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Pentecoastal Elites posted:does this constitute "good faith discussion"? I mean, I was asking out of genuine curiosity. How is "close the camps, release everyone" a solution? Release everyone... where?
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Mar 31, 2021 17:58
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I mean, I was asking out of genuine curiosity. How is "close the camps, release everyone" a solution? Release everyone... where? To wherever they were going before ice snatched them. As a solution, it closes the camps ✅
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Mar 31, 2021 18:02
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Reality Protester posted:To wherever they were going before ice snatched them. As a solution, it closes the camps ✅ So into the texas desert without a plan, as children, with no actual idea on what they are doing. Children alone yes this is a great plan that won't lead to pictures of kids dead in a loving desert, or more children abduction then ever recorded in the history of the us as human traffickers pick them up by carloads. Please actually provide plans besides saying close the camps like that is the end all be all to a massive crisis that was done intentionally by trump in office for 4 years and now the current president on month 3 is trying to fix
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Mar 31, 2021 18:07
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:You want refugees released into the Texas desert? How about seeing if they have relatives or friends in the US they can stay with? How about finding actually humane accommodations (as opposed to taking the inhumane ones we were using already and slapping fresh paint on them) and taking pains to ensure the staff that aid the refugees aren’t psychotic ICE/DHS meatheads? Have we tried, say, asking the refugees what they’d prefer to do? (I somehow doubt they prefer to be crammed together in plexiglass boxes.) Just spitballing, as I am merely a justice-minded opinionated goon and not an immigration lawyer or activist, but I am sure there are a range of things that can be done by our government between “detain them in unsafe conditions during an ongoing pandemic” or “kick them out into a literal desert”. Perhaps you could put forth a suggestion of your own? I think the idea that we need to be able to come up with a bullet-point list of suggestions for what the loving US government can do about immigration before we can even talk about it is ludicrous anyway, but if you’re going to request it from others at least have your own list to propose misadventurous fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 18:07
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I mean, I was asking out of genuine curiosity. How is "close the camps, release everyone" a solution? Release everyone... where? Oh! Genuine curiosity, well then in that case I'm happy to help. Just weird that you would phrase it in such a way that it immediately seems like a pissy bad faith remark. Very odd! Oh well! I suppose you must have missed the multiple times people have pointed to the suggestions of various immigrant rights groups what have been fighting against the camps since, well, Obama. Or that Biden himself said that "we'll close the camps because we don't need them" and that they don't do anything -- something posted on page 14 of this very thread. That's okay, there's a lot going on. Everything happens all the time nowadays, you know what I mean? Haha! Anyway, as it turns out this is something that people have been talking about and making action plans about for years, and I'm sure that any of these groups could give you a much better thought out and laid out plan than I possibly could. Personally I would just "close the camps, release everyone" by getting an army of aid workers, lawyers, and immigrant rights activists down there immediately, getting the children out of cages and into -- I don't know, say hotel rooms where they've got the freely available help of personal and legal advisors to find family or bring their families over the border, and give everyone involved citizenship. Maybe that would work. I don't know! What I do know is that this should be handled like the profound humanitarian crisis it is, that it needs to be resolved now, not later because "it's complicated" and "where will they go???". These are problems that can and should be solved. There are people and resources that can solve these problems and be used to that end. This was the case during Obama, and it was the case during Trump, and it is the case during Biden. "it's really hard" is not an acceptable excuse for allowing concentration camps to exist on our southern border. It's not an excuse to put and keep children in cages. Joe Biden didn't learn about this problem in January. Every minute that goes by without this getting solved -- not addressed, not considered -- is an absolute failure on the part of the administration.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:16
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"Concentration camp" is specifically designed to evoke a particular, enraging emotional response that none of the other terms do. Randomly tossing it into an otherwise normal post is a good way to make people angrier at a very low cost (generally, to match the poster's own anger), and if nobody is allowed to rebut it then the cost is even lower. This is, again, a form of tone policing. "If you don't like how fragile people are to term, use something that caters more to their sensibilities" The same way "If you don't like how people react to 'abolish the police" or "If you don't like how people react to the term 'rape cutlure', stop using it" do. It's a derailment tactic, where people get very upset at a term to the point where discussion must resolve around it. You see it in police reform discussions where "defund" gets debated for pages but someone puts up an efforpost about concrete things that can be done and what hasn't worked and it's mostly ignored. Though I don't know how you can avoid this without banning debate of the term altogether and just telling people to stop complaining about terminology, which you said you weren't going to do.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:16
