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Retarded Goatee posted:Did they ever stop trying to poo poo up the SPD for long enough to form a coherent policy package? they were pretty much killing each other in the streets, it wasn't exactly conductive to coalition building lol also for the KPD revolution pretty much was their policy package
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Mar 18, 2020 12:48
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Retarded Goatee posted:Did they ever stop trying to poo poo up the SPD for long enough to form a coherent policy package? Going to join the chorus of "poo poo was a two way straight, don't kid on the SPD were somehow not responsible for literally setting the Freikorps on the USPD/KPD", Ebert/Noske, literally class traitors. Remember when Eugen Levine, leader of the Bavarian Council Republic, was shot by firing squad whereas Hitler spent 8 months in jail for the Beer Hall Putsch. gently caress the SPD
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Mar 18, 2020 13:17
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gently caress the SPD, now and forever.
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Mar 18, 2020 13:55
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Orange Devil posted:gently caress the SPD, now and forever.
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Mar 18, 2020 13:55
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Orange Devil posted:gently caress the SPD, now and forever.
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Mar 18, 2020 13:57
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Orange Devil posted:gently caress the SPD, now and forever. Food banks have closed due to Corona, so now there is nothing to mitigate the - recently confirmed as unconstitutional - universal credit system the SPD implemented and administers in Germany. Even as a junior partner the SPD's bodycount only goes up, up, up.
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Mar 18, 2020 15:23
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Venomous posted:The entire talk is absolutely worth a watch, but that part has always stuck in my mind. Austerity breeds fascism, all the time. Sure but it's not like Fascism was some isolated event in Germany at the time. There was also fascist or at least fascistoid Italy, Spain, Austria, Portugal, Greece and Yugoslavia. The nazis didn't exactly have a problem finding foreign volunteers for their armies and kill squads either which implies some degree of wider popular support. Rather than looking for the root causes of fascist sentiments by arbitrarily examining just Germany it's probably more sensible to look at Europe more generally.
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Mar 18, 2020 17:49
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it's class war, op
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Mar 18, 2020 18:11
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Owling Howl posted:Sure but it's not like Fascism was some isolated event in Germany at the time. There was also fascist or at least fascistoid Italy, Spain, Austria, Portugal, Greece and Yugoslavia. The nazis didn't exactly have a problem finding foreign volunteers for their armies and kill squads either which implies some degree of wider popular support. Rather than looking for the root causes of fascist sentiments by arbitrarily examining just Germany it's probably more sensible to look at Europe more generally. Oh, I completely agree. I wasn't trying to create some sort of generalised route to fascism by isolating Germany's history, I was adding onto the discussion about austerity being horrible by saying it contributed to the rise of fascism in Germany. I'm not saying 'all fascist countries experienced periods of austerity', I'm just saying austerity can and often does lead to fascism, especially when there isn't a powerful opposing narrative to counteract it. Venomous fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 18, 2020 |
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Mar 18, 2020 18:17
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Truga posted:it's class war, op This. Italian blackshirts were basically thug hit squads that landowners and factory owners used to sic on trade unionists and cooperativist farmers. The fascist party collected substantial financing from latifundists and large businesses because they opposed the Communist party in a time when it was getting too uppity for its own good. Doesn't get more class-war-y than that.
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Mar 18, 2020 18:50
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GABA ghoul posted:You can spin it however you like, as an immigrant, I can tell you that nothing but the end of a rifle could ever force me to live in a German village. The amount of bigotry and nativism creeps the everliving poo poo out of me. At best, you are always just "one of the good ones". It's downright oppressive. We have huge labor shortages in rural areas all across the country and have had a lot of programs to try to attract desperate young people from other EU countries and the results are always the same. They stay for a couple of months, get depressed and horrified and run for the hills. It doesn't work out.  so loving true V. Illych L. posted:i mean i'm talking from a norwegian perspective here but in the sixties and seventies we had educated young people moving from the cities to smaller towns etc and settling down, it's eminently achievable if one enacts appropriate policy but why is pointing the money hose at villages/small towns the goal we should pursue, instead of pointing the money hose at whatever way of life is actually ecologically sustainable even if you personally think cities are ugly or uncultured or whatever
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Mar 18, 2020 19:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:
We should find ways to make multiple ways of life as ecologically sustainable as possible, because human happiness is itself a worthy goal to pursue and must be balanced against other considerations, and everyone likes different things.
