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Its probably Tomino's indirect way of trying to emphasize how misguided Char is by trying to be just a pilot, something he's not even all that good at when compared to the likes of Amuro, instead of trying to be a leader.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:17
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he's a pretty poor leader, too.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:28
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Raxivace posted:Its probably Tomino's indirect way of trying to emphasize how misguided Char is by trying to be just a pilot, something he's not even all that good at, instead of trying to be a leader. Except people keep saying how good he is as a pilot. Lila even has a line along the lines of "I really hope that was the Red Comet, because anyone else kicking my rear end like that would be embarrassing." "Char's not a good pilot" is about as reasonable an extrapolation of the facts of the show as "Char is a highly empathetic person".
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Jun 5, 2020 07:30
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he's a skilled pilot, but char never remotely lived up to his inflated reputation. i don't think anyone could.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:43
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Isn't it stated somewhere that Char is a relatively weak Newtype? That Amuro, Lalah, Kamille and Judau have more powerful ingrained Newtype abilities, and that Char's initial advantage over Amuro comes from his greater combat experience. I don't remember where i heard this but I know that i encountered it somewhere.
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Jun 5, 2020 14:23
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i don't think fa ever tried piloting a ms that wasn't trash for idiot clowns, right? She tries to pilot the Zeta for a bit in the beginning of ZZ, but Judau is all like “you can’t handle the Zeta!” Or maybe she was trying to fight in the Methuss again, it’s been awhile. All I remember is that there were a few occasions where Fa tried to fight, and Judau would be like “you can’t handle this! Let me do it!” despite how Judau not only lacked experience but was getting his rear end kicked too at the start
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Jun 5, 2020 14:52
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I want the UC AU story where the strike force of Kai, Fa and Elle have to fight off Neo Zeon because everyone else has died. Sayla can be the captain.
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Jun 5, 2020 15:44
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:he's a skilled pilot, but char never remotely lived up to his inflated reputation. i don't think anyone could. In CCA amuro is such a monster that he's tearing through all of neo zeon's aces like they're nothing. The only time they even begin to give him any considerable trouble is when they take a hostage. Char's the only one actually makes him work for a win and they get each other down robot fisticuffs. I mean, Char saved Gyunei by shooting amuro's beam rifle shot. Char's reputation is completely legit. Reset Smith posted:Isn't it stated somewhere that Char is a relatively weak Newtype? That Amuro, Lalah, Kamille and Judau have more powerful ingrained Newtype abilities, and that Char's initial advantage over Amuro comes from his greater combat experience. I don't remember where i heard this but I know that i encountered it somewhere. Amuro and Lala had a much more newtype connection than Char did and Char struggled to use the zeong to it's full potential. Lala never seemed to have that problem, which is where the whole weak newtype thing comes from, I think.
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Jun 5, 2020 15:51
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Char is an ace, and probably the best Zeon ace that we see during any of the runs (maybe Haman is better, but it's hard to say if his rear end kicking at the end of Zeta to her is more on their ability as pilots or the fact that the Hyaku Shiki was outdated at the start of Zeta). Amuro is just like a tick ahead of him, which is a huge driving force for him. Char isn't inflated, but he is diminished by his rival, you know causing him to create an entire scenario to draw him out so he could prove he wasn't a tick behind under the guise of we gotta liberate space from the earth sphere with this asteroid.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:01
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Char survives fighting Amuro.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:07
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I feel like by CCA, Amuro is definitely both a better pilot and a better newtype than Char. At least according to MSV and Moon, Amuro was constantly piloting and in service from the Gryps War up to CCA, while Char spent most of his time doing necessary back stage stuff. Even at the start of CCA, Amuro had a “not ideal, but I can make this work” kind of confidence when taking on Char and Gyunei in the Re-Gz. But even then, Char survived his encounters without dying and he’s still a drat good pilot despite how much better his main rival was at that point
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Jun 5, 2020 18:12
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Char is a good pilot and probably the best Zeon has but his fight with Amuro at the end of CCA isn't close. Amuro isn't a "tick better", he's just flat out better. Which probably just says more about what a monster CCA Amuro is than anything else.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:31
