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RBA Starblade posted:With Bexce this hasn't been as broken as I thought it'd be because usually the mech's too banged up anyway to get more than a couple parts (it changes it from head/torso/legs/core to structure damage overall in some way), so two mission for a mech minimum anyway. I had an enemy pilot eject and the mech was so chewed up it didn't even show up as salvageable lol Yeah the vast majority of the time the panic system ejections totally make sense, it's a great feature that removes tedium by making it so you don't have to finish off enemies that are 1% alive but have 1 leg and 0 weapons or whatever. Every once in a while you get lucky/unlucky though and it's good for a lol sean10mm fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 17:20
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Having my pilot start panicking is usually a good sign i should pull that mech out of the fight anyways.
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Jan 11, 2021 17:38
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sean10mm posted:Roguetech is a sloppy mess both technically and in terms of everything else.
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Jan 11, 2021 21:24
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Lazyhound posted:I reinstalled Roguetech and as much as I want to love it, the AI is unbelievably slow now for some reason, like I literally got up and made a sandwich while waiting for my turn to come back around. I love it. Yes, it is slow as poo poo. All loading times are forever, AI turns are forever, I sometimes just alt-tab if there is a whole base worth of turrets that still need to go at the end of a turn. That said, those are costs I am willing to pay for all the new weapons, mechs, and equipment. The online map is also pretty cool and a clever way to turn a single-player game into multiplayer. The mod is currently my favorite game and the more I play it the higher it climbs my all-time list. I'd love for Battletech 2 to be made in the image of RogueTech (but with performance optimizations since HBS controls the internals of the game). CompeAnansi fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 06:24
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I on the other hand fervently hope for not that
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Jan 12, 2021 14:40
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Psycho Landlord posted:I on the other hand fervently hope for not that Why would you want fewer weapon types, fewer mechs, and fewer ways to customize your equipment on your mechs? That sounds... insane. Unless there is something else about RogueTech you fervently hope to avoid?
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Jan 12, 2021 15:09
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CompeAnansi posted:Why would you want fewer weapon types, fewer mechs, and fewer ways to customize your equipment on your mechs? That sounds... insane. Unless there is something else about RogueTech you fervently hope to avoid? Roguetech is basically the poster child for why more ISN'T better. It's a huge, disorganized, unbalanced and buggy mess precisely because they have no thought to do anything but keep adding more and ignoring how it makes the game poo poo itself constantly. There nothing wrong with the idea of more mech customization or a more intricate mechlab or whatever. But it's supposed to function as part of a whole, not just be one of 100 other things duct-taped together into infinity gigabytes of janky frustrating bullshit that as a bonus is fronted by a huge loving rear end in a top hat who treats bug reports as FAKE NEWS
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Jan 12, 2021 15:38
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I really like not being able to completely customize mechs. It makes getting one that fits my needs and playstyle feel that much cooler.
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Jan 12, 2021 15:41
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CompeAnansi posted:Why would you want fewer weapon types, fewer mechs, and fewer ways to customize your equipment on your mechs? That sounds... insane. Unless there is something else about RogueTech you fervently hope to avoid? Nthing this but I'd much rather have a smaller set of really well balanced options than a huge set that is broken. Ideally you want a huge set that is balanced but that gets exponentially more difficult as you grow so it's probably not a realistic goal.
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Jan 12, 2021 15:45
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Casnorf posted:I really like not being able to completely customize mechs. It makes getting one that fits my needs and playstyle feel that much cooler. Yeah that too. The fixed engines are very good. That stops mechs from just being cosmetically different containers of a certain tonnage and all containers of the same tonnage are otherwise identical. Honestly, they probably should have gone with no customization or even more limited customization (MWLL shows Battletech functions best when you don't stick to TT stats and don't have customization), but the grogs would have a heart attack over it.
