Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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GHOST_BUTT: Nov 24, 2013; Fun Shoe

RBA Starblade posted:

I get the point and that they're big deal characters in the background of Battletech but lol that the Bounty Hunter Boys and Black Widow Company's Insanely Powerful Mercenaries field some hunchbacks, griffins, a flea (lol) and a PPCatapult in their missions, meanwhile I have an Atlas and an Annihilator.

Also lol at Mother Bear's drones getting hosed up by the Black Widow even faster than I did it, which was one round

I want to say that canonically the Black Widow, at the very least, fields mixed lances as well as a light scout lance because in the fiction there's an actual reason to do that. Also Hunchbacks are great though?

# ? Dec 13, 2019 20:22

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# ? May 28, 2024 12:03

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

GHOST_BUTT posted:

I want to say that canonically the Black Widow, at the very least, fields mixed lances as well as a light scout lance because in the fiction there's an actual reason to do that. Also Hunchbacks are great though?

Not compared to six ac10s erasing them they're not

# ? Dec 13, 2019 21:01

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Warmachine posted:

This line item interests me. Is that because with max salvage you can quickly get complete mechs to sell? Volume of stuff you get? Something else?

In the early game I was priorities max payout to keep the lights on, and once I got a comfortable buffer, started going with 3 salvage and the rest money so that I could reliably scoop any mechs I headcapped. As someone who appreciates walls of text and charts, I'd appreciate the explanation!

Yeah to both: its mechs to sell and volume of other stuff. This is only true if you're playing with 3 parts to salvage, but is still true whether you're playing with equipped or unequipped mechs.

Given that mechs sell for (approximately, roughly speaking) Tonnage x 10,000 (its fractionally more, as a KGC will sell for 1.1 million), that makes each mech part approximately worth tonnage x 3,300. So in assault drops (i.e. when you're farming for cbills), each mech part is worth ~250k-300k, and in light drops (i.e. at the begining of the game) they're worth ~80k-100k. In general, those values are more than what you sacrifice by shifting the salvage/cbill slider to get one more priority salvage. Additionally, each increase in priority salvage also increases the number of parts you get by random chance and the number of weapons you get (weapons/equip aren't big money like mecsh buty they do add up over time).

Combine this with the fact that salvage helps you progress faster. Sure, pure cbills can help too (especially with the shop changes), but the difference is that priority salvage ensures that you can get three parts of the same mech if you disable the pilot, which could be critical if you're lucky enough to see a WVR/SHD/Some heavy in an early mission. Also, once you start building up a supply of parts the priority salvage still gives you the money for the store, so its not like you're sacrificing anything anyway.

There are exceptions. I've seen several contracts in the recent expansion where 4 points of salvage gives you 3/X and 5 points (max) gives you like 3/X+4. In this case, I don't max salvage. However, in general, each pip of salvage that gives you at least one more priority salvage is worth it.

EDIT: RE keeping the lights on: you should always (early on) be able to complete every contract available on you starting planets. Rep hits aren't too heavy so you shouldn't have to worry about pushing any faction into "hated." The main goal is to get into the medium weight bracket (2-3 skull drops) as soon as possible. The money you get, on top of salvage, should be enough to keep you afloat as long as you're not spending months on repairs and modifications (initial modifications should just be dropping HS/JJs/Ammo for near max armor, which take 0 days). Another tip: don't always make full repairs early on to save time. E.g. if one of your mechs gets an armor breach and takes like 5-10 points of internal damage, don't spend time repairing it before fielding it again. If you can't complete the all of the missions on early worlds without taking grievous damage (i.e. lost limbs/sections), you need to revist your configurations.

Organ Fiend fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Dec 13, 2019

# ? Dec 13, 2019 21:11

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Is it wrong that I would really love a career mode that doesn't use the Argo?

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:00

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Is it wrong that I would really love a career mode that doesn't use the Argo?

There is a mod for this IIRC

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:04

Patrat: Feb 14, 2012

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Is it wrong that I would really love a career mode that doesn't use the Argo?

A career mode where you have a Union or something would be great, though difficult to implement when you by default seem to insert/extract via a leopard.

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:05

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Is it wrong that I would really love a career mode that doesn't use the Argo?

I get that feeling, in my mind the story of the Argo is tied up with the story of the Aranos so while having it as the home base in the career mode makes sense from a gameplay perspective, it does feel a bit of a handwave fluffwise.