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misadventurous posted:How about seeing if they have relatives or friends in the US they can stay with? How about finding actually humane accommodations (as opposed to taking the inhumane ones we were using already and slapping fresh paint on them) and taking pains to ensure the staff that aid the refugees aren’t psychotic ICE/DHS meatheads? Have we tried, say, asking the refugees what they’d prefer to do? (I somehow doubt they prefer to be crammed together in plexiglass boxes.) Just spitballing, as I am merely a justice-minded opinionated goon and not an immigration lawyer or activist, but I am sure there are a range of things that can be done by our government between “detain them in unsafe conditions during an ongoing pandemic” or “kick them out into a literal desert”. Perhaps you could put forth a suggestion of your own? I think the idea that we need to be able to come up with a bullet-point list of suggestions for what the loving US government can do about immigration before we can even talk about it is ludicrous anyway, but if you’re going to request it from others at least have your own list to propose OK I'll goddamn bite your bullshit from cspam to own the libs They have been attempting humane accommodations, ie using empty hotels and the refugee centers ICE is not running the refugee centers and they have been under the care of another org Many of the refugees are children that don't speak english, dont know anyone in the US and came here due to their parents to escape the wars and fighting and purges in their respective countries. Its hard to find if they have family that live here, especially when Trump literally made it his duty to remove anyone that was undocumented and many are somewhat hidden because they still believe ICE will come to throw them out at any second However, you tell me any idea that can handle an influx of 500k people and not be falling apart as a system intentionally sabotaged for four years is being remade from the ground up. You explain what you think is actually possible in less then 2 months. Otherwise its the same screaming to try and own forums enemies that has been the forefront in this thread instead of actually discussing the issues at the border and possible solutions or things that could have been done better. It literally would be better for this thread as a whole to have actual ideas to discuss on what could be done, what could happening right now to fix it, and what failed to happen then screaming about what kind of camp is what. Literally all this thread is is people screaming about what to call a camp, and not about what could be done right now by the government or even themselves to potentially mitigate this issue humanely. And that is the major issue with DnD, its not actually talking or trying to find solutions its just morons screaming at eachother to try and own perceived enemies. Post actual sources and solutions and not gotcha owns. just going release the children is goddamn stupid and useless
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Mar 31, 2021 18:22
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misadventurous posted:How about seeing if they have relatives or friends in the US they can stay with? How about finding actually humane accommodations (as opposed to taking the inhumane ones we were using already and slapping fresh paint on them) and taking pains to ensure the staff that aid the refugees aren’t psychotic ICE/DHS meatheads? Have we tried, say, asking the refugees what they’d prefer to do? (I somehow doubt they prefer to be crammed together in plexiglass boxes.) Just spitballing, as I am merely a justice-minded opinionated goon and not an immigration lawyer or activist, but I am sure there are a range of things that can be done by our government between “detain them in unsafe conditions during an ongoing pandemic” or “kick them out into a literal desert”. Perhaps you could put forth a suggestion of your own? I think the idea that we need to be able to come up with a bullet-point list of suggestions for what the loving US government can do about immigration before we can even talk about it is ludicrous anyway, but if you’re going to request it from others at least have your own list to propose This is literally what they are trying to do. Most of the kids come with a phone number of a relative. They are not being held by "ICE/DHS meatheads" for more than a couple (horrifically overcrowded) days. They are sent to (also overcrowded) Office of Refugee Resettlement camps while their relatives are contacted. What yo'ure describing is how the system is currently set up. The problem is we don't have the capacity in terms of facilities and staff to process kids through to their families fast enough, so the conditions are unsafe and overcrowded. The stopgap solution is to make more space available, which is what they are doing. That is just a bandaid though, what we need is comprehensive immigration reform and a massive investment in larger, humane, transparently operated facilities because the influx of migrants is not going to disappear (the horrific conditions in their home countries aren't going to resolve anytime soon). The sports stadiums and such they're opening as temporary camps aren't a long-term fix, they're an ugly stopgap.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:23