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Jan 12, 2021 15:56
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Complete customization is the first step road to unapologetic minmaxing. Part of the appeal of tabletop for me was getting results with limited Mech/weapon choices. Same with the base game. DatonKallandor posted:Honestly, they probably should have gone with no customization or even more limited customization (MWLL shows Battletech functions best when you don't stick to TT stats and don't have customization), but the grogs would have a heart attack over it. Limited customization in the base game would be fine if you could field larger forces. With the 4-Mech limit, having limited customization options would have made for a worse gaming experience.
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Jan 12, 2021 16:00
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Yeah, the Vanilla game's sins wasn't lack of customization, it was lack of mission setup and samey engagement distances.
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Jan 12, 2021 16:10
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The mechlab is good. The ten billion configurations in BEXCE are showing me that customized or not, there's an official variant anyway.
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Jan 12, 2021 16:14
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BTA 3062 strives to thread the needle between Roguetech's "keep piling poo poo on until the game breaks down" design and vanilla's barebones approach, and I think it succeeds pretty admirably. There's a whole shitload of customization and content added and a zillion new ways to put together your forces and incentives to use all weight classes of mechs and stuff, but it runs massively better than Roguetech and isn't remotely as completely insane to even wrap your head around.
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Jan 12, 2021 16:16
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DatonKallandor posted:Yeah that too. The fixed engines are very good. That stops mechs from just being cosmetically different containers of a certain tonnage and all containers of the same tonnage are otherwise identical. MW2 showed how unlimited customization broke the game.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:01
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sean10mm posted:There nothing wrong with the idea of more mech customization or a more intricate mechlab or whatever. Nothing inherently wrong, but there is something wrong with it as a video game product: approachability. Making a game for the grogiest of grognards is not a route to commercial success. I think BT sold amazingly well for what it is, steamspy suggests between 1 and 2 million. Part of that is probably that it reviewed fairly well in general-audience sites. Limiting the mechlab to some basic decisions of guns and armor was probably one reason why it reviewed well. sean10mm posted:But it's supposed to function as part of a whole, not just be one of 100 other things duct-taped together into infinity gigabytes of janky frustrating bullshit Even if you ignore Roguetech's technical problems and limitations, it is IMO not a good game. Battletech the TTG is not a good game, by any modern standards. Modding the game to be more like the TTG is a step backwards. HBS managed to pound it into something like balance by removing things, and IMO got about as close as possible to good balance in the mechlab given the limitations. The engine rules in TTG are poor game design, the stair-step effect is why particular mechs suck. XL engines are a bad patch on that. Better game design would involve moving further away from the TTG engine/speed/tonnage chart, not putting it back in the game. Lockback posted:Nthing this but I'd much rather have a smaller set of really well balanced options than a huge set that is broken. Ideally you want a huge set that is balanced but that gets exponentially more difficult as you grow so it's probably not a realistic goal. Yep, lots of options are only meaningful if they're balanced enough that they're actually an option. Lockback posted:Yeah, the Vanilla game's sins wasn't lack of customization, it was lack of mission setup and samey engagement distances. And that was mostly due to the super short sightlines, which from my understanding was done for gameplay & map design reasons more than anything else. They tested things that would make long engagement ranges more of a thing and found it was less fun, plus made the maps feel even smaller.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:05
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Klyith posted:And that was mostly due to the super short sightlines, which from my understanding was done for gameplay & map design reasons more than anything else. They tested things that would make long engagement ranges more of a thing and found it was less fun, plus made the maps feel even smaller. Yeah, I think where they landed was good and done for good reasons, though I think they could have especially varied the missions (ex: Main lance is 3 mechs, 2nd lance can't have mechs heavier than 35t and deploys somewhere else) but that's always the rub. "You should have given me more!" is always easy to ask in software/games.