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Haman is an absolute beast whenever she gets in her Qubeley. Remember that Zeta ends with her giving Kamille, Scirocco and Char a mauling, and ZZ ends with her only getting killed against a very powerful Newtype in a highly advanced suit because she chose to hold back. She's definitely in the running for 'best UC pilot'.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:39
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:he's a pretty poor leader, too. I disagree. Char pulled together a Zeon force with political and monetary backing, a home colony in Sweetwater and enough resources they could harry the Federation, along with a plan that used their corrupt nature against them. Which is pretty solid leadership all around. He was obviously well loved in the colonies too. We see the most explicit example in Sweetwater itself, with people literally singing his praises, but there were enough small scale demonstrations in other Sides that some of the leadership of those Sides didn't want to commit to helping the Federation, out of fear that Zeon would win and/or their own people would revolt. He's a good leader in 0079 too, and is able to correctly deduce the actions others will take and use that against them to affect plans that allowed him to take on foes with greater resources than him on a regular basis. He still lost, because he underestimated the Gundam, White Base and/or Amuro, but his ability to read and exploit others made him a far greater threat than someone with a handful of Zakus had any right to be. Reset Smith posted:Isn't it stated somewhere that Char is a relatively weak Newtype? That Amuro, Lalah, Kamille and Judau have more powerful ingrained Newtype abilities, and that Char's initial advantage over Amuro comes from his greater combat experience. I don't remember where i heard this but I know that i encountered it somewhere. I don't know if there's ever been any kind of official statement on the matter, but it's certainly not the reading I get. Char doesn't awaken as a Newtype until A Baoa Qu, but in those two episodes he has several Newtype flashes where he can sense things, shares a Newtype moment where he shares thoughts/feelings with either Amuro or Lalah's ghost and is ability to control the Zeong's funnels without any training or problems. Which isn't actually that much weaker than Amuro or Lalah really. In fact, the only thing that Amuro does that's really outside that realm is guiding the rest of the crew of the White Base to safety in the final moments of the show, and it's not a level of control or precision he ever exhibits again. Lalah didn't even do that much honestly, and about the only things she does as a Newtype are brief flashes of future events (the swan will die, the Gundam will win a fight) and control funnels. Char is about level with Amuro in Char's Counterattack too, and both use funnels and psycoframe, sense things with flashes of prescience and appear to communicate with others telepathetically. The only thing Amuro does that Char doesn't is act as a focal point for the will of others through the Nu Gundam, which the film suggests Char could have done too, if he'd had the same desires as others around him, because he has a psycoframe cockpit too. Char doesn't really come off as notably weaker than Amuro in either 0079 or Char's Counterattack. Monaghan posted:Char struggled to use the zeong to it's full potential. I don't see how. He was immediately able to control it's two wired funnels to shoot at 10 different angles from multiple directions, while moving the Zeong itself around as well as he ever did a normal mobile suit, with no training whatsoever so far as we know. That doesn't really seem like a struggle to me. Rabbi Tupac posted:Char is a good pilot and probably the best Zeon has but his fight with Amuro at the end of CCA isn't close. Amuro isn't a "tick better", he's just flat out better. Which probably just says more about what a monster CCA Amuro is than anything else. Char made Amuro run through all his weapons, as well as one other one that he picked up, and Amuro failed to kill him with several traps; that's not "flat out better". In the end the fight comes down to one mistake after several minutes of combat, and even after that mistake, when Amuro is fighting against a one-armed opponent in a fist fight, Char still manages to draw out his loss and frustrate Amuro. That's about as close as you're ever going to get.
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Jun 5, 2020 19:43
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Amuro used up all but one of his fin funnels, his shield, and most of his bazooka rounds fighting Quess and Gyunei, still managed to score a hit on the Sazabi with his bazooka trap, managed to completely even the playing field again within seconds after Char destroyed his beam rifle by immediately returning the favor and destroying Char’s, the Geara Doga rifle he stole did nothing to the Sazabi’s Armor so that gun was effectively useless, and sustained pretty minor damage (to Char’s credit, it was close to the cockpit) before outmanuevering him to cut off his arm, and then beat the poo poo out of his suit. And for most of that fight, Amuro’s primary focus was -not- Char, it was blowing up Axis (and was willing to sacrifice the Nu to do this). Nah, Amuro was flat out better in that encounter, and Char’s attempts to fight back do not invalidate that MechaX fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 20:41
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Here's the real question: Amuro vs. Haman, who would win? Like before they obviously come to suddenly understand each other and turn around to drop Char into the Spanish announcer's table.
