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Arcsquad12 posted:I mean we can make Juan "Johnny" Rico into a white fascist boy scout and that turned out better than the original book, anything is possible. I don't think Starship Troopers is a relevant comparison since it's deliberately trying to be a satire of the book rather than an adaption. But even if it wasn't Argentina is literally filled with white people, some descended from exiled Fascists. Not everyone south of the Rio Grande is caricature of Speedy Gonzales. Hell it was filled with Germans even before WW2. The movie about the insidiousness of fascism having the character possibly be from a family of escaped Nazi's is on-point.
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Oct 18, 2020 20:14
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How would people feel about race-blind casting in a Tolkien production? You can't remove the focus on different races and bloodlines that pervades everything, but I don't think you need to keep the racial coding specifically. You might want to keep certain groups (hobbits and rohirrim come to mind) as homogenous english-looking people but for say, the Noldor or the Numenoreans or even Gondor and Harad I'm not going to complain if they contain people from all races. Fëanor and his sons can be black. I wouldn't give a poo poo and I don't think it would change Tolkien's story. Hell, I'm in favour of race-blind casting for loving Regency productions, especially after seeing some of the cast photos for Shondaland's Bridgerton series! But yeah, sure, why not? I was tempted for a minute to suggest casting white people as orcs and everyone else as everyone else, but it'd be deplorables all over again. The racist assholes would be thrilled to have them to identify with.
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Oct 18, 2020 20:38
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There are black and Asian Asgardians in the marvel movies and no one cares
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Oct 18, 2020 21:12
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euphronius posted:There are black and Asian Asgardians in the marvel movies and no one cares i think that there were quite a few meltdowns about it
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Oct 18, 2020 21:51
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Stargate grey alien Asgardians are the only ones I recognize.
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Oct 18, 2020 22:01
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ChubbyChecker posted:i think that there were quite a few meltdowns about it There 100% were lovely nerds losing their minds about Idris Elba's casting ~how can you caaast a blaaack guy as Heimdaaall aaaargh~ How anyone can complain about Elba being cast in anything is beyond me, but racists are appallingly and fundamentally stupid, so...
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Oct 18, 2020 22:04
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I think the lesson to be learned is that there will always be angry nerds at first but eventually most people will forget that anyone was angry and everyone just accepts the “controversial” thing as canon.
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Oct 18, 2020 22:13
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Marvel's version of Thor/Asgard also has a long history of Sci-Fi Ancient Aliens going back to the original Jack Kirby days in the 1960's (Jack Kirby loving loved Ancient Aliens). With Non-European Asgardians like Hogun the Grim being there from the start. While later authors/artists over the years have leaned more on the side of them being magical divinities more closely aligned with actual mythology, it remains a fact that Asgard being multiracial techno-vikings from space is marrow-deep in the Marvel version of Thor. And it shows how much of their complaints that Heimdall being black was "Hollywood propaganda" was a dog-whistle, since anyone whose actually read Thor comics knows otherwise.
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Oct 18, 2020 22:36
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WoodrowSkillson posted:i will come down like a ton of bricks on it if its some gross GoT rape trash. Catching up to the thread but search your feelings for the truth lol
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Oct 18, 2020 23:51
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perc2 posted:It's not the book, much in the same way contemporary editions of The Bible probably look "nothing like" the original texts or oral tradition. As an aside, this is a poor analogy; the textual sources for the Bible (whatever you think of its actual truth content) are numerous and early, compared to most other ancient texts.
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Oct 19, 2020 04:46
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I was idly skimming "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft today. It was an ok overview of Tolkien's worldview from a Catholic perspective. It did have this amusing paragraph:quote:And his philosophy could not possibly be excluded from his life’s work. Like religion, sex, age, and race, philosophy permeates everything we do. A Hindu would have written a very different Lord of the Rings than a Catholic. A woman would have written a different Lord of the Rings than a man. A teenager would have written a different Lord of the Rings than an adult. An Italian would have written a very different Lord of the Rings than an Englishman. And it is equally certain that a Marxist, a Cartesian rationalist, a Hegelian Idealist, a Nietzschean nihilist, or (God help us!) a Derridadaist deconstructionist would have written a very different Lord of the Rings than Tolkien did. This part is great, but now I'm sad that LOTR by Nietzsche doesn't exist. I want to read it. 
