|
Jagged Jim posted:
|
# ? Apr 5, 2020 20:40 |
|
|
# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:14 |
|
No that caused coronavirus. Amanda Holden said so.
|
# ? Apr 5, 2020 20:42 |
|
Soviet Commubot posted:I wonder where Trump and by extension the conspiratorial right got the idea that hydroxochloroquine is their magic miracle drug. I saw people both in the US and France posting about it in the days before Trump latched onto it, I'd imagine someone in his orbit mentioned because they saw it on Infowars or Qanon forums or something. In short, a guy who has co-signed thousands of medical papers and is a kind of celebrity medical expert, recognized in some part by earlier french governments, presented another study he co-signed that said it had some effect. There are at least three issues with what I just wrote that should throw up warning flags to anyone who knows how papers, let alone medical ones, work. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 5, 2020 |
# ? Apr 5, 2020 20:55 |
|
evilmiera posted:In short, a guy who has co-signed thousands of medical papers and is a kind of celebrity medical expert, recognized in some part by earlier french governments, presented another study he co-signed that said it had some effect. Yeah. There was a flawed study (Miracle drug cures 70%* of patients with a disease 80% recover from with no treatment!), it started circulating in certain online circles, someone showed it to Trump, and he decided to announce it because "A cure has been found!" makes a great soundbite. And then people started dying because it's a dangerous drug that may literally be worse for you than Covid-19 itself. *If you don't count the ones who died. Bremen fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 5, 2020 |
# ? Apr 5, 2020 21:39 |
|
British PM Boris Johnson admitted to hospital for tests over ‘persistent’ coronavirus symptoms Kind of a boring thread but it did contain this glorious bit of quote:To: NRx
|
# ? Apr 5, 2020 23:52 |
|
The French chloroquine doctor:
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 00:52 |
|
Bremen posted:Yeah. There was a flawed study (Miracle drug cures 70%* of patients with a disease 80% recover from with no treatment!), it started circulating in certain online circles, someone showed it to Trump, and he decided to announce it because "A cure has been found!" makes a great soundbite. Edit: Turns out the info I was given was either bad or incomplete. See later posts for better info! In short, there were issues with the control groups, or they had opposite results from the researchers were going for. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Apr 6, 2020 |
# ? Apr 6, 2020 01:39 |
|
I would blow Dane Cook posted:The French chloroquine doctor: Netflix Gandalf.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 01:43 |
|
I would blow Dane Cook posted:The French chloroquine doctor: It's like they just glom onto anyone who looks like that quack doctor of Trump's.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 01:58 |
|
Bremen posted:Yeah. There was a flawed study (Miracle drug cures 70%* of patients with a disease 80% recover from with no treatment!), it started circulating in certain online circles, someone showed it to Trump, and he decided to announce it because "A cure has been found!" makes a great soundbite. The rumour is that Elon Musk got it from one of his millions of LE EPIC BACON SCIENCE reply guys and passed it to Jared Kushner.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 02:00 |
|
evilmiera posted:Also, and I only just found this out after reading about a spat between Navarro (one of many idiots in the administration) and Fauci, which pointed out the studies on the drug's effect on Corona patients didn't have control groups. My understanding is the French study did have a control group... but one of the two hospitals in the test decided they weren't willing to dose their patients with unproven medicine, so they used that hospital's patients as a control group, all of which had only recently been diagnosed. So the control group showed only 10% recovered after a week - which obviously can't be right, or the virus would average out to lasting ten weeks. There was a Chinese study of Hydroxychloroquine that did have a control group... who did better than the group given hydroxychloroquine (though both groups had >80% recovery rates). Bremen fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 6, 2020 |
# ? Apr 6, 2020 03:03 |
|
Bremen posted:My understanding is the French study did have a control group... but one of the two hospitals in the test decided they weren't willing to dose their patients with unproven medicine, so they used that hospital's patients as a control group, all of which had only recently been diagnosed. So the control group showed only 10% recovered after a week - which obviously can't be right, or the virus would average out to lasting ten weeks. There was also some shady poo poo where they took some patients who were dying or doing badly out of the treatment group which, uh, is not kosher and skews the data towards "success" obviously.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 03:08 |
|
Talk to your doctor about fish tank cleaner
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 04:56 |
|
Mercury_Storm posted:Talk to your doctor about fish tank cleaner Ask your doctor whether chloroquine phosphate is right for you, then ignore the answer when you don't like it! It's the American way. (Though the real American way would be not asking at all.)