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Mar 18, 2020 19:43
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PT6A posted:We should find ways to make multiple ways of life as ecologically sustainable as possible, because human happiness is itself a worthy goal to pursue and must be balanced against other considerations, and everyone likes different things. yeah but until you hit a threshold where efficiencies of scale have largely happened (probably somewhere around living in a small-medium town), country life is inherently less sustainable due to increased land use and extra resources/energy required due to duplicated infrastructure if you want to live on a country estate for the hell of it you gotta pay environmental damage tax for that country estate either directly or through not getting the money hose (you may, if applicable, seek relief by doing ecologically-beneficial forms of land use) and if you're a farmer then it should be priced into your product to stop making everyone pay for your externalities
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Mar 18, 2020 19:46
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suck my woke dick posted:and if you're a farmer then it should be priced into your product to stop making everyone pay for your externalities capital idea, that will allow them to be priced out of competition by farmers from China, Brazil and Malaysia, who are so much better than us at not damaging the environment. Plus stuff like battery farming which are also so much better for the environment because decreased land use and less redundant infrastructure it's obvious it's better, what do you mean the pig piss is so concentrated it causes toxic algae bloom
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Mar 18, 2020 20:36
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suck my woke dick posted:yeah but until you hit a threshold where efficiencies of scale have largely happened (probably somewhere around living in a small-medium town), country life is inherently less sustainable due to increased land use and extra resources/energy required due to duplicated infrastructure Theres a pretty big difference between normal/most people's "country life" that people are defending and "living on a country estate". I don't think anyone is going to argue that everyone living in aristocratic landed mansions is in anyway sustainable. Country life in medium sized houses in/near towns/villages of 1,500-10,000 people is a lot more common, fits the "rural idyllic" in most people's minds, and is fairly sustainable. Its generally a good compromise of quiet life in the countryside, having lots of access to green areas, but while also having a concentration of services in the village.
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Mar 18, 2020 20:40
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no, it's more ecologically sustainable to build a single giant capsule hotel and park all 8 billion humans in it even more sustainable if you then drop a nuke on it
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Mar 18, 2020 22:51
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Cat Mattress posted:no, it's more ecologically sustainable to build a single giant capsule hotel and park all 8 billion humans in it Is this a judge Dredd reference Also the idea some people itt have about not living in a city better describes a hermit than your usual countryside citizen. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Mar 18, 2020 |
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Mar 18, 2020 23:08
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Cat Mattress posted:capital idea, that will allow them to be priced out of competition by farmers from China, Brazil and Malaysia, who are so much better than us at not damaging the environment. There is such a thing as import tariffs. One might try to set them depending on how terribad the imported product is for the environment, amounting to a ban on particularly poo poo producers. Also, yes, 500 million battery chickens will destroy the environment less than 500 million free range chickens. Spreading the resulting sludge out over a wider area doesn't make it better at the scales we're talking about (also note that due to how much animal rights attention batteries attracted any battery that would still be legal to operate in a developed country would actually be better for the chickens than eg barn keeping). If you object to 0.5 gigachicken in batteries then your issue is with 0.5 gigachicken, not that they're in batteries.
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Mar 19, 2020 01:41
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Cat Mattress posted:capital idea, that will allow them to be priced out of competition by farmers from China, Brazil and Malaysia, who are so much better than us at not damaging the environment. suck my woke dick posted:Also, yes, 500 million battery chickens will destroy the environment less than 500 million free range chickens. Spreading the resulting sludge out over a wider area doesn't make it better at the scales we're talking about (also note that due to how much animal rights attention batteries attracted any battery that would still be legal to operate in a developed country would actually be better for the chickens than eg barn keeping). If you object to 0.5 gigachicken in batteries then your issue is with 0.5 gigachicken, not that they're in batteries. That said, if you started to mandate reed bed treatment systems or things like that for every farm you might have more luck in a more decentralized system? Not sure how they scale, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be more efficient at a sort of medium size. Plus a bunch of smaller ones are probably better in terms of biodiversity, instead of creating just a few massive impassable boundaries of monoculture.