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:06

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

Is there a mod that adds all the cool 3025-3049 mechs from the CAB without messing that much with the game itself? Loving BE3025 Commander's Edition (which is the only version that is updated at the moment) but everything else it adds just exacerbates the memory leaks issues that seem to plague this game, so I'm getting crashes every 30 or so minutes. Is JK_Variants what I'm looking for?

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:13

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Dont the 3025 guys make the 3049 mod too?

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:16

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Patrat posted:

A career mode where you have a Union or something would be great, though difficult to implement when you by default seem to insert/extract via a leopard.

Changing the model to a Union wouldn't be hard. They already have them in the game.

# ? Dec 13, 2019 22:28

Psycho Landlord: Oct 10, 2012; What are you gonna do, dance with me?

Changing the animation might be, though, and a Union doing the touch and go the leopard does could look real fuckin weird.

# ? Dec 13, 2019 23:41

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

They have a union landing animation tho

# ? Dec 13, 2019 23:49

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

The Union model might not be as detailed for the campaign screens

# ? Dec 14, 2019 00:11

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Xarbala posted:

I get that feeling, in my mind the story of the Argo is tied up with the story of the Aranos so while having it as the home base in the career mode makes sense from a gameplay perspective, it does feel a bit of a handwave fluffwise.

My head canon is that career mode is an alternate reality where the Arano Restoration still won the civil war, but never employed the remains of Marhan's Marauders (the PC's unit) ... i.e. the PC from career doesn't exist. Because of this, they don't have the argo, never discovered that the Directorate was behind the chemical attack on the TC (which is why the TC is still enemies with the Restoration, and why there are still Directorate forces within the restoration), never discovered the bunker on Artru, etc.

The PC in Career is some rich noble from wherever that learned about the Argo somehow, and bought it because they figured it would be a good platform for the mercenary unit they wanted to form for whatever reason.

Alternately, I'm pretty sure that they say somewhere in the campaign that two ships like the Argo were built. This could be the other one.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 01:26

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

SirFozzie posted:

Wow, I thought it would be before the end of the year.. I didn't expect it today

(BTE3025 1.8 is out, supports years 3025-3057, no clans yet)

BattleTech Extended 3025-3057 Commander's Edition 1.8.0.0

REQUIRES MODTEK (included in the zip, thanks CMiSSioN) - Do not use the in game mod launcher for this mod as it needs some fixes
REQUIRES FUNKY INSTALLATION Follow the procedure below or you will see weirdness
No Clans yet...
Save game compatible with old Commander's Edition saves. Extended CE is not compatible with vanilla game saves.
Thank you to Shadowfox who generously gifted me the Heavy Metal expansion so I could get developing as soon as possible.

The Heavy Metal, 1.8 version of the Extended Commander's Edition mod is here.
Major new features:

Start your career from 3025 until 3057
Choose the amount of new level 2 you want in your game by the year you start in.
Mech rarity per faction is calculated for the exact date when you go on a mission, as mechs roll off the production lines and are released they will change in commonality following the lore.
No Clans yet, this is entirely the Inner Sphere.
Start your game in 3025 and you will have the low tech version you were used to before.

Major rework of what technology is around
Balanced versions of new tech from Heavy Metal are around in the correct era, depending what year you start your game as. Powerful versions of weapons are Star League era versions and are suitably rare. Out of timeline weapons or items and invented stuff such as Coils are even rarer but maybe if you are lucky you may find one on a research planet.
If you are playing at a later date look out for the non Star League versions of UAC 5s, LB10Xs etc. that the major houses are slowly introducing. These will provide different build and role options for your mechs without being just straight up better.

We have the technology
All level 2 technology from the lore and tabletop is around in the correct times. Countless new mechs since the last version, ok I counted, 140+ new variants. Countless new level 2 tech weapons that are side grades from 3025 tech, with their own +/++/+++ versions to find. New tech weapons provide a different role.
Not just what Heavy Metal provided, we have Streak SRMs, Artemis IV SRMs/LRMs. AMS/MASC/ECM/BAP/CASE. XL Engines, Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrous.

This isn't a one to one translation from the Tabletop
The translation fits the HBS game in a fun adding way. Mech builds are from the tabletop, and the factions are using what they should be using but changes were made for gameplay reasons. Double Heat Sink engines provide -40 heat sinking instead of -30 so that heat it still a concept in the game for example. If you want to play in Tech level 2 periods you can find those better mechs out there, but we aren't seeing Clan level leaps in power.

