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Cup Runneth Over posted:Wow, congrats! I'm also LGBT folks you know. I am currently gay married! Don't pretend I don't have a stake in the discussion. While the ultimate result of Hollingsworth v.Perry was that SSM was legalized in California by way of Prop 8 being thrown out, the actual SCOTUS decision wasn't on the issue of SSM, but rather standing. Kennedy's dissent was about the precedent that if the State government didn't like a Proposition that got passed, they could just refuse to defend it if it gets sued which would functionally make the whole point of the Proposition system - that is bypassing the state legislature - irrelevant. Sotomayor has generally been a very good justice across the board and Kennedy was pretty good on LGBT issues even if he was otherwise hugely poo poo, so my guess was they wanted a long game where they granted standing but then ruled Prop 8 unconstitutional anyway, which would have in their eyes preserved a key defense of the proposition system while still ultimately resulting in legalized SSM. Of course that still doesn't excuse the optics of a supposed left leaning justice throwing LGBT folks under the bus to preserve the supposed integrity of our godawful, no good, piece of loving poo poo proposition system, but hey.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:56
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"We" aren't doing that and if your anger at somebody advocating for that is causing you to veer toward suggesting that the gays sold out the poor for marriage you're getting too heated about it.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:00
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krysmopompas posted:Direct action is the only way we’re going to see meaningful change, and complacent electoralism is the biggest hurdle we have to overcome to get there. Having to vote for monsters just so you maybe, just maybe, get one good thing is not the only option. Direct action such as what?
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Apr 11, 2020 01:16
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strikes are the biggest one. peacefully dismantling a representative's home is another i'd like to see but nobody thinks it's a good idea.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Direct action such as what? 
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Apr 11, 2020 01:21
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I agree that organization and direct action are the best way to get change at the local level and eventually the state and federal. We all ought to be participating. However, ignoring electoralism entirely seems to me a bad strategy. We only need to look at the situation with the virus right now to understand that our governors, reps, and senators do matter. I can only imagine what hell we would be in right now with Cox.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:26
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But if you're already doing direct action and getting poo poo done, fine I could care less if you vote. You're moving the needle more than people who just vote.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:29
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:However, ignoring electoralism entirely seems to me a bad strategy. We only need to look at the situation with the virus right now to understand that our governors, reps, and senators do matter. I can only imagine what hell we would be in right now with Cox. I’m not for ignoring electoralism, more for using it as a weapon. He should not be able to cruise through his next election in any way without making massive concessions, even if it means risking a slightly worse option winning. Newsom still hosed medical workers and let hospital admins off the hook by dropping ppe regulations. The only thing he really did right was call for a weak lockdown long after various cities took the lead, so the circumstances were dictating his actions more than any personal quality. Just like any republican would have, he didn’t lift a finger before to ensure we had the medical capacity to deal with a pandemic.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:48
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Wow, congrats! I'm also LGBT folks you know. I am currently gay married! Don't pretend I don't have a stake in the discussion. The fact that you don't care doesn't negate the huge impact it had on others. Cup Runneth Over posted:Wasn't Sotomayor an Obama justice? Yeah. The court dismissed it on standing, and the dissent argued that the supreme court shouldn't limit the defense of initiatives in federal court to state officials or state agents. Edit for less snark.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:14
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Apr 11, 2020 03:12
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ntan1 posted:Newsom is surprisingly competent. Gavbot is currently programmed to run for President in 2024 or 2028 and dead white constituents are not conducive to this. That's basically all it is. At this point I'll take it because Gavbot is currently working in our favor. When this crisis is over we will go back to screaming at him about all our other grievances. But for now, I trust Gavbot's current subroutine. Also, can we please stop arguing about the federal democratic primary in the Calpol thread?
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Apr 11, 2020 04:48
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Apr 11, 2020 07:20
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quote:In January, 1969, The first Panther's Free Breakfast for School Children Program is initiated at St. Augustin,e's Church in Oakland. By the end of the year, the Panthers set up kitchens in cities across the nation, feeding over 10,000 children every day before they went to school.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:01
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 Gavin Newsom Declares California a Nation State - A hard declaration of autonomy with regards to Covid, and plans to export supplies to other states
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Apr 11, 2020 16:37
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A: I don't wanna give Bloomberg clicks B: stop it with the sensationalized B.S. Yes, it's eyebrow-raising, but we're not loving secceeding from the union (even with regards to viral outbreak stuff)
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Apr 11, 2020 17:03
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Kenning posted:Chavez's reliance on direct wealth transfer through oil revenues funded by the Chinese commodity boom was a long-term strategic error, and should be understood in that context. On the other hand, he owned like hell. The duality of man~~~ "You were doing well, until everyone died."
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Apr 11, 2020 17:45
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Ambitious politicians doing their job well so that they can advance their career goals is literally the entire idea behind this whole democracy thing, there's not really anything sinister about it.
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Apr 12, 2020 08:11
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Still Dismal posted:Ambitious politicians doing their job well so that they can advance their career goals is literally the entire idea behind this whole democracy thing, there's not really anything sinister about it. I’m not sure self-serving career advancement of the ruling class is the ultimate expression of a healthy democracy.
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Apr 12, 2020 09:16
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Still Dismal posted:Ambitious politicians doing their job well so that they can advance their career goals is literally the entire idea behind this whole democracy thing, there's not really anything sinister about it. There are alternative models of democracy that do not produce or require career politicians. For example, some past democracies have used sortition, or random selection of citizens, to appoint people to office. People appointed were not allowed to be appointed ever again once their term was over. We already do sortition with some public duties like jury duty. I think it's important to make a distinction between the republican form of democracy we have in the US vs direct democracy.
