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Taintrunner posted:the thing about contra and all the other “breadtubers” pissing and moaning at you to vote for Biden is that they enjoy a rather comfortable grift screeching into a webcam for a living while you and your family starve and have no future beyond periods of extended instability and hardship. they want Biden to win to defend the legitimacy of their class position as part of the leisure class in a brutally unjust and frankly unsustainable society racing towards full collapse. This is an excellent post and I wanna nail it to virtualboy's loving door. What is capitalism? It's crab buckets all the way down... Snype Edit: The breadtubers are about as effective and interested in ending capitalism as the dude selling the che-guevara shirts is...
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Oct 28, 2020 04:27
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While I did not vote for Biden this election, I can see there being some argument for voting for Dems, even if they are of the do nothing type, over opposing candidates like Donald Trump. The issue is that when liberals typically have this discussion, it is mostly in the context that ContraPoints puts out. That leftists who won't vote for Biden are just 22 year old extremely online incels. There are a fair amount of Americans on the Left who will not be voting for Biden, even more who are "apolitical". Not wanting to vote for Biden isn't just something idealistic baby leftists do. It's sad because ContraPoints does have good points in the video but they get mushed out due to her oversimplifying the critics arguments.
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Oct 28, 2020 04:30
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punk rebel ecks posted:While I did not vote for Biden this election, I can see there being some argument for voting for Dems, even if they are of the do nothing type, over opposing candidates like Donald Trump. The issue is that when liberals typically have this discussion, it is mostly in the context that ContraPoints puts out. That leftists who won't vote for Biden are just 22 year old extremely online incels. There are a fair amount of Americans on the Left who will not be voting for Biden, even more who are "apolitical". Not wanting to vote for Biden isn't just something idealistic baby leftists do. It's sad because ContraPoints does have good points in the video but they get mushed out due to her oversimplifying the critics arguments. I find the value of these "arguments" to be extremely debatable, I've already pointed out a couple of reasons why a democratic president in the same situation would actually be worse for a lot of people (looking beyond the US here). Furthermore we'd instantaneously lose the somewhat antagonistic press coverage as things snap back to the new "normal" and we'd get Obama era-coverage that is completely in lock-step with the administration. This includes the Corona response, which I will 100% assure you will not change under Biden. On top of that we might get a new and exciting forever war to distract from the internal malaise and the fact that the Dems are also doing nothing about it. Biden will also do nothing about policing, or the extremely lovely lot of black people in the US. In his own words he wrote the drat bill! Also his VP is a loving cop.... How is that better? VomitOnLino has issued a correction as of 04:36 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 04:33
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The thing that really struck me was when she said that if Biden wins outright and Trump refuses to leave, the military are just going to force him out. I seriously thought that would be followed by "nah just kidding". But nope, complete sincerity.
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Oct 28, 2020 06:50
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qsvui posted:The thing that really struck me was when she said that if Biden wins outright and Trump refuses to leave, the military are just going to force him out. I seriously thought that would be followed by "nah just kidding". But nope, complete sincerity. The military doesn't like trump, so they would. Biden means more war
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Oct 28, 2020 06:53
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qsvui posted:The thing that really struck me was when she said that if Biden wins outright and Trump refuses to leave, the military are just going to force him out. I seriously thought that would be followed by "nah just kidding". But nope, complete sincerity. yeah that seemed off to say the least
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Oct 28, 2020 06:54
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miniscule12 posted:The military doesn't like trump, so they would. Yeah right now the federal govt is entirely occupied with purging preTrump personnel, purging "critical race theory", and purging "Chinese influence" lmao, nothing works right including the war machine
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Oct 28, 2020 06:55
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aw hell yeah, alt accounts in the Trustafarian Thread for Unaccomplished Masters and Fruitless Debates 
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Oct 28, 2020 06:56
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to all the people making GBS threads on philosophy tube, i’ll have you know that were it not for him i’d never have realized that steve bannon bad
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Oct 28, 2020 07:19
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Honestly most of my problem with leftist youtube in general is the 'react' format- coming up with hours of content is for the most part the way to make money making youtube videos but it's such a meh kind of format- media discussing media doesn't really do much(figures like tim pool are much worse, of course) but i think it's why it's hard to watch the vaush and sam seder, serfs, etc. Media talking about media is incredibly uninteresting. I find the contrapoints/philosophy tube format to be a bit better- well produced videos on certain subjects. I don't agree with all the takes, but they're much more watchable. Yeah, obviously they think voting is better than not voting, but i don't really ascribe moral intent to tactical issues. I don't think one can meaningfully change the system by voting in the current presidential election but i also don't think your non-vote will make any kind of statement that isn't just personal grandstanding. If not voting was such a powerful statement, there would be much more noting of the US's low turnout.
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Oct 28, 2020 11:58
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Breadtube makes you stupid.
