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I thought California's American Independent party had agreed to change their name so that new voters don't have to scratch their head when figuring out the "no party preference" option when registering to vote
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Oct 15, 2020 21:09
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Bodhidharma posted:I found a good article that outlines some of the strongest arguments in favor and in opposition to Prop 25. A lot of this has been echoed in the thread already, but it's still a good read. This is a great article that's very well balanced. There's good reason for the opposition to the bill, absolutely. That said, these parts really jumped out at me: Further complicating matters is a California Supreme Court case that could invalidate cash bail statewide. The case centers around retired shipyard worker Kenneth Humphrey, whose $350,000 bail on a charge of robbing an elderly neighbor of $7 led to a landmark appellate court ruling that requires judges to consider a person’s ability to pay when setting bail. While the high court has yet to review the case it agreed to hear more than two years ago, it recently ordered in the interim that judges should consider a defendant’s financial status and avoid keeping people in jail because they cannot afford bail. The court could be awaiting the outcome of the referendum, as the case would be moot if SB 10 takes effect. and "Assemblymember Rob Bonta, a Democrat from Alameda who co-wrote SB 10, said the opposition from progressives has been “ironic and perplexing.” “We can make improvements. If Prop. 25 passes we can address the issues that have been raised by the left. We can root out biases in the risk assessment tool. We can even restrict the role of judges. We can’t do that if it fails because there is law that says if a referendum fails then the Legislature cannot pass anything that is essentially the same,” Bonta said, adding that the opposition is “looking for something that is better, but arguably, we’d be barred from doing that as a Legislature.” Lewis from the Anti-Recidivism Coalition shares Bonta’s concern. “Constitutionally, we won’t be able to end cash bail,” he said. Lewis also worries the Legislature could lose the political will to enact any additional reforms. “The elected officers who have supported so many criminal justice reforms in the past will take this as a message from the people of California that we’ve gone too far,” he said."
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Oct 15, 2020 21:11
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:
San Francisco generates such awful politicians.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:16
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https://twitter.com/_uncoolniece/status/1316831951689453569?s=20
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Oct 15, 2020 21:20
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Kenning posted:San Francisco generates such awful politicians. yeah. 
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Oct 15, 2020 21:39
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Does anyone know the exact restrictions on passing legislation after a referendum succeeds in vetoing it?
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Oct 15, 2020 21:55
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Glass of Milk posted:This is a great article that's very well balanced. There's good reason for the opposition to the bill, absolutely. That said, these parts really jumped out at me: The complaint is that they can't pass the exact same bill by legislature. We don't want them to. We want them to pass something better. The takeaway from it failing means you should attempt to improve it.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:00
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Jaxyon posted:The complaint is that they can't pass the exact same bill by legislature. Problem is, you're assuming that this message will be the takeaway if Prop 25 loses. That's by no means guaranteed.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:02
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Jaxyon posted:The complaint is that they can't pass the exact same bill by legislature. It's always a crap shoot when you expect people to learn specific lessons from election results. I mean, look at what the Democrats "learned" after 2016.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:03
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Problem is, you're assuming that this message will be the takeaway if Prop 25 loses. That's by no means guaranteed. Messages are made, not taken. Of course, having a shitload of cash helps.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:07
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I mean, either way you're hoping for the legislature to do something on the heels of this vote. If 25 passes then you're hoping they amend/fix the bill's very real issues with minimal lag time, which is not a guarantee and in fact assumes the law was not intentionally written to preserve a racist incarceration system under the guise of reform. If it doesn't pass then you're hoping the takeaway is "we need to do better on our next attempt", not "welp the people have spoken and they like the current cash bail system" and the death of further reform attempts for the foreseeable future.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:11
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Jaxyon posted:The kind that specifically focuses on specific justice issues, like 25 and Measure J. If they were limiting their ballot endorsement to prison and inmate issues, fine, but they endorse Prop 15 and Prop 21, which are rent control and property tax measures. You can't seriously be a proponent of prison reform issues and not factory in economic justice and poverty. The only reason to be for Prop 22 is because you are getting a slice of the nearly 200 million being spent on enacting it. I can't even think of a reason to be silent on it except for a conflict of interests.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:36
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Kenning posted:San Francisco generates such awful politicians. Leland Yee comes to mind. 
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Oct 15, 2020 22:41
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Sydin posted:I mean, either way you're hoping for the legislature to do something on the heels of this vote. If 25 passes then you're hoping they amend/fix the bill's very real issues with minimal lag time, which is not a guarantee and in fact assumes the law was not intentionally written to preserve a racist incarceration system under the guise of reform. If it doesn't pass then you're hoping the takeaway is "we need to do better on our next attempt", not "welp the people have spoken and they like the current cash bail system" and the death of further reform attempts for the foreseeable future. If it passes, you're actually waiting for the state Judicial Council to study/fix issues. It's written as a thing where the Judicial Council is supposed to come up with the actual algorithm details consistent with some broad goals in the bill + some reports they're required to generate to the legislature. Judicial Council might still suck because it's mostly old white judges again, but it'll be bureaucracy suck instead of politician suck.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:04
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Ah fair enough, appreciate the clarification. 
