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Completely out of material things to offer (not that they had any to being with, thanks Biden campaign!), the Biden defenders have leapt to "electing Biden will make the neo nazis sad" as the only justification to voting for a rapist. Handily, the sadness levels of neo nazis is an impossible to quantify thing, as opposed to something material like healthcare, so the truth of the situation can live entirely in the poster's mind. Biden will absolutely make every neo nazi give up just by being elected! They should make the campaign slogan Biden 2020: No More Nazis
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May 2, 2020 05:22
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And if it's legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that down. https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1256434786220085261
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May 2, 2020 05:24
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I love seeing just how many Democrats are falling over themselves trying to excuse and normalize rape, and to badger survivors like myself into voting for one rapist over another. The party of #MeToo really doesn't give a flying gently caress about rape or sexual abuse in the end. It's also gratifying to see Democrats whinge about the very neo-Nazis that were bred by the constant failures of the very neoliberal system that the Democratic Party has repeatedly failed to address or rectify in anything more than the most ineffectual and aesthetic ways, and their only proposal for fighting these neo-Nazis is apparently putting a racist segregationist in charge who has sworn up and down that "nothing will fundamentally change."
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May 2, 2020 05:27
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The libs voted for Biden because they desperately wanted a return to normalcy and he's already plunging us deeper into chaos. You gotta laugh.
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May 2, 2020 05:28
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Office Pig posted:And if it's legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that down. Christ.
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May 2, 2020 05:30
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RBA Starblade posted:Of course it's not predetermined, but I see no outcome in which a rapist does not take change of America as of now. Do you? Please, tell me how, then. Joe Biden polls below 30%, the DNC realizes that actually nominating him would be the end of the party, they convince him to drop out and nominate a relatively bland governor who didn't endorse Biden, the bland governor wins by like 30 EVs. If you think it's impossible the DNC pulls a nominee for polling sub 30%, how do you feel about 20%? Or 10%? If you think that scenario's plausible at any polling %, then it seems like the best way to avoid having a rapist as president (again) is to openly proclaim that you will vote for any Democrat in November that isn't a rapist.
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May 2, 2020 05:31
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With Joe Biden it’s always rape this, ogling a child’s breasts that. No one wants to talk about the war crimes, anymore! Or about the advanced dementia! Or even the racism! There’s tons of reasons to never ever vote for Joe Biden for US president! Live a little!
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May 2, 2020 05:33
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WampaLord posted:Completely out of material things to offer (not that they had any to being with, thanks Biden campaign!), the Biden defenders have leapt to "electing Biden will make the neo nazis sad" as the only justification to voting for a rapist. Trump is not merely "making neo-nazis happy," he is actively enfranchising them. And I'm not arguing that Biden will somehow defeat all the nazis. My argument is that willingly allowing neo-nazis to hold power is morally indefensible on its face.
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May 2, 2020 05:33
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Office Pig posted:And if it's legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that down. The vagina is inconvenient to access and you can't touch it without consent thought no woman ever.
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May 2, 2020 05:36
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relax-o-vision posted:Trump is not merely "making neo-nazis happy," he is actively enfranchising them. And I'm not arguing that Biden will somehow defeat all the nazis. My argument is that willingly allowing neo-nazis to hold power is morally indefensible on its face. Biden isn't going to destroy the neo-Nazis you keep bringing up. The most he's going to do is piss them off a little and kick the can down the road while prolonging the very material and social circumstances that led to a rise in fascism across the west in recent years. Until and unless someone addresses those causes, there will be more fascists to come, and better organized ones at that. Mr. "Nothing Will Fundamentally Change" is not going to a drat thing to address those causes, no more than Obama did.
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May 2, 2020 05:37
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Pussy Cartel posted:...while prolonging the very material and social circumstances that led to a rise in fascism across the west in recent years. Until and unless someone addresses those causes, there will be more fascists to come, and better organized ones at that. No, see, material causes are class reductionism: in reality, if red team wins nazis are happy and multiply. If blue team wins nazis are sad and diminish. Also yes before you ask I was hit on the head by a grand piano and can’t remember 2008-2016.
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May 2, 2020 05:41
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I am genuinely curious as to how liberals explain the victory of Donald Trump. Not just in the GE, but in the Republican Primary as well. Like, a lot of them point to Russia, or Comey, or the general unpopularity of Hillary Clinton. But none of them really address how he won the primary in such a landslide. Do they just point to racism? Is identity politics the only narrative they have left?
