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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Slammy posted:

Hitz and Mrs. (September 1923)

Slammy posted:

Hitz and Mrs. (September 1923)


I may have inadvertently done the second one to some people a few times.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 27, 2020

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Dial M for MURDER
Sep 22, 2008
Hello tax thread
I need some advice for moving to Germany. I have a US based business (WA state) and I'm thinking about moving to Germany as my wife has dual citizenship as do my kids. How does it work if I continue to make money over here while living in Germany? Would I be better of incorporating in another state? Its all internet retail so no physical location. I understand I still pay US taxes but do I have to pay German taxes as well?

Also how does that work in Germany as far as health care goes? You have to be "registered" over there. Either through unemployment or your employer. Can we pay to be insured?

Edit: Is there some sort of special lawyer I should look for or something? I know this is kind of a weird subject

Dial M for MURDER fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Dec 28, 2020

PatMarshall
Apr 6, 2009

You probably need a tax professional with experience in international tax and either your own German tax advisor or a firm with a German affiliate. Depending on the business and how it is structured its possible it could be taxed in Germany. State taxes should also be considered. A lot of boutique firms specialize in expats, and the national firms can assist as well.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
Hey all, I've sent this question to an accountant but I got an out-of-office reply and it's simple enough that hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

Can you pay a CP171 notice through the IRS Direct Pay website? None of the options seem to fit exactly but maybe I'm missing something.

lol internet.
Sep 4, 2007
the internet makes you stupid
If the penalty for withdrawing your gains early from your Roth IRA is only 10% for stocks, wouldn't it make more sense to grow your money in that account vs a brokerage account if short term investments are taxed at 30%?

Or am I missing something here?

incogneato
Jun 4, 2007

Zoom! Swish! Bang!

lol internet. posted:

If the penalty for withdrawing your gains early from your Roth IRA is only 10% for stocks, wouldn't it make more sense to grow your money in that account vs a brokerage account if short term investments are taxed at 30%?

Or am I missing something here?

It's a 10% early withdrawal penalty in addition to the tax. It's not one or the other.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

lol internet. posted:

If the penalty for withdrawing your gains early from your Roth IRA is only 10% for stocks, wouldn't it make more sense to grow your money in that account vs a brokerage account if short term investments are taxed at 30%?

Or am I missing something here?

You're missing that the 10% is a penalty, not taxes. You owe income tax on the capital gains on top of the 10%.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

Hey all, I've sent this question to an accountant but I got an out-of-office reply and it's simple enough that hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

Can you pay a CP171 notice through the IRS Direct Pay website? None of the options seem to fit exactly but maybe I'm missing something.

Direct pay only works for individual balances

black.lion
Apr 1, 2004




For if he like a madman lived,
At least he like a wise one died.

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

Hey all, I've sent this question to an accountant but I got an out-of-office reply and it's simple enough that hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

Can you pay a CP171 notice through the IRS Direct Pay website? None of the options seem to fit exactly but maybe I'm missing something.

Since it's for a biz I think you have to do that through EFTPS

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
Thanks a million, I'll look into that.

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy
If I got a check on January 7th for work done in December, do I have to pay estimated taxes on that check by January 15th?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

human garbage bag posted:

If I got a check on January 7th for work done in December, do I have to pay estimated taxes on that check by January 15th?
Is your business accounting done on an accrual or cash basis? This is a thing you decide. And stick to.

And you want to do it cash. You "realize" this income when the cash in in your hands.

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy

Motronic posted:

Is your business accounting done on an accrual or cash basis? This is a thing you decide. And stick to.

And you want to do it cash. You "realize" this income when the cash in in your hands.

Does "cash in hand" mean the check is in my hand, or when the money from the check is deposited into my bank account?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

human garbage bag posted:

Does "cash in hand" mean the check is in my hand, or when the money from the check is deposited into my bank account?

When you are paid with a negotiable instrument. As in, you've received said instrument.

No, you can't structure "when you were paid" by delaying a deposit of that instrument.

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy
If you are earning a steady income throughout the year, do your estimated tax payments go up later in the year as your total yearly income goes into higher tax brackets? For example let's say I make $2000 a week. For the first three months of the year I would make around $26,000. $9875 of that will be taxed at 10%, and $16125 will be taxed at 12%. But in the last three months of the year I would be in the 24% tax bracket, so would I have to pay more for the fourth quarter estimated taxes than in the first quarter?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

That last posts tells me you need to hire an accountant. Even just for one year. Just to get you straightened out and set up with a system that is correct.

mentholmoose
Nov 5, 2009

YKNOW THERES ONLY ONE DIRECTION I KNOW AND THATS DRIVIN STRAIGHT TO THE NET
Hey tax thread, I have an inquiry that's probably better asked of a professional but somebody here might have an idea.

I live in New Hampshire; officially, I work in Massachusetts and pay state income tax on every dollar I earn. However, even though my official place of employment is technically Massachusetts, I do roughly 60% of my work in New Hampshire, which has no income tax. In the past few years I just went along with it and paid the full amount, but I was told I could get a refund on that 60% with (I guess) some sort of form in my filing and (I would assume) proof. Does anybody have any idea what the process would be for sorting that out? It could in theory increase my tax return by roughly a grand.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

human garbage bag posted:

If you are earning a steady income throughout the year, do your estimated tax payments go up later in the year as your total yearly income goes into higher tax brackets? For example let's say I make $2000 a week. For the first three months of the year I would make around $26,000. $9875 of that will be taxed at 10%, and $16125 will be taxed at 12%. But in the last three months of the year I would be in the 24% tax bracket, so would I have to pay more for the fourth quarter estimated taxes than in the first quarter?

If your income is steady then lookup your approximate annual income in the tax tables, divide by four, and that's your amount. Make sure you hit the safe harbor amount (110% of last years tax) with your estimated payments if your income might go up. If things change, adjust as you go along.

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 1, 2021

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy

H110Hawk posted:

If your income is steady then lookup your approximate annual income in the tax tables, divide by four, and that's your amount. Make sure you hit the safe harbor amount (110% of last years tax) with your estimated payments if your income might go up. If things change, adjust as you go along.

So if I had no income last year I don't have to pay estimated tax this year?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

human garbage bag posted:

So if I had no income last year I don't have to pay estimated tax this year?

You had $0 income in 2020? Now have some amount in 2021 as 1099? I don't think so, but I would do it regardless because you're going to be digging quite the hole for yourself by the end of the year. Don't forget the self employment tax.

Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

human garbage bag posted:

So if I had no income last year I don't have to pay estimated tax this year?
And just to clarify, the safe harbor mentioned above isn't what determines whether you need to pay estimated taxes at all, but rather how much you need to pay during the year to avoid an additional penalty for underpayment when filing your taxes. You can find more info on the IRS's Estimated Taxes page but if this is all new to you and you're going to be getting a significant amount of income this way I'd second Motronic's suggestion to get an accountant for at least the first year. Even more so if you're going to have state tax issues to contend with.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

My wife and I are executors for an estate with rental income. It looks like form 1041 isn’t generally even available in online tax programs. We’ve always done our own taxes but do the professionals here think we might be crossing the line to pay someone? How about if we add in a trust?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

smackfu posted:

My wife and I are executors for an estate with rental income. It looks like form 1041 isn’t generally even available in online tax programs. We’ve always done our own taxes but do the professionals here think we might be crossing the line to pay someone? How about if we add in a trust?

The estate should pay a professional to do the estates taxes regardless. Your own taxes keep on doing your thing.

Magic City Monday
Dec 5, 2016

Dial M for MURDER posted:

Hello tax thread
I need some advice for moving to Germany. I have a US based business (WA state) and I'm thinking about moving to Germany as my wife has dual citizenship as do my kids. How does it work if I continue to make money over here while living in Germany? Would I be better of incorporating in another state? Its all internet retail so no physical location. I understand I still pay US taxes but do I have to pay German taxes as well?

Also how does that work in Germany as far as health care goes? You have to be "registered" over there. Either through unemployment or your employer. Can we pay to be insured?

For simplicity's sake this all assumes you move to Germany on Jan. 1st and live there all year long.

As a tax resident in Germany, your worldwide income is subject to Germany taxation. How that affects your business probably depends on how it's incorporated and how you pay yourself. I only have to deal with my personal income from a German company so taxes are pretty simple, but yours will most likely benefit from professional help.

If you live in Germany, you have to register with your local Einwohnermeldeamt, but that doesn't have anything to do with the tax office (Finanzamt) or health insurance.

You can either be privately or publicly insured. There are some benefits to being privately insured (easier to get appointments, maybe have a private room if you are admitted to the hospital, the chief of surgery will operate on you insteaf of a resident or normal surgeon) but IMO, the public system is better in that your premiums are based in income (~15%) split between you and your employer (obviously not if you are self employed), but it does max out at some point (your premiums don't just increase forever if you're a high earner) and in general I've never had a problem getting an appointment or treatment. You just go to the doctor, give them your health card and you don't get a bill at the end (obviously there are some exceptions/edge cases to this).

In any case, even in the public system, there are different companies so you would just sign up with them (I'm partial to TK myself).

Also, don't forget about FACTA and filing your US taxes if you move here, not sure how that situation would be in your case, my first reaction is that Germany would want you to pay then all of the tax first and then you can just use Foreign Tax Credits to eliminate your US tax burden.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Does the interest not accumulating on my differed 2020 student loan payments count as income?

E: same question for my stimulus money

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Magic City Monday posted:

the chief of surgery will operate on you insteaf of a resident or normal surgeon

This is honestly surprising and kind of scary. I would have assumed the surgeon you get would be based on need.

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

The Kingfish posted:

Does the interest not accumulating on my differed 2020 student loan payments count as income?

Should not.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

The Kingfish posted:

Does the interest not accumulating on my differed 2020 student loan payments count as income?

E: same question for my stimulus money

No on the first one, and big no on the second (the only impact on your taxes is if you're one of the people who didn't get the stimulus you get it added to your refund or at least credited as a payment towards your taxes) though that's the actual stimulus and not the increased unemployment.

Magic City Monday posted:

Also, don't forget about FACTA and filing your US taxes if you move here, not sure how that situation would be in your case, my first reaction is that Germany would want you to pay then all of the tax first and then you can just use Foreign Tax Credits to eliminate your US tax burden.

US taxes you're almost certainly using either Foreign Tax Credits or Foreign Earned Income Exclusion to write off the income unless you make serious $$ from your business, though you may need the US return info to work out the tax due in Germany (not certain if Germany requires you to work out the income/expenses by their rules or if they take whatever you come up with for the US Schedule C). Also Germany has I believe a totalization agreement with the US, which means depending how long you're in Germany you may not need to do SE tax on your federal return (Social Security Admin has more info here on that). Overseas bank accounts will also require you to file the FBAR and possibly Form 8938 with your return depending on how much money you have over there (though if the money is deposited with the US branch of a German bank that doesn't count).

smackfu posted:

My wife and I are executors for an estate with rental income. It looks like form 1041 isn’t generally even available in online tax programs. We’ve always done our own taxes but do the professionals here think we might be crossing the line to pay someone? How about if we add in a trust?

Form 1041 can be something of a headache, both the estate and trust need to file separate ones if they make over $600 in income which I assume you hit (any income passed on to you or others also needs a Schedule K-1 passed to the person(s) in question for their 1040). Probably worth getting professional help unless you are REALLY certain what you are doing, though make sure you specify you need a Form 1041 because most lower level preparers aren't trained in those so you don't want to accidently get a newbie by not being clear on your needs.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer

MadDogMike posted:

US taxes you're almost certainly using either Foreign Tax Credits or Foreign Earned Income Exclusion to write off the income unless you make serious $$ from your business,

Just FYI if you do this, if you exclude all your income you can no longer contribute to your IRAs. In my particular case I've found that the retirement credit plus some other stuff offsets enough of my income tax that it's worth it to not take the exclusion just so I can keep adding to my IRA, but it's extremely YMMV.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

Just FYI if you do this, if you exclude all your income you can no longer contribute to your IRAs. In my particular case I've found that the retirement credit plus some other stuff offsets enough of my income tax that it's worth it to not take the exclusion just so I can keep adding to my IRA, but it's extremely YMMV.

Yeah, I would probably go with the Foreign Tax Credit over exclusion just because I'm fairly sure most European taxes are higher than what you'll owe on the same income for the US anyway (especially since I'm fairly sure they don't have anything equivalent to the QBID so you've got that extra taxable income for their standards) and it doesn't affect your AGI for various US purposes. Though fun fact, if your income is high enough you can in fact do both (exclude up to the max exclusion and take a tax credit for foreign taxes on the remainder) though it's obviously only the percentage of foreign tax corresponding to the unexcluded portion for the credit. Had to help another preparer at one point wrestle with fixing a return a different preparer had made a mistake with trying to do that.

Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
Double-Cross Posting from the newbie thread and the MTG thread.

I intend to what will probably be more than $1-2K in collectibles (Magic: the Gathering cards) this year. I basically never gently caress with complicated taxes; I just have my 401k, Roth IRA and my W2, so the prospect of getting it right is medium intimidating. Based on on the advice in the last two threads, collectibles are taxed as capital gains. The Schedule D wants to know things like "date acquired" but I have had these things for around 20 years and could not begin to tell you.

Based on the previous threads responses, something tells me I'm not getting out of this without actually hiring a tax professional, but does this thread have any advice for offloading collectables outside of that? I don't care about giving the tax man his pound of flesh; he can have his 28%. I just don't want to get fined for 10 grand in 5 years or something stupid.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

Magnetic North posted:

Double-Cross Posting from the newbie thread and the MTG thread.

I intend to what will probably be more than $1-2K in collectibles (Magic: the Gathering cards) this year. I basically never gently caress with complicated taxes; I just have my 401k, Roth IRA and my W2, so the prospect of getting it right is medium intimidating. Based on on the advice in the last two threads, collectibles are taxed as capital gains. The Schedule D wants to know things like "date acquired" but I have had these things for around 20 years and could not begin to tell you.

Based on the previous threads responses, something tells me I'm not getting out of this without actually hiring a tax professional, but does this thread have any advice for offloading collectables outside of that? I don't care about giving the tax man his pound of flesh; he can have his 28%. I just don't want to get fined for 10 grand in 5 years or something stupid.

As long as you report it properly on Schedule D/Form 8949 I doubt you'll have serious issues. Only real issue I forsee is figuring out the basis (i.e. what you paid for them when you got them), unless you have receipts or something I'm not sure how you demonstrate that if it comes up. Unless maybe there are price guides for Magic cards in previous years? Been so long since I messed with them I have no idea at this point. As for how to do collectibles in general, look at the instructions for line 18 in the Schedule D, which is where they wind up reported (in addition to doing them on Form 8949 since they don't have any reported basis).

Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

MadDogMike posted:

As long as you report it properly on Schedule D/Form 8949 I doubt you'll have serious issues. Only real issue I forsee is figuring out the basis (i.e. what you paid for them when you got them), unless you have receipts or something I'm not sure how you demonstrate that if it comes up. Unless maybe there are price guides for Magic cards in previous years? Been so long since I messed with them I have no idea at this point. As for how to do collectibles in general, look at the instructions for line 18 in the Schedule D, which is where they wind up reported (in addition to doing them on Form 8949 since they don't have any reported basis).

Yeah that's the thing, I have no idea about basically any of that since it's been so long, and certainly can't prove it.

I guess I will have to consult with a professional. Would your average accountant / CPA be able to help, or should I find someone with more specific focus on this? I was thinking that someone that does estate planning would know about the sale of collectables, especially those with uncertain provenance, based on offloading grandma's coins and poo poo.

JohnnyTreachery
Dec 7, 2000
For $1-2k I wouldn't consult a professional.

The exact dates aren't terribly important, all they're looking for is whether the collectibles are short term gains (held under a year, in which case you probably have tcgplayer receipts or something) or long term (held over a year). Maybe try getting a hold of old Inquest pricing guides for the 20+ year old cards and using those as support for your acquisition cost?

incogneato
Jun 4, 2007

Zoom! Swish! Bang!

Magnetic North posted:

Yeah that's the thing, I have no idea about basically any of that since it's been so long, and certainly can't prove it.

I guess I will have to consult with a professional. Would your average accountant / CPA be able to help, or should I find someone with more specific focus on this? I was thinking that someone that does estate planning would know about the sale of collectables, especially those with uncertain provenance, based on offloading grandma's coins and poo poo.

Do you have reason to believe the basis (purchase price) was significant? Like did you purchase these cards from other collectors at market rates, or were these pulled from packs? Sorry if that sounds dumb, last time I played Magic was two decades ago in high school.

The IRS is never going to argue with zero basis claimed. If the basis is ~20¢ a card and there are only a handful of cards, it may not be worth your time hiring someone to figure that out. But that will depend heavily on how you acquired them and how many there are. Basis is good for you because it reduces how much you have to pay taxes on, though, so definitely figure it out if it is significant.

This all makes me wonder if anyone has done 1031 exchanges of Magic cards. Not that people are probably reporting trades to begin with, I guess.

Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

incogneato posted:

Do you have reason to believe the basis (purchase price) was significant? Like did you purchase these cards from other collectors at market rates, or were these pulled from packs? Sorry if that sounds dumb, last time I played Magic was two decades ago in high school.

The IRS is never going to argue with zero basis claimed. If the basis is ~20¢ a card and there are only a handful of cards, it may not be worth your time hiring someone to figure that out. But that will depend heavily on how you acquired them and how many there are. Basis is good for you because it reduces how much you have to pay taxes on, though, so definitely figure it out if it is significant.

This all makes me wonder if anyone has done 1031 exchanges of Magic cards. Not that people are probably reporting trades to begin with, I guess.

For the vast majority of them, they were probably traded with other players. So I obtained a card, and gave someone that card for 2 of another card or something. There is obviously no prayer for me to remember what was traded for what.

Back to what you were talking about zero basis claimed: If it is an option for me to just put down zero basis, I will almost certainly do that. Is it basically deducting from the taxable? So, if I bought a card for 5 bux, and now it's 15, I am only being taxed 28% on the 10 gained dollars? If that's the case, most of these cards were probably worth only a few bucks in 2000 or so, so the basis is going to be comparably tiny if they are worth 50-100 or so now.

JohnnyTreachery posted:

For $1-2k I wouldn't consult a professional.

The exact dates aren't terribly important, all they're looking for is whether the collectibles are short term gains (held under a year, in which case you probably have tcgplayer receipts or something) or long term (held over a year). Maybe try getting a hold of old Inquest pricing guides for the 20+ year old cards and using those as support for your acquisition cost?

Can I just say "Unknown But Greater Than One Year" or "Circa 20XX"? I know that they are all greater than 1 year for certain.

incogneato
Jun 4, 2007

Zoom! Swish! Bang!

Magnetic North posted:

Back to what you were talking about zero basis claimed: If it is an option for me to just put down zero basis, I will almost certainly do that. Is it basically deducting from the taxable? So, if I bought a card for 5 bux, and now it's 15, I am only being taxed 28% on the 10 gained dollars? If that's the case, most of these cards were probably worth only a few bucks in 2000 or so, so the basis is going to be comparably tiny if they are worth 50-100 or so now.

Yeah, you've got the right idea. Technically the correct way to look at it is that only the increase in value ("gain") is taxed at all. So if you buy some stock for $50 and sell it for $75, you're taxed on the "gain" of $25. That's because the stock had a basis of $50.

No one would look twice at you reporting the sale of a capital asset with zero basis (especially if that sale doesn't show up on a 1099 anywhere to begin with). The default position of the IRS when basis can't be proven by a taxpayer is zero anyway. You're only leaving your own money on the table, although it sounds like maybe not much in this case.

CellBlock
Oct 6, 2005

It just don't stop.



Magnetic North posted:

Can I just say "Unknown But Greater Than One Year" or "Circa 20XX"? I know that they are all greater than 1 year for certain.

I know for stocks, you can report date of acquisition as things like "unknown" or "various", so I'd imagine you can do the same for collectables. Form 8949 has separate sections for long term and short term, so you can just list the sales in the long term section.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged
OK, bizarre question popped up here, I’m wondering if anybody happens to know the answer from something I missed in my research, or if it’s one of those unprecedented things from the new law and we’re probably going to get a new and exciting tax court case to figure out the correct answer. Got somebody who didn’t get the second stimulus after getting the first one, we mentioned the recovery rebate credit but he raised the point his tax refunds are subject to offset/getting taken to pay back taxes. To my understanding they weren’t taking money from the regular deposits, but will they seize any recovery credit as part of a tax refund? I’m honestly unsure of the answer here, and everybody else I’ve checked with pretty much had no idea but they admired the problem.

Also, while we’re on the subject of the stimulus, for the record H&R Block is NOT seizing stimulus payments for people that got refunds on prepaid cards or paid for their return out of their refund. Right now anything that can’t be passed along I understand they’re working towards mailing a check out for, and we should also be able to do a lookup on status if the money actually hit our system (most of the problems I’ve researched have been the government not even releasing the stimulus payment to begin with). We had a horde of psychos in our offices screaming at people with no direct control over the situation like we’re thieves, drat near needed police, it was a horrible COVID-19 threat from everybody stuffing the offices, and we had three new people in our district quit over how bad last Monday was :argh:. I mention this because I’ve seen people pushing the “H&R Block is just stealing the stimulus” crap in Debate and Discussion and IRS phone reps have been saying “ask H&R Block for the money” in cases where the money wasn’t released at all (and to people who didn’t actually file a a return with us!). If folks who see that kind of thing could inform people I’d appreciate it, right now I’m worried that kind of fear mongering is going to get people in our offices murdered.

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Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

MadDogMike posted:

OK, bizarre question popped up here, I’m wondering if anybody happens to know the answer from something I missed in my research, or if it’s one of those unprecedented things from the new law and we’re probably going to get a new and exciting tax court case to figure out the correct answer. Got somebody who didn’t get the second stimulus after getting the first one, we mentioned the recovery rebate credit but he raised the point his tax refunds are subject to offset/getting taken to pay back taxes. To my understanding they weren’t taking money from the regular deposits, but will they seize any recovery credit as part of a tax refund? I’m honestly unsure of the answer here, and everybody else I’ve checked with pretty much had no idea but they admired the problem.

Also, while we’re on the subject of the stimulus, for the record H&R Block is NOT seizing stimulus payments for people that got refunds on prepaid cards or paid for their return out of their refund. Right now anything that can’t be passed along I understand they’re working towards mailing a check out for, and we should also be able to do a lookup on status if the money actually hit our system (most of the problems I’ve researched have been the government not even releasing the stimulus payment to begin with). We had a horde of psychos in our offices screaming at people with no direct control over the situation like we’re thieves, drat near needed police, it was a horrible COVID-19 threat from everybody stuffing the offices, and we had three new people in our district quit over how bad last Monday was :argh:. I mention this because I’ve seen people pushing the “H&R Block is just stealing the stimulus” crap in Debate and Discussion and IRS phone reps have been saying “ask H&R Block for the money” in cases where the money wasn’t released at all (and to people who didn’t actually file a a return with us!). If folks who see that kind of thing could inform people I’d appreciate it, right now I’m worried that kind of fear mongering is going to get people in our offices murdered.

For the first part, I have no idea. You're correct that the original payments were supposed to be exempt from being seized but who knows what the IRS will do for anything attached to a refund. Anecdotally I know of at least one person who received their ex's stimulus to pay back child support but I'm unclear of the timing and if that is solely because it was child support which I know can abide by different rules. Just knowing how the IRS is working on ancient tech with lovely programming I would imagine that they may not have the ability to distinguish between one part of the refund and another in regards to applying it to back bills.

For the second, that sucks dude, good luck getting through the season with that extra hurdle right in the beginning. I hate that this stuff gets pushed off to tax preparers like us to deal with.

I for one am not sure what I should do if I encounter any clients who got the first stimulus but not the second. There's no reason they shouldn't get the second if they got the first, but I know there's gonna be at least one because that's how things always work. I would want to fill out the recovery rebate reconciliation saying they didn't get the $600 but then what if I do that and they then receive it, outside of the refund, I don't want anybody to be hosed and have to pay back the IRS or something like that.

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