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Jun 5, 2020 20:52
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Nessus posted:Here's the real question: Amuro vs. Haman, who would win? Zeta-era Amuro in the Dijeh? I'd give it to Haman. CCA-era Haman in some custom late Neo Zeon hellbeast? All bets are off, but Amuro would probably have a much tougher time than he did against Char. That lady is dangerous.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:03
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Nessus posted:Here's the real question: Amuro vs. Haman, who would win? Well Judau beat Haman straight up at the end, so probably Amuro. Also I just looked up Judau on the wiki. He's supposed to be 14 in ZZ? It makes sense that he's more mature than Amuro and Kamille still since he grew up in the slums looking after his sister, but that still seems ridic. Really makes Bright look like even more of a scumbag for using him as a pilot in the first place (after dumping off poor Kamille and hosing out the Zeta Gundam) and then sending the kids off to attack Neo Zeon while he hung back with the fleet at the end.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:07
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MechaX posted:Amuro used up all but one of his fin funnels, his shield, and most of his bazooka rounds fighting Quess and Gyunei Amuro uses 2 bazooka rounds to scare Quess, along with one to destroy Gyunei at the cost of his shield. We don't see how he loses the funnels, but it also doesn't matter, because Char has only one funnel too, by the time they meet; having lost 5 of his 6 funnels destroying the nuclear missiles Bright launched. MechaX posted:And for most of that fight, Amuro’s primary focus was -not- Char, it was blowing up Axis (and was willing to sacrifice the Nu to do this). I will never understand why people get this impression; Bright lays out a plan in the briefing that doesn't include the mobile suits destroying Axis. The plan is to try and destroy with the 4 nuclear missiles they do have, and if that fails, attempt to blow it up from within using regular explosives in the mining tunnels. Amuro and the mobile suits aren't there to blow Axis up; they're there to protect Bright while he blows it up. Which is what we see on screen too. When Amuro gets out of the Nu Gundam to go in to Axis, he immediately concludes that Bright is still inside Axis and then spends the entire time inside Axis laying a trap for, baiting and trying to kill Char. He doesn't spend one second of his time inside Axis trying to blow it up in any way, shape or form. He takes a few attacks of opportunity to blow up parts of the engine or the ship holding nuclear missiles while he can, but that's it. He spends the fight kiting Char, because that's how he fights. He did the same thing at the start of the movie when Char showed up to help Gyunei: retreat inside the asteroid with the hope Char would follow. Char didn't bite that time though, because he'd already achieved his objective and didn't actually want to fight Amuro at the time. I actually timed it a few months ago, out of curiosity, and Amuro spends 4 minutes and 26 seconds fighting Char in some manner and only 1 minute and 9 seconds either actively avoiding Char (which is really just hiding or retreating, which is more for position or surprise than to lose him) or just doing something else once they meet. If you want to see what it's like when Amuro is actually trying to lose Char, then you only have to look at A Baoa Qu, where Amuro outright says that he's trying to lose Char, and vents frustration on at least two occasions that Char has found him, when he only wants to avoid Char and kill the Zabis. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 21:08
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Randallteal posted:Well Judau beat Haman straight up at the end, so probably Amuro. Also I just looked up Judau on the wiki. He's supposed to be 14 in ZZ? It makes sense that he's more mature than Amuro and Kamille still since he grew up in the slums looking after his sister, but that still seems ridic. Really makes Bright look like even more of a scumbag for using him as a pilot in the first place (after dumping off poor Kamille and hosing out the Zeta Gundam) and then sending the kids off to attack Neo Zeon while he hung back with the fleet at the end. Like Bright has seen the payoff for letting hotheaded young men pilot the Gundam.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:09