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Oct 28, 2020 12:06
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Taintrunner posted:the thing about contra and all the other “breadtubers” pissing and moaning at you to vote for Biden is that they enjoy a rather comfortable grift screeching into a webcam for a living while you and your family starve and have no future beyond periods of extended instability and hardship. they want Biden to win to defend the legitimacy of their class position as part of the leisure class in a brutally unjust and frankly unsustainable society racing towards full collapse. I'm gonna touch the poop here: How is this argument any different from anytime one of the podcast faves (Insert here: Chapo, True Anon, Cum Town, etc etc) gets told off and at some point the argument usually involves "Why give your money to those people who just spout nonsense online when you could donate to (Gofundmes or whatever podcast I like more)" ?
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Oct 28, 2020 12:25
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Kunster posted:I'm gonna touch the poop here: How is this argument any different from anytime one of the podcast faves (Insert here: Chapo, True Anon, Cum Town, etc etc) gets told off and at some point the argument usually involves "Why give your money to those people who just spout nonsense online when you could donate to (Gofundmes or whatever podcast I like more)" ? podcasts are bad too stop giving money to rich kids with the time to become new media darlings and start using your resources to build power in your own communities but at least chapo etc have the dignity not to sheepdog you into voting for the boot on your neck, unlike citations needed which is crying “harm reduction” Taintrunner has issued a correction as of 12:38 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 12:33
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While they directly stated that no, they won't pass a moral judgement on you voting or not, they still did spend a while portraying Biden as the choice for the normie and how most of the arguments against him just don't work and well, making the Bidens' kind of endearing. Which is becoming a kind of contention figure between TA and CTH at least.
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Oct 28, 2020 12:52
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okay then gently caress them then I guess “normies” doesn’t include the millions of people slaughtered in Iraq was a result of the war Biden championed then, or the “normies” in Latin America who would suffer under the fascist coups Biden has backed and has pledged to continue to back if elected weird how “normies” is comfortable middle class white Americans and everyone else can go piss off and get murdered
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Oct 28, 2020 12:55
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I was gonna say that... Yes. The concept of "a normal person" is kind of hosed up since you can just apply that to an "every man" that can be as uninformed and cruel and a reason why you shouldn't endorse whatever cause. And that can go both ways, with "Well too many people want UHC, so why should a left movement even want that, it would sound too wimpy" becoming a thing these days.
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Oct 28, 2020 13:05
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Kunster posted:I was gonna say that... Yes. The concept of "a normal person" is kind of hosed up since you can just apply that to an "every man" that can be as uninformed and cruel and a reason why you shouldn't endorse whatever cause. And that can go both ways, with "Well too many people want UHC, so why should a left movement even want that, it would sound too wimpy" becoming a thing these days. this is my issue with “online” leftists and a good example of why leftist movements fail. leftist war with themselves instead working together (hence the “splitters” Life of Brian references earlier in the thread)
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Oct 28, 2020 14:45
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splitting in good, actually
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Oct 28, 2020 14:47
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:this is my issue with “online” leftists and a good example of why leftist movements fail. leftist war with themselves instead working together (hence the “splitters” Life of Brian references earlier in the thread) "leftists" working with warmongering liberal rapists like biden, instead of the leftists abroad in places like Latin America which biden actively supported fascist coups inand has pledged to support fascist coups in, are the people you should be actually mad at here. but they're not white and they live far away so too bad so sad, it seems.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:49
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Taintrunner posted:"leftists" working with warmongering liberal rapists like biden, instead of the leftists abroad in places like Latin America which biden actively supported fascist coups inand has pledged to support fascist coups in, are the people you should be actually mad at here. why would it be better if trump were to win then?
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Oct 28, 2020 14:55
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:why would it be better if trump were to win then? i love the notion that donald trump drone strikes and military action is non-lethal somehow because he manages to keep it off the news(more appropriately, the media doesn't care about donald trump's imperialist policies)
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Oct 28, 2020 14:59
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will biden end or curtail the strikes?
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Oct 28, 2020 15:04
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:why would it be better if trump were to win then? Obama/Biden is 3 for 3 in successful fascist coups abroad. Trump is 0-2.
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Oct 28, 2020 15:05
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Panzeh posted:i love the notion that donald trump drone strikes and military action is non-lethal somehow because he manages to keep it off the news(more appropriately, the media doesn't care about donald trump's imperialist policies) Biden supports that same imperialism and will be just as effective as it was under Obama. Just imagine, a dozen Bolsonaros ripping apart Latin America all for Wall Street's profit. Taintrunner has issued a correction as of 15:10 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 15:06
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Taintrunner posted:Obama/Biden is 3 for 3 in successful fascist coups abroad. depending, could be 1 for 3 with America being a local coup but I think that’s pretty much the best argument I’ve seen
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Oct 28, 2020 15:11
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:depending, could be 1 for 3 with America being a local coup American elections are decided by electoral college. Hillary Clinton burned over a billion dollars running the worst campaign of all time and the responsibility was solely on her by running a campaign made up of upper middle class metropolitan professionals, solely for upper middle class mostly-white metropolitan professionals. Trump's victory was no "coup" in any sense of the term.
