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Rutibex posted:my nephew used to love star wars. he would dress in a jedi costume for days on end when he was a kid. but after seeing what Disney did he no longer gives two fucks about star wars. they killed it, disney is 100% to blame. Your nephew is bad
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Nov 10, 2019 16:12
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The emperor is easily defeated but as the intrepid heroes start celebration, Darth Jar Jar appears
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Nov 10, 2019 16:14
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Big Beef City posted:I pray to God every single night they bring back jarjar and turn him loose into the horned up gently caress machine he was born to be. "oh, meesa horny"
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Nov 10, 2019 16:14
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Rutibex posted:my nephew used to love star wars. he would dress in a jedi costume for days on end when he was a kid. but after seeing what Disney did he no longer gives two fucks about star wars. they killed it, disney is 100% to blame. Same thing happened to the game of thrones franchise. At one point they had four spin-offs in development and it was one of the most popular shows in history. Now, after that joke of a final season, it's basically dead. They have stopped production on all spin offs.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:20
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Horizon Burning posted:https://cosmicbook.news/george-lucas-saving-star-wars-test-screenings-disaster The only believable part of this alt-right idiot bullshit is Kathleen Kennedy getting fired from Star Wars, but that's just blatantly obvious at this point and I don't need some gross Nazi dude who talks to magical Youtubers to tell me that.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:27
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GABA ghoul posted:Same thing happened to the game of thrones franchise. At one point they had four spin-offs in development and it was one of the most popular shows in history. Now, after that joke of a final season, it's basically dead. They have stopped production on all spin offs. They went for a Targaryen prequel (which is allegedly a partial adaptation of GRRM's Dunk and Egg books), the safest, blandest option, because HBO is probably scared people are going to end their subscriptions without GoT... which is hilariously wrong because no one gives a poo poo about the franchise anymore. Even the most die-hard fans hated the ending season, which will go down as one of the worst endings in TV history.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:38
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Cough Drop The Beat posted:They went for a Targaryen prequel (which is allegedly a partial adaptation of GRRM's Dunk and Egg books), the safest, blandest option, because HBO is probably scared people are going to end their subscriptions without GoT... which is hilariously wrong because no one gives a poo poo about the franchise anymore. Even the most die-hard fans hated the ending season, which will go down as one of the worst endings in TV history. All the protagonists should've been thrown in the dungeon for laughing when Hot Pie got mugged in broad daylight
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Nov 10, 2019 16:57
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I love how every time Disney offers someone a chance to make their own Star Wars trilogy they poo poo all over whatever they're currently working on and shoot their reputation straight to hell
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Nov 10, 2019 17:31
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They should let Lucas do one to finally bury the whole franchise. it's like poetry or something.
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Nov 10, 2019 17:33
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Yaldabaoth posted:I love how every time Disney offers someone a chance to make their own Star Wars trilogy they poo poo all over whatever they're currently working on and shoot their reputation straight to hell The weirdest part of this is Knives Out, Rian Johnson's new murder mystery releasing later this month, has near universally excellent reviews from critics who saw it at Toronto International Film Festival... so maybe Disney Star Wars was doomed regardless from nonstop executive meddling and unbelievably awful prioritization of marketing opportunities and toy sales vs. the actual filmmakers who were far less relevant to its endless failures? Maybe so.
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Nov 10, 2019 17:40
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Yaldabaoth posted:I love how every time Disney offers someone a chance to make their own Star Wars trilogy they poo poo all over whatever they're currently working on and shoot their reputation straight to hell Before contract signed: "Sure you have 100% free control. Sure you can take it in any direction you want, as long as it gets seats" After contract signed: "Ok, we want a cute robot or small pet prominent for a few scenes for the toys and kid demographic. Oh and make it wisecracking. And sassy."
