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How are u posted:I'm not trying to convince the Bernie or Bust crowd to vote D either. I'll continue to happily explain why voting (D) is the right thing to do in this election, but I certainly have no expectation that I'm going to convince a Something Awful Bernie or Buster over the internet to do the right thing. I'm glad you're fine with me not voting for a rapist. I didn't particularly care if you were okay with it. You do nothing but contort yourself in loops about "I didn't want Biden, but Trump bad" and "I hope Biden gets replaced, but not bad enough to actually call for him to be replaced or to acknowledge any of the bad things he's done as valid reasons for his disqualification". Posts about posters are banned but yet you exist only as an unprincipled cloud of liberal disappointment who posts only disingenuous generalizations about entire groups of posters and their concerns. How are u posted:I'm writing off (and just for this election, not like, forever) the Something Awful left that would rather see Trump elected than Joe Biden (if he ends up the candidate). Please don't put words in my mouth and make me out to be writing off such incredibly broad categories like "racial minorities" and "LGBTQ people". Unless you claim to speak for all racial minorities and LGBTQ people. I'm personally writing off (forever) the Democrats who would rather take up rape apologia than take up even a single standard they apply to their opponents. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 19:03
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How are u posted:I'm not trying to convince the Bernie or Bust crowd to vote D either. I'll continue to happily explain why voting (D) is the right thing to do in this election, but I certainly have no expectation that I'm going to convince a Something Awful Bernie or Buster over the internet to do the right thing. Where along the line in the past 40 years did "doing the right thing" (read:voting blue) get us healthcare, trans rights, felon enfranchisement, raised wages or a fair housing market not controlled by predators?
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May 5, 2020 19:03
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Xombie posted:"left libertarian" as a belief system is simply "there are problems in the world, let's do nothing about them". It is the very epitome of FYGM. Aren’t you explicitly voting based on which candidate will give you the best payout with no regard to how they handle the problems in the world? Seems a bit like you’re calling yourself an anarchist here.
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May 5, 2020 19:04
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Xombie posted:I never told them to vote for Biden. I'll continue to point this out, as it's a fact. I didn't say this, just that you are placing the blame of Trump's eventual re-election on them.
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May 5, 2020 19:04
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How are u posted:I'm writing off (and just for this election, not like, forever) the Something Awful left that would rather see Trump elected than Joe Biden (if he ends up the candidate). Please don't put words in my mouth and make me out to be writing off such incredibly broad categories like "racial minorities" and "LGBTQ people". Unless you claim to speak for all racial minorities and LGBTQ people. You (and a lot of other people besides, here on the forums and elsewhere) consistently write off anyone who refuses to fall in lockstep behind the Democratic candidate (which disproportionately tends to include minorities of all stripes) while writing off the stragglers as being non-existent at best or, worse yet, the "Something Awful left" or "Bernie or Busters." Our voices are consistently ignored except when it's convenient.
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May 5, 2020 19:04
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VitalSigns posted:so let me just make sure I understand you: you're saying that anyone voting for Howie Hawkins is fine as long as they hope Howie loses, but if they hope Howie wins then they are Trumpers somehow. This is some incredibly disingenuous posting. Unless something radically changes hoping for Biden to lose=hoping for Trump to win. If B<=>!A then !A=B, this is basic logic, and so is it's observance. Also Alex Jones is a sandy hook truther, Ventura platformed him, thus Ventura gave a platform to a sandy hook truther, none of this requires time travel. "He hadn't put those theories out yet" is a valid counter but it's not like his Sandy Hook stuff was out of character for Jones so I'm not sure why you think that's such an effective gotcha. If Biden had hosted a white supremacist on his personal radio show repeatedly for years and years who then also came out as a neo-nazi I don't think you'd be trying to split hairs about saying "Biden platformed a neo-nazi".