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May 2, 2020 05:41
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I am genuinely curious as to how liberals explain the victory of Donald Trump. Not just in the GE, but in the Republican Primary as well. You're funny in that you think that liberals have explanations. Their primary way of dealing with things they don't like is not to think about them or more recently, spooky Russian conspiracy.
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May 2, 2020 05:43
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I am genuinely curious as to how liberals explain the victory of Donald Trump. Not just in the GE, but in the Republican Primary as well.
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May 2, 2020 05:43
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Weird how all these Nazis started showing up after Biden helped the financial sector loot the economy until they broke it and then he left the working class to rot. Kinda like how the Nazis started showing up in Germany when their economy was ruined. Oh wait, there I go doing materialism again. Let me give this another shot through the liberal approved lens. Weird how all these Nazis started showing up when the bad man came along and cast a spell over half the population. This is exactly like that time in Germany when that other bad man showed up and gave speeches so compelling that they murdered millions of people.
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May 2, 2020 05:46
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Surely in Biden's almost 50 years of holding office he'll have something related to fighting the rise of white supremacy rather than aiding it. I'm sure he didn't eulogize Strom Thurmond or author a crime bill that lead to mass incarnation of It isn't like he was part of the administration that immediately preceded and lead to Trump's election or anything like that.
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May 2, 2020 05:49
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I'm sure Biden didn't give massive handouts to the banking and credit industries, and didn't do anything to make student loan debt impossible to discharge through bankruptcy and thus further immiserating swathes of the American population. I'm sure Biden didn't preside over the construction of camps for refugees and migrants, many of them children. I'm sure he didn't preside over a major ramping up of deportations of people of colour, or the practical induction of America's police forces into ICE. I'm also sure that Biden hasn't now started stoking xenophobia and racism as part of his election campaign, either.
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May 2, 2020 05:53
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Ice Phisherman posted:You're funny in that you think that liberals have explanations. Their primary way of dealing with things they don't like is not to think about them or more recently, spooky Russian conspiracy. The key tenet of neoliberalism is that problems do not exist.
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May 2, 2020 06:00
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is pepsi ok posted:Weird how all these Nazis started showing up after Biden helped the financial sector loot the economy until they broke it and then he left the working class to rot. Kinda like how the Nazis started showing up in Germany when their economy was ruined. You guys are really starting to worry me. You're implying here that nazis are motivated by legitimate economic grievances. You're tiptoeing down the path towards saying they are "very good people." Like, you're aware that Trump voters in 2016 skewed wealthier than Clinton voters? People did not become neo-nazis because they couldn't pay their student loans. It has never been about economic anxiety. It was always, always racism. Please take a hard look at what you're implying when you humanize nazis like this. I will never willingly allow nazis to hold power in my country. I understand that you are all taking a moral stand; please understand that I am also taking a moral stand. Good night.
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May 2, 2020 06:12
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relax-o-vision posted:I will never willingly allow nazis to hold power in my country. Probably best to steer away from that kind of conversation considering who the current president is.
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May 2, 2020 06:13
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relax-o-vision posted:I will never willingly allow nazis to hold power in my country. What are you going to do about it besides cast a meaningless vote for Joe Biden? Your great moral stand is that you're gonna take a once-per-four-years break from doing nothing to vote for a rapist. We differ on the definition of "moral stand" but you do you. I'd advise you to stop trying to scold other goons into voting for Biden and pick up the phone and phone bank to conservatives. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 06:14
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WampaLord posted:What are you going to do about it besides cast a meaningless vote for Joe Biden? I'm going to cast a meaningful vote for Joe Biden. I'm in a swing state! Go team!
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May 2, 2020 06:16
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Nazis already hold power in america. Disarm Cops.
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May 2, 2020 06:18
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relax-o-vision posted:You guys are really starting to worry me. You're implying here that nazis are motivated by legitimate economic grievances. You're tiptoeing down the path towards saying they are "very good people." Like, you're aware that Trump voters in 2016 skewed wealthier than Clinton voters? People did not become neo-nazis because they couldn't pay their student loans. It has never been about economic anxiety. It was always, always racism. Please take a hard look at what you're implying when you humanize nazis like this. Shut the gently caress up moron, don't you ever imply that I would describe Nazis as good people. Look, I get that liberals refuse to have a material understanding of history. Like your response to my post is literally what I was mocking.