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Oct 15, 2020 23:14
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Marketing New Brain posted:If they were limiting their ballot endorsement to prison and inmate issues, fine, but they endorse Prop 15 and Prop 21, which are rent control and property tax measures. You can't seriously be a proponent of prison reform issues and not factory in economic justice and poverty. Oh yeah dude Justice LA is big supporters of Lyft and Uber  Why aren't they also talking about 16? Clearly they are racist. Also the BLM LA voter guide doesn't cover Prop 19 because they're in the pocket of the Realtors, you see.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:20
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BeAuMaN posted:This tracks. I think you'll find that Leland Yee is actually loving rad as hell.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:27
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Foxfire_ posted:If it passes, you're actually waiting for the state Judicial Council to study/fix issues. It's written as a thing where the Judicial Council is supposed to come up with the actual algorithm details consistent with some broad goals in the bill + some reports they're required to generate to the legislature. Judicial Council might still suck because it's mostly old white judges again, but it'll be bureaucracy suck instead of politician suck. This is one of the nuances I learned about from the JusticeLA video that Jaxyon posted earlier. One of the panelists is with Human Rights Watch and has been a public defender for decades, and he made the point that one of the biggest reasons cash bail is a problem is upstream from the bail industry itself -- prosecutors & judges are the ones that request and use discretion"to set bail, with the implicit rationale that it results in faster guilty pleas and lets the judiciary get through their court calendar faster. If 25 passes, prosecutors and judges will have even more discretion over pre-trial incarceration and just as much incentive to keep incarceration levels at the same rate, to get guilty pleas faster, to work through more cases, and so on. And while it may weaken the bail industry (although the HRW guy was skeptical of that given the industry's pivot towards pretrial surveillance and its ties to the broader financial industry -- I'm not equipped to assess this with any rigor, so I'm left taking it at face value) it will also expand the market for algorithm vendors which is its own type of predatory/unjust industry and also increase funding for probation officers to oversee pretrial supervision (i.e. more money for cops) Note - I am far from an expert in this area and may be getting some of the details wrong, if so please correct me!
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Oct 15, 2020 23:31
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Jaxyon posted:Oh yeah dude Justice LA is big supporters of Lyft and Uber Yeah I'm a paranoid lunatic throwing out conspiracy theories, not someone legitimately concerned at the amount of astro turfing that is clearly going on this election. If you have no defense for them not supporting No on 22, just say so. It's hardly my fault organizations like the NAACP California have been openly bought by Lyft and Uber and there is so much money sloshing around I am skeptical of new organizations that just so happen to be aligning with the monied industries in California pushing ballot measures. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 23:49
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Marketing New Brain posted:Yeah I'm a paranoid lunatic throwing out conspiracy theories, not someone legitimately concerned at the amount of astro turfing that is clearly going on this election. If you have no defense for them not supporting No on 22, just say so, no need to divert attention to ballot initiatives people genuinely can't seem to agree on. You may not be a lunatic, but saying an organization I'm betting you've never even heard of until I brought it up is bought by ride-shares even though they only have an official position on like half the ballot is pretty weird dude.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:56
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fermun posted:When Massachusetts got rid of rent control to gently caress over Boston, rents went up drastically (even on non-rent-controlled units!), evictions skyrocketed, and development didn't increase. But surely we can try the same experiment again but this time in California! This was interesting so I went paper hunting this is the most extensive one I've been able to find. It's Elseiver though, so you would need a library subscription or some sort of paper hub to get at it. It's using census data to look at differences between never controlled units and units that went out of rent control. Also lots of math. His conclusions have Boston rent decontrol: - Not increasing building - Increasing rents (duh) - Lots of owner-occupied/non-rental units changing into rentals - No change to functional maintenance (heat, water, electricity) - Improvement in nonfunctional maintenance (paint, holes in walls, etc...) Sharks Eat Bear posted:This is one of the nuances I learned about from the JusticeLA video that Jaxyon posted earlier. One of the panelists is with Human Rights Watch and has been a public defender for decades, and he made the point that one of the biggest reasons cash bail is a problem is upstream from the bail industry itself -- prosecutors & judges are the ones that request and use discretion"to set bail, with the implicit rationale that it results in faster guilty pleas and lets the judiciary get through their court calendar faster. I do think judges use bail to clear their dockets. Somewhat hopeful that policy set bureaucratically at a 10000ft level will be less prone to that an individual judge looking at their own schedule. One of the problems with risk-assessment things that I think is true is that judges will accept the 'detain' recommendations and overrule the 'release' ones if they have discretion. For for-profit algorithms, of the widespread existing ones, there's one secret proprietary used in a couple counties (COMPAS) and the rest are all simple charts I think. I posted VPRAI-R's chart a couple pages back (it's racist in that it's triggering off of previous convictions & stuff like that, but isn't opaque about it)  is CA usage as of 2007 (with terrible colors) Expanded probation I am torn about. On one hand, expanded police is bad, but on the other hand something like having weekly check in with a parole officer is better than paying $2500 to a bail bond place to satisfy a $25k bail for a drug selling charge.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:07