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Fritz the Horse posted:They are not being held by "ICE/DHS meatheads" for more than a couple (horrifically overcrowded) days. Wrong. https://twitter.com/NicoleSganga/status/1376983694423027712
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Mar 31, 2021 18:25
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UCS Hellmaker posted:
Ok. Close the camps, release everyone. Do not release them to the desert. Release them to a big city. quote:Post actual sources and solutions and not gotcha owns. just going release the children is goddamn stupid and useless I thought you wanted solutions (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2021 18:29
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Literally all this thread is is people screaming about what to call a camp, and not about what could be done right now by the government or even themselves to potentially mitigate this issue humanely. Hang on there, it's also about trying to deduce if the conditions present in the camps are as horrific as photos portray, or if it is just a trick of a lens. BougieBitch posted:Okay, so are you going to address the argument about how you can tell how close or far apart people are based on the photos, cuz so far no one has made even a cursory attempt to explain how that is somehow more good or useful as evidence than actual numbers of people in detention in a particular place in comparison to the rated capacity under pandemic conditions. Eyeballing crowding based on where people are standing in a single snapshot is not useful or broadly indicative. The whole reason I linked to the article about news stories running wide-angle lens photos is because we have spent the whole past year seeing people do this exact thing, and when you add in the fact that "my inauguration was the biggest ever" was the first Trump admin lie I have no idea why people would ever trust a photo to be an accurate reflection of the distance between people. Don't settle for low-value evidence just because you don't have high-value evidence at hand, research and agitate for better reporting standards, more transparency from the admin, and then make a judgment once you have the facts rather than using incomplete evidence to draw low-certainty conclusions.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:31
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You're correct, I was working off last week's (limited) info before that reporting came out over the weekend showing the overcrowding and delays were extremely bad and worse than earlier reports. The staff handling the placement of kids is ORR, though. The process is detained and held by CPB -> ORR camps while matched with host families -> settled with host families. And from the tweet, quote:Senior CBP officials told reporters more than 1200 migrants are processed and waiting to be transferred to HHS facilities. HHS has nowhere to put them. ORR (under HHS) doesn't have space for them. For obvious reasons I don't advocate expanding CBP facilities so it sounds like we need to massively scale up ORR facilities so kids are spending minimum time (in less crowded conditions) in CBP custody and then minimum time with ORR before being settled.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:35
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UCS Hellmaker posted:OK I'll goddamn bite your bullshit from cspam to own the libs If you want to argue that there is literally nothing more Joe Biden could possibly do to resolve the humanitarian crisis of concentration camps full of children at the US border, you can say so, but personally I find that extremely hard to believe. I find especially hard to believe when I'm told this by people who were convinced it was possible to safely and quickly end the camps as recently as December of last year. The short of it is that it's not on any Something Awful poster to come up for a solution for a presidential administration that campaigned on ending this in a safe, quick way and are continuously failing to do so. Biden wasn't kept in a soundproof box for the last Moreover people ITT trying to "find a plan" isn't going to do anything or help anyone, no matter how good the plan is. What do you think is going to happen? If we work out a solution here we can write a letter to the Biden administration and, by golly, he'll get 'er done? That's an insane thing to think. Certainly seems, to me, like less of a pressing issue than people convincing themselves that they can relax and don't need to take any future political action as long as Joe and the Blue Team are in charge. Why bother agitating, getting involved with an immigrant rights org, or donating if good ole Joe is doing everything that could possibly be done? Kick back, stretch out! Crack a cold one, it's all under control! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2021 18:36
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Certainly seems, to me, like less of a pressing issue than people convincing themselves that they can relax and don't need to take any future political action as long as Joe and the Blue Team are in charge. Why bother agitating, getting involved with an immigrant rights org, or donating if good ole Joe is doing everything that could possibly be done? Kick back, stretch out! Crack a cold one, it's all under control! You don't know what people in this thread are and are not doing. Why fling these types of accusations? Who is posting in bad faith now?
