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Jerusalem posted:I thought Odyssey IS considered the best of the series? Certainly is by me. But I did not like earlier AC, so I suppose people who really did might regret the changes.
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Oct 14, 2020 12:55
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Fortunately Ghost of Tsushima came out and became old AssCreed but good
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Oct 14, 2020 12:59
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I've only really tried Black Flag and Syndicate of the "old" ACs, and while they were perfectly fine I prefer the newer RPG direction, especially now that Bioware is... well.
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Oct 14, 2020 13:04
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It depends. Syndicate is... fine but a bit joyless and when I tried to replay it I definitely gave up halfway through. The most interesting thing about it is that the main assassination missions are a bit Historical Hitman complete with map-specific ways to get kills, but they didn't want to commit to it. It's a game that very much reveals that the old version of AC gameplay was at the end of its rope and it was time to do something different. Origins and Odyssey have kept the AC name but I really struggle to conceptualise them as being part of the same game series. So much of the underlying dna comes from other places that it doesn't make sense to compare them. Brotherhood is the best game about being a an assassin. Black Flag has the strongest story. I'm not wholly negative about Odyssey, but once you've completed tutorial island you've basically seen all the game has to offer.
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Oct 14, 2020 13:06
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ilitarist posted:They said you could change gender at will. yeah but that's not the same thing as "let the animus choose"
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Oct 14, 2020 14:24
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I do think Odyssey was a little too big and unfocused. I don’t really mind a smaller map and less quests if things have a tighter focus overall
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Oct 14, 2020 14:35
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I picked up Unity on Steam for 5 bucks, and it's really fun so far. The only AC game I've played is Odyssey, and I am very much enjoying the social stealth and tighter parkour of Unity. Odyssey was fun and wacky, running around the Parthenon and stuff was neat, but the game felt pretty repetitive towards the end until the mythical creature bosses.
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Oct 14, 2020 15:03
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Jerusalem posted:I thought Odyssey IS considered the best of the series? People raved about it when it came out, and when I finally got to play it I was blown away by how good it was. I've seen some AC YouTubers as well as AC subreddit hating the game because it's not "true" AC game. First there are too many "non-historical" things in the game. And before you think it's about women not being in the kitchen it's more about mythological creatures and DLCs. Also 300 intro and in general battles not featuring phalanxes. That makes me wonder how people perceive historicity in media because Odyssey goes out of its way to portray historical freaking everything - city layouts, house furniture, clothes, songs etc - and you can see it all in discovery mode. Really Origins and Odyssey put to shame everything that came before with their attention to detail. Up to that point, you probably had some historical buildings and light specialization of city districts. In Origins historical complaints go into "Hebrew district of Alexandria doesn't have enough Hebrew signs" territory. The second problem AC fans seem to be having is RPG systems. As in you can't assassinate people without min-maxing. I guess it's a valid complaint cause previous protagonists of the series were all universal soldiers. In Odyssey you have to make a choice and on a higher level, you have to commit to specific tactics. I like it cause it makes gameplay choices feel more substantial than in many "true" RPGs like say Witcher 3 (no matter what build you're using in Witcher 3 you always roll, slash and cast an enemy-appropriate spell). The third problem I've heard talked about is that the map is huge and empty. I suppose if you are the kind of person who collected all the feathers in AC2 and animus fragments in later games you might lose your mind trying to complete every location in Odyssey. It's also connected to the fact that you can't just do the main quest, you'll be underleveled. I think this was a much bigger issue in Origins cause in that game you'd only get substantial XP rewards and challenge from quests designed for your specific level. Odyssey used level limitations for the gradual unraveling of its world and I like it. But I see the contradiction it put in people's minds: you can't just play the main quest, you have to explore. But if you want to explore then you'll see dozens of similar caves and forts with little narrative component. I got a lot of joy from just running around the world clearing out locations, doing minor or auto-generated quests after I've finished the game. So I guess the complaint comes from the fact that people who got bored of gameplay wanted to just complete the story and the game doesn't allow that. I remember reading that Valhalla won't have that problem, as in if you're playing just the main story you won't run into characters you just can't damage.
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Oct 14, 2020 15:37
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I feel pretty strongly that AC should never go beyond rpg-lite choices like in Witcher 3 or in the Batman/Mordor games. Let me specialise, give me choices of interesting perks, but all gameplay styles and mechanisms should always be open at the same time. There's no reason why in Odyssey your character can't be both extremely good at assassinating people and extremely good at kicking them off cliffs when the alarm is raised, that limit is only there to make the claim there's 'replay value'.
