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Eej posted:Are there any other cool infantry focused and non-horde armies out there aside from SM and Death Guard now? Sisters seem cool but lol $100 for a box of 10 Sisters and some of their best units are still rocking that 90s bondage aesthetic I'm not a fan of. Tau are cool but I have no idea how the points changes have affected their good stuff and it seems kind of scary to run a bunch of guys who can't throw a punch in the "stand and hold objectives" edition. Necrons are a bit up in the air since they should be getting a whole bunch of new stuff soon and their current stuff is either really neat or extremely goofy (sometimes both). Just to be clear you know sisters got a rerelease right? If you dont like their current aesthetic thats fine, just making it clear. Eldar are an elite force but they kinda struggle as an infantry force atm. Custodes are probably gonna be a great infantry army since the point adjustment was pretty kind to them. Necrons are probably a good call regardless because after the indomitus box ebay will be flooded with cheap necrons.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:02
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Maybe they’re planning an actual generalised points-based system. That might be how they’re planning on avoiding power creep. Which I think someone was saying they were gonna do to some extent. Like average 3.5 damage weapon (d6) is base 5 points, + 1 point per AP, + 1 points per x amount of range, multiply by shots and special rules or some such. I don’t know. For all intents and purposes that’s already what’s happening, except more implicitly with a lot of special case fudging. It seems to be that there are too many weird rules to really set down a generalised system. It’s also a problem because meta-changes will change how much something is objectively worthy in real games etc. Could do a similar thing for individual models/units. It’s just surprising to me how bad some of these new points costs are. Some of the stuff that was already quite good gets no increase while things that were objective garbage was increased by way more than the average. I’m also confused by them just trashing the previous painstakingly balanced stuff. Like grenade launchers were finally almost good. A ton of stuff like that. E: vvv remove rapid fire from the plasma (make it a space marine rule or something to have rapid fire with rifle’ish weapons). Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 16:13
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Mikey Purp posted:I was watching a tabletop tactics vid last night where they heavily implied that it was #3. Which I agree seems like a breathtakingly stupid way to approach the new edition but at least there's hope, I guess? I don't believe this can be true personally. What changes could you possibly make to mean that a flamethrower, a grenade launcher, and a plasma gun are all equally as good in the hands of a Guardsman? I can maybe hypothetically believe that Gretchin and Guardsmen cost the same points because Gretchin are going to get some cool rules soon or Guardsmen are going to lose some, but unless you change a Grenade Launcher pretty significantly, it's never as good as a Plasma Gun.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:25
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I ended up picking up some Tau today and am struggling to come up with a good color scheme. I like the studio white, but I already play White Scars, so don't necessarily want to do another full white army. Anyone seen anything else cool? Not really feeling the Tonka much either.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:20
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Making grenade launchers a 24" Assault missile launcher might scrape towards a plasma gun in terms of usefulness.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:27
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Give them smoke grenades so they can get the vehicle smoke rule and not die when they're camping on a point. You could even let the rest of the squad shoot if you wanted to. That would definitely be a enticing options on cheap squads of guard you're sprinting over the board to grab stuff.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:41
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Give grenade launcher a marker light or something that gives +1 to shooting as a capability.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:56
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Give grenade launchers t-shirt canisters so they can shoot motivational t-shirts at their fellow units for +1 leadership. "I <3 Emperor"
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Jul 18, 2020 17:58
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Gas or Fireburst grenades like from 30k?
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Jul 18, 2020 18:00
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Kitchner posted:I don't believe this can be true personally. What changes could you possibly make to mean that a flamethrower, a grenade launcher, and a plasma gun are all equally as good in the hands of a Guardsman? I can maybe hypothetically believe that Gretchin and Guardsmen cost the same points because Gretchin are going to get some cool rules soon or Guardsmen are going to lose some, but unless you change a Grenade Launcher pretty significantly, it's never as good as a Plasma Gun.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:03
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SerCypher posted:Give grenade launchers t-shirt canisters so they can shoot motivational t-shirts at their fellow units for +1 leadership. This is obviously the best idea, but will GW have the guts to implement it?