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 05:03 |
|
"Hey doc, should I take fish tank cleaner?" Doc: "Why yes, let me just write you a script for the local aq--- wait what the gently caress? Who told you about this?" "The orange man on TV" Doc: (continues writing script) Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Apr 6, 2020 |
# ? Apr 6, 2020 06:16 |
|
Have some lithium while you're at it.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 06:28 |
|
I mean... it is a medicine with some known antiviral properties. It's not impossible that Hydroxychloroquine could help with Covid-19. But there's a reason all the medical authorities are going "this needs to be tested, don't just tell everyone to take it based on early and flawed testing results".
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 07:24 |
|
It's the complete failure to realise the implications of their own figures that annoys me. These freepers saying it's only 2% mortality. Well let's multiply 2% x 360million x50% infection rate = About 3.6 million dead. Plus X but hundreds of thousands and possibly millions with permanent lung damage or other unpleasantness. Oh and your health system collapsed and your economy completely collapsed because everyones too scared to leave the house. Well nothing to worry about there.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 12:43 |
|
Bremen posted:I mean... it is a medicine with some known antiviral properties. It's not impossible that Hydroxychloroquine could help with Covid-19. But there's a reason all the medical authorities are going "this needs to be tested, don't just tell everyone to take it based on early and flawed testing results". Also as mentioned, there's side-effects, one of which is possible cardio-vascular issues, like irregular heartbeats. Which is kind of a bad combo with a disease that makes it harder to oxygenate. Now sure, if you're already taking it and it works when you get the disease, you probably won't run into any issues (except of course for the possible side-effects being lethal if you're unlucky, and the fact you shouldn't be taking anti-virals unless you know you're at risk). But the proposed treatment, as touted by Trump, also includes azithromycin, which, well, increases the chance of among other things, irregular heartbeats. So the combo MIGHT work (we're not sure yet), but it might also just get you cardiac arrest as a side-effect. Of course, we don't know the actual risk involved here yet (because, again, it hasn't been tested properly) and we don't have the percentage chances you might run into issues with the combo treatment. https://theintercept.com/2020/04/06/drug-treatment-trump-talks-covid-can-fatal-side-effect-cardiologists-warn/ Clinical trials are underway though, and with a lot of patients already on death's door, there's not as much perceived risk. So, the correct answer is unfortunately: Wait and see. Not the Trump and Freeper answer of: "Take it if you feel like it, what's the harm?"
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 14:59 |
|
I would blow Dane Cook posted:The French chloroquine doctor: If your doctor looks like either of these dudes, run away and fast.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 15:37 |
|
Trump really has a type, doesn't he.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 15:48 |
|
evilmiera posted:Also as mentioned, there's side-effects, one of which is possible cardio-vascular issues, like irregular heartbeats. Which is kind of a bad combo with a disease that makes it harder to oxygenate. Now sure, if you're already taking it and it works when you get the disease, you probably won't run into any issues (except of course for the possible side-effects being lethal if you're unlucky, and the fact you shouldn't be taking anti-virals unless you know you're at risk). Why is an antibiotic, which is used to fight bacteria, considered a treatment for a virus? Wtf? Antibiotics cannot fight viruses whatsoever because of their mechanism of action is to disrupt the cell wall of bacteria, something a virus doesn't have. Basically, there is no "target" for the antibiotic to work. Am I totally missing something here?