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Oct 14, 2020 15:48
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I'm really interested to see some co-op action the next time they do some viking chapters with gelman
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Oct 14, 2020 15:57
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Alchenar posted:I feel pretty strongly that AC should never go beyond rpg-lite choices like in Witcher 3 or in the Batman/Mordor games. Let me specialise, give me choices of interesting perks, but all gameplay styles and mechanisms should always be open at the same time. Note that in Odyssey you can respec at any point for a modest sum, upgrade any item and add different bonuses to it, change the way any item looks... It's still quite hard to make a character who would be equally deadly with bow, sword and assassination on a highest difficulty level but it's still possible. And if you don't minmax too much it's still quite easy to get a couple of assassination perks to be able to oneshot anyone apart from bosses while being great at close combat fighting. It's just you still have to get those couple of assassination perks and it makes people angry that good old blade to the throat suddenly stops working.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:08
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Alchenar posted:There's no reason why in Odyssey your character can't be both extremely good at assassinating people and extremely good at kicking them off cliffs when the alarm is raised, that limit is only there to make the claim there's 'replay value'. Yes, I disagree with you because I really like replay value. Ideally I'd like more character specialization than Odyssey offers, though quests worth replaying differently are more important.) ilitarist posted:Also 300 intro and in general battles not featuring phalanxes. That makes me wonder how people perceive historicity in media because Odyssey goes out of its way to portray historical freaking everything I hated the stupid fighting in the intro that went against the whole point of Thermopylae, ie blocking a narrow pass with your shield wall. But I loved the history in the rest of the game, letting us see Greek buildings with proper colours and so on, and the people (even though my idea of Socrates is very different).
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Oct 14, 2020 16:09
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I didn't even know there was a respec option until I died to medusa a couple times and when I saw how easy and cheap it was I was like NEAT
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Oct 14, 2020 16:11
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More statues needed to be painted drat it.  Also as much as I loved Odyssey it is still a crime we did not get a shield in the Greek game.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:13
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Oh dear me posted:(even though my idea of Socrates is very different). This is great because Socrates seems to me about perfect as a very smart, very smug rear end in a top hat who annoys everyone around him. It’s the “everyone knows but with a bit more depth” history channel version instead of the more nuanced scholars-agree-on version but for AC that’s probably pitched correctly.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:36
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ilitarist posted:Note that in Odyssey you can respec at any point for a modest sum, upgrade any item and add different bonuses to it, change the way any item looks... It's still quite hard to make a character who would be equally deadly with bow, sword and assassination on a highest difficulty level but it's still possible. And if you don't minmax too much it's still quite easy to get a couple of assassination perks to be able to oneshot anyone apart from bosses while being great at close combat fighting. It's just you still have to get those couple of assassination perks and it makes people angry that good old blade to the throat suddenly stops working. But that's my objection. The only impact the Odyssey skill system has is to be annoying if you don't spend ages min-maxing it. Either go the D&D route and give me a choice of fundamentally different gameplay styles, or go down the Witcher/Shadow route of giving me a well defined set of character skills that I can tweak with perks, but don't go down this middle of the road Ubisoft bland 'push button to make number go up so archery/stabbing/stealthy-stabbing is a viable way of getting through enemy hitpoints' solution. The current approach adds absolutely nothing to the game except the thin promise of replayability, which is a lie because a) you can respec at any point so it's all just game menu admin faff anyway and b) the whole game is just replaying tutorial island over and over and over again anyway.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:40
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I would never replay a game as big as Odyssey but I did respec a few times throughout to mix things up and that worked pretty well. Felt like I got a chance to try out most stuff but still had to make choices. some new footage about to drop it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IS6sw384M8 fuf fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 16:42
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Jerusalem posted:I thought Odyssey IS considered the best of the series? People raved about it when it came out, and when I finally got to play it I was blown away by how good it was. by who? it really depends who you ask. to a lot of purists it's "not a proper AC game" regardless of how fun it is as a video game personally I slightly prefer Origins mainly just because I like the world design better
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Oct 14, 2020 17:08
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As someone who skipped Origins & Odyssey and wasn't really thrilled by what I've seen so far of this game, the 7 minute trailer from today was quite impressive. It's a very pretty game at the least. If the reviews are good maybe Ill grab it after Demon's Souls & Miles Morales.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:41
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Megasabin posted:As someone who skipped Origins & Odyssey and wasn't really thrilled by what I've seen so far of this game, the 7 minute trailer from today was quite impressive. It's a very pretty game at the least. get origins and odyssey, both are pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVDvTi4JKks
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Oct 14, 2020 17:56