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Nov 10, 2019 18:04
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Cough Drop The Beat posted:The weirdest part of this is Knives Out, Rian Johnson's new murder mystery releasing later this month, has near universally excellent reviews from critics who saw it at Toronto International Film Festival... so maybe Disney Star Wars was doomed regardless from nonstop executive meddling and unbelievably awful prioritization of marketing opportunities and toy sales vs. the actual filmmakers who were far less relevant to its endless failures? Maybe so. Disney is definitely cutting open their golden goose though board (more like bored) interference, but there (IMO) are other factors at work as well. 1. JJ Abrams is a hack writer. 2. I think Rian has a very specific talent/film-making process which he was not able to use on TLJ. Rian takes other people's movies, cutting out the good parts (plots elements, characters, etc.) then mashing them all together into a "new" movie. Rian's best movie was Brick, which was 99.99% reused story and dialogue from every "hard boiled" detective/PI movie from the 1930 til the day it was released. Considering how many "who done-it" movies have been made, I assumed that he'd strike gold again with Knives Out, as there is a massive amount of material to draw from. That was method was not possible with "The Last Jedi" since he was boxed in to some degree. It's obvious that he managed to spill out of that box in a few cases (Snoke's death for example) but he was still for the most part stuck with someone else's story. He might have been able to do something with the proposed "Rian Trilogy" where he could start fresh and pull from previous sci-fi, but I guess we'll never know. I'm looking forward to Rian's next good movie that involves sampling from a genre that's been dead for 30-40 years.
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Nov 10, 2019 18:28
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I assume that Rian Johnson can be an ok filmmaker when he hasn't set out with the explicit goal of making GBS threads all over someone else's work, which is what I assume happened with TLJ. Looper was decent at least.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:42
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Rutibex posted:my nephew used to love star wars. he would dress in a jedi costume for days on end when he was a kid. but after seeing what Disney did he no longer gives two fucks about star wars. they killed it, disney is 100% to blame. This sounds more like he's just growing up, kids mature and set aside things that they used to like all the time Well, normal kids do that, anyway.
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Nov 10, 2019 20:08
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Barudak posted:KFC should have had a Porg Bucket KFC had a BSG promotion https://io9.gizmodo.com/battlestar-galacticas-frak-pack-pays-off-for-kfc-5289511
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Nov 10, 2019 20:08
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:KFC had a BSG promotion Best BSG ad tie-in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEDjAFi7oJ4
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Nov 10, 2019 20:14
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Blistex posted:Rian takes other people's movies, cutting out the good parts (plots elements, characters, etc.) then mashing them all together into a "new" movie.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:20
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That would go a ways toward explaining why TLJ fucks up a lot of very basic drama fundamentals. You don't really need to learn how they function if you're just repurposing other works where said fundamentals have already been baked in
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Nov 10, 2019 21:28
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:That would go a ways toward explaining why TLJ fucks up a lot of very basic drama fundamentals. You don't really need to learn how they function if you're just repurposing other works where said fundamentals have already been baked in Watch Brick. It's a fun, well-made movie, but you can tell that it's pulling the majority of its content, characters, and to some extent dialogue from previous films. I'm guessing 99% of the audience who saw it wouldn't pick up on what's being stolen. There was a no-name film reviewer who had some sort of photographic memory, because he basically turned his review into a, "and here is where this came from" list. He liked it in the sense that it was an enjoyable film to watch, but debated if it was an original movie at all. I think that TLJ's problem (like I said before) is that Rian was "boxed in", he was saddled with someone else's story, and tried to punch his way out. I don't think he's a good story teller, I think he can pull stories from other sourced and make them his own, but crafting something that follows a satisfying plot arc or "hero's journey?" nope. Edit: I don't know if it's me, the films I'm noticing, or true, but does it seem that the "creatives" in Hollywood are becoming a smaller and smaller group? It seems like every sci-fi/action/comedy movie of the past 15 years is written by the same 20 people. Blistex fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 21:35
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Yaldabaoth posted:So basically he takes movies and strips them of any depth and turns them into mindless spectacles that are easily digest by jaded and nihilistic audiences, sounds like the perfect explanation for how TLJ turned out. Depth... in.... Star wars....