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Jul 18, 2020 18:04
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Kitchner posted:I don't believe this can be true personally. What changes could you possibly make to mean that a flamethrower, a grenade launcher, and a plasma gun are all equally as good in the hands of a Guardsman? I can maybe hypothetically believe that Gretchin and Guardsmen cost the same points because Gretchin are going to get some cool rules soon or Guardsmen are going to lose some, but unless you change a Grenade Launcher pretty significantly, it's never as good as a Plasma Gun. Grenade Launchers went to the same points as Plasma because it now has Blast, and all the Blast weapons went up more than non-Blast Weapons did. And to be fair to the GL, it theoretically can kill six Cultists or Termagants in one shot. It's not going to once accuracy and wounds and saves are factored in, but it could. And that's why its costed like that, the Blast Tax. We'll have to see in play whether Blast weapons are really all that...personally, I doubt it since I expect hordes to be few and far between, replaced by MSU for everyone...but GW is assuming that Blast Weapons are always going to be great and are pricing them that way. They're probably over-reacting, as usual, but that's almost certainly the thought process involved.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:12
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Kitchner posted:I don't believe this can be true personally. What changes could you possibly make to mean that a flamethrower, a grenade launcher, and a plasma gun are all equally as good in the hands of a Guardsman? I can maybe hypothetically believe that Gretchin and Guardsmen cost the same points because Gretchin are going to get some cool rules soon or Guardsmen are going to lose some, but unless you change a Grenade Launcher pretty significantly, it's never as good as a Plasma Gun. Yeah, the impression I got from that vid, and a similar one from splinter mind is less that the points make sense with the upcoming changes, but rather that changes are coming so fast that GW half-assed these points because they would quickly be obsolete. It sounded like playtesters were mostly testing with new codexes, and were not trying to accurately cost stuff from 8e codexes. I'm pretty skeptical that GW is going to be able to deliver that though, unless they are planning on churning out two codexes a month.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:13
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EdsTeioh posted:I ended up picking up some Tau today and am struggling to come up with a good color scheme. I like the studio white, but I already play White Scars, so don't necessarily want to do another full white army. Anyone seen anything else cool? Not really feeling the Tonka much either. Tau do really well with bright and bold schemes, IMO. White and red became the default scheme in the images for a reason! I'm going with a teal/turquoise and yellow for mine. I've also seen a pink.purple vaporwave themed scheme that I really liked.Of the default schemes, I actually like Kel'shan a lot - it's grey with a strategic amount of blue/black and with yellow spot color, which means the base armor is pretty easy and you can focus on certain spots to make it stand out.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:20
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mr_stibbons posted:Yeah, the impression I got from that vid, and a similar one from splinter mind is less that the points make sense with the upcoming changes, but rather that changes are coming so fast that GW half-assed these points because they would quickly be obsolete. It sounded like playtesters were mostly testing with new codexes, and were not trying to accurately cost stuff from 8e codexes. I'm pretty skeptical that GW is going to be able to deliver that though, unless they are planning on churning out two codexes a month. Given that, as far as I can tell, the supplemental codexes for Space Marines (Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc) were pretty popular, I think we'll see something like that for ALL the factions in the game. So the main Necron codex followed by specific Dynasty books, Guard codex and Regimental books, and so on. I'm a little concerned that they haven't announced any of the new codexes yet, though. I'd have thought that at least the Necron codex would be coming out at the same time as 9th edition proper, but as far as I know there's been no official word on that score.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:21
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The Deleter posted:Tau do really well with bright and bold schemes, IMO. White and red became the default scheme in the images for a reason! I'm going with a teal/turquoise and yellow for mine. I've also seen a pink.purple vaporwave themed scheme that I really liked.Of the default schemes, I actually like Kel'shan a lot - it's grey with a strategic amount of blue/black and with yellow spot color, which means the base armor is pretty easy and you can focus on certain spots to make it stand out. Grey with yellow was what I was leaning towards; basically the Space Wolf scheme. I agree on the bold colors though. Currently looking at Gundams for inspiration. If I DIDN’T do White Scars is jump all over the stock scheme though.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:35
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Newbie question regarding paint schemes: so am I mistaken in assuming that a custom chapter/custom craftworld/custom dynasty/whatever is going to always be more flexible on the tabletop than going for a specific canon army? Like, with a custom space marines chapter, can't you just kinda say "okay these guys are successors of <chapter with their own codex>" for the purposes of using a different codex army's rules pretty much every game, rather than pigeonholing yourself into, say, always playing your Dark Angels as Dark Angels or whatever?