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Jan 12, 2021 17:11
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Lockback posted:Yeah, I think where they landed was good and done for good reasons, though I think they could have especially varied the missions (ex: Main lance is 3 mechs, 2nd lance can't have mechs heavier than 35t and deploys somewhere else) but that's always the rub. "You should have given me more!" is always easy to ask in software/games. Oh for sure. Mission design stuff is also fairly orthogonal to the unit balance / tactical design stuff; you can make interesting scenarios for just about any tactical ruleset. The game could have a lot more mission variety (as seen in campaign & flashpoint missions) and break away from the 4 mech lance, easily. The limited number of missions and 4-mech deployments are very much about the limited budget they were working with. IMO they did really well considering that, by making the basic templates that could be re-used in fairly easy ways but still have some variability. And the 4 mech lance was a thing they chose early for gameplay speed, to keep the hour count for missions down. More templates and exceptions to the 4 mech squad would both be cool, but that represents a lot of programmer time (one of the limiting resources in gamedev).
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Jan 12, 2021 18:23
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Klyith posted:Oh for sure. Mission design stuff is also fairly orthogonal to the unit balance / tactical design stuff; you can make interesting scenarios for just about any tactical ruleset. The game could have a lot more mission variety (as seen in campaign & flashpoint missions) and break away from the 4 mech lance, easily. One small thing I never understood was how they arrived at giving PPCs 35 heat. It makes them virtually worthless and it's not even in line with table top heat balance, where an Awesome 8Q has 28 heat sinks for 30 heat from 3xPPC but in the PC game it's a heat pig.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:07
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Yeah, I can only assume in the tabletop game it's amazingly good but in HBS BT the standard Awesome's a colossal piece of poo poo
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Jan 12, 2021 20:12
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RBA Starblade posted:Yeah, I can only assume in the tabletop game it's amazingly good but in HBS BT the standard Awesome's a colossal piece of poo poo If you were to lift the PPCs stats directly from TT, it would have a heat of 30, not 35. Thats ~ 2 more heat sinks worth of heat. In TT there is no fog of war at ~300m, like there is in HBS BT. For obvious reasons, this makes ranged combat more important. Finally, there is no "called shot" mechanic in TT like there is in HBS BT (well there is, but it involves the targeting computer and its far, far weaker). Called shot eliminates the sole weakenss of the ML (i.e. that it does damage in smaller chunks, meaning the damage gets spread round). All of these things combined make PPCs with stock stats just not that great.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:21
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IIRC in tabletop the Awesome 8Q is infamously hard to kill because it has like 97% of the maximum possible armor, standard engine (so losing a side torso doesn't disable it like happens with an XL), no ammo to explode, and a jillion single heat sinks that act as "crit padding" so if you even get a critical hit the odds are good you just lose 1 heat sink instead of something more vital. Plus long range having more value in TT means endless PPC sniping is very dangerous.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:30
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The PPC thing is definitely a weird-rear end misstep and I don't get it. Just mod them down to 30.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:36
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Aws-8q is one of only a tiny handful of t1 mechs that’s still viable in t2+ play, on TT
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Jan 12, 2021 20:39
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sean10mm posted:IIRC in tabletop the Awesome 8Q is infamously hard to kill because it has like 97% of the maximum possible armor, standard engine (so losing a side torso doesn't disable it like happens with an XL), no ammo to explode, and a jillion single heat sinks that act as "crit padding" so if you even get a critical hit the odds are good you just lose 1 heat sink instead of something more vital. And if you get within the minimum range of the PPCs it can deliver a pretty solid punch or kick.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:52
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So I decided to install Battletech Extended 3025-3057 Commanders Edition and see what its like. There are a freaking ton of other mods included in this. I can see that some of these are modules for BTEX, some are flashpoints, and others are related to the map. There's also alot of other stuff in here. I don't know what it does and I want to know what I can remove without ruining BTEX. Basically, what I want to keep is: -Additional mechs/tech -Full IS starmap -Flashpoints -Panic system -Better AI
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Jan 12, 2021 23:05
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CompeAnansi posted:Why would you want fewer weapon types, fewer mechs, and fewer ways to customize your equipment on your mechs? That sounds... insane. Unless there is something else about RogueTech you fervently hope to avoid? lmao this is the most disingenuous response to someone not wanting Roguetech to be official