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:12 |
|
I had the same question, and the answer I got was that azithromycin also has some respiratory effects beyond the antibiotic effects. Something about reducing inflammation in the trachea, if I remember right. I’ll see if I can find it. e: here’s one where it had that effect for asthmatics. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=azithromycin+inflammation+reduction&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DW_FvVfw5CBkJ And another for cystic fibrosis: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=azithromycin+inflammation+reduction&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DD6GdM7ZFSRgJ So it seems like a well-educated guess, at second glance. Icon Of Sin fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Apr 6, 2020 |
# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:19 |
|
Yeah, any theoretical effect for hydroxychloroquine is also secondary to its usual mode of action - it supposedly lowers lysosomal pH which inhibits viral release. Both it and azithromycin are biologically plausible as effective against a viral illness... barely. I'd need a lot more evidence on either before saying it's effective at all, and in terms of where research for treatment should be directed you'd probably get a lot more mileage out of traditional antivirals.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:29 |
|
Because I wanted a more direct answer, I texted a few docs I know and they all said almost the exact same thing: "it's bullshit that has no basis in reality" I trust these docs more than I trust anything Turnip or any of his lackeys spew, fwiw.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:35 |
|
Zipperelli. posted:Because I wanted a more direct answer, I texted a few docs I know and they all said almost the exact same thing: "it's bullshit that has no basis in reality" Yeah. It's in use in quite a few cases on "compassionate use" basis and from what I'm hearing from doctors it may be of some help in some early cases but in most it doesn't do much and certainly nothing remotely resembling "miracle cure that will end C19", we would already know if it were that.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:01 |
|
Zwabu posted:certainly nothing remotely resembling "miracle cure that will end C19", we would already know if it were that.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:03 |
|
The *only* thing I can conceive of is prophylactic treatment against the pneumonia that develops secondary to Covid, but even that is a flimsy rear end excuse because Levofloxacin and doxycycline are generally agreed to be first-line antibiotics for pneumonia infections. Wow, these people are either functionally ret*rded or...... nope, nevermind, there is no other. They're just idiots. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:07 |
|
Please use 'functionally Rep*blican' from now on. Thank you.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 04:47 |
|
I went to see what freep thought of the Acting Secretary of the Navy acting like a dipshit and found instead that every third thread is about the unproven drugs Trump is pushing. Anyway, here's Coronavirus: Prime Minister Boris Johnson moved to intensive care after condition worsens posted by freeper rdl6989quote:To: rdl6989 About one out of every five posts is about the drugs. quote:To: Secret Agent Man BUT HER EMAILS GUYS quote:To: StAnDeliver Look at this fuckin poo poo quote:To: Robert DeLong quote:To: for-q-clinton quote:To: rdl6989
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:12 |
|
For clarity he's being treated by the NHS because private healthcare doesn't do real medicine, because they don't make money off it, they do low effort procedures and quackery and have no life saving capacity whatosever.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:32 |
|
Freep really, really hates Doctor Fauci. Coronavirus fight: White House health advisor Fauci says we may never get back to ‘normal’ posted by freeper MinorityRepublican quote:To: MinorityRepublican wat quote:To: an amused spectator quote:To: MinorityRepublican look at this loving poo poo. just look at it. quote:To: moviefan8 Haven't heard "PIAPS" in a while. quote:To: moviefan8 wew quote:To: MinorityRepublican quote:To: MinorityRepublican fuckin what? quote:To: All Here's BIG LEAGUE WELLNESSDr. Anthony Fauci Plotted ‘Global Vaccine Action Plan’ with Bill Gates Before Pushing COVID Panic and Doubts About Hydroxychloroquine Treatments posted by freeper CheshireTheCat quote:To: CheshireTheCat quote:To: CheshireTheCat quote:To: CheshireTheCat back to back, quote:To: vigilante2 quote:To: SecondAmendment quote:To: CheshireTheCat The head of the St Louis Federal Reserve said we should be doing the testing/tracing thing. He's right. quote:To: CheshireTheCat Here's Great News: Peter Navarro is Growing Weary of Dr. Fauci’s Nonsense posted by freeper EyesOfTX Ah, today's token sane freeper! quote:To: EyesOfTX quote:To: Ann Archy quote:To: Paladin2 quote:To: EyesOfTX quote:To: EyesOfTX It goes on and on and on, so I'll end it on this. quote:To: crz
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:38 |
|
You know, I was worried for a while back there that Freep had become stale and boring, but boy did that change! Thanks Covid-19!
