talks everyone that nothing wrong is going on. It also makes Sojiro an awful scumbag for helping Joker out.
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Oct 28, 2019 20:30
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There should be a new ending where if you cheat on Sae she gets you life in prison.
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Oct 28, 2019 20:38
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amigolupus posted:That scene felt like another instance of P5 trying to have its cake and eat it too for me. The game wants to acknowledge that playing with women's hearts is a lovely thing to do and now you're gonna face some consequences for it. But nope, Sojiro somehow sweet talks everyone that nothing wrong is going on. It also makes Sojiro an awful scumbag for helping Joker out. Don't they uh beat you up if you date multiple women at once? There's definitely a consequence lol
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Oct 28, 2019 20:44
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amigolupus posted:That scene felt like another instance of P5 trying to have its cake and eat it too for me. The game wants to acknowledge that playing with women's hearts is a lovely thing to do and now you're gonna face some consequences for it. But nope, Sojiro somehow sweet talks everyone that nothing wrong is going on. It also makes Sojiro an awful scumbag for helping Joker out. I mean, it's pretty heavily implied that until he met Wakabe Sojiro was something of a playboy. He sticks his neck out for Joker because he remembers being in similar positions when he was young and stupid, and he gives Joker a stern "you hosed up" talk before letting him know he got him off the hook. That said the romance stuff in general is one of the skeevier parts of the game for sure. That you can date Futaba when Joker is such an emotional cruch for her has been discussed to death. Joker can bang multiple adult women when he is still a minor. The fact that you can choose to cheat on people at all is pretty out of character for Joker and as a result needs to be handwaved away by Sojiro rolling a nat 20 on his bluff check because otherwise pretty much none of the female PT's or confidants would want anything to do with Joker for a good long while, maybe forever, and that ruins the story's message. Really imo the ability to cheat shouldn't have even been included. Pick a waifu and stick with her nerd.
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Oct 28, 2019 21:25
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Just goes to show all the persona protagonists after 2 are sociopaths  Minako gets a pass because her boyfriends keep dying.
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Oct 28, 2019 22:31
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Sydin posted:Pick a waifu and stick with her nerd. I did. Her name is Makoto. 
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Oct 28, 2019 22:37
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Perhaps it is a commentary on temptation and the true punishment comes from within.
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Oct 28, 2019 23:30
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Sae is an interesting example because it's the only case where the scenario of defeating someone's shadow but leaving their treasure is explored and it does seem to have resulted in her chilling out to a degree, just not to the extent of a total cognitive overwrite that you got with all the other cases. Sae probably didn't need Phantom Thief special, since she was treated as being far more conflicted than any other target, and the game goes out of its way to show the ones who get their treasure stolen as being complete irredeemable shitheads
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Oct 28, 2019 23:34
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Sae is interesting because after a game of fighting villains who are often, at best, tangentially linked to the structural issues of Japan, and who are already rejected by or do not represent the mainstream, Sae is the first one complicit in an actual, specific structural issue the game is interested in talking about (conviction rates, am I right?) only for the game to completely drop it and her to get off essentially Scot-free despite her dungeon implying she has actively fixed cases before, or at least accepts that as part of the job.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:06
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Also I'd be remiss in discussing how the two female palace holders get reformed without having to steal their treasure. Give me a female unrepentant rear end in a top hat dammit.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:09
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We might get that in Scramble, if the trailer was any indication.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:12
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Wordnumber posted:Sae is interesting because after a game of fighting villains who are often, at best, tangentially linked to the structural issues of Japan, and who are already rejected by or do not represent the mainstream, Sae is the first one complicit in an actual, specific structural issue the game is interested in talking about (conviction rates, am I right?) only for the game to completely drop it and her to get off essentially Scot-free despite her dungeon implying she has actively fixed cases before, or at least accepts that as part of the job. I believe the idea with Sae has accepted the reality that rigging cases is what all the top prosecutors, and she has prepared herself to falsify evidence or otherwise do whatever it takes to get her bosses off her rear end about the Phantom Thieves case, but that she has not done this previously. She's at the precipice of becoming a monster, but ultimately still capable of backing out and quitting her job without having to get completely brainwashed by having her treasure taken.
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Oct 29, 2019 01:24
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Gruckles posted:I believe the idea with Sae has accepted the reality that rigging cases is what all the top prosecutors, and she has prepared herself to falsify evidence or otherwise do whatever it takes to get her bosses off her rear end about the Phantom Thieves case, but that she has not done this previously. She's at the precipice of becoming a monster, but ultimately still capable of backing out and quitting her job without having to get completely brainwashed by having her treasure taken. This is the person whose Id (or whatever) is the manager of a completely rigged from top to bottom casino that presumably didn't suddenly get that way overnight you're talking about, right
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Oct 29, 2019 02:35
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I mean Sae is basically MIles Edgeworth.
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Oct 29, 2019 02:59
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ImpAtom posted:I mean Sae is basically MIles Edgeworth. That is a lot more accurate than I am comfortable with.
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Oct 29, 2019 03:31
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Stroth posted:That is a lot more accurate than I am comfortable with. 
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Oct 29, 2019 07:23
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Xad posted:Don't they uh beat you up if you date multiple women at once? There's definitely a consequence lol Female-on-male violence doesn't count and is meant to be funny, ask Ryuji about it.
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Oct 29, 2019 07:44
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Sapozhnik posted:This is the person whose Id (or whatever) is the manager of a completely rigged from top to bottom casino that presumably didn't suddenly get that way overnight you're talking about, right Manager does not mean owner. They’re still an employee and so must participate in whatever regime the owner desires, in this case the government/SIU director. Also palaces can form pretty quickly, and the only definite timeline we have for Sae’s palace is that it was open when Makoto joined. It might even have formed directly in response to Sae losing any credit for the Kaneshiro case.
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Oct 29, 2019 10:56
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Stroth posted:That is a lot more accurate than I am comfortable with. I mean, Edgeworth is a tragic character who meant well but was twisted by the system until he finally got his head back on straight and rediscovered his ideals. That sounds like Sae. I've been in a Yugioh mood lately and I like to compare stealing Treasures to Yugi Mind Crushing Kaiba. You're basically unclogging all the evil gunk from their soul so they can start over again and properly feel and think about their actions. Of course, none of the villains are treated that sympathetically so it is different from Kaiba who we know was a victim of child abuse by a warmongering sociopath. But maybe they all had deeply awful Metal Gear Solid histories, too.
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Oct 29, 2019 11:20
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Sae would 100% have thrown Makoto onto the streets if she was gay/disabled/trans/etc..
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Oct 29, 2019 11:27
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Hey, I'm hearing rumors that some copies of Persona 5 Royal have gone out early. Any truth to that? Anyone seen anything yet?
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Oct 29, 2019 19:57
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Gen. Ripper posted:Sae would 100% have thrown Makoto onto the streets if she was gay/disabled/trans/etc.. If Sae had the keys to a space laser she would’ve destroyed the surface of the planet and everyone on it, while we’re making strange baseless hypothetical conjectures to validate our viewpoints
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Oct 29, 2019 20:02
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Man I can't find that dumb old persona video with the retiree that just wanted to be a cowboy, baby.
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Oct 29, 2019 21:17
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Gen. Ripper posted:Sae would 100% have thrown Makoto onto the streets if she was gay/disabled/trans/etc.. 
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Oct 29, 2019 21:58
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