William Bear fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 00:29
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italian lord of the rings would just be about pizza instead of the ring
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Oct 20, 2020 04:43
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:As an aside, this is a poor analogy; the textual sources for the Bible (whatever you think of its actual truth content) are numerous and early, compared to most other ancient texts. You're an ancient text
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Oct 20, 2020 09:09
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il silmarillione
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Oct 20, 2020 09:54
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Runcible Cat posted:There 100% were lovely nerds losing their minds about Idris Elba's casting ~how can you caaast a blaaack guy as Heimdaaall aaaargh~ And another person said, "And sometimes they called a tall man "Snorri the Short."" I think raceblind casting would lose nothing and gain much, although you'd want to keep people in the various relation groups with similar appearances.
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Oct 20, 2020 10:09
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Nessus posted:I saw one person say "But in the myths they call him Heimdall the White!" No, if you're gonna break these chains then you gotta SHATTER them.
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Oct 20, 2020 14:33
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https://twitter.com/bendyscientist/status/1318670464923914241?s=21
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Oct 21, 2020 00:55
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That's rad. As we all know, the main types of rock are igneous, metamorphic, sedimentary, and Wrought, yea, by the Valar
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Oct 21, 2020 01:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
Orcs are easy to fix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9AJeakCa6w They don't sound that evil, do they?
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Oct 21, 2020 20:45
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This might have been posted here before but I just found it, a 1964 interview with Tolkien: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzDtmMXJ1B4
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Nov 7, 2020 16:58
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God drat, so much there - Tolkien is almost impossible to decode, he's so prone to slurring and overrunning himself. It's how I talk, which pisses me off - This interviewer is super well informed on all the subject matter — he's able to "obviously" switch between a specific cultural and broader linguistic concept of "feudalism" and they're both like "oh well of COURSE duhhh" -- and I can just imagine trying to interview Tolkien and not being even in that league and he just doesn't even answer in anything but monosyllables - Overall the whole thing's weirdly contentious, like Tolkien really wishes he were anywhere but there - He pronounces "Sauron" the same way the interviewer does, like "dinosaur"  - At one point he uses the plural they, like "one surrendering themself" — whoa he was ahead of his time huh
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Nov 8, 2020 01:40
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Data Graham posted:- At one point he uses the plural they, like "one surrendering themself" — whoa he was ahead of his time huh
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Nov 8, 2020 01:52
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It's relatively common parlance in my part of the world. Atleast my parents generation would use it a lot.
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Nov 8, 2020 03:38
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Yeah I'm being a bit facetious.
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Nov 8, 2020 03:43
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I work for a beer distributor and my job involves visiting a lot of grocery stores throughout the week. It never occurred to me that the regional grocery store chain is basically a deus ex machine from Lord of the Rings. 
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Nov 8, 2020 03:53
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William Bear posted:I was idly skimming "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft today. It was an ok overview of Tolkien's worldview from a Catholic perspective. It did have this amusing paragraph: Try Eddisson's The Worm Ouroboros, it's fun and old JR was a fan
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Nov 8, 2020 06:00
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Data Graham posted:- He pronounces "Sauron" the same way the interviewer does, like "dinosaur" That's how I pronounced it when I first read the books. It was only when the movies came out that I thought maybe I was wrong about the pronunciation and 'corrected' myself.
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Nov 8, 2020 10:11
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Mahoning posted:I work for a beer distributor and my job involves visiting a lot of grocery stores throughout the week. It never occurred to me that the regional grocery store chain is basically a deus ex machine from Lord of the Rings. my mother drives this car 
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Nov 8, 2020 10:32
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Octy posted:That's how I pronounced it when I first read the books. It was only when the movies came out that I thought maybe I was wrong about the pronunciation and 'corrected' myself. Doesn’t the pronunciation guide in the appendices specifically say SOUR-on, not SORE-on? i.e. the movies had it correct?