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May 5, 2020 19:05
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How are u posted:I'm writing off (and just for this election, not like, forever) the Something Awful left that would rather see Trump elected than Joe Biden (if he ends up the candidate). Please don't put words in my mouth and make me out to be writing off such incredibly broad categories like "racial minorities" and "LGBTQ people". Unless you claim to speak for all racial minorities and LGBTQ people. shut the gently caress up cis (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 5, 2020 19:05
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beating trump is the most important thing in the universe and we must pragmatically do anything to do so except move left, we can't do that for some reason
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May 5, 2020 19:05
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Trabisnikof posted:Aren’t you explicitly voting based on which candidate will give you the best payout with no regard to how they handle the problems in the world? Student loan forgiveness isn't a "payout", it's a thing that I require for my family to financially survive, long-term. It's a similar situation to much of my generation, and a big reason for the generational wealth gap.
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May 5, 2020 19:05
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COVID-19 posted:I didn't say this, just that you are placing the blame of Trump's eventual re-election on them. I'm also not doing that, because I don't think that Biden will lose, and if he does, it won't be because of Bernie voters not voting.
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May 5, 2020 19:06
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How are u posted:If he tries he will face incredible pushback from the people who helped get him elected, that I know. I'm confident we can win that fight and make sure that a bailout comes with conditions that set up the managed-decline of the industry. lol the earth is doomed E: which is to say that I truly believe that you sincerely think this could happen, and enough other people do too, that nothing any of us is arguing about will matter because in twenty years it will all we can do to figuratively and literally keep our heads above water. rko fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 19:06
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How are u posted:If he tries he will face incredible pushback from the people who helped get him elected, that I know. How are u posted:I'm confident we can win that fight How are u posted:and make sure that a bailout comes with conditions that set up the managed-decline of the industry.
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May 5, 2020 19:06
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How are u posted:If he tries he will face incredible pushback from the people who helped get him elected, that I know. I'm confident we can win that fight and make sure that a bailout comes with conditions that set up the managed-decline of the industry. How old were you when Obama and Biden were elected and started to help out the very same people they said they would oppose? You really think they aren't going to help out their constituents? Deepwater Horizon spill happened the first year of Obama's presidency and they went ahead and pumped oil like it was going out of style.
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May 5, 2020 19:06
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Xombie posted:Student loan forgiveness isn't a "payout", it's a thing that I require for my family to financially survive, long-term. As it turns out, "healthcare, trans rights, felon enfranchisement, raised wages [and] a fair housing market not controlled by predators," to name just a few things the Democrats aren't willing to work on, are things that a lot of us also need in order to survive.
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May 5, 2020 19:07
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Xombie posted:I never told them to vote for Biden. I'll continue to point this out, as it's a fact. This kind of "I'm not touching you" bullshit is extremely transparent and you're not fooling anyone.
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May 5, 2020 19:08
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Pussy Cartel posted:As it turns out, "healthcare, trans rights, felon enfranchisement, raised wages [and] a fair housing market not controlled by predators," to name just a few things the Democrats aren't willing to work on, are things that a lot of us also need in order to survive. If Biden isn't elected, then Trump will be, so I don't believe that me voting for Biden will have some negative effect on those things vs. me not voting for him.
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May 5, 2020 19:08
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How are u posted:I'm writing off (and just for this election, not like, forever) the Something Awful left that would rather see Trump elected than Joe Biden (if he ends up the candidate). That's just the thing: the Democrats seem to think that it's so self evident that they're the 'good guys' that they don't need to give people a reason to vote for them. I had a somewhat similar conversation elsewhere, in which a Democratic voter informed me that "college students don't exist" because they didn't come out to vote. The thought that people would show up by the busload for you if you gave them a reason to vote for your candidate never entered into the equation.
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May 5, 2020 19:08
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Xombie posted:Student loan forgiveness isn't a "payout", it's a thing that I require for my family to financially survive, long-term. It's a similar situation to much of my generation, and a big reason for the generational wealth gap. Yes it is, and my point is that you’re judging based on who you think will help you and your family not what’s best for the world, or at least that’s what you said. Which is the same attitude you claimed anarchist had disparagingly. I’m just working from your posts here, obviously that’s not the complete picture of anyone’s worldview.
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May 5, 2020 19:09
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How are u posted:If he tries he will face incredible pushback from the people who helped get him elected, that I know. I'm confident we can win that fight and make sure that a bailout comes with conditions that set up the managed-decline of the industry. Obama immediately dismissed the people who got him elected then spent the rest of his terms making their lives worse. They do not care once they're in office.