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The RPG elements go a long way to carrying them. Like the combat is fun but I love that now you can pick dialogue and options and stuff, way more fun and makes wandering around Greece to see what you can find a lot more engaging.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:38
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Eimi posted:More statues needed to be painted drat it. I don't care at all about having a shield on my character, but not having the option in the game at all is frankly baffling. In both of AC Odyssey's cultural touchstones--5th century Athens and Heroic Age/Homeric Greece--shields are a big deal. Ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς ("with it or on it") and all that.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:46
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Eimi posted:More statues needed to be painted drat it. That's the thing that I will also never shut up about yeah. I started a replay recently and I forgot that basically the first scene in the game is leonidas walking out with a big beautiful shield and then immediately hucking it at a persian before you take control. Valhalla looks to be rectifying this error at least, while also giving you the option to dual wield if you choose so I'm happy to see that. Looks like there's a decent amount of open world gently caress around activities, too, so that should be interesting; I've only been half following the press, but it looks like so far there's raiding, settlement building, fishing, drinking, mushroom trips into mythology land, and rap battles homullus posted:I don't care at all about having a shield on my character, but not having the option in the game at all is frankly baffling. In both of AC Odyssey's cultural touchstones--5th century Athens and Heroic Age/Homeric Greece--shields are a big deal. Ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς ("with it or on it") and all that. iirc I think they said they left shields out because they wanted to encourage a more aggressive playstyle? But that's dumb, because they could have changed literally nothing about the combat mechanics and just given you a shield and it would have worked exactly the same. There's already a parry mechanic, you can just make it use a shield instead of a weapon. Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 18:48
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Ainsley McTree posted:iirc I think they said they left shields out because they wanted to encourage a more aggressive playstyle? But that's dumb, because they could have changed literally nothing about the combat mechanics and just given you a shield and it would have worked exactly the same. There's already a parry mechanic, you can just make it use a shield instead of a weapon. there were shields in origins and the playstyle wasnt really "less aggressive" than in odyssey, and clearly shields will be used aggressively in valhalla as well. i agree the absence of shields was weird as hell for a game about classical greece
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Oct 14, 2020 19:04
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Dapper_Swindler posted:get origins and odyssey, both are pretty good. Seconding that advice and also, hooooly poo poo I'm so amped for this game now. Gonna excalibur all day every day.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:11
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Saxophone posted:Seconding that advice and also, hooooly poo poo I'm so amped for this game now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV244soVqRM&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryq_PKOE2Sc&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9SgqvMWD0I&feature=emb_title have some more previews.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:get origins and odyssey, both are pretty good. Wait wait wait wait wait I have I been totally oblivious to this point because I know the scene has been shown before, but is that Kassandra telling the player characters to go conquer England?
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Oct 14, 2020 19:23
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I'm broadly ambivalent about the switch to rpg mechanics, by Syndicate it was prettry clear that the old stuff was on its last legs (especially after they walked back the changes in Unity) and clearly needed a big change. Assassinations and headshots not being kills are probably the biggest problems with the new system. It just feels awful to sneak up behind someone or pull of a skillful shot and have it not pay off, and I can't think of any other game that does it where 'headshot' isn't a skill on cooldown.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:32
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JustaDamnFool posted:I'm broadly ambivalent about the switch to rpg mechanics, by Syndicate it was prettry clear that the old stuff was on its last legs (especially after they walked back the changes in Unity) and clearly needed a big change. It sounds like one-shot assassinations are at least back in this one (dunno about the headshots). I agree that having to grind up your assassination points to be able to assassinate people in a game called assassins creed was kind of a lame call, so good that they're rolling that back at least.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:41
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Alchenar posted:Wait wait wait wait wait I have I been totally oblivious to this point because I know the scene has been shown before, but is that Kassandra telling the player characters to go conquer England? It looks a lot like her, but it doesn't sound like her, so I'm going to go with no.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:49
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Alchenar posted:Either go the D&D route and give me a choice of fundamentally different gameplay styles, or go down the Witcher/Shadow route of giving me a well defined set of character skills that I can tweak with perks, but don't go down this middle of the road Ubisoft bland 'push button to make number go up so archery/stabbing/stealthy-stabbing is a viable way of getting through enemy hitpoints' solution. I don't quite get the criticism. There's no promise of replayability, your character choices only have some inertia as you have to spend some money to respec. You chose between ton of abilities and you can make some of them your main attacking force or situational helpers. But if you see the whole game as repeating the tutorial island I guess character development system doesn't have enough variety to change that basic gameplay loop.