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Jul 18, 2020 19:12
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Drone posted:Newbie question regarding paint schemes: so am I mistaken in assuming that a custom chapter/custom craftworld/custom dynasty/whatever is going to always be more flexible on the tabletop than going for a specific canon army? Like, with a custom space marines chapter, can't you just kinda say "okay these guys are successors of <chapter with their own codex>" for the purposes of using a different codex army's rules pretty much every game, rather than pigeonholing yourself into, say, always playing your Dark Angels as Dark Angels or whatever? It's been my experience that sticking hard and fast to color schemes generally applies only to Marine armies and Guard that have physically different models. I'm not terribly sure most players could identify different Forge Worlds, Septs, Dynasties, etc. I played Tau for years in 5th-6th and honestly couldn't name a single sept then and still can't.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:18
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jng2058 posted:Given that, as far as I can tell, the supplemental codexes for Space Marines (Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc) were pretty popular, I think we'll see something like that for ALL the factions in the game. So the main Necron codex followed by specific Dynasty books, Guard codex and Regimental books, and so on.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:19
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Drone posted:Newbie question regarding paint schemes: so am I mistaken in assuming that a custom chapter/custom craftworld/custom dynasty/whatever is going to always be more flexible on the tabletop than going for a specific canon army? Like, with a custom space marines chapter, can't you just kinda say "okay these guys are successors of <chapter with their own codex>" for the purposes of using a different codex army's rules pretty much every game, rather than pigeonholing yourself into, say, always playing your Dark Angels as Dark Angels or whatever? Totally depends on context. Most casual players would be ok with you just saying "My guys are actually X even though they are painted like Y". Tournaments have different rules, most are ok with it as long as you're consistent (e.g. you can't hjave two different chapters in two detachments but they all look like dark angels) but others are stricter (GW official tournaments are if you paint them like a chapter, they are that chapter, which is thee harshest). So yes painting them as a chapter you totally made up lets you keep all your options open, but unless you're going to tournaments or whatever it doesn't massively matter normally. Also there may be a bit of snobbery in some local scenes about someone switching chapters for the latest flavour of the month, and being able to do it because of your colour scheme won't stop that. As pointed out as well for most armies people wouldn't even recognise them as specific factions anyway. Marines and Guard are the most obvious, but now Guard only have Cadian and Catachan models frankly that may sort of fade from memory over time too.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:19
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So now I've got a person dilemma. I'm going to be painting up some Carcharodons and I'm debating between sandy desert bases or metal spaceship decking bases. I think desert? It would probably offer better contrast to the grey power armor than the steel decking.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:31
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You could split the difference and do rusted out starship decking.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:38
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Did 9E maker stompas
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Jul 18, 2020 20:02
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EdsTeioh posted:Grey with yellow was what I was leaning towards; basically the Space Wolf scheme. I agree on the bold colors though. Currently looking at Gundams for inspiration. If I DIDN’T do White Scars is jump all over the stock scheme though. I saw a color scheme of denim grey (Vallejo or scale75 I think) and yellow for space wolves that looked pretty amazing, and was giving me some serious Gundam MK II vibes
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Jul 18, 2020 20:11
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Just finished up some infiltrators and an impulsor for my not raven guard. It's super easy with the chipping medium and just washes.     
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Jul 18, 2020 20:21
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How do people feel about palette swapped special characters? If I wanted to use bobby G in my custom chapter for example. I would run the rest of the army using the ultramarine rules.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:22
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Psyber Spine posted:How do people feel about palette swapped special characters? If I wanted to use bobby G in my custom chapter for example. I would run the rest of the army using the ultramarine rules. As long as it's all discernible what is what, the list is written out, and the army is codex legal no-one worth playing against will have a problem and anyone who does can go gently caress themselves. Tell them you're color blind or some poo poo.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:31
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Psyber Spine posted:How do people feel about palette swapped special characters? If I wanted to use bobby G in my custom chapter for example. I would run the rest of the army using the ultramarine rules. You just want to paint Ultramarines a different color? Fuckin do exactly that and anyone giving you poo poo isn’t someone you want to game with.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:34
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kommisar posted:Just finished up some infiltrators and an impulsor for my not raven guard. It's super easy with the chipping medium and just washes. The Impulsor is starting to grow on me when I see paint schemes like this. Still dumb that you can't assault out of the assault vehicle though.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:38
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Drone posted:Newbie question regarding paint schemes: so am I mistaken in assuming that a custom chapter/custom craftworld/custom dynasty/whatever is going to always be more flexible on the tabletop than going for a specific canon army? Like, with a custom space marines chapter, can't you just kinda say "okay these guys are successors of <chapter with their own codex>" for the purposes of using a different codex army's rules pretty much every game, rather than pigeonholing yourself into, say, always playing your Dark Angels as Dark Angels or whatever? For the 'normal' marine chapters, that is ultra marines, imperial fists, salamanders, raven guard, etc., you're pretty much spot on. Saying my 'custom chapter' is playing with ultra marine tactics is normally fine. There are specific HQs (Guilliman for the ultras, Tor Garadon for imperial fists, Adrax for salamanders, the lead singer from my chemical romance for raven guard) which can only be run with those chapters, and not a successor chapter, so it would look a little weird if you painted them in your successor colors, but it's not a huge problem as long as you run them as that chapter. You could also play your custom chapter as an actual successor chapter with the custom trait rules that exists for that, but that excludes the special dudes. For more, uhm, awkward chapters (dork angels, blood angels, grey knights, to some extent death watch, etc.) they actually have a bunch of specific models which can only be run as them, or as successors to them iirc. like sanguinary guard, deathwing knights, nemesis dreadnoughts etc. Psyber Spine posted:How do people feel about palette swapped special characters? If I wanted to use bobby G in my custom chapter for example. I would run the rest of the army using the ultramarine rules. I think it's completely fine. As long as you use the chapter rules with the special characters. The youtuber Winters does this with his admech. He has Cawl painted up with his own paint scheme, and only uses him when using Mars forgeworld rules. It can look a little weird, because for example guilliman is so iconic, but as long as you're following the rules, but just have a different paint scheme I can't see anyone stopping you.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:39
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Psyber Spine posted:How do people feel about palette swapped special characters? If I wanted to use bobby G in my custom chapter for example. I would run the rest of the army using the ultramarine rules. I'm doing exactly this with Guilliman now - he's gonna be bright pastel purple and he's gonna love it. I'm gonna keep his one shoulderpad Ultramarine blue as if he's "on loan" like the deathwatch, and obviously with the helmet option because OSHA would throw a fit otherwise
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Jul 18, 2020 20:44
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Post vaporwave Rowboat now!