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Mar 19, 2020 08:01
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suck my woke dick posted:Also, yes, 500 million battery chickens will destroy the environment less than 500 million free range chickens. Spreading the resulting sludge out over a wider area doesn't make it better at the scales we're talking about (also note that due to how much animal rights attention batteries attracted any battery that would still be legal to operate in a developed country would actually be better for the chickens than eg barn keeping). If you object to 0.5 gigachicken in batteries then your issue is with 0.5 gigachicken, not that they're in batteries. Yeah so a study came out yesterday that said Dutch megabarns (which are some of the largest megabarns in the world) are somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10 times more likely to catch fire than smaller barns. A million animals burned to death in the Netherlands due to this in 2018. So... no.
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Mar 19, 2020 08:50
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I feel like that should buy you at least enough divine intervention to sort this plague out.
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Mar 19, 2020 09:03
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We didn't even save up enough gold to rush buy new hospitals
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Mar 19, 2020 09:11
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Rush gold you say? quote:ECB to launch €750bn bond-buying programme Money for the money gods! Honestly I'm not opposed to any of this, but it would be much more helpful if EU states all did what Denmark did and guarantee salaries and suspend rents. Once people start being evicted in the middle of this crisis it's gonna be nasty beyond belief.
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Mar 19, 2020 09:18
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Junior G-man posted:Rush gold you say? AFAIK Italy has also just recently suspended mortgages, rents and deferred taxes. Also for all legitimately employed (long story) who are unable to work there should be state-guaranteed worker's comp at 80% salary.
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Mar 19, 2020 09:23
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I wonder if anyone is going to conclude from all this that landlords are parasites who don't contribute anything to society and we can function better without them, actually.
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Mar 19, 2020 09:58
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Orange Devil posted:I wonder if anyone is going to conclude from all this that landlords are parasites who don't contribute anything to society and we can function better without them, actually. Beyond this forum and maybe a few other lefty spots on the old world wide web? No. It's those unable to work, fleeing war or extreme poverty or those who don't make kissy faces at the capitalist overlords who are the real parasites.
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Mar 19, 2020 10:17
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So the ECB is purchasing more sovereign bonds. What about oil company debt like during QE? And will they buy stocks? Ibreally thought Deutsche bank was keeling over this time, but the more timid money hose (hasnt the us thrown $3tn at the stock market?) Makes me wonder if the problem is on the other side of the Atlantic.
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Mar 19, 2020 10:19
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Orange Devil posted:I wonder if anyone is going to conclude from all this that landlords are parasites who don't contribute anything to society and we can function better without them, actually. Whenever this is all over, it's gonna be really, really impressive to see how fast capital and its media handmaidens are gonna work to put the genie back in the bottle and pretend that landlords, zero hours, high utility costs, and privatised healthcare are actually good.
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Mar 19, 2020 10:38
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Orange Devil posted:Yeah so a study came out yesterday that said Dutch megabarns (which are some of the largest megabarns in the world) are somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10 times more likely to catch fire than smaller barns. A million animals burned to death in the Netherlands due to this in 2018. So... no. Just a purely anecdotal observation but to me it looks like more and more info like this is coming out in the last few years. Stuff that's throwing shade on the idea of centralization being always good or more efficient. I also remember a finnish study that took into account things like the carbon impact of consumption and stuff like "shared utilities" like malls, restaurants and public transport and flying. And found that people in the metropoles, in Finland at least, have a higher carbon footprint because they consume more services and goods. People in the countryside have got to drive more, but they shop less, they go to restaurants, movies and malls much less, don't use the citys public transport, generally have less money for consumption left over from lower wages outside the cities. And they fly abroad less. All in all this meant their carbon footprints were lower, per capita. Consumption patterns is something this study was a pioneer in and something that's still quite overlooked when doing these lifestyle comparisons.
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Mar 19, 2020 10:47
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His Divine Shadow posted:Just a purely anecdotal observation but to me it looks like more and more info like this is coming out in the last few years. Stuff that's throwing shade on the idea of centralization being always good or more efficient. Diseconomies of scale is a real thing. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseconomies_of_scale
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Mar 19, 2020 10:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You're obviously being sarcastic here, so you're kinda defeating your own argument? If Chinese products are environmentally damaging then they'd also get slapped with taxes that'd make European products competitive again. Oh yeah? Who's gonna tax the Chinese farms? Who's gonna measure how much they pollute to assess how much they should be taxed? If China does it, they'll cheat. It Europe does it, China will retaliate.