Even more balanced than before
Multiple subtle changes help bring some of the outlying things in line. Subtle changes include optimal weapon range being slightly more important, support weapons are slightly less accurate to hit the god tier support weapon boats. Hard difficulty and Simulation mode has been made slightly harder. New Heavy Metal items are all reworked to fit the balance from before. You wont see a huge nerf hammer on your favourite thing unless it is from Heavy Metal.
Heavy Metal has been hit with a nerf hammer hard. The main culprits have been whacked. You will still see lots of toys introduced from the Expansion, but don't expect to be using 125 damage snub nose PPCs in this mod.
HBS fixed item quirks have been adjusted to be more subtle and to sit nicely with the Quirk system Extended already has. Some have seen no change, others have been removed such as the Marauder Command Console as the quirks from Extended already covered it's Command Mech role and had a more interesting gameplay impact.

Major work on the Inner Sphere map
Shops are distibuted with the new Heavy Metal system all over the map. This includes Major Faction shops.
Contract employers are intelligent all over the map whether you use Galaxy at War or not.
When you start you will begin down south no matter the faction you choose so the Flashpoints are easily available, but you are free to travel the entire Inner Sphere.

Changes for players to note:
Roll the game on by one day when you first start to be able to select the year to start your game in, if you do a contract without this you will be using 3025 tables.
Mech kills after a mission might display a red mech icon, it is a mech kill awarded from the enemy ejecting.
Lowered crit chances of items in the Center Torso to be more in line with Tabletop's 12 slots for the CT location compared to HBS 4 so stock mechs like the Thunderbolt, Phoenixhawk and Warhammer aren't quite so unintentionally vulnerable.
Shots outside of optimum range are slightly less accurate.
The Heavy Metal loot crate has been left in, take the contents if you are wet and want a los tech head start.
Shops use the new Heavy Metal system but with different distribution on Research and SLDF planets, check the descriptions for them filters.

For new players:
Remember to hover over pilots and mechs portraits to see quirks that will affect your game. In the mech lab hover over the Stock Role description.
You can take fatigued pilots in to missions, it really isn't a big deal, just sub optimal and rewards having and rotating more pilots. It's cheaper to have more pilots, lower pilot maintenance costs and cheaper pilot space argo upgrades.

FAQ:
Q What year should I start my game?
A
* 3025 is how you have experienced before, level 1 Tech, with super rare chances of los tech.
* 3049 is much like 3025, the Inner Sphere really hasn't changed much but it is right at the cusp of things changing and Helm rediscovered technology is slowly filtering in. Expect level 2 tech to be pretty rare finds.
* 3053 The IS is starting to look a bit different. Not overwhelmingly so. If you are fighting one of the 5 major houses expect to see level 2 tech every other mission. If you play a long campaign things are going to be changing a fare amount.
* 3057 The IS has seen a large change. While we still have a lot of the level 1 tech mechs out there level 2 tech is much more of a common sight. You are not going to see level 2 every mission, but there is plenty to find.
Also note Pirates and periphery factions are very unlikely to use level 2 tech, it's possible because of salvage mechs, but expect tons of Wasp 1As and Griffin 1Ns. The major houses aren't sharing.
If you started your game in 3025 and somehow played until the clock went to 3057 it would be the same in your game as if you started in 3057, but bare in mind the sphere barely changes between 3025 and 3049.

Q Can I change engines?
A If that is your thing, try other mods. Extended goes for making each mech feel like owning something different in the game, it's more in keeping with the majority of the lore that customization is limited and barely happens in the era, and makes Pokemechs more fun. If I can turn a Pikachu PKC-1 in to a Bulbasaur BUB-3X you gain something, but lose something in gameplay also.

INSTALLATION if it fails check each instruction carefully
If you have installed any mods to the HBS mod folder, disable loading mods in game and remove them from the HBS mod directory. If you have no mods installed ignore this step.
Now if you have anything in the \Steam\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\Mods\ folder, clean it out or it will cause you issues.
Download the zip file for Extended 3025-3057 CE for Battletech 1.8 and extract the contents to \Steam\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\Mods\
Download the full Community Asset Bundle https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/393?tab=files and install. The Install procedure will involve installing to the same mentioned Mods directory. At time of writing the version is 4.9.1. DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE 3025 SINGLE FOLDER CAB, it has to be the main file called CommunityAssetBundle.
IMPORTANT - Now you need to remove the old CAB mech mods from your \Mods\ directory that are included in Heavy Metal. The directory names will start with bd, colo, or hotd.
So they will be directories for Archer, Rifleman, Omnihammer. Gotta zap 'em all.
If you don't remove them you will cause all sorts of errors.
Go in to the \Steam\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\Mods\ModTek\ folder and run the ModTekInjector.exe

Now you are installed.
When you boot the game you should see Modtek 0.7.6 appear on the screen. And when you get to the main menu you will see the BattleTech - Extended Commander's Edition logo. If not you messed up on one of the instructions.