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Mar 31, 2021 18:38
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:You don't know what people in this thread are and are not doing. Why fling these types of accusations? Who is posting in bad faith now? I don't count making some basic assumptions about the power of those in the thread as posting in bad faith but if it is, so far I count Pentecoastal Elites and BougieBitch  BougieBitch posted:no one here is in a position to do anything about the conditions
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Mar 31, 2021 18:45
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UCS Hellmaker posted:So into the texas desert without a plan, as children, with no actual idea on what they are doing. This is such bad faith bullshit. For starters, most children aren't detained in the desert. Second, most children aren't crossing the border alone. Third, the indefinite detention of children is a fairly recent phenomenon. There is no conversation to be had with someone who thinks the options are either putting children in cages or letting them die alone in the desert.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:45
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joepinetree posted:This is such bad faith bullshit. For starters, most children aren't detained in the desert. Second, most children aren't crossing the border alone. Third, the indefinite detention of children is a fairly recent phenomenon. There's no argument to be had with someone that doesn't want to or is willing to understand that the world is not a black and white board with good and evil on it. Instead of just spewing bullshit from twitter and outrage actually provide solutions. There is more to the situation then a 140 character tweet. You can try and paint others in order to justify why you should be able to own them, but it still does not mean that you understand poo poo about what is actually going on or anything being out into place inorder to solve the solution. Same as the person saying just release them into a city! Great loving idea! Release them into a city with no options, no place to stay, where homeless issue are typically rampant! Nothing being said here is actual ideas it's the same outrage bs that has been going from day one. Fritz is the only one actually attempting to talk about things and sourcing poo poo.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:56
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Ruzihm posted:Hang on there, it's also about trying to deduce if the conditions present in the camps are as horrific as photos portray, or if it is just a trick of a lens. The point of that quote is that a photo alone is useless, which is totally accurate. As soon as we had tweets with actual numbers people moved on to using those, because they provide substantially more evidence, are substantially less subjective, and provide a much more useful baseline for conversation. No one has reposted the initial pictures since then, because they were a BAD SOURCE and we now have a GOOD SOURCE. You can make the right argument on the basis of bad sources, but it's a lot less likely than if you want a few days for the actual facts and THEN build an argument. Edit: Ruzihm posted:I don't count making some basic assumptions about the power of those in the thread as posting in bad faith but if it is, so far I count Pentecoastal Elites and BougieBitch I can't do anything about the camps, but I am dedicating like 20 hrs a week to an org that provides services primarily to local undocumented immigrant communities. There's a difference between "I can't solve this problem" and "nothing can be done" BougieBitch fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 18:59
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Fritz the Horse posted:This is literally what they are trying to do. Most of the kids come with a phone number of a relative. They are not being held by "ICE/DHS meatheads" for more than a couple (horrifically overcrowded) days. They are sent to (also overcrowded) Office of Refugee Resettlement camps while their relatives are contacted. Lester Shy beat me to it but there is evidence that they are being held much longer. I think your third paragraph is entirely correct, though it’s still infuriating that conditions have changed so little so far since the last admin and I’m highly skeptical of the idea that we were unprepared for this. With many of the policies the admin claims to be working on right now, there is a frustrating element of “we just have to see what they do next” and I don’t know whether to blame a lack of transparency or a lack of preparedness. UCS Hellmaker posted:OK I'll goddamn bite your bullshit from cspam to own the libs You can piss right off with the implication that I’m only invested in this because of some dumbshit rivalry between subforums. I bolded the one paragraph relevantly responding to what I asked, which is effectively the same thing Fritz said (much more politely). The rest is simply bizarre projection about internet forum meta poo poo that I could give a flying gently caress about. As I already wrote to Thorn Wishes Talon, I think it’s ridiculous to expect concrete solutions from any of us, but if that is your expectation, then I expect you to post up some ideas too. Likewise, if you’re going to get so het up about me “screaming” and “owning forums enemies” then at least offer some substance besides a bunch of screaming about owning forums enemies. misadventurous fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 19:02
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Jesus, the US is gonna have those camps until the next republican strong man proposes a more drastic solution to the issue, right?
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Mar 31, 2021 19:04
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i asked this earlier in the thread, but do we know what % of children are unaccompanied, what % "become" unaccompanied because adults are deported (this should be 0), and what % are with families?