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Nov 10, 2019 21:38
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Disney's underlying calculus for the series was wrong from the start: they bought it because they figured it could be crafted into another cinematic universe with never ending yearly releases to be milked for profit. The problem though is that Star Wars is not Marvel: it has far less material to work from, and what material is there is incredibly shallow. The world building in the OT was about as barebones as possible: there's an evil empire and a plucky rebellion who are black and white morally speaking, there are monks with laser swords who use an abstract form of magic that is only explained in the broadest possible terms, and they all fight until the good guys win. The only things to latch on to as a fan were the core cast (Luke, Leia, Han) and the iconography of cool ship designs and lightsabers. Most people were fans of that stuff, not the Star Wars "world". This is why when Lucas tried to spend time to flesh out that world in the prequels everybody hated it. For Disney then, anything they release that doesn't touch on the OT characters, iconography, or both is going to gin up gently caress all interest from audiences. But you can only do that annually for so long before it gets stale as hell. With Marvel Disney can always pull out another hero, or another existing comic's take on an already told story, or do a cross-over mash-up of heroes, etc. With Star Wars though they have one story and one set of characters to draw from, and they've seemingly already tapped the well dry.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:48
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sebmojo posted:Depth... in.... Star wars.... Hell, do you really even need depth? A well crafted story with compelling and relate-able characters is all you need.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:49
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That's a good point, the comics universe is endlessly deep with delicious nonsense, star wars is basically 1.5 good adventure films.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:50
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That doesn't explain the EU
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Nov 10, 2019 21:51
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It also helps if your attempt to push the franchise onto new ground isn't "uh... the good guys became plucky rebels again, and the bad guys have built a huge Death Star again!"
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Nov 10, 2019 21:55
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Colonel Cancer posted:That doesn't explain the EU The EU took a pretty long time to get away from the “further adventures of the Big Three” storytelling model. a LOT of it is just badly written mass market paperbacks about Luke and Han and Leia having out of character adventures with some dumb aliens the writer made up for the book who will never be mentioned again. Meanwhile the comics who could count on a niche audience were doing crazy out there stuff like Tales of the Jedi.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:56
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Yeah you can make new poo poo up out of whole cloth and set it in Star Wars if you are only going for a niche audience. Knights of the Old Republic is set far enough in the past as to have little relation to the OT outside of the Jedi/Sith/Republic, and it completely changed up ship design instead of rehasing popular ones. Thing is though that was a low budget series of cRPG's that were from the start meant for a niche market. I don't think Disney would be willing to take a similar risk for a big budget movie. e. And even then KOTOR II was Avellone back-handedly complaining to the player that the Star Wars universe is shallow and makes no sense if try to analyze it at all. Sydin fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 22:01
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Sydin posted:e. And even then KOTOR II was Avellone back-handedly complaining to the player that the Star Wars universe is shallow and makes no sense if try to analyze it at all. It was also rushed to completion for a holiday release, completely screwing up the final three or four hours of plotline and providing a pretty textbook example of situational irony
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Nov 10, 2019 22:15
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Blistex posted:Watch Brick. It's a fun, well-made movie, but you can tell that it's pulling the majority of its content, characters, and to some extent dialogue from previous films. I'm guessing 99% of the audience who saw it wouldn't pick up on what's being stolen. There was a no-name film reviewer who had some sort of photographic memory, because he basically turned his review into a, "and here is where this came from" list. He liked it in the sense that it was an enjoyable film to watch, but debated if it was an original movie at all. This narrative seems contradictory though, if the good parts of Johnson's career are based on reusing other stories then shouldn't starting from someone else's story be a normal part of his wheelhouse? TLJ seems like it's mold-breaking for Johnson. The problem wasn't that he was dealing with someone else's story; by all accounts, he basically threw out all of that poo poo anyway and Brick is basically just combining scenes from early 20th century detective movies while setting them in a high school. Perhaps if he had cribbed more from good sci-fi sources instead of trying to do his own thing that "subverts" a previous movie then it might have turned out okay. And it's not like he couldn't have cribbed from the earlier Star Wars movies, or the earlier movies that Star Wars itself was cribbed from, he simply chose not to.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:18