I ended up uninstalling this as I really dislike the janky new mechs that are made from recycled art (or just re-sized existing mechs). Are there any good balance/gameplay mods that don't add jank?

# ? Dec 14, 2019 02:26

Warmachine: Jan 30, 2012

Sometimes the game throws 3 lances of assaults at you at the same time.

Other times, the game drops a King Crab all alone in the middle of a map with almost no armor for you to headcap and take home. :toot:

# ? Dec 14, 2019 02:37

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

Warmachine posted:

Sometimes the game throws 3 lances of assaults at you at the same time.

Other times, the game drops a King Crab all alone in the middle of a map with almost no armor for you to headcap and take home.

For sale a King Crab, never supported

# ? Dec 14, 2019 02:41

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

I ended up uninstalling this as I really dislike the janky new mechs that are made from recycled art (or just re-sized existing mechs). Are there any good balance/gameplay mods that don't add jank?

I guess you could just try to identify some of the component mods and grab them a la carte, but as far as art jank in large-scope overhauls go BT Expanded CE probably has the least of it. Guess how many different mechs the King Crab model fills in for in Roguetech, for example.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 04:15

Rorahusky: Nov 12, 2012; Transform and waaauuuugh out!

PoptartsNinja posted:

I am fairly certain the Black Market invite doesn't pop up until you have Mechbay 2, I can't confirm that pirates won't offer you access if you bottom out their bar (I think they won't) but I know even if they hate you a lot they'll still make the offer (at a greatly increased fee, of course). I push for Mechbay 2 hard in the early game now.

I've gotten Black Market invites on the very first month without having Mechbay 2. in fact, my current run is kind of absurd because I'm only on my third planet and half my 'Mechs are totting +++ Ultra ACs and LBXs with damage up, recoil reductions, tonnage reductions, and other really nifty things. I even recently got an Orion off an Assassinate mission that I managed to pop the pilot out of because of all my ridiculous shotguns.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:49

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

Just got the Bull Shark finally, and the game's backstory for it was pretty interesting. It also kinda justifies why you pretty much need Clantech to even come close to recreating it on Megamek.

Have there been new Mechs introduced in other battletech/mechwarrior games that never made it into an official TRO?

# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:20

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

I wanna say a lot of the stuff from Mech Assault never got any official stats (because it's ridiculous)?

# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:37

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

I know that MW4 MekTek added some homebrew Mechs, and some of them made the jump over to canon, but I'm not sure if there are any that didn't.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:38

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

DatonKallandor posted:

I wanna say a lot of the stuff from Mech Assault never got any official stats (because it's ridiculous)?

I enjoyed kneecapping atlases with the uziel with double gauss rifles

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:05

Q_res: Oct 29, 2005; We're fucking built for this shit!

Isn't the MW4 Hellspawn completely different from the tabletop Hellspawn? That would sort of count, I think.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:14

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Sky Shadowing posted:

I know that MW4 MekTek added some homebrew Mechs, and some of them made the jump over to canon, but I'm not sure if there are any that didn't.

Mektek added like 50 homebrew mechs, only 2 got made official that i know of

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:23

DeepThrobble: Sep 18, 2006

Yeah, I think it was only the Omen/Deimos that got in. Most of them remain non-canon.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:32

Rorahusky: Nov 12, 2012; Transform and waaauuuugh out!

So, I found a U/AC2++ with +damage and -tonnage, making it deal 35 and weigh only 5 tons, so now my Phoenix Hawk is a long distance jumpy rear end in a top hat who skirts around the edge of the battlefield pumping out 42x2 shots, it's great.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:38

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Q_res posted:

Isn't the MW4 Hellspawn completely different from the tabletop Hellspawn? That would sort of count, I think.