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Mar 31, 2021 19:06
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UCS Hellmaker posted:There's no argument to be had with someone that doesn't want to or is willing to understand that the world is not a black and white board with good and evil on it. Instead of just spewing bullshit from twitter and outrage actually provide solutions. There is more to the situation then a 140 character tweet. In terms of painting the world as black and white, i would suggest that saying that it's either camps or letting children die in the desert is pretty grotesque and dishonest. I have no patience for whatever meta bullshit you want to engage in. If you think "i don't understand poo poo about what is actually going on," I suggest you click on the little question mark under my name there to see how long and fequently I've participated in this thread, and whether my opinions of anything has changed because the party in power changed. Virtually all of these camps, concentration or otherwise, are less than 30 years old. The idea that it is some sort of intractable problem that there is no solution to is ridiculous. There are literally dozens of alternatives to having these camps. Here's a 2015 document (updated in 2019): https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/The-Real-Alternatives-to-Detention-June-2019-FINAL-v-2.pdf joepinetree fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 19:11
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UCS Hellmaker posted:There's no argument to be had with someone that doesn't want to or is willing to understand that the world is not a black and white board with good and evil on it. Instead of just spewing bullshit from twitter and outrage actually provide solutions. There is more to the situation then a 140 character tweet. People don't need to to provide you a source to be upset at concentration camps on our border. The Democrats can't agree to pay us a living wage or provide healthcare, ignoring the fact you would need to convince 10 Republicans to agree to immigration reform how in the gently caress would you convince Manchin or Sinema? I also doubt the 80 year old white guy who said segregationists are good people is seriously commited to reversing the trend of 250 years of US immigration policy.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:12
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Personally, I believe concentrating refugees in camps where they are crowded in "enclosures they can't escape from" and have to sleep in foil tarps is wrong and should stop immediately. No matter who does it or whether they inherited it from someone else (or if they started it, then handed it off to someone, then re inherited it, as is the case in the USA). I understand this is a radical position to some, who would like to slightly reduce the brutality of these camps instead. To that I say - I disagree.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:13
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misadventurous posted:Lester Shy beat me to it but there is evidence that they are being held much longer. I think your third paragraph is entirely correct, though it’s still infuriating that conditions have changed so little so far since the last admin and I’m highly skeptical of the idea that we were unprepared for this. With many of the policies the admin claims to be working on right now, there is a frustrating element of “we just have to see what they do next” and I don’t know whether to blame a lack of transparency or a lack of preparedness. "Some have been here for 15 days" is a really, REALLY far cry from "indefinite detention" which is what various people have tried to frame it as. It's clear that things are completely insufficient, legally indefensible, and obviously a human rights disaster, but they started letting people in two months ago and if there were people who had been there for two months the reporters would have said as much. People are not being held in these lovely conditions because of malice, but because, as the quoted tweet noted, there currently aren't any medium-term facilities with openings, though we have had at least 3 or 4 open in the last 2 or 3 weeks. We also had an article within the last week about how the Biden admin literally tried to start opening more facilities during the transition period but couldn't get access to any of the info or any of the resources to actually make recommendations or propose possible contracts. The lack of preparedness is a direct result of deliberate sabotage on the part of the Trump-era leadership, and the appointment of various replacements across all agencies (ICE, CBP, CDC, FDA, etc) has been progressing in fits and starts. I think it's malpractice on the part of the administration to not have prioritized the various border-associated agencies for these crackdowns, but I also have no idea what kind of paperwork requirements there would be to fire all the shitheads or to what degree we could replace them in a timely manner, which is obviously also a concern given the urgency of this crisis.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:16
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BougieBitch posted:I can't do anything about the camps, but I am dedicating like 20 hrs a week to an org that provides services primarily to local undocumented immigrant communities. Speaking of JPT's excellent posts, I'm curious if we can get a followup on this Neurolimal posted:Hello, I would appreciate it if you could respond to Joepinetree's excellent post in response to yours on the last page: Crosby B. Alfred posted:I saw it, I'm still thinking about it and don't have a reply just yet. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 19:16
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joepinetree posted:In terms of painting the world as black and white, i would suggest that saying that suggesting that it's either camps or letting children die in the desert is pretty grotesque and dishonest. That's true, there is in fact a third option, according to that poster, which is "release them into cities."
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Mar 31, 2021 19:24
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:That's true, there is in fact a third option, according to that poster, which is "release them into cities." I literally posted a PDF with several alternatives. Why do we have to keep this charade that we have to keep the children in overcrowded detention centers because the alternatives are somehow worse?