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Nessus posted:Here's the real question: Amuro vs. Haman, who would win? Amuro. No question. Haman's been shown to be one of the UC's best when she's got her cutting edge personal Mobile Suit, letting her put all her abilities into play. Amuro's been shown to be the best when he's in a cargo plane.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:10
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Nessus posted:Like Bright has seen the payoff for letting hotheaded young men pilot the Gundam. Yea; it works, and ends up helping win whatever war they're in. It does so at cost, but it does so all the same. Which is why he just tries to help Banagher by the time of Unicorn, with patience and a good talk, rather than violence or intimidation.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:11
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Yeah I dunno if Zeta-era Amuro could have beat Haman with what he had at the time. The Dijeh kind of a Turbo Rick Dias but doesn't really have any psycommu or biosensor or anything like that to match some of the terrifying stuff Haman was able to pull off. Plus, the only time Haman lost was when she hadn't piloted a mobile suit in a year and deliberately held back against Judau (and she liked Judau anyway, so there's that). CCA Amuro vs. a Super Quebely or something is what I would like to see. tsob posted:Amuro uses 2 bazooka rounds to scare Quess, along with one to destroy Gyunei at the cost of his shield. We don't see how he loses the funnels, but it also doesn't matter, because Char has only one funnel too, by the time they meet; having lost 5 of his 6 funnels destroying the nuclear missiles Bright launched. It's probably more likely that he drained those funnels because he used all but one of the funnels for his energy shield trick while trying to fight Quess and Gyunei. But that was more to illustrate that by the time he fought Char, the Nu was already starting to get taxed for ammunition (but I'll give you that the Sazabi blew through its energy pretty quickly). quote:I will never understand why people get this impression; Bright lays out a plan in the briefing that doesn't include the mobile suits destroying Axis. The plan is to try and destroy with the 4 nuclear missiles they do have, and if that fails, attempt to blow it up from within using regular explosives in the mining tunnels. Amuro and the mobile suits aren't there to blow Axis up; they're there to protect Bright while he blows it up. Which is what we see on screen too. When Amuro gets out of the Nu Gundam to go in to Axis, he immediately concludes that Bright is still inside Axis and then spends the entire time inside Axis laying a trap for, baiting and trying to kill Char. He doesn't spend one second of his time inside Axis trying to blow it up in any way, shape or form. He takes a few attacks of opportunity to blow up parts of the engine or the ship holding nuclear missiles while he can, but that's it. He spends the fight kiting Char, because that's how he fights. He did the same thing at the start of the movie when Char showed up to help Gyunei: retreat inside the asteroid with the hope Char would follow. Char didn't bite that time though, because he'd already achieved his objective and didn't actually want to fight Amuro at the time. I forget if this point was also mentioned in Bright's briefing, but Amuro was specifically going for the Axis thrusters as well (I think he found that nuke-stuffed battleship by complete accident). He is stated to have explicitly stopped one, and I think the animation reflected that he took out a second one. I count all of Amuro's efforts to either slow down Axis, buy time for Bright's crew at the possible expense of his Gundam, and subsequently lead Char to chasing him while he's doing these first two points as falling under the "blow up Axis" plan umbrella rather than the alternative of Amuro just sticking to a 1v1 vs. Char as soon as he sees him and not doing much else. MechaX fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 22:47
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Do you count the times where he specifically goes out of his way to set up traps for Char, fails to kill Char and then vents frustration that his attack didn't kill Char as him trying and failing to kill Char? Or are those traps just him bumbling through without really thinking about it or putting any effort in?
