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Number_6 posted:bombastic scoring This is actually one of the main things that turns me off of TOS (and a bunch of old movies and TV in general). The music in old stuff is so out front and constant, even during dialoge-heavy scenes that it just ends up distracting my ears.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:10
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I'm not sure slow is the right word, but even a good TOS episode is 30-35 minutes of story squeezed into a mere 50 minute runtime.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:18
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A.o.D. posted:My first exposure to Trek was when it was in syndication and it was competing with first run Buck Rogers and Battlestar Galactica, and even to my very young eyes Trek was more compelling, although not more visually exciting. lol you old
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Nov 22, 2020 05:30
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I think it's a bit unfair to say that TOS or other contemporary shows were necessarily padded out to fill the timeslot. (although i've definitely had that impression the few times i've sat down to watch an old Dr. Who story, lol) My understanding is that part of it comes from storytelling conventions simply being different and the audience back then expecting a bit more explanation for how they got from point A to point B. I also feel like modern Trek could do with a little more fuckin' downtime. Like, we sometimes got to see Kirk and McCoy having a drink, or the TNG crew playing poker. Let us get to know the characters beyond whatever crisis they're wrapped up in. Not every moment needs to be advancing ~the plot arc~ .
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Nov 22, 2020 05:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:I was surprised how many episodes were just ‘an alternate Earth’ That was literally part of the sales pitch for the show, to try and get around skepticism from network execs that a space sci-fi show could be made on a television budget.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:12
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Grand Fromage posted:I'm not sure slow is the right word, but even a good TOS episode is 30-35 minutes of story squeezed into a mere 50 minute runtime. There are very thin plots stretched out to 50 mins that could have been resolved in half the time
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Nov 22, 2020 06:13
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I have been mainlining Trek for 25 years and I still haven't been able to make myself sit down and watch all of TOS.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:47
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Number_6 posted:TOS has plenty of faults, but I'm kind of surprised to hear that people consider it "slow" or dull. (Certain episodes excepted.) Even when nothing much is happening, it's full of bombastic scoring, bright colors, snappy dialogue, and strongly defined characters. And plenty of redshirt deaths. The bombastic scoring and bright colors kinda make it worse, tbh? There's a sequence where you look at the viewscreen for half a minute, and then closeup shots of every character on the bridge reacting like it's a fire emblem game, all while the orchestra goes loving apeshit bananas offscreen.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:08
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Modern audiences are desensitized to action and drama, which can make the slow-burn shows of the 60s seem so slow. It is pretty great for when you're working on some other things and need something in the background to keep you entertained but not distract from the task. Being music-heavy means that your brain won't distract itself by conjuring earworms.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:10
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https://twitter.com/GarrettRWang/status/1330393659666173954?s=20 It's super weird seeing them smiling while also wearing Voyager uniforms.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:27
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8one6 posted:https://twitter.com/GarrettRWang/status/1330393659666173954?s=20 So weird to see anyone from Voyager look like they are really having fun.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:34
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curiousTerminal posted:The bombastic scoring and bright colors kinda make it worse, tbh? There's a sequence where you look at the viewscreen for half a minute, and then closeup shots of every character on the bridge reacting like it's a fire emblem game, all while the orchestra goes loving apeshit bananas offscreen. how do you feel about sonic wallpaper
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Nov 22, 2020 07:38
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curiousTerminal posted:The bombastic scoring and bright colors kinda make it worse, tbh? There's a sequence where you look at the viewscreen for half a minute, and then closeup shots of every character on the bridge reacting like it's a fire emblem game, all while the orchestra goes loving apeshit bananas offscreen. The bright colors were pretty much to sell color TV. 1966 was when NBC switched their entire prime time lineup to color. NBC was also owned by RCA, which was the major color tv manufacturer at the time, and in 1965, RCA announced they were cutting the price of their new color tv models in 1965 and 1966, and used the NBC lineup to promote color TV. As an example, here was an RCA ad in 1967:  So the bright colors were a deliberate thing.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:
Also no Miri? Your whole post was a bunch of blah blah blah
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Nov 22, 2020 08:22
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curiousTerminal posted:The bombastic scoring and bright colors kinda make it worse, tbh? There's a sequence where you look at the viewscreen for half a minute, and then closeup shots of every character on the bridge reacting like it's a fire emblem game, all while the orchestra goes loving apeshit bananas offscreen. Yes, if only everything could've looked like a dentist's office with elevator muzak droning on or ORANGE AND TEAL
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Nov 22, 2020 09:31
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I'm not saying that the bright colors are bad, by the time I finished ENT I was definitely tired of everything being a dimly lit, gray hallway. I'm just saying when the visuals and audio are such a wild sensory experience in comparison to modern TV, the fact that it lingers on scenes for so long for dramatic tension is much more noticeable.