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Mar 19, 2020 11:01
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https://twitter.com/carolynnlook/status/1240566290617638912?s=21 so it seems the ECB is making some moves while leaving things such as rates, credits cuts and taxes to each central bank/government to manage. Seems good? I barely understand it but it makes me - the regular citizen - more hopeful that things are moving so that’s good? 
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Mar 19, 2020 11:40
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"The ECB also decided to expand the range of assets eligible for purchase to non-financial commercial paper and to ease its collateral standards to allow banks to raise money against more of their assets, including corporate finance claims" L M A O Ok sure why the gently caress not
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Mar 19, 2020 12:04
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:"The ECB also decided to expand the range of assets eligible for purchase to non-financial commercial paper and to ease its collateral standards to allow banks to raise money against more of their assets, including corporate finance claims" this will surely have no repercussions down the road
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Mar 19, 2020 12:05
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Yes what could go wrong in the face of the global recession-tsunami headed our way
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Mar 19, 2020 12:05
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Just helicopter money straight to the people.
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Mar 19, 2020 12:09
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Merkel said this is the biggest challenge since WW2. You know what won WW2? Planned economies did. The Soviets, the Brits and the Americans went full planned economy throughout the entire war and that poo poo worked*. Every day our leaders don't realize this is a day wasted. Abolish the market and direct resources straight to where they are needed. *For comparison, the Nazi's didn't go full planned economy until 1942, at which point they managed to triple arms production before late '44 even in spite of the strategic bombing the Allies were doing (sidenote: strategic bombing is dumb as hell and never accomplishes any of its stated objectives in any war it's been tried) and that's with the Nazi party and economic structure being a complete disorganized mess intentionally designed to spark competition and duplication of effort. So like, even a lovely planned economy worked three times better. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Mar 19, 2020 |
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Mar 19, 2020 12:12
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Orange Devil posted:*For comparison, the Nazi's didn't go full planned economy until 1942, at which point they managed to triple arms production before late '44 even in spite of the strategic bombing the Allies were doing (sidenote: strategic bombing is dumb as hell and never accomplishes any of its stated objectives in any war it's been tried) and that's with the Nazi party and economic structure being a complete disorganized mess intentionally designed to spark competition and duplication of effort. So like, even a lovely planned economy worked three times better. I wouldn't quite call the German economy a market economy though. It was very much driven by military procurement which essentially worked to suck up almost all of Germany's industrial manufacture, which tanked German exports and left the economy utterly starved of foreign currency reserves. 1942 is more the date from which the Germans begin to actually mobilize their economy towards total war, because before this many of the top Nazis, including Hitler, had been very wary of disrupting the civilian economy too much, because they largely sincerly bought into the stab-in-the-back myth and believed that civilian dissent (driven by those Jewish Bolsheviks and war-profiteers) as a result of deprivation was one of the primary reasons Germany had lost the last war. There are other reasons (besides the Third Reich's insitutional chaos) also why the German economy never managed to be as efficient as their enemies (particularly the Americans and Soviets), and a large part of the reason is that German manufacturing was relatively old-fashioned in its organization and the layout of its factories, and they weren't truly capable of assembly line mass production in the same manner (the Soviets had actually invited and employed many of the best American industrial architects to design and organize their factories in the 20s and 30s) as they were.
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Mar 19, 2020 12:35
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His Divine Shadow posted:Just helicopter money straight to the people. This. If demand is the issue (as its going to be this/next month) then helicopter money is the fastest way to get people to actually spend, given anywhere up to 70% of the population even in richer countries have less than €1,000 in savings. Plus its just morally the right thing to do - it'll help stop people who're now out of work worrying about food, or rent, money for at least a few weeks. Hong Kong gave every adult citizen $1200usd recently. And if the god drat Trump administration of all people can see the benefits of this, and is planning on going ahead with it, then we really should be doing the same.
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Mar 19, 2020 12:44
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seems that EUR/USD crashed after the news from ECB and everyone buying dollars, have no idea what this will mean to me in a parallel EU currency vs EUR
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Mar 19, 2020 12:53
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