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We’re going to find out in S33D that Kira really did die back when the Strike exploded, and since then we’ve been following mere sentient mix of nuclear radiation and shards of Phase-Shift Armor that only thinks its Kira Yamato. This will be used to explain Kira’s shift in characterization from SEED to Destiny.
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May 26, 2021 00:45
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| # ? May 11, 2024 19:37 |
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i hope whatever it is isn't good so i can continue to not have to watch seed
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May 26, 2021 01:49
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i take it back i hope it's good, we need more good gundams. it would just be inconvenient for me if it ended up being something i actually want to watch
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May 26, 2021 01:50
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seed is mostly fine, seed destiny is a total mess but given the writer was literally dying im willing to cut it some slack
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May 26, 2021 01:52
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The thing is I don't super want to watch 50 episodes of "mostly fine" if I'm being honest
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May 26, 2021 02:36
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Give me Shinn's Counter-Attack.
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May 26, 2021 02:44
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Stairmaster posted:i wonder how many women will be brutally microwaved this time I can't remember did Destiny have any of that kind of gross poo poo?
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May 26, 2021 02:53
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I'm a few days out of my Seed rewatch and I am still kind of bothered by how gratuitous Natarle's death was. I'm probably really overthinking it but came off weirdly mean and like punishment for never being fully on team Kira and even if that wasn't the intention it was still unpleasantly over the top. Exploding goo balls were also ott with both the Alaska sequence and Genesis but I don't know, Natarle's stuff just came off worse.
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May 26, 2021 02:58
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ninjewtsu posted:The thing is I don't super want to watch 50 episodes of "mostly fine" if I'm being honest Yeah I can't do fifty episodes of mediocre anymore. They've gotta hit at least X or ZZ quality for me to want to commit
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May 26, 2021 03:05
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Just rewatched F91 and I've come to the conclusion it's unironically good.
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May 26, 2021 03:05
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It's gorgeous, has good music, and great designs. Sure the story is a mess but so is half the movies made nowadays.
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May 26, 2021 03:06
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They really like spinning the "camera" in F91. It's an extension from the panoramic cockpit shots in CCA but in F91 it starts getting silly when whole scenes are just spinning circles around Seabook or other pilots while they talk. Just one of the quirks of the movie.
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May 26, 2021 03:09
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Gaius Marius posted:It's gorgeous, has good music, and great designs. Sure the story is a mess but so is half the movies made nowadays. The thing with F91 is that it opens strong. For the first act, until they leave Frontier IV and maybe a bit after, it's a pretty solid version of a basic Gundam plot. But then it goes into overdrive, with scenes written as part of multi-episode subplots just tearing by in minutes, with characters dead before you even know what their deal is. It's a mess. That said, it's a mess that manages to come together to an extent at the ending, so that's something. As for Gundam SEED, I only watched 5 episodes before switching to the movies, so I can't give a complete verdict, but what I saw wasn't very good. And the opening episodes are actively bad, so it's a pretty rough start.
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May 26, 2021 04:09
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if f91 had been three hours long it'd be the greatest gundam property of all time or look a lot worse
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May 26, 2021 04:14
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https://twitter.com/sixdettmar/status/1397387026270281731?s=20
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May 26, 2021 04:33
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chiasaur11 posted:The thing with F91 is that it opens strong. For the first act, until they leave Frontier IV and maybe a bit after, it's a pretty solid version of a basic Gundam plot. But then it goes into overdrive, with scenes written as part of multi-episode subplots just tearing by in minutes, with characters dead before you even know what their deal is. It's a mess. For what it's worth I did watch F91 with a buddy whose never seen a single gundam and he enjoyed it even if he didn't know what the hell was going on.
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May 26, 2021 04:57
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Since it's approaching it's 20th anniversary, it would make sense for Cosmic Era to start getting the prestige style treatment Universal Century has been on since Unicorn. CE had excessively fast technological advancement and Destiny ended with all the pieces in awkward places for future story telling as it stood, but I don't think it's insurmountable. I'd actually only recently thought about how UC Next 100 would eventually have to go beyond Victory and looked up side material stuff to see if anything was happening around that period and didn't realize Crossbone had actually gotten there - the core concept of it's final story sounded like a genuinely interesting status quo (even if it was pretty depressing) which makes it a real shame that it's uh, Crossbone doing it.
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May 26, 2021 05:04
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Seemlar posted:Since it's approaching it's 20th anniversary. What in the gently caress.
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May 26, 2021 05:08
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Can't they just make destiny not canon? It's not like anyone who actually buys gunpla for that show would care
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May 26, 2021 05:25
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is destiny really unpopular? i dunno why they would choose to do that even if it sucked
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May 26, 2021 05:47
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Destiny did mostly fine - not as well as SEED, but not a garbage fire. It has an outsized reputation as some sort of reviled failure because it's a pretty bad show and the western fanbase tends to project "failure disaster" onto basically every show they don't like.
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May 26, 2021 06:40
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Kanos posted:Destiny did mostly fine - not as well as SEED, but not a garbage fire. It has an outsized reputation as some sort of reviled failure because it's a pretty bad show and the western fanbase tends to project "failure disaster" onto basically every show they don't like. Looking at official data, it's... mixed. On the one end, it clearly wasn't a failure. The DVD sales were excellent, the ratings peaks were the highest since ZZ (in a much more competitive television environment) and in the big Gundam poll, Shinn was in a respectable 27th place (below Domon and Shiro, above Garrod and Loran). It also apparently won its share of industry prizes, so reception at the time it was airing was, on average, positive. On the other end, (or perhaps, even so?) there's clear signs of a decline. Despite starting with better ratings than SEED, the average ratings were lower. The series is below Turn A in the big Gundam poll at 14th place, right in the messy territory around X, Build Fighters, and F91, a stark contrast from the original's comfy third place position. And Gunpla sales cratered in comparison to SEED, with a drop of over three billion yen year over year. Destiny isn't some much loathed pariah series in Japan, but it's not a huge mainstream hit like SEED, either. And Bandai's response to its reception is telling. Prior to Destiny, SEED's CE was the potential next UC, the big center for Gundam going forward. After, it became... another series. Like Wing or 00, it gets tie-in manga, new model kits, mentions and art in every event celebrating all of Gundam. But it's not the star any more. That's the UC, and with Unicorn's smash success (look up the DVD sales some time. They're insane), it's likely to stay that way for the forseeable.
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May 26, 2021 07:24
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Kanos posted:Destiny did mostly fine - not as well