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Jun 5, 2020 23:34
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tsob posted:Do you count the times where he specifically goes out of his way to set up traps for Char, fails to kill Char and then vents frustration that his attack didn't kill Char as him trying and failing to kill Char? Or are those traps just him bumbling through without really thinking about it or putting any effort in? When they’re actually inside of Axis? I count that as failing to kill Char that is independent from his capabilities as a mobile suit pilot for obvious reasons, especially since the discussion was more on their mobile suit piloting prowess While piloting the only trap Amuro had was the bazooka trap which worked and the trick with the dummies that worked, and the only frustration he vented while piloting was when he got his bean saber kicked away and then proceeded to fight the Sazabi like he was a Tekken character. He was putting in effort and yeah, Char wasn’t folding like he was Kou or something but.. I mean, Amuro still had him pretty beat MechaX fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 23:40
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Haman falls on the "extremely powerful newtype + good pilot" scale. She's as dangerous as she is because she has a Newtype-focused machine to back up her natural talents, but it's worth remember the Qubeley is one absolutely fucker of a machine even if it isn't as fancy as some of the gimmicky ones. She'd lose to Amuro in an equal battle but there's precious few other people I think you can say that about in the early UC at least. Even versus Judau it was a whole lot of factors, not a lack of piloting skill, that lead to her losing.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:43
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Always found it interesting that Haman kept using her original Qubeley all the way to the end rather than upgrade to one of the later superior models
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Jun 5, 2020 23:49
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Amuro could beat everyone but Goku. Sorry y'all, that's science.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:54
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Shinjobi posted:Amuro could beat everyone but Goku. Sorry y'all, that's science. Incorrect because Max Jenius can beat Goku.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:55
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Gohan Blanco > Amuro > Goku (SSB)
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Jun 5, 2020 23:57
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Real talk does Max Jenius lose any match up ever?
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Jun 6, 2020 00:01
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MechaX posted:Real talk does Max Jenius lose any match up ever?
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Jun 6, 2020 00:03
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Nessus posted:Looked like he lost pretty bad in divorce court I was about to say something like that.
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Jun 6, 2020 00:05
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MechaX posted:Real talk does Max Jenius lose any match up ever? He loses a genius-off to Power from Chainsaw Man, with her 1,000 IQ
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Jun 6, 2020 00:06
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MechaX posted:Real talk does Max Jenius lose any match up ever? In terms of sheer piloting skill probably not. He's treated as absolutely absurdly talented to the point even crossover media will usually treat him as one of the absolute top aces. In terms of personal life Miria has him beaten.
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Jun 6, 2020 00:11
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MechaX posted:While piloting the only trap Amuro had was the bazooka trap which worked and the trick with the dummies that worked It did not. Amuro was aiming to kill Char with the bazooka shot, and Char blocked it with his shield. After which Amuro says in an annoyed tone "he dodged that too". The "too" referring to the fact he'd tried to hit Char only a few seconds earlier with several beams, and then given an annoyed "he dodged it". Amuro was trying to kill Char, which implies effort. Effort that wasn't actually successful, and which Char was able to dodge, block or deflect. Which includes about a minute or so of fighting inside one of Axis' thrusters, where they duel with sabers with no conclusive winner, both acting and defending in turns. Which again, is effort, and which again, did not kill Char. Amuro did not just concentrate on Char for 30 seconds at the end and defeat him with almost no effort, like he was well above Amuro. Char evaded several traps and made Amuro run through lots of weapons, while dueling him for several minutes without issue, putting Amuro on the defensive at times during that duel. drrockso20 posted:Always found it interesting that Haman kept using her original Qubeley all the way to the end rather than upgrade to one of the later superior models Did the later ones do anything but add a couple more funnels? MechaX posted:Real talk does Max Jenius lose any match up ever? Him being the best is kind of the point of the character, and he's there so that it's obvious straight away that Hikaru is not meant to be the bestest pilot and the story can just concentrate on his arc instead. He's not only the best pilot, but he's a really good singer, great at arcade games, can knife fight a trained Zentradi etc. While admiring her body as he does it, if I recall. It even continues in to 7, where he's an almost absurdly good ship captain as well as pilot, and can predict where enemies will defold with pin point accuracy even with no warning. Then he defolds just above the surface of a planet in a VF, and proceeds to do a perfect trench run before planting a nuke while everyone else is struggling to fight around the trench. He's kind of ridiculous. I don't know that he's better than a Newtype, but he's certainly comparable to one, and even fought Millia in the dark during DYRL, using only the light from shots to aim and dodge. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 00:14