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Jul 18, 2020 20:58
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BaronVanAwesome posted:I'm doing exactly this with Guilliman now - he's gonna be bright pastel purple and he's gonna love it. I mean who's gonna tell Guilliman his armor's the wrong color? He could show up painted like sailor moon and all the other marines will just pretend not to notice.
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Jul 18, 2020 21:00
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Big Blue is actually one of the special characters you can sort of justify being in different armour. He's not just in charge of the ultramarine, he's Lord commander of all forces.
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Jul 18, 2020 21:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:Just to be clear you know sisters got a rerelease right? If you dont like their current aesthetic thats fine, just making it clear. Yeah I do and I love the way Sisters in Power Armour look but I'm not really down with Penitent Engines, Repentia, Arco-Flagellants etc
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Jul 18, 2020 21:46
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Schadenboner posted:Did 9E maker stompas Oh goodness no. They're actually much worse. While the points change was honestly fairly benign overall (going up only 4%, which makes it effectively a points decrease compared to most units in the game) and the addition of blast to several of its weapons is helpful, it's now much harder to actually use a stompa in your list. First of all, the fact that points went up overall means that what you have left over after buying the stompa doesn't stretch as far as it previously did, so now the stompa is an even bigger millstone around your neck. Second, the change to detachments means that it's now even more painful to add the stompa into your army. In addition to paying the points cost, it also costs you 3 CP to take a super heavy auxiliary detachment. You can't even load him into a Supreme Command detachment anymore. This means that in a 2000 point game, a stompa is nearly half your points, costs you 3 CP, and you can't get kultur on it anymore. It really needs a complete data sheet ravamp in addition to a points change. Maybe when orks get a new codex they'll fix it.
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Jul 18, 2020 22:15
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should I give my cultists a flamer? also how many should I put in a single unit, the bare minimum or as many as possible?
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Jul 18, 2020 22:17
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JackMann posted:Oh goodness no. They're actually much worse. For having such an awesome kit I'm having trouble thinking of a time they were actually that good?
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Jul 18, 2020 22:45
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jng2058 posted:Given that, as far as I can tell, the supplemental codexes for Space Marines (Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc) were pretty popular, I think we'll see something like that for ALL the factions in the game. So the main Necron codex followed by specific Dynasty books, Guard codex and Regimental books, and so on. Yeah, the lack of any word on the new necron codex is kind of annoying and concerning. neaden posted:IIRC space Marines outsell everything else combined, so I wouldn't expect any Dynasty specific Codexes. I wonder if this would be as true if any other army got anywhere near the support that Marines got. They get the best rules and the most new models, so if course they are going to be the most popular.
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Jul 18, 2020 22:53
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a pale ghost posted:should I give my cultists a flamer? also how many should I put in a single unit, the bare minimum or as many as possible? I probably wouldn’t invest any more points into cultists than the minimum, since they exist to hold objectives and die (for chaos!). You should probably consider the two extremes: a 10-cultist unit for hiding behind terrain and holding objectives and a 30-cultist block to throw at things as a distraction. A large block is going to be vulnerable to Blast weapons but the morale losses are waaaaaaay lighter than 8th so they should still go a decent way. There’s also a better chance a large unit will live long enough for you to use the respawn strat. I wouldn’t go too heavy into cultists either way, but a couple units have their place.
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Jul 18, 2020 22:57
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