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Oct 14, 2020 19:52
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ilitarist posted:I don't quite get the criticism. There's no promise of replayability, your character choices only have some inertia as you have to spend some money to respec. You chose between ton of abilities and you can make some of them your main attacking force or situational helpers. The criticism is: what does the game gain by making the ability to one-shot assassinate someone mutually exclusive with the ability to one-shot headshot them with a bow (as an illustrative example, I know you can technically spread your points to do this)? If nothing is being gained, why do it?
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Oct 14, 2020 19:59
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In Odyssey, I'd have gladly given up my stupid bow / left trigger for a shiny bronze shield that I could do timed blocks or parries or whatever with
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Oct 14, 2020 20:10
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Unlike a lot of RPGs Odyssey is pretty thin on the ground in terms of replayability or party mechanics, so separating different playstyles behind builds is this weird halfmeasure where there's no real meaningful build choices and you can be good at everything, it just involves the busy work of managing 3 separate inventories and switching between them. Vagabong fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 20:10
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Jerusalem posted:I thought Odyssey IS considered the best of the series? People raved about it when it came out, and when I finally got to play it I was blown away by how good it was. For me it was Black Flag just based on fun vs time spent. I like the direction of the new games though. Origins felt like a prototype but was still fun. Odyssey though to me felt like it had a veneer of a AAA game while underneath almost everything felt like it was unfinished in some way. From the story petering of to nothing, to the ships having troops be literal turrets that spin in place until boarding with no visible crew at all, to just about every building and non character NPC being copy/pasted. Don't get me wrong, it was still fun but the more time I spent with it, the more it felt like the scope was too ambitious for the resources they had so they took shortcuts. The voice actors really saved this game imo.
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Oct 14, 2020 20:19
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Trustworthy posted:In Odyssey, I'd have gladly given up my stupid bow / left trigger for a shiny bronze shield that I could do timed blocks or parries or whatever with Considering how heavily they leaned into the mythological hero aspect of Odyssey, I wouldn't have hated it if the shield were your ranged weapon and you could chuck it around like captain america
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Oct 14, 2020 20:20
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Ainsley McTree posted:It sounds like one-shot assassinations are at least back in this one (dunno about the headshots). You get quick-time events when you try to assassinate stronger enemies. It's easier if you are skilled assassin. Alchenar posted:The criticism is: what does the game gain by making the ability to one-shot assassinate someone mutually exclusive with the ability to one-shot headshot them with a bow (as an illustrative example, I know you can technically spread your points to do this)? You gain interesting challenge. You go adventuring knowing that you can't rely on your bow but can kill more people if you come close and personal. Thus some challenges that are easier for other kind of character are hard for you. You have to look for new ways to take on challenges. Your own unique set of abilities leads to a unique walkthrough of every encounter. I'm still puzzled by this question. Like why action games allow you to use just a couple of weapons instead of carrying every weapon? ilitarist fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 20:22
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I found the "can't oneshot everything with assassinate" was very quickly fixed by getting Rush Assassinate, probably the most broken skill ever put in a video game.
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Oct 14, 2020 20:23
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Jerusalem posted:I thought Odyssey IS considered the best of the series? People raved about it when it came out, and when I finally got to play it I was blown away by how good it was. Odyssey has okay moments but they're buried in a game that's a million hours long and mostly very boring The earlier games have their faults but at least they can be beaten in 10 to 20 hours. Like look at Rogue, there's only like 15 story missions so every one of them is cool or relevant. You can go real world weeks playing Odyssey without finding a memorable quest
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Oct 14, 2020 20:26
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Ainsley McTree posted:Considering how heavily they leaned into the mythological hero aspect of Odyssey, I wouldn't have hated it if the shield were your ranged weapon and you could chuck it around like captain america Rygar was ahead of its time. The Diskarmor should be in more games.
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Oct 14, 2020 20:27
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