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Jan 12, 2021 23:16
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Roguetech stans are weird
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Jan 12, 2021 23:31
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And not even half as bad as the RT dev
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Jan 12, 2021 23:43
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I'm the weirdo who thinks the vanilla gameplay is fun enough that I don't want to install a mega-mod and risk breaking it. But if I did, there's Extended 3025 and Advanced 3062 right there instead of Roguetech.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:45
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Psion posted:lmao this is the most disingenuous response to someone not wanting Roguetech to be official These logs (that my mod made) tell me nothing, banned for bullying me. I'm just happy that with how shittily rt was thrown together the bop drive and acid bee missiles would fit in perfectly with it
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Jan 12, 2021 23:49
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Organ Fiend posted:So I decided to install Battletech Extended 3025-3057 Commanders Edition and see what its like. Is there anything that's bugging you in particular? Most of what it comes with is pretty core. You could certainly drop the flashpoints (everything prefixed with FP, I think also give me death and give me kell). You can also freely drop pilotfatigue (pilots need to rest for a few days between missions or they get the low spirits tag). I think LootMagnet can be removed, but I like it (rolls up salvage, so 30 billion jumpjets can count as 1 pick). You could also drop some of the QOL stuff like the BattletechPerformanceFixes (does what it says) and BTMLColorLOSMod (changes shooting lines to make clear if you're targeting front or sides). You might be able to drop BTSimpleMechAssembly (makes salvage based on structure damage done; allows assembling a mech from different variants of the same chassis) but again I haven't tried. Some non-obviously-named stuff that's definitely necessary is FullXotlTables (enemy lance composition tables), ISM3025 (full IS map). A lot of the submods do have annoying pieces, but generally I prefer editing out the annoying piece to deleting the whole submod e.g. loot magnet is a great idea, but for some dumb reason also includes a salvage renegotiation minigame by default, so I turn that off (holdback: enabled: false in it's mod.json)
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Jan 12, 2021 23:53
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3062 is a solid choice in my experience and runs a lot better than RT. The online map thing RT had was cool, but I think that was originally a different mod that got added in later?
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Jan 13, 2021 00:46
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Yeah it was from a different mod and when rt consumed it up it broke it for nonrt
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Jan 13, 2021 01:00
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junidog posted:Is there anything that's bugging you in particular? Most of what it comes with is pretty core. You could certainly drop the flashpoints (everything prefixed with FP, I think also give me death and give me kell). You can also freely drop pilotfatigue (pilots need to rest for a few days between missions or they get the low spirits tag). I think LootMagnet can be removed, but I like it (rolls up salvage, so 30 billion jumpjets can count as 1 pick). You could also drop some of the QOL stuff like the BattletechPerformanceFixes (does what it says) and BTMLColorLOSMod (changes shooting lines to make clear if you're targeting front or sides). You might be able to drop BTSimpleMechAssembly (makes salvage based on structure damage done; allows assembling a mech from different variants of the same chassis) but again I haven't tried. Some non-obviously-named stuff that's definitely necessary is FullXotlTables (enemy lance composition tables), ISM3025 (full IS map). A lot of the submods do have annoying pieces, but generally I prefer editing out the annoying piece to deleting the whole submod e.g. loot magnet is a great idea, but for some dumb reason also includes a salvage renegotiation minigame by default, so I turn that off (holdback: enabled: false in it's mod.json) Well the first problem is that it loads incredibly slowly. Removing stuff that I don't need or want, if it would fix performance, would be great. I played through a contract. Something was wrong with the hit percentages. Not sure if it's bad, but it would be nice to know what the changes were. The panic system doesn't appear to work. I stripped the weapons and torsos off of a recruit Kintaro and didn't get any messages about reduced morale. I incapacitated the kintaro and only got a single part ... and then got a message about the employer wanting to change the salvage terms. Then I find out I can't do any more missions because my pilots are fatigued. The salvage and fatigue changes are irritating and it'd like to remove them. I also don't know what other weird things were added. Minimally, it would be nice to know what the new rules were before going in. I'd also like panic system to work. Are all of the mods fully modular or are there dependencies? Is there a central changelog?