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Apr 12, 2020 20:43
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Californians saying federal elections don't matter and supreme court doesn't either when gay marriage was only made legal by the (US) supreme court is hilarious.
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Apr 13, 2020 05:31
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Celexi posted:Californians saying federal elections don't matter and supreme court doesn't either when gay marriage was only made legal by the (US) supreme court is hilarious. Californians would like to forget that they voted NO on prop 8.
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Apr 13, 2020 05:43
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Californians would like to forget that they voted NO on prop 8. Wasn't it a YES vote? Yes banned gay marriage, No did not? Or do I have that backward? (Whichever way it goes, Californians want everyone else to forget that they voted to ban gay marriage. Heaven forbid something besmirch their faux left-wing appearance and reveal that a large percentage are Reaganite assholes. There's no remorse from the ban voters.)
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Apr 13, 2020 06:06
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Sundae posted:Wasn't it a YES vote? Yes banned gay marriage, No did not? Or do I have that backward? No you're right yes was bad no was good. It was a law to eliminate gay marriage rights. Passing by 500,000 votes.
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Apr 13, 2020 07:10
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:No you're right yes was bad no was good. It was a law to eliminate gay marriage rights. Passing by 500,000 votes. But I thought gay marriage rights only existed because of the US Supreme Court? And they certainly couldn't have been impeded on the federal level by a law signed by a Democrat? Seems you're the one who forgot about Prop 8, anyway.
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Apr 13, 2020 07:21
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Cup Runneth Over posted:But I thought gay marriage rights only existed because of the US Supreme Court? I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at here. I just remember 2008 being a vote to repeal on the 2004 gay marriage legalization
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Apr 13, 2020 07:51
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at here. I just remember 2008 being a vote to repeal on the 2004 gay marriage legalization Same-sex marriage in California wasn't legal in 2004, that was just the year when then-Mayor Newsom illegally issued some marriage licenses that got voided. This did result in a court case in 2004 which eventually led to legalization in May 2008, but that prompted Prop 8 which passed in November 2008. So same-sex marriage was legal in California for about six months or so. And it wasn't a repeal because the cowards in the state legislature never passed a pro-gay marriage law. Prop 8 just added new language to the state constitution instituting a ban, which tied the hands of the State Supreme Court.
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Apr 13, 2020 08:44
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Oregon, Washington, California agree to a "Western States Pact" on coordinating COVID response and eventual economic re-opening, independent of Federal guidance. For all intents and purposes the entire West Coast just told the Federal Government to pound sand. You love to see it.
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Apr 13, 2020 21:53
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Gav-Bot... good?
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Apr 13, 2020 22:09
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Remember when I said during Hypothetical Succession Chat that it wouldn't be California alone? I said it would be in blocs and we'd invite Oregon and Washington to go with us.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:14
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So how are people doing here? Still employed? Got sick? Got their landlords to suspend rent?
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Apr 13, 2020 22:17
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Chomp8645 posted:Remember when I said during Hypothetical Succession Chat that it wouldn't be California alone? I said it would be in blocs and we'd invite Oregon and Washington to go with us. We'll look back on this as the beginning of the Western United States of America. The Stamp Act Congress of the WUSA... 
America Inc. fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 22:19
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:So how are people doing here? Still employed? Got sick? Got their landlords to suspend rent? I'm able to work from home. Interestingly, I just had a long discussion with my manager in January about how the nature of my position precludes working from home, so them ordering me to stay out of the office for several weeks has been pretty lol.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:23
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:We'll look back on this as the beginning of the Western United States of America. The Stamp Act Congress of the WUSA... Personally I think we ought to rebrand. Who wants to be know as the "Western United States"? That poo poo sucks. Like West Virginia. California, Oregon Washington..... COW
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Apr 13, 2020 22:25
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Pacific Corridor Union has a nice dystopian ring to it
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Apr 13, 2020 22:30
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Also, ol' Amerigo Vespucci doesn't deserve so much credit. Let's take the opportunity to stop honoring him with "america" and go with something that honors the original inhabitants or at least someone famous for something actually good.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:30
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I-5 alliance
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Apr 13, 2020 22:31
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just make a single giant rear end country with canada, washington, oregon, california and mexico like a giant fuckin pacman bout to eat the rest of the US alaska could be the bow if we want to use ms pacman instead
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Apr 13, 2020 22:37
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Chomp8645 posted:Remember when I said during Hypothetical Succession Chat that it wouldn't be California alone? I said it would be in blocs and we'd invite Oregon and Washington to go with us. Nevada and Hawaii can come too  and alaska. we can send antifa supercommandos to pacify the chud zones and dismantle the pipelines the Maricopa County Thunderdome, the Mormon Kingdom, and the Aryan Milk Protectorate of the Dakotas/Idaho/Montana could be trouble in the future though. Maybe the Weed Republic of Colorado/New Mexico can help us take them in a pincer move. After all of that we'll have most of Cuckmerica's nukes, and the alien alloys as well antifa super posadism, hopefully without the nuclear war 
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Apr 13, 2020 22:41
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Coalition of Unified Maritime Land CUM Land
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Apr 13, 2020 22:41
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Leperflesh posted:Also, ol' Amerigo Vespucci doesn't deserve so much credit. Let's take the opportunity to stop honoring him with "america" and go with something that honors the original inhabitants or at least someone famous for something actually good. All hail Vespucciland! Paolo Bacigalupi did a pretty good prediction of what the water rights for the western states would look like with a complete lack of federal guidance: California will take command of the Colorado river by force and gently caress Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, or anyone else who wants dat precious agua. Any sort of "California seceeds!" fantasy has to think about water rights cuz Socal trying to go it alone is laff. jeeves fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 22:43
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