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Nov 8, 2020 10:52
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Data Graham posted:
The interviewer while knowledgeable is very typical for that time, being forceful and overinsistent to the point of rudeness/condescention. Melvyn Bragg type poo poo, it's not really going to work with man like Tolks perc2 fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Nov 8, 2020 |
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Nov 8, 2020 12:31
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Just started Children of Hurin and it's really good so far. I bounced off the introduction and first chapter a while back (yeah I'm a wimp) because there was so much genealogy and I thought it would continue like that. But now that I'm actually into it, it really doesn't require that much background info.
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Nov 8, 2020 17:51
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Octy posted:That's how I pronounced it when I first read the books. It was only when the movies came out that I thought maybe I was wrong about the pronunciation and 'corrected' myself. Same (well, I "corrected" myself once I got all nerdy about vowels and diphthongs while learning languages and trying to obsessively follow the pronunciation guide). Though isn't it kind of a thing that JRRT was "do as I say, not as I do" about a lot of pronunciations, like isILdur and Tol erESsëa? Like "isILdur" kinda of screws up a lot of the poetry it's in if you pronounce it that way
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Nov 8, 2020 17:59
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i really like the premise of children of hurin but its a shame the story wasnt really written out in full detail, it still feels a bit like a sketch of a story
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Nov 8, 2020 18:03
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webmeister posted:Doesn’t the pronunciation guide in the appendices specifically say SOUR-on, not SORE-on? i.e. the movies had it correct? To be fair, I don't think I was flicking through the appendices on my first read through as a child. By the time I got into that stuff, the movies had just come out.
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Nov 8, 2020 21:09
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Data Graham posted:Same (well, I "corrected" myself once I got all nerdy about vowels and diphthongs while learning languages and trying to obsessively follow the pronunciation guide). Though isn't it kind of a thing that JRRT was "do as I say, not as I do" about a lot of pronunciations, like isILdur and Tol erESsëa? Like "isILdur" kinda of screws up a lot of the poetry it's in if you pronounce it that way The whole point of pronunciation is that saying is doing. "As I say" and "as I do" refer to the same actions!
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Nov 8, 2020 21:13
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You know what I mean  lol
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Nov 8, 2020 21:14
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Watched Return of the King extended cut and Eomer really benefits from the runtime additions, almost as much as Faramir. Karl Urban loving knocks it out of the park when Eomer trying to impress the horrors of battle onto Eowyn only to break down into a nervous wreck when he finds her body. That scream is just chilling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gogezOlJDs It really helps sell the juxtaposition of War for glory and renown versus war to protect what one loves. It's a hard lesson to learn and often can only come after one has lost what they tried to save. Screw the people who get mad thst Eowyn gives up the life of a warrior to be a healer. Peace is what all true warriors should strive for.
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Nov 9, 2020 05:15
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Nov 9, 2020 20:56
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I'm liking the Falmari. Given their neighbours id be protective if my ships too.
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Nov 9, 2020 21:18
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So it goes without saying LOTR and The Sil are profoundly Christian works. When this manifests in stuff like The Ring represents Sin or it was divine providence that destroyed the Ring or Eru knew all along Melkor would turn evil, I don't care much. These are big philosophical/theological questions I don't feel like discussing when it comes to a work of fiction. No, what has always gotten me was this anecdote from Faramir in Two Towers: '"'"And this I remember of Boromir as a boy, when we together learned the tale of our sires and the history of our city, that always it displeased him that his father was not king. ‘‘How many hundreds of years needs it to make a steward a king, if the king returns not?’’ he asked. ‘‘Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty,’’ my father answered. ‘‘In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice.’’''' I understand the meaning just fine. It is divine sanction that Aragorn rule and all things must accord with God's will. But something like this so much more mundane than the other things I mentioned and I guess maybe that's why it irritates me. A king and their family can rule a land for thousands of years and then if the right oaf with the right blood shows up, welp, time to pack it in, they deserve the throne more even if they've never lived here or been responsible for it. I know some will chafe at the idea of any kind of king but even by the standards of monarchy this is stupid.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:37
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