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May 2, 2020 06:19
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relax-o-vision posted:You guys are really starting to worry me. You're implying here that nazis are motivated by legitimate economic grievances. You're tiptoeing down the path towards saying they are "very good people." Like, you're aware that Trump voters in 2016 skewed wealthier than Clinton voters? People did not become neo-nazis because they couldn't pay their student loans. It has never been about economic anxiety. It was always, always racism. Please take a hard look at what you're implying when you humanize nazis like this. Until you address the root causes of fascism (capitalism in decay), you will never eliminate it. It will always come back, no matter how much you try to moralize about people to your left "humanizing" them. And appeals to Trump's GOP being a bunch of neo-Nazis carefully sidesteps the fact that the punitively racist and xenophobic police and immigration apparatus that's been set up and reinforced by Democrats and Republicans both is the single biggest risk faced on a daily basis by brown immigrants like myself, not some podunk weirdos marching on a state capitol. It doesn't matter a drat to people like me if the openly performative neo-Nazis are kept away from power as long as the practical, effective enablers of fascism are able to freely crack down on (in)convenient minorities.
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May 2, 2020 06:26
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Trump wins over the Blue rust belt in 2016 on the back of pretending he'll revive manufacturing jobs and raise them back out of poverty. Economics has nothing to do with anything, though.
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May 2, 2020 06:27
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relax-o-vision posted:You guys are really starting to worry me. You're implying here that nazis are motivated by legitimate economic grievances. You're tiptoeing down the path towards saying they are "very good people." Like, you're aware that Trump voters in 2016 skewed wealthier than Clinton voters? People did not become neo-nazis because they couldn't pay their student loans. It has never been about economic anxiety. It was always, always racism. Please take a hard look at what you're implying when you humanize nazis like this. Do you... do you not know anything about Germany post-World War I?
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May 2, 2020 06:28
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actually racism is caused by the inherent cruelty of the white germ, as devised by the evil scientist Yakub, OP
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May 2, 2020 06:30
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FallenGod posted:Trump wins over the Blue rust belt in 2016 on the back of pretending he'll revive manufacturing jobs and raise them back out of poverty. I'd say he won because he wasn't Hillary. If Sanders were the nominee the Midwest would have gone to him. Trump's promise of a return to greatness was an easy sell when Clinton's legacy was that of NAFTA, and NAFTA to a rust belt construction worker means "that's why the mills shut down". I say this as a rust belt construction worker. I also say this as someone who doesn't want Sanders to win another office for the remainder of his life.
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May 2, 2020 06:31
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I do think Clinton underestimated how bad NAFTA was taken in the Rust Belt and didn't campaign there like she should have. Trump had an advantage there that I don't think he has now, just because the jobs didn't come back and the unemployment rate is going up due to Covid-19.
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May 2, 2020 06:32
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bobjr posted:I do think Clinton underestimated how bad NAFTA was taken in the Rust Belt and didn't campaign there like she should have. Agreed. Let's hope it's enough of a swing to make the difference.
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May 2, 2020 06:33
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Post WW1 Germany had the same problem that post Civil War Southern states had. Terms of surrender so mild that it left people wondering if they were really beaten at all. And if maybe given a second chance they could win.
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May 2, 2020 06:35
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They're right that economic anxiety is a bullshit motivator when it comes to nazis though. All the polling I've seen has born this out, at least as far as 2016 is concerned. Nazis gonna nazi for racism whether they are poor or well off. Where they're wrong is that thinking that Joe Biden isn't also a nazi. Joe Biden is a nazi who still wears the decorum mask. He's not going to do anything about ICE or children in cages. He's not going to do anything about cops wantonly murdering minorities. He isn't going to do anything about right wing terror groups and he's definitely not going to appoint anyone, anywhere, that might do anything about these things because he has never once pushed against any of it in his life. And has in fact acted to aid and abet them in some cases.
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May 2, 2020 06:35
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relax-o-vision posted:You guys are really starting to worry me. You're implying here that nazis are motivated by legitimate economic grievances. You're tiptoeing down the path towards saying they are "very good people." Like, you're aware that Trump voters in 2016 skewed wealthier than Clinton voters? People did not become neo-nazis because they couldn't pay their student loans. It has never been about economic anxiety. It was always, always racism. Please take a hard look at what you're implying when you humanize nazis like this. It is both to embrace racist policies (94 crime bill) AND gently caress the poor (NAFTA). Bill Clinton was a rockstar at this. sidenote: do you make posts that dont end with "and that's why I take a moral stance against nazis" or is that your gimmick?