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skasion posted:The EU took a pretty long time to get away from the “further adventures of the Big Three” storytelling model. a LOT of it is just badly written mass market paperbacks about Luke and Han and Leia having out of character adventures with some dumb aliens the writer made up for the book who will never be mentioned again. Meanwhile the comics who could count on a niche audience were doing crazy out there stuff like Tales of the Jedi. I'll mention that I really liked the new Vader series published by Marvel, which takes place right after Ep3 and basically covers the transition from Anakin Skywalker as a whiny bitch-boy with a red lightsaber and a burn suit into Motherfucking Darth Vader
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Nov 10, 2019 22:20
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Sydin posted:Disney's underlying calculus for the series was wrong from the start: they bought it because they figured it could be crafted into another cinematic universe with never ending yearly releases to be milked for profit. The problem though is that Star Wars is not Marvel: it has far less material to work from, and what material is there is incredibly shallow. The world building in the OT was about as barebones as possible: there's an evil empire and a plucky rebellion who are black and white morally speaking, there are monks with laser swords who use an abstract form of magic that is only explained in the broadest possible terms, and they all fight until the good guys win. The only things to latch on to as a fan were the core cast (Luke, Leia, Han) and the iconography of cool ship designs and lightsabers. Most people were fans of that stuff, not the Star Wars "world". This is why when Lucas tried to spend time to flesh out that world in the prequels everybody hated it. That was Rich's take on it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4&t=628s You've got a fanbase who wants "x" (the OT). If you try giving them "x+y" (the Prequels) then they get mad because you didn't focus enough on "x". JJ gave the fans "x" with TFA, but you can only milk the exact same story for so long. Rian tried giving the fans "(x-2)+y" and it blew up in his face. Rogue one was "x", but the first 2/3rds of the movie were likely "studio-hosed". Solo was another attempt at "x" (really, not a bad one) but by this point the fans were pretty much tired of "x", or at least the versions they were being fed. I think TROS is going to have JJ doubling down on "x" but also trying to make the "y" aspects more like the OT.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:26
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Can we please just accept that Star Wars sucks and probably always has
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Nov 10, 2019 22:49
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I'm not at all convinced that it would have been impossible to make successful mass-market Star Wars movies that weren't welded to the OT, but we may never know for sure because Disney didn't even try. It's clear they viewed it not as a uniquely favorable launching pad for new stories, but as an IP to mine for valueBlistex posted:Edit: I don't know if it's me, the films I'm noticing, or true, but does it seem that the "creatives" in Hollywood are becoming a smaller and smaller group? It seems like every sci-fi/action/comedy movie of the past 15 years is written by the same 20 people. That's what happens when the decision-making system is composed from top to bottom of know-nothing failchildren whose primary job is justifying why they have a job at all. Modern studio execs have no real clue what makes movies good or bad so it's all just guessing in a way to cover your own rear end if a project goes sideways. You have to be able to go to your superiors and say "this wasn't my fault, the brand awareness score said this" or "this wasn't my fault, so-and-so writer/director/actor was successful before so I can't be blamed" The pool of bankable "creatives" is naturally gonna prune itself over time when the people responsible for giving out work are incredibly risk-averse, because there's so much poo poo that can go wrong and sink a movie that doesn't have anything to do with the creative forces behind it that even people who know what they're doing will be involved in failures eventually. To the extent that they do bring in new blood, it's less that they think fresh voices need to be sought out and more that 1) younger writers/directors will work for cheap and 2) they can be ordered around much more easily and, if push comes to shove, tossed out of the boat in a way you can't do to guys with more clout
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Nov 10, 2019 23:10
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Blistex posted:That was Rich's take on it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4&t=628s NEEEEERRRDDDD
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Nov 10, 2019 23:17