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tsob posted:It did not. Amuro was aiming to kill Char with the bazooka shot, and Char blocked it with his shield. After which Amuro says in an annoyed tone "he dodged that too". The "too" referring to the fact he'd tried to hit Char only a few seconds earlier with several beams, and then given an annoyed "he dodged it". Amuro was trying to kill Char, which implies effort. Effort that wasn't actually successful, and which Char was able to dodge, block or deflect. Which includes about a minute or so of fighting inside one of Axis' thrusters, where they duel with sabers with no conclusive winner, both acting and defending in turns. Which again, is effort, and which again, did not kill Char. Amuro did not just concentrate on Char for 30 seconds at the end and defeat him with almost no effort, like he was well above Amuro. Char evaded several traps and made Amuro run through lots of weapons, while dueling him for several minutes without issue, putting Amuro on the defensive at times during that duel. I dunno, with those first couple of shots my impression was that he shot a mobile suit in the distance, they dodged, and expressed surprise that figured it's got to be Char at that point. For me, being well above does not necessarily mean that you're not putting in effort, but... Amuro definitely was better in that fight. I can't even say that Char was dueling Amuro "without issue" either; he was losing weapons like crazy as well and I believe even team-killed that Geara Doga who was in his way trying to get at Amuro? This is different from say... Kira vs. Rau where both suits were completely wrecked in their fight as they pushed their suits, and themselves, to the absolute limit; the Nu literally beat the Sazabi down to using its escape pod as a basketball while the Nu, while weaponless, was mostly intact. Edit: To pull terminology from fighting games, Char did the one best thing he could prove in that fight; to show that he's not free (but he still got washed) MechaX fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 00:47
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MechaX posted:I dunno, with those first couple of shots my impression was that he shot a mobile suit in the distance, they dodged, and expressed surprise that figured it's got to be Char at that point. They're not distant from each other, so I don't know how you got that impression. Yes, Char lost weapons too, and I never meant to give the impression he didn't. He lost as many weapons as Amuro. Which is kind of the point. Amuro has to put in effort to wear down Char (and vice versa), until they're both down to their fists and even when Amuro is fist-fighting a one-armed Char, Char still makes Amuro work to get the win, by dodging around for a short while as he continues trying to attack. Amuro's win might have been in a mostly intact Nu, but that doesn't really mean poo poo, because not everything has to be a fight where both suits are absolutely destroyed and Char was a good enough opponent to push Amuro regarldess of what his suit looked like afterwards.
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Jun 6, 2020 01:10
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Amuro's fight with Char is perfect because he so completely dunks on him at the end that Char is left resorting to "well you only won with your powerful robot that I gave you so really I beat myself" because he cannot with a straight face claim that he's better than Amuro. This is the man that could say "I've never betrayed anyone, I've only ever been on my own side" with a straight face. That's how completely Amuro beat him. It's not a close finish, but it's not a complete blowout either, Char makes Amuro work for it, even if there's no universe where he wins that fight. It gets said a lot that Char is the better pilot, but not by much, while Amuro is a much more powerful Newtype and we all know what that means as far as winning MS battles go, especially when suits that put that ability to use are involved.
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Jun 6, 2020 01:36
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tsob posted:They're not distant from each other, so I don't know how you got that impression. Rewatched it; Char comes from behind him, Amuro dodges and immediately counter-attacks; Char dodged it and is like "He dodged it? Char!" as he... continues to fly towards the Axis thrusters. quote:Yes, Char lost weapons too, and I never meant to give the impression he didn't. He lost as many weapons as Amuro. Which is kind of the point. Amuro has to put in effort to wear down Char (and vice versa), until they're both down to their fists and even when Amuro is fist-fighting a one-armed Char, Char still makes Amuro work to get the win, by dodging around for a short while as he continues trying to attack. Amuro's win might have been in a mostly intact Nu, but that doesn't really mean poo poo, because not everything has to be a fight where both suits are absolutely destroyed and Char was a good enough opponent to push Amuro regarldess of what his suit looked like afterwards. I mean... outside of the funnels lost by the explosion Amuro himself created, he... kinda didn't. Amuro loses a beam rifle and a beam saber (and I guess another beam rifle that was useless), while Char loses his gun, both of his beam sabers, a tomahawk, and his left arm. And the fact that his suit was intact does mean something because I mean... he didn't take nearly as much damage as he ended up giving his opponent, let alone the damage Char was hoping he could give Amuro. At this point, I'm not even sure what the argument is; is it over whether or not Amuro had to show effort to fight Char, which he did? Or that Char fought equally with Amuro, which he didn't in the end, or that Char is as good as a pilot as Amuro in CCA, which he also isn't? MechaX fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 01:39
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