The MW4 Thanatos is completely different, but I think the Hellspawn is close, if not the same

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:40

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Rorahusky posted:

So, I found a U/AC2++ with +damage and -tonnage, making it deal 35 and weigh only 5 tons, so now my Phoenix Hawk is a long distance jumpy rear end in a top hat who skirts around the edge of the battlefield pumping out 42x2 shots, it's great.

Yeah the greatest asset of the new lbx and ultras is making them do double the damage of the regular ACs for the same weight. If the ac5 was doing the lbx5s damage it would actually be worth taking sometimes

# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:45

Warmachine: Jan 30, 2012

Rorahusky posted:

So, I found a U/AC2++ with +damage and -tonnage, making it deal 35 and weigh only 5 tons, so now my Phoenix Hawk is a long distance jumpy rear end in a top hat who skirts around the edge of the battlefield pumping out 42x2 shots, it's great.

I allied with Davion and now I have an Annhilator with 4 (soon to be five) UAC5++, and a King Crab with 2 UAC20++

The crab alone can core anything through the front armor with a single called shot. And the sound effects are so satisfying.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 17:15

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

COIL-L is immensely satisfying.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:10

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

MWO has a couple of non-canon mechs like the Roughneck IIRC?

Azran fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 14, 2019

# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:19

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Azran posted:

MWO has a couple of non-canons mechs like the Roughneck IIRC?

Yeah 3 or 4

# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:21

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

I was about to argue that the Roughneck was canon when I realized it was canon only in PTN-verse. :pseudo:

I fired up MCG Darkest Hours for old times' sake, and now I hope the HBS game (or any sequels) gets reworked into an RTS.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:26

Black Griffon: Mar 12, 2005; Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are. You are destiny.

There's way more custom difficulty settings than last time I played (I think? or maybe I just missed them), and I'd love to hear some opinions on what works for you.

I was thinking something like this for a run at the campaign that's a little more dangerous but also a little more generous, without going all hardcore and poo poo. Opinions?

# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:51

CommunityEdition: May 1, 2009

anakha posted:

I was about to argue that the Roughneck was canon when I realized it was canon only in PTN-verse.

I fired up MCG Darkest Hours for old times' sake, and now I hope the HBS game (or any sequels) gets reworked into an RTS.

I call your RTS and raise you �whatever pseudo RTS/looter RPG-lite/whatever Dawn of War 2 was.�

# ? Dec 14, 2019 19:03

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

CommunityEdition posted:

I call your RTS and raise you “whatever pseudo RTS/looter RPG-lite/whatever Dawn of War 2 was.”

The best game.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 19:29

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

I ended up uninstalling this as I really dislike the janky new mechs that are made from recycled art (or just re-sized existing mechs). Are there any good balance/gameplay mods that don't add jank?

The only two complete package mods are Roguetech & Extended, anything else and you're on your own for adding bits together from smaller mod parts.

If you just want more mechs to show up in missions so you're not seeing the same stuff all the time, JK Variants has a zillion additional variations on the mechs that are already in the game.

Black Griffon posted:

I was thinking something like this for a run at the campaign that's a little more dangerous but also a little more generous, without going all hardcore and poo poo. Opinions?

Push up the # of mech parts needed for assembly. It's a good overall change that makes cheesy headcapping a bit less tempting and balances the cash vs salvage decision a bit more. With generous salvage you'll be rolling in mechs anyways.

Mech destruction is rarely dangerous unless you're fielding stock 2Ds or otherwise stripping armor. I've had CT in low structure a handful of times, but don't think more than 1 get cored by CT loss. (Of course, when playing the game before that was an option it wasn't as memorable.) And I don't even max armor on all mechs! Like, if you actually needed extra salvage to compensate for mechs lost in battle there's something very wrong with your mechs or tactics.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 19:50

Black Griffon: Mar 12, 2005; Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are. You are destiny.

So is mech destruction interesting, to put it that way?

And other than that, up parts required to uuuh 5 and keep the rest as it is?

# ? Dec 14, 2019 19:57

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# ? May 28, 2024 12:03

Q_res: Oct 29, 2005; We're fucking built for this shit!

Mech Destruction makes the Eject button something you'll actually have to use at some point and can sometimes leave you in a situation of activating and using a Mech you might otherwise never actually use. So I think it makes it interesting. Also I like 4 pieces to make a Mech because it means double-legging something gives you half a Mech, but I've never played with Generous Salvage either.

# ? Dec 14, 2019 20:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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