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May 5, 2020 19:09
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:No, you just repeatedly post passive-aggressive snipes about how people not voting for Biden are helping reelect Trump. We'll continue to point this out as well, as it's a fact. No, it isn't a fact. I've literally never said that people not voting for Biden are helping re-elect Trump.
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May 5, 2020 19:09
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Pussy Cartel posted:You (and a lot of other people besides, here on the forums and elsewhere) consistently write off anyone who refuses to fall in lockstep behind the Democratic candidate (which disproportionately tends to include minorities of all stripes) while writing off the stragglers as being non-existent at best or, worse yet, the "Something Awful left" or "Bernie or Busters." Our voices are consistently ignored except when it's convenient. If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank.
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May 5, 2020 19:09
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How are u posted:I'm as leftist as you, man. I think there should be a maximum wealth cap, nationalize the banks and the oil & gas industry, healthcare is a human right and should be free to all, open the borders to any immigrant who wants to come, no taking the franchise from felons, tear down wall st, hoist up the bankers, liquidate the military industrial complex, burn down all the charter schools, etc etc. How are u posted:Honestly I'm becoming more and more down with y'all doing your protest vote. Do it, feel good, and if things go the way I hope they do then we win a huge victory without you and can then safely write you off How are u posted:Would you even accept for a minute that I'm arguing in good faith? No, I don't think I will.
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Aren’t you explicitly voting based on which candidate will give you the best payout with no regard to how they handle the problems in the world? He's trying to weasel his way out of calling Jesse Ventura a libertarian by shifting from "ultra-capitalist free market libertarian" into "egalitarian anti-capitalist" through word trickery. Pentecoastal Elites posted:How? 
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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How are u posted:If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. what hard work are they doing exactly like if they're writing you off as a crank it might not be because they're principled warriors fighting within the system, it's because they're part of that system
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's just the thing: the Democrats seem to think that it's so self evident that they're the 'good guys' that they don't need to give people a reason to vote for them. I had a somewhat similar conversation elsewhere, in which a Democratic voter informed me that "college students don't exist" because they didn't come out to vote. The thought that people would show up by the busload for you if you gave them a reason to vote for your candidate never entered into the equation. Don’t forget how the voter suppression we all saw on TV apparently never happened and it’s a dumb conspiracy to argue there was any effort to suppress the vote among Bernie’s core demographics. No, actually, young people just don’t vote sweetie so why did you even think you had a chance
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Yes it is, and my point is that you’re judging based on who you think will help you and your family not what’s best for the world, or at least that’s what you said. Which is the same attitude you claimed anarchist had disparagingly. I also don't think Trump being reelected, which is the only outcome of Biden losing, is "what's best for the world".
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May 5, 2020 19:11
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's just the thing: the Democrats seem to think that it's so self evident that they're the 'good guys' that they don't need to give people a reason to vote for them. I had a somewhat similar conversation elsewhere, in which a Democratic voter informed me that "college students don't exist" because they didn't come out to vote. The thought that people would show up by the busload for you if you gave them a reason to vote for your candidate never entered into the equation. the "young people didn't vote" centrist talking point is insanely disingenuous considering half the country never had a chance to vote, the voter suppression and number fudging, and the outright hostage situation via pushing people to vote in a pandemic until bernie dropped
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May 5, 2020 19:12
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How are u posted:If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. Does automatically voting for anyone and everyone who gets the Democratic nomination give you power? I don't see how. Surely, as one humble voter, or as a group of humble voters, my power in the system comes from my capacity to withhold my vote until I get policy concessions Participating in the system means showing up and voting for the people who share your beliefs while refusing to vote for the people who don't share your beliefs; this encourages candidates to share your beliefs. Auto-voting for every democrat is avoiding doing that hard work.