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Mar 31, 2021 19:27
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Btw ICE currently is doing the 'lets just release them' thing with a decent number of people and is just dropping people who don't speak the language and with nothing off in random cities and according to the groups that exist to help get these people shelter and on their feet, it is extremely not the way to be handling things. (and yes they've been doing it for a long time, albeit it apparently picked up a bunch once several major cities refused to cooperate with ICE and Trump retaliated by threatening to and then following through on dumping immigrants into liberal/sanctuary cities because he thought that was a punishment or something). Afaict, what people need are services and resources and a stable living situation to get them on their feet, not being literally dumped into downtown LA at 5pm with nothing. joepinetree posted:I literally posted a PDF with several alternatives. Why do we have to keep this charade that we have to keep the children in overcrowded detention centers because the alternatives are somehow worse? yeah the release them into cities isn't even an alternative, as it's active policy in some cases and is very often being done in a way specifically intended to be as disruptive and lovely as possible Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 19:28
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Nosfereefer posted:Jesus, the US is gonna have those camps until the next republican strong man proposes a more drastic solution to the issue, right? Yeah, aside from the ongoing human rights abuses happening there, this is the main reason they need to be closed and razed to the ground. Even if we generously assume Obama/Biden had the best possible intentions, building and maintaining these institutions that at best require a benevolent philosopher king to administer them humanely, knowing that someday you'll be flipping a coin to hand them off to an outright fascist, is insane.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:32
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BougieBitch posted:"Some have been here for 15 days" is a really, REALLY far cry from "indefinite detention" which is what various people have tried to frame it as. If even the people detaining do not know when the detainees will be moved then it is indefinite by definition.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:34
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Perhaps we could just stop putting additional people into the camps or kidnapping them when they cross the imaginary line in the sand? Surely that would help to relieve the pressure within the concentration camps? But again, ICE and CBP will not stop doing that so I guess it's back to square one. How does one exactly force these institutions to stop kidnapping people for crossing the border? edit: To expand on that, surely there aren't four month old babies just crossing the Rio Grande on their own, they're coming across with people, so no, I'm not advocating on just letting children wander aimlessly across the Mojave.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:39
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joepinetree posted:I literally posted a PDF with several alternatives. Why do we have to keep this charade that we have to keep the children in overcrowded detention centers because the alternatives are somehow worse? Releasing them into cities where they'll quickly be starving and homeless with no real employment prospects apart from sex work. They won't be getting education, healthcare or anything like that. They have no supervision or protection from anyone who would want to harm them and a homeless person with no ties to the area has a target painted right on them. Consequences don't magically go away if you feel you have a pure enough heart.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:41
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Lester Shy posted:Yeah, aside from the ongoing human rights abuses happening there, this is the main reason they need to be closed and razed to the ground. Even if we generously assume Obama/Biden had the best possible intentions, building and maintaining these institutions that at best require a benevolent philosopher king to administer them humanely, knowing that someday you'll be flipping a coin to hand them off to an outright fascist, is insane. Are there any groups or organizations that can be supported financially or otherwise by non-US citizens to pressure the government or at least aid the prisoners somehow? Watching this unfold from the outside is grim as gently caress, and I'm sure as hell the EU won't stick their neck out with sanctions, much less China or Russia.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:44
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Releasing them into cities where they'll quickly be starving and homeless with no real employment prospects apart from sex work. They won't be getting education, healthcare or anything like that. They have no supervision or protection from anyone who would want to harm them and a homeless person with no ties to the area has a target painted right on them. Did you quote the wrong poster here? Because otherwise it's very clear you didn't actually read the PDF.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:45
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joepinetree posted:This is such bad faith bullshit. For starters, most children aren't detained in the desert. Second, most children aren't crossing the border alone. Third, the indefinite detention of children is a fairly recent phenomenon. Do you have any numbers on this? I see a great deal of talk about the surge in unaccompanied minors is that not real or even with the surge is it somehow still a very small %? Even if it's a small number are you suggesting we just dump the unaccompanied children at the border? Should there be an age cutoff or survival training or something?
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Mar 31, 2021 19:48
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Releasing them into cities where they'll quickly be starving and homeless with no real employment prospects apart from sex work. They won't be getting education, healthcare or anything like that. They have no supervision or protection from anyone who would want to harm them and a homeless person with no ties to the area has a target painted right on them. Hey just lettin you know I think you clicked the wrong link when you went to read the pdf.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:48
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Jaxyon posted:Did you quote the wrong poster here? I'm talking specifically about children who need some sort of guardian. Families are a very different situation and to the extent that the local community can support them they can go through hearings just fine. Unaccompanied minors absolutely not.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:51
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1337JiveTurkey posted:I'm talking specifically about children who need some sort of guardian. Families are a very different situation and to the extent that the local community can support them they can go through hearings just fine. Unaccompanied minors absolutely not. Who are you replying to and what are you replying to in the PDF? Please be specific because the post I quoted bears no response to anything I can see.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:05
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Jaxyon posted:Who are you replying to and what are you replying to in the PDF? The PDF is about families. The post I’m responding to says that the PDF details alternates to keeping children in camps which it absolutely doesn’t because it’s about families where the children have one or more guardians and the government isn’t acting in loco parentis.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:12
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