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Nov 22, 2020 09:40
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I’m starting a (re)watch of DS9. I saw a few seasons as a kid when it originally aired but tapped out before the Dominion War. I’m 3 episodes in and the characters all seem different from what I remember, especially Bashir. Interestingly, I can’t really remember any DS9 episodes other than one where we visit the Changling homeworld and it’s a sea of bad CGI. Also one of the early episodes about the Jem’Hadar are trying to find Ketracel white. Also a flashback episode involving baseball. Avery Brooks’s overacting is tough to sit through, and the treatment of Dax as an object of pursuit by Bashir and Quark is less than ideal. Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 11:27
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PostNouveau posted:lol you old Yes.
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Nov 22, 2020 12:02
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Epicurius posted:The bright colors were pretty much to sell color TV. 1966 was when NBC switched their entire prime time lineup to color. NBC was also owned by RCA, which was the major color tv manufacturer at the time, and in 1965, RCA announced they were cutting the price of their new color tv models in 1965 and 1966, and used the NBC lineup to promote color TV. As an example, here was an RCA ad in 1967: See also: Batman.
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Nov 22, 2020 13:01
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Josh Lyman posted:I’m starting a (re)watch of DS9. I saw a few seasons as a kid when it originally aired but tapped out before the Dominion War. I’m 3 episodes in and the characters all seem different from what I remember, especially Bashir. I'm doing the same, just got to season 4. It's definitely worth it. Season 1 does get notably better about halfway through. Especially Bashir.
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Nov 22, 2020 13:01
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Lester Shy posted:This is actually one of the main things that turns me off of TOS (and a bunch of old movies and TV in general). The music in old stuff is so out front and constant, even during dialoge-heavy scenes that it just ends up distracting my ears. Weird, this is the complete opposite of my experience. Maybe we watch different shows, but I always appreciate older shows and movies (and I would've included TOS in there) that I perceived not to have wall-to-wall music and just let the characters talk in peace, until there was something that justified the incidental music.
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Nov 22, 2020 13:47
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curiousTerminal posted:My issues with TOS are the same issues I have with a lot of 60s sci fi (and non-comedy TV) in general: It's slow as hell and is written from the perspective of a society that doesn't exist anymore, so a lot of the plots and characters are vaguely alienating. For me, that's how you have to appreciate those old shows: take them as stage theater (and really, a lot of the actors and production people are from that area). If you go in expecting modern "realistic" sets and special effects, you'll be disappointed. But stage theater doesn't have that and still tells amazing stories. But there is a lot to be said for how people are brought up with media. For a lot of people even in Gen X, they can't stand to watch black and white movies. I consider TWOK to be the best Star Trek movie, and one of the best movies ever. The pacing and story is perfect, there's nothing wasted. So I was shocked to hear a couple years ago about Gen Y and Z people saying it's boring and slow. Sometimes there's just a pop cultural divide. Look at pop culture from the late 1800s to the 1920s--it's hopelessly simple and corny to most of us, but was unironically enjoyed by the people at the time. Epicurius posted:The bright colors were pretty much to sell color TV. 1966 was when NBC switched their entire prime time lineup to color. NBC was also owned by RCA, which was the major color tv manufacturer at the time, and in 1965, RCA announced they were cutting the price of their new color tv models in 1965 and 1966, and used the NBC lineup to promote color TV. As an example, here was an RCA ad in 1967: Another good example. The colors and sets of TOS are vefy stylized and lit weird and unrealistically. You can imagine someone who started watching with TNG or DISCO going back to that and saying "there's no way a military ship would have pink lights on the wall." But when I started as a kid with TOS, it was completely normal and seemed realistic as a vision of the future--of course this was an 8 year old in the 80s. But it really does stand out, as I saw when I went to the sets in Ticonderoga NY that James Cawley made. Once you see it in person, you can't un see it.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:52
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Astroman posted:For me, that's how you have to appreciate those old shows: take them as stage theater (and really, a lot of the actors and production people are from that area). If you go in expecting modern "realistic" sets and special effects, you'll be disappointed. But stage theater doesn't have that and still tells amazing stories. In the same way that people go from saying TMP was slow and plodding to saying it was really good, I wonder if that'll ever happen for Final Frontier.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:05
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i watched all of tos once when i was a child and i know with confidence i will never do so again
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Nov 22, 2020 16:33
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smdh at all this talk of essential TOS and no sign of "A Piece of the Action" If good Star Trek isn't Spock wearing a big-lapelled suit holding a Tommy gun on a gangster while growling, "I'd advise yuz ta keep dialing'," I don't know what is. Oh look, a royal Fizzbin!
