swimsuit posted:

maybe if you arrange all of this information in a misspelling of the word "trump" they will understand, op

Dustcat posted:

fair, but although nixon's intent was to crack down on hippies, guess what it immediately turned into

Hairy Marionette posted:

Perhaps, but under the control of China people felt the need to set themselves on fire.


China did Maoism once, they can do similar again.

THS posted:

fanfic insert posted:

pretty sure he mentioned "the blacks" on the tapes

Gringostar posted:

honestly we should be skeptical of any media narrative that any state is pushing and instead try to find out what’s actually happening through the use of independent journalism or at least try to find as unbiased sources as possible prior to accepting anything as fact

Atrocious Joe posted:

how do we define mainstream Islam


That's a Buddhist monk protesting what he saw as persecution by the Catholic leadership of South Vietnam.

Hairy Marionette posted:

Holy gently caress that’s an embarrassing mistake. My apologies. It’s interesting that Google brings up that image as a Tibetan monk. It’s the first result for Tibetan Monk on fire, which is a real phenomenon. This is a good example of anti-Chinese propaganda. It’s the most famous photo of a Buddhist monk setting himself on fire, so of course it is all over the information about Tibetan Buddhists.

fanfic insert posted:

Okay so youve done some googling now that you scrolled past my post.

The healthcare bit is enshrined in law, its legally your right as a citizen to have access to healthcare. its a goal and they're making progress on it and i even implied it wasnt universal in the first post. the ACA is a completely different thing since it very specifically excludes a whole lot of people. The Chinese literally goes out of their way to make it a basic human right. But its the same issue as the education, its a big country and it takes a while to build things when youve been a colony of foreign states for as long as they were.

I mean, how can you seriously look at the ways the US is actively limiting who has access to either of those two, and then look at what china is doing to expand access to it, and still claim the US is somehow better, its mind boggling to me.

The stuff on Xi's dad? Imagine youre a kid growing up in america, father is sent to jail and youre raised in extreme poverty, what are the odds you end up as President of America? Absolutely loving zero.

Gringostar posted:

bull loving poo poo

ive said there are other factors such as trump and covid, not that those are the only ones

fanfic insert posted:

I made the edit to late, but he mentions them because of the black panther party is my take, like it wasnt purely racist motive to mention "the blacks", it was them as a political block of power that was the motivation.

Judakel posted:

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Flavius Aetass posted:

go listen to the first RATM album, goddamn

Grapplejack posted:

literally no one does this in cspam. Every time xinjiang comes up people invent these US apologists that don't exist here to handwave / justify their own dismissal of the topic

BrainDance posted:

I haven't 'done some googling', I live here dude. I have first hand experience with these things, so does my fiancee, her family, everyone I know. Things may be 'enshrined in law' but there is next to no real action, not in any way that actually benefits Chinese people. If anything, shits been getting worse lately.

I don't know what you're projecting onto me here, I never did (or would) say 'the US is somehow better', although that's how it always goes, isn't it? You get people unable to talk about Chinese domestic issues without America dominating the conversation. This came up in the C-Spam China thread just recently, I forget who it was but someone made the point that it's just a natural thing on an English speaking forum. And I get that, to an extent, but it doesn't entirely justify this fetishization of China as just 'the opposite of America.' it's a real state, capable of doing a poo poo job at things like every other state. You're very gullible if you buy into everything that comes out of the party's mouth just like if you were to buy into the idealistic US state bullshit.

THS posted:

as a US citizen i have every reason to focus on my state above all else

as the classic chomsky quote goes

“My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century.”

i see no need to draw an equivalence between us and china, because frankly there isn’t one, and even if there was, it would be the least convincing thing to do: throwing stones from this hosed up american glass house

Nix Panicus posted:

I made the terrible mistake of going into D&D and my brain is still recovering. I'm seeing apologists in the trees

THS posted:

Dustcat posted:

jesus dude even if i granted you that was "political" and not "racial", holy gently caress look at the drug stops, arrests, and charges of whites vs nonwhites today, which is what I mean by "guess what it turned into"

Gringostar posted:

first of all, lol that there isn’t an equivalence between china and the us

but secondly the part of that quote that’s going way over your head is that at no point is he saying that criticizing the actions done by actors that aren’t carried out by his own government shouldn’t happen, it’s that they shouldn’t be his primary concern

fanfic insert posted:

I wasn't arguing against that, I was just saying that even the racist bit has a political starting point, he probably wouldnt have mentioned "the blacks" in the tape if it wasnt for the actual influential political block of the black panthers.

fanfic insert posted:

(as well as being in the sphere of a state with actual values and not just empty words that everyone brings their own meaning to).

Hot Karl Marx posted:

Could Korea qualify or is that more defensive from NATO?

F Stop Fitzgerald posted:

youre definitely gonna get jumped on for this, rip, but you're not wrong. biden, macron, merkel, bolsonaro, trump, etc, etc, they are all who they say they are. they do not hide their values or the horrible things they believe in. why would the Xi and the CPC be different? they dont even have to campaign or anything!

THS posted:

first of all, get back to me when china invades a sovereign nation, murders millions, destabilizes the entire region, and creates a refugee crisis of tens of millions fleeing. there is zero equivalence, america is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, without any serious competition. no equivalence here. the degree to which the US causes more death and misery is unparalleled

but secondly at no point did i say that we should never criticize china and i have repeatedly said what is going on in xinjiang, even though english sources that aren’t state propaganda are rare, is bad, so what part of that is going over my head? the united states should be the first and foremost concern for the evil it does, and for united states citizens there’s no question about priorities

Hot Karl Marx posted:

So is that a yes or a no? That's not what I asked. I'm not trying to set up a gotcha or anything

Gringostar posted:

the murdering millions and displacing millions more thing ill give you, but lol if you think the damming of the mekong and causing a massive drought in several countries in its path is doing nothing to destabilize the region

also good for you for being able to criticize both the us and china at the same time since that’s literally all anyone seems to be saying should happen

THS posted:

sorry, i assume some historical knowledge that i shouldnt probably. it would be an incredible reach to blame china for korea, and the civilian death count was attributable to US bombing over everything else. and regardless, the more recent iraq invasion, collapse, refugee crisis, interventions in yemen, libya, syria, etc- are far more relevant to who is way loving worse as far as killing, maiming, starving, and upending lives

Hairy Marionette posted:

Perhaps, but under the control of China people felt the need to set themselves on fire.


China did Maoism once, they can do similar again.

THS posted:

youre saying china and the US are equivalent, i am saying they are not. we disagree on this, i do not see the same value in both-sidesing global politics considering the relative (and absolute) bodycounts, i also see less value in both-sidesing it in an english speaking forum in a cultural atmosphere where China Evil is an opinion i can get by throwing a dart at any random website, in the middle of a concerted anti-China propaganda campaign

Hairy Marionette posted:

China did Maoism once, they can do similar again.

cagliostr0 posted:

Free Tibet