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I think the SW brand was strong enough to do something new with it. That's too risky for Disney so they went and did nothing with it. Which is too bad. The two best new movies (Rogue One and Solo) were good because they got weird. They both also had a lot of executive meddling. The new trilogy is just JJ Abrams. He likes mystery for the sake of mystery. It's good to drop hints at a larger universe (OT did that very well) but you have to have some sort of a core story as opposed to just moving set pieces around.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:38
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Sydin posted:Disney's underlying calculus for the series was wrong from the start: they bought it because they figured it could be crafted into another cinematic universe with never ending yearly releases to be milked for profit. The problem though is that Star Wars is not Marvel: it has far less material to work from, and what material is there is incredibly shallow. The world building in the OT was about as barebones as possible: there's an evil empire and a plucky rebellion who are black and white morally speaking, there are monks with laser swords who use an abstract form of magic that is only explained in the broadest possible terms, and they all fight until the good guys win. The only things to latch on to as a fan were the core cast (Luke, Leia, Han) and the iconography of cool ship designs and lightsabers. Most people were fans of that stuff, not the Star Wars "world". This is why when Lucas tried to spend time to flesh out that world in the prequels everybody hated it. The primary problem is the writing quality is garbage and the plot arcs in the sequel trilogy are middling are best. Nothing else really matters, even if you're talking about comparisons to the OT and its iconic characters. Like, if Disney hired decent enough people to work on their new Star Wars vision, it would have been fine. But Abrams is fetid trash as a creator/writer and Rian Johnson isn't anywhere near the right fit for a design-by-committee franchise. Ironically, I think it would have been fine if they gave Star Wars over to some Marvel dudes and let them run hog wild with total freedom on whatever they wanted, because Marvel directors/writers are more than adequate enough for superhero stories much of the time. Star Wars is much, much closer to action-adventure Marvel superhero stuff than actual sci-fi stuff, so that's perfectly fine. Plus you might get insanely awesome weird poo poo like Taika Watiti's Thor Ragnarok sometimes if Disney would relax a bit and let modern Star Wars be its own thing, as opposed to a shadow of the original trilogy. Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 23:54
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They gave it to JJ because he made the trek version of star wars and it was pretty entertaining. It’s just pulp sci-fi and taking it too seriously to tell a message or whatever is the wrong way to take it. The russos would have been better but they were balls deep in marvel. I’m pretty curious to see how the mandalorian does. It’s got a good cast and favreau did iron man justice. It’s the one piece I still stupidly have faith in. I know everyone shits on grimdark versions but star wars is the one franchise I think would actually be successful going that route.
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Nov 11, 2019 00:13
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If Mandalorian is basically like the bounty hunter stuff from Clone Wars, it’ll do fine. Star Wars has a lot of western DNA, a show about a gunslinger doing crime fits into it nicely. There’s no need to consider it “grimdark”.
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Nov 11, 2019 00:26
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skasion posted:If Mandalorian is basically like the bounty hunter stuff from Clone Wars, it’ll do fine. Star Wars has a lot of western DNA, a show about a gunslinger doing crime fits into it nicely. There’s no need to consider it “grimdark”. I was thinking more of the 1313 game being darker than normal before it was cancelled. Even the parts of Solo where he was infantry just getting decimated was good. I always thought the most hosed up part of the series was in ep2 when they actually showed what a real war looked like and it was just mass slaughter but no one cared because it was clones and robots.
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Nov 11, 2019 00:29
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:That's what happens when the decision-making system is composed from top to bottom of know-nothing failchildren whose primary job is justifying why they have a job at all. Modern studio execs have no real clue what makes movies good or bad so it's all just guessing in a way to cover your own rear end if a project goes sideways. You have to be able to go to your superiors and say "this wasn't my fault, the brand awareness score said this" or "this wasn't my fault, so-and-so writer/director/actor was successful before so I can't be blamed" Don't forget that the movies also have to be stripped of anything that could potentially piss off american and chinese audiences, resulting in bland, toothless pabulum that's afraid to make a statement about anything.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:17
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