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Nov 22, 2020 17:29
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V-Men posted:In the same way that people go from saying TMP was slow and plodding to saying it was really good, I wonder if that'll ever happen for Final Frontier. Some of us already do say that itt. I've always liked Final Frontier.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:24
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Final Frontier is better than TMP but that’s a pretty low bar.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:29
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TFF is mangled in a lot of places but still more worth watching than most Trek made after 1996
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Nov 22, 2020 18:41
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Josh Lyman posted:I’m starting a (re)watch of DS9. I saw a few seasons as a kid when it originally aired but tapped out before the Dominion War. I’m 3 episodes in and the characters all seem different from what I remember, especially Bashir. Bashir's a real creep the first season-ish. They mellow him out later.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:54
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Astroman posted:Another good example. The colors and sets of TOS are vefy stylized and lit weird and unrealistically. You can imagine someone who started watching with TNG or DISCO going back to that and saying "there's no way a military ship would have pink lights on the wall." But when I started as a kid with TOS, it was completely normal and seemed realistic as a vision of the future--of course this was an 8 year old in the 80s. But it really does stand out, as I saw when I went to the sets in Ticonderoga NY that James Cawley made. Once you see it in person, you can't un see it. "Realism" is overrated and usually an excuse for a dreary lack of imagination, if I want realism I can watch literally anything else. It's 400 years in the future, show me something wild and spectacular and patently unreal. It's not like anything we make now is actually going to resemble the real far future one way or the other, why not swing for the fences anyway?
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Nov 22, 2020 18:58
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Josh Lyman posted:Avery Brooks’s overacting is tough to sit through, what the
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Nov 22, 2020 19:03
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Guys, guys. Both TMP and TFF are bad.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:34
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They both have different virtues and a great many drawbacks, but I personally find TMP way more enjoyable
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Nov 22, 2020 19:35
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Weird, this is the complete opposite of my experience. Maybe we watch different shows, but I always appreciate older shows and movies (and I would've included TOS in there) that I perceived not to have wall-to-wall music and just let the characters talk in peace, until there was something that justified the incidental music. This is almost certainly a "me" problem, but here's one example. These are just the first results when you search Youtube for "TOS scene" or "TNG scene." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DA4UAqdVls There's this incessant, dreary, plodding soundtrack that goes nowhere and never says anything underneath 80% of this scene. The snare drum, the moaning, wailing brass, it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. I get that the scene is supposed to be tense, but I imagine this is what the waiting room in Hell sounds like. It completely distracts from what's actually happening in the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTPAaLimLMY There's music here, but it's so much further down in the mix that it often blends into the ambient noise of the Enterprise. It's all smooth strings, French horn and very little percussion. Notably, the music only comes up in the mix when Data is alone, so it's not stepping on anybody's dialogue. You get a nice relaxing resolution once the tension in the scene is dealt with.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:43
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Lester Shy posted:
I’ve seen wrong opinions before, but rarely have I seen ones so wrong that they collapse into a singularly.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:48
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Lester Shy posted:I'm Rick Berman and I'm here to say
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Nov 22, 2020 19:53
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MrL_JaKiri posted:what the I also recently started rewatching DS9 and his acting in the two-part pilot is unarguably rough. He finds his feet pretty quickly though.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:05
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bull3964 posted:I’ve seen wrong opinions before, but rarely have I seen ones so wrong that they collapse into a singularly. me, listening to an episode of TOS 
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Nov 22, 2020 20:17
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Lester Shy posted:the moaning, wailing brass, it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. I get that the scene is supposed to be tense, but I imagine this is what the waiting room in Hell sounds like. turn off your text2speech
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Nov 22, 2020 20:29
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Lester Shy posted:This is almost certainly a "me" problem, but here's one example. These are just the first results when you search Youtube for "TOS scene" or "TNG scene." For whatever it's worth, that's a reused piece music from The Doomsday Machine -- it was originally the planet killer's leitmotif, but they reused it a bunch of times as sort of a generic "tense, approaching danger" theme. I agree that it's something of a forced fit in this scene. The score of The Doomsday Machine is one of my favorites, by the way. There are distinct themes for the Enterprise, the Constellation, Decker, the planet killer and even the transporter, and they're all used to good purpose.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:45
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