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:43 |
|
On one hand at least the hucksters pushing that snake oil concoction seem to have looked up the tox information on the components, but I'd be really worried about that specific combo having some spooky interactions since both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin can gently caress with your heart in very similar ways. And I'd still love to hear the justification for how either stop covid-19 from going all 'protein printers go brrrr' and then you drown in your own fluids.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:56 |
|
Glad we defeated windows OS.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 06:56 |
|
OKay, here's the Navy poo poo. CW near the bottom for homophobic slurs. Let's start with the actual real big question: quote:To: Enlightened1 And then, in the very next loving post, quote:To: Enlightened1 It shouldn't come as a shock to most of you, but a lot of the posts in the thread are from people that didn't read the article. This is not one of them. quote:To: Enlightened1 Again, like, nobody at all is really addressing the insane bullshit that the loving Secretary of the Navy spouted. It's just this. quote:To: Enlightened1 quote:To: damper99 So, let's try again. Here's Navy Secretary Upbraids Aircraft Carrier’s Captain Over Intercom posted by freeper billorites quote:To: billorites So keep in mind that the audio was accidentally broadcast to the crew, and in the recording we have of it, the crew is reacting ... poorly. quote:To: billorites quote:To: billorites lol there's audio quote:To: billorites Very, very, very few freepers agree with this guy. quote:To: billorites For example, quote:To: taxcontrol You mean, a good guy trying to do the right thing that gets crushed by corruption from above? quote:To: A_perfect_lady Hi Kit Cat! quote:To: Sans-Culotte Here's Sailors slam Navy for virus response on ships, Naval Base San Diego posted by freeper Mariner quote:Lot's of pussies moaning in this article. quote:To: Mariner quote:To: Mariner quote:To: Mariner CW: spoiler'd slur quote:To: Mariner quote:To: Greenpees Nobody, not a single comment, noted what the sailors were complaining about. Let's close with Acting Navy secretary walks back his calling fired carrier captain ‘naive, stupid’ posted by freeper Kalija quote:“I apologize for any confusion this choice of words may have caused,” Modly wrote late Monday evening, referring to his speech aboard the Roosevelt on Sunday. “I also want to apologize directly to Captain Crozier, his family, and the entire crew of the Theodore Roosevelt for any pain my remarks may have caused.” quote:To: Kalija quote:To: lee martell quote:To: dfwgator Yes, ladies and gents, please remember that freep thinks he's gone not because he did a stupid thing, but because he apologized. quote:To: lepton
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 07:10 |
|
Biggest gripe is "they need to be talked to like this" I've had loving bosses say this horse poo poo like oh you were military? That means I can treat you like poo poo!
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 07:12 |
|
It's loving hilarious that dipshit decided to go on the intercom to the whole ship to try and convince them their affection for the former captain of said ship was fake news from a biased media.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 07:22 |
|
Finally from me tonight, Vanity: Once the All Clear is Given, How can Trump counter Governors Keeping their States Closed posted by freeper usafa92quote:To: usafa92 yeah okay sure quote:To: usafa92 uhhuh if you say so quote:To: usafa92 MURICA quote:To: usafa92 quote:To: usafa92 quote:To: usafa92 gently caress you. quote:To: fhayek quote:To: usafa92 quote:To: usafa92 lol socialist Inslee quote:To: usafa92 quote:To: usafa92 Look at the brains on this guy. quote:To: usafa92 quote:To: right way right quote:To: usafa92
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 07:34 |
|
|
# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:14 |
|
Feinne posted:It's loving hilarious that dipshit decided to go on the intercom to the whole ship to try and convince them their affection for the former captain of said ship was fake news from a biased media. Yes the non rates are gonna listen to politicians moreso than a captain
|
# ? Apr 7, 2020 08:18 |