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Oct 28, 2020 15:14
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Gaupo Guacho posted:"fascism" doesn't mean whatever you don't like. the neocons were blood drenched psychopaths responsible for all kinds of misery but that doesn't mean they're fascist. fascism is a ultra nationalist mass movement based on things like spiritual renewal of a nation, the targeting of outgroup minorities and redressing feelings of national humiliation. Biden is a murderer for his Iraq war vote but hes not a fascist, hes just a rightwing lib. Biden's biggest career accomplishments are the crime bill, whipping support for the Iraq War, and being the condom the finance industry puts on when it fucks us all in the rear end.
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Oct 28, 2020 15:17
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Taintrunner posted:American elections are decided by electoral college. Hillary Clinton burned over a billion dollars running the worst campaign of all time and the responsibility was solely on her by running a campaign made up of upper middle class metropolitan professionals, solely for upper middle class mostly-white metropolitan professionals. I don’t believe I mentioned 2016 but to be clear I do not believe the results of the 2016 election were a coup. 2020 could be depending on how things go between trump and SCOTUS
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Oct 28, 2020 15:21
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Taintrunner posted:Obama/Biden is 3 for 3 in successful fascist coups abroad. I think if you think the CIA is a deep state organ, the success rate has more to do with the CIA than trump- as far as presidents are concerned, the attempts are more important than the success rate. If you think the failures are because trump demoralized the CIA or something like that, I think that's taking MSNBC at face value way too much. I think coup failures are a good thing, but i ascribe them more to much more effective and organized opposition within the countries themselves as well as the CIA's poor choice of partners and method rather than Trump. Where trump is worse, I think, is on sanctions which is something he does have control over, and sanctions are an incredibly brutal part of imperial policy by the US. For example, his strengthening of sanctions on Cuba and Iran is a bad thing. That being said, Biden is probably not going to reduce the sanctions that trump brought into place. What this means is that the US presidential election isn't a referendum on imperial policy, so I don't think it's that useful to discuss it in those terms. This is not an endorsement of voting one way or the other- i really don't know myself and count myself fortunate that I am disenfranchised by the US electoral college system. It also means I don't really care that much if youtubers think voting for biden is going to make things better, because i'm not sure about that, either.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:03
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I don’t believe I mentioned 2016 but to be clear I do not believe the results of the 2016 election were a coup. Oh but the Democrats already made it clear in 2000 that SCOTUS can decide the election.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:15
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saying "if you think the CIA is a deep state organ" is like saying "if you think an apple is a fruit"
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Oct 28, 2020 16:25
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Panzeh posted:It also means I don't really care that much if youtubers think voting for biden is going to make things better, because i'm not sure about that, either. it’s going to make some things marginally to somewhat better for some people, and other things a lot worse for other people. it’s just that the people it will make things worse for are foreigners so they count for less in the “harm reduction” formula e: it’s basically casting this tweet, unironically, as praxis https://mobile.twitter.com/AngryBlackLady/status/753942558112227328 indigi has issued a correction as of 18:42 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 18:39
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indigi posted:it’s going to make some things marginally to somewhat better for some people, and other things a lot worse for other people. it’s just that the people it will make things worse for are foreigners so they count for less in the “harm reduction” formula https://mobile.twitter.com/AngryBlackLady/status/1321457064946794497
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Oct 28, 2020 19:11
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:why would it be better if trump were to win then? it's been extremely clear from the attitudes of obama-era white house staff that the primary reason they oppose a trump presidency is because trump is worse at imperialism than they were https://twitter.com/brhodes/status/1318180765000060928 going off of obama's track record of awful foreign intervention as compared with trump, trump is clearly the "lesser evil" here that liberals keep bitching about
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Oct 28, 2020 19:28
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Halloween Jack posted:The actual definition of fascism is imperial methods of control applied to the imperial center, to save capitalism from demands for equality and its own inherent instability. This is also correct, but Dimitrov completely nailed the definition of fascism: quote:"Fascism is not a form of state power "standing above both classes -- the proletariat and the bourgeoisie," as Otto Bauer, for instance, has asserted. It is not "the revolt of the petty bourgeoisie which has captured the machinery of the state," as the British Socialist Brailsford declares. No, fascism is not a power standing above class, nor government of the petty bourgeoisie or the lumpen-proletariat over finance capital. Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.... The development of fascism, and the fascist dictatorship itself, assume different forms in different countries, according to historical, social and economic conditions and to the national peculiarities, and the international position of the given country."
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Oct 28, 2020 20:40
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edit: bad reply
ded redd has issued a correction as of 23:14 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 23:11
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bad optics on this reply indigi has issued a correction as of 23:17 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 23:12
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indigi posted:bad optics on this reply edit: nevermind, figured it out
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Oct 28, 2020 23:13
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Thread title change not including the 'unironically' is wierd and significantly less funny than it would be including the 'unironically' do you not realise how nerdy that word is, mods lying to post worse
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Oct 28, 2020 23:50
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Ross DaouThot posted:to all the people making GBS threads on philosophy tube, i’ll have you know that were it not for him i’d never have realized that steve bannon bad I just like having basic concepts explained to me over the course of two hours by a nerd who was like "my aesthetic? I'm Doughy Lucifer, baby"
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Oct 29, 2020 00:28
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