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May 2, 2020 06:39
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bobjr posted:I do think Clinton underestimated how bad NAFTA was taken in the Rust Belt and didn't campaign there like she should have. On the other hand, Biden and the Dems in Congress seem determined to signal to economically depressed areas that they will get NO help through this crisis whatsoever. I do think at this point Trump losing is (marginally) more likely than not, but dear God, the Dems are doing everything possible they can to lose.
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May 2, 2020 06:39
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Failboattootoot posted:They're right that economic anxiety is a bullshit motivator when it comes to nazis though. All the polling I've seen has born this out, at least as far as 2016 is concerned. Nazis gonna nazi for racism whether they are poor or well off. That's something that a lot of Democrats just aren't willing to face or own up to. They talk about all the poo poo the GOP shovels at minorities, refugees, migrants, or the like, but never acknowledge how very complicit the Democratic Party is in heaping misery and suffering on us, and how Biden won't address any of that at all. Biden just means another administration in which we suffer, and no one pays any attention because the oppression is being carried out with all the proper decorum.
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May 2, 2020 06:41
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Majorian posted:On the other hand, Biden and the Dems in Congress seem determined to signal to economically depressed areas that they will get NO help through this crisis whatsoever. I do think at this point Trump losing is (marginally) more likely than not, but dear God, the Dems are doing everything possible they can to lose. I agree with this, just because I think there isn't a good answer they can give to those communities without a serious change to the status quo, and Biden is a "return to normal" candidate. It's more that Clinton had so much negative build up that I don't see how she could overcome it. With Biden it's the opposite, where Trump has hosed up so much and with Covid-19 is draining support from those who would vote for him. Without that it's a lot harder to push "We need to get back to normal" when you have things Trump could push like a "good" economy, where the numbers might look good but the average person isn't doing good.
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May 2, 2020 06:45
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Failboattootoot posted:They're right that economic anxiety is a bullshit motivator when it comes to nazis though. All the polling I've seen has born this out, at least as far as 2016 is concerned. Nazis gonna nazi for racism whether they are poor or well off. The argument isn't that people become Nazis when they become poor. It's that capitalism has ruined this country and they aren't going to take the blame for it so they pin it on the people who can't defend themselves. This is always what it does.
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May 2, 2020 06:51
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relax-o-vision posted:OK, so you feel it is morally acceptable to allow neo-nazis to remain in power, got it. Thank you for your candor. Posting like this gives the game away, just so you know. Wilbur Swain posted:What a fascinating moral dilemma, to vote for the lesser of two rapists or not vote at all and abdicate all responsibility for the outcome. I wonder how long this debate will continue. Six months? Perhaps people could try to prevent it from being a match between two rapists in the first place instead of preemptively convincing themselves that it's okay to vote for a rapist and yelling at people who don't think the same. Anyone making "lesser evil" arguments at this point in time is effectively fighting in favor of this becoming an election between two rapists, which is a considerably greater evil than opposing that. relax-o-vision posted:Trump is not merely "making neo-nazis happy," he is actively enfranchising them. And I'm not arguing that Biden will somehow defeat all the nazis. My argument is that willingly allowing neo-nazis to hold power is morally indefensible on its face. What about other forms of white supremacist? If that's bad too, then your argument works against Biden, not for him. Is creating the kinds of conditions that make white supremacist recruiting and radicalization flourish, while also pushing a more decorous version of their agenda, bad as well? Biden's massively responsible for that too, and his presidency will almost certainly let him take it to new heights. Really, your line of argument here is just not a good one if you're trying to support Biden, because once you look at it at all beyond the surface level it becomes blatantly obvious that Biden is hugely bad on that front too, and it's more or less the same as, "Well Biden's less of a rapist so he's better than Trump, and thus not voting for him is tantamount to supporting rapists".
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May 2, 2020 06:57
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is pepsi ok posted:The argument isn't that people become Nazis when they become poor. It's that capitalism has ruined this country and they aren't going to take the blame for it so they pin it on the people who can't defend themselves. This is always what it does. Just about everyone under the age of 40 is suffering economic anxiety and yet that group does not go to bat for racists or nazis. People who do go to bat for nazis: old suburban assholes and retirees who huffed lead gas fumes and lived when segregation was still a thing. These people are also generally economically well to do or at least, stable.
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May 2, 2020 07:00
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