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May 5, 2020 19:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Yes it is, and my point is that you’re judging based on who you think will help you and your family not what’s best for the world, or at least that’s what you said. Which is the same attitude you claimed anarchist had disparagingly. yeah people like politicians who will actually materially help them rather than mumble platitudes
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May 5, 2020 19:14
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How are u posted:If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. This is exactly how Democrats and other establishment groups have viewed civil rights and equal rights groups of all kinds that have refused to work within the system as it existed for generations now, and yet they still have the gall to position themselves as our champions. If you're just going to write us off as cranks, at least be honest about how you really see us instead of making empty promises and using the threat of further harm to us as tools to keep leftists in line.
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May 5, 2020 19:15
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How are u posted:the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. These people are working hard to elect a rapist.
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May 5, 2020 19:16
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Eminai posted:No, I don't think I will. None of that is contradictory unless you think that no True Leftist could even bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden to beat Trump.
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May 5, 2020 19:16
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How are u posted:If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. help i'm trans how do I build power within a system that barely sometimes recognizes I exist
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May 5, 2020 19:17
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rko posted:Don’t forget how the voter suppression we all saw on TV apparently never happened and it’s a dumb conspiracy to argue there was any effort to suppress the vote among Bernie’s core demographics. No, actually, young people just don’t vote sweetie so why did you even think you had a chance Yinlock posted:the "young people didn't vote" centrist talking point is insanely disingenuous considering half the country never had a chance to vote, the voter suppression and number fudging, and the outright hostage situation via pushing people to vote in a pandemic until bernie dropped Exactly. But it's college students' fault that they don't want to support a party that doesn't give a poo poo about them. How do you even "work within the system" of a party like that?
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May 5, 2020 19:17
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How are u posted:None of that is contradictory unless you think that no True Leftist could even bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden to beat Trump. no true leftists thinks working politely with entrenched power gets anything done
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May 5, 2020 19:18
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Jarmak posted:This is some incredibly disingenuous posting. I can hope for anything I want. I think trying to split some hair where he's not telling anyone to actually do anything to help Biden get elected but he's calling people who say that out loud Trump supporters is pretty illogical. Jarmak posted:Also Alex Jones is a sandy hook truther, Ventura platformed him, thus Ventura gave a platform to a sandy hook truther, none of this requires time travel. "He hadn't put those theories out yet" is a valid counter but it's not like his Sandy Hook stuff was out of character for Jones so I'm not sure why you think that's such an effective gotcha. Biden gave Strom Thurmond's eulogy, and MSNBC also hosted Alex Jones If you're arguing neither of them are worth voting for then okay maybe, but Xombie explicitly said he is planning to vote for Joe Biden so handwringing from him about platforming white supremacists is pretty lol, he is obviously fine with it or at least doesn't consider it disqualifying
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May 5, 2020 19:19
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Yinlock posted:what hard work are they doing exactly Running Progressives in state and local races, winning, governing responsibly, and building and growing a voter base that consistently comes out to vote for left candidates. Like what they're doing successfully in Virginia.
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May 5, 2020 19:19
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Pomp posted:help i'm trans how do I build power within a system that barely sometimes recognizes I exist Tell them that you'll always vote for them no matter what they say or do, and then they'll work hard to please you out of gratitude and the kindness of their hearts How are u posted:Running Progressives in state and local races, winning, governing responsibly, and building and growing a voter base that consistently comes out to vote for left candidates. Awesome! I wish there was a Progressive in the upcoming election. Let's work to make sure one gets nominated in 2024
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May 5, 2020 19:19
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How are u posted:None of that is contradictory unless you think that no True Leftist could even bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden to beat Trump. I get reading the arguments other people make is too much to ask of you, could you at least read the arguments you're making, though?
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May 5, 2020 19:20
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Yinlock posted:the "young people didn't vote" centrist talking point is insanely disingenuous considering half the country never had a chance to vote, the voter suppression and number fudging, and the outright hostage situation via pushing people to vote in a pandemic until bernie dropped It's much more delusional that disingenuous. Liberals have to believe that good things aren't possible. It must be absolute truth that the only path forwards is centrism, because if it weren't it would make them morally bankrupt not to promote progress. The impossibility of leftist movements must exist because it legitimizes their complacency. So liberals tell stories about how things can't get better, because if they ever could, they would be culpable for working to prevent it.
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May 5, 2020 19:20
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