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Kenning posted:I think you'll find that Leland Yee is actually loving rad as hell. Edit: The best part was he was arranging sales for a group called MILF. BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 00:31
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lmao thinking that California non-profits or "activist" groups are likely to be corrupt as hell is not at all an unreasonable assumption to make, and I say that as someone who has worked in and around that sector. There are plenty that I would not piss on if they were on fire unless I had developed the capacity to urinate kerosene. Being extremely skeptical of non-profit groups is absolutely a logical stance to take in a state where people like Michael Weinstein are powerful players.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:38
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Hail Satan
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Oct 16, 2020 01:48
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Sharks Eat Bear posted:This is one of the nuances I learned about from the JusticeLA video that Jaxyon posted earlier. One of the panelists is with Human Rights Watch and has been a public defender for decades, and he made the point that one of the biggest reasons cash bail is a problem is upstream from the bail industry itself -- prosecutors & judges are the ones that request and use discretion"to set bail, with the implicit rationale that it results in faster guilty pleas and lets the judiciary get through their court calendar faster. One thing I would love to see is the breakdown of percentage of misdemeanors versus felonies in CA, because under the prop, almost all people charged with misdemeanors MUST be released within 12 hours. Looking at something like: http://www.lacourt.org/division/criminal/pdf/misd.pdf, it's easy to see there are lots of misdemeanors that have pretty exorbitant bail numbers. And with cash bail, I think judges have the ability to set bail even higher, which exacerbates the problem that is trying to be solved.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:49
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Kenning posted:I think you'll find that Leland Yee is actually loving rad as hell. he has the coveted MILF vote
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Oct 16, 2020 01:56
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BeAuMaN posted:I mean in a kind of Scarface sense, yeah, he's pretty badass. He got out of prison this year afaik. The first thing I thought after reading the affidavit was: Wow, this should absolutely be a Michael Mann movie.
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Oct 16, 2020 02:26
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Weird, Wiener forgot to weigh in on Proposition 21 for some reason! https://twitter.com/Scott_Wiener/status/1316902637292474382
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Oct 16, 2020 03:10
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Vox Nihili posted:Weird, Wiener forgot to weigh in on Proposition 21 for some reason! I’m sure the chair of the Housing committee who lists housing first on his issue list just forgot about the measure on *checks notes* rent control
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Oct 16, 2020 03:18
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When I call myself a housing advocate, I mean I’m an advocate for people with houses.
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Oct 16, 2020 03:19
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gently caress scott weiner, that brain damaged lich king can eat my entire rear end
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Oct 16, 2020 03:22
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lol everything is so stupid
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Oct 16, 2020 03:24
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Centrist Committee posted:lol everything is so stupid 
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Oct 16, 2020 03:26
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....its almost as though America is and always has been a plutocratic poo poo hole of a country!!!!!
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Oct 16, 2020 04:07
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That tweet is almost parody.
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Oct 16, 2020 04:27
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Kenning posted:San Francisco generates such awful politicians. I'm just waiting for London Breed to take DiFi's seat. What the gently caress is it with SF and mayors
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Oct 16, 2020 05:02
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Is there a clear successor ready to go if Harris vacates her seat for VP? Or is it not apparent? I feel like my understanding of California politics is it’s perennial rising stars who everyone immediately sours on the second they actually get anywhere.
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Oct 16, 2020 05:31
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Lead Pipe Cinch posted:Is there a clear successor ready to go if Harris vacates her seat for VP? Or is it not apparent? I feel like my understanding of California politics is it’s perennial rising stars who everyone immediately sours on the second they actually get anywhere. Me, I'd love to see Katie Porter in that seat, but seems like a long shot.
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Oct 16, 2020 05:40
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I still say it'll be Kevin de León in a backroom deal he got as payback for not campaigning against Feinstein.
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Oct 16, 2020 05:46
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Watch it be Scott Weiner
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Oct 16, 2020 05:48
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