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Jan 13, 2021 01:13
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CompeAnansi posted:Why would you want fewer weapon types, fewer mechs, and fewer ways to customize your equipment on your mechs? That sounds... insane. Unless there is something else about RogueTech you fervently hope to avoid? I play enough tabletop BT, and mekhq/megamek, that I can honestly say, no, you're flat out wrong about the idea of having a more focused and well-designed mechlab being "insane." It's actually one of the best decisions HBS made for this game and having meaningful decisions related to mech chassis selection goes a long way to prevent every highly-customized twinked out player mech feeling like cosmetic variations of a generic, minmaxed ideal. Sometimes making something absurdly breakable is a lot of fun in its own right but it says a lot that people actually care about what versions of what chassis they manage to salvage in vanilla and other, less kitchen-sinkish overhaul mods. Don't get me wrong it's impressive in its ambitions and it's the only way I'll ever get to see the Juliano, Agrotera, or Calliope in a videogame, but there is definitely merit in how HBS decided to go about with designing their game's mechlab.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:23
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Actually does RT have the Sarath in it these days? I can forgive a lot if it has the Sarath, even if it's just a proxy model.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:25
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Organ Fiend posted:Well the first problem is that it loads incredibly slowly. Removing stuff that I don't need or want, if it would fix performance, would be great. It's modular, mostly (though I haven't fiddled with anything), but the panic system isn't a guarantee (though usually you will see people start to get modifiers like Unsettled, Worried, Panic Level Critical, etc., which also will impact their hit chances iirc), hit chances are reduced across the board / evasion is stronger, scaling more so the lighter the mech (support weapons and pulse weapons counter this early on), salvage is based on health not remaining parts, and the salvage terms thing is ignorable or you can bust through it for a minor rep hit, but occasionally they offer you more of better stuff instead, it's kind of neat. The fatigue thing is an XCOM thing they put in to encourage a larger stable of mechwarriors, the more the mechwarriors use particular mechs, the less fatigued they get and eventually they get bonuses to piloting them as well. There's a changelog on nexus, but it's not comprehensive since it's basically a modpack. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 01:48
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Organ Fiend posted:Well the first problem is that it loads incredibly slowly. Removing stuff that I don't need or want, if it would fix performance, would be great. I don't think tinkering around the edges with optional mods will help with the load times, it's gonna be slow due to all the core new mechs/variants, unfortunately. What was wrong with the hit chances? If it's just the way it uses non-round numbers, it integrates whatever the "show true hit chance" mod is. Vanilla reports everything in 5% increments,. I don't think the mod is changing anything under the hood, just showing unrounded numbers, whereas vanilla shows rounded values. Panic system doesn't always kick in, there's definitely some randomness in whether a hit causes them to panic, so maybe you just got an unlucky series of rolls? Otherwise IDK. For fatigue just delete the PilotFatigue folder in the mod directory. It is save compatable, but when you load, any fatigue will be converted into an injury (e.g. if you load a save with a pilot who had 5 days of fatigue, he'll now have a 5 day injury). For the salvage you can either delete the LootMagnet folder in the mod directory to revert to vanilla salvage behavior, or just turn of the dumb "employer changes the terms" mechanic by editing the mod.json file in that folder, and turning "true" to "false" in the entry for "enabled:" nested under "holdback" It's pretty modular, but there are some dependencies. You can check each mod's mod.json and it'll list what it depends on. Not 100% sure that's always specified though. I don't think there's a better general list of what's changed than the nexus description page, unfortunately. The nexus page also has the only changelog I've seen, but it's simultaneously way too long and also too vague. I don't think there's anything better though.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:02
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I always disable/modify the speed one too. Having the mechs fast walk everywhere just takes me out of it. Don't like it at all. If you're having load issues with bexce is it because you didn't install it with the external mod manager? If you try to use the games mod folder it causes issues. There should be instructions on the nexus mod page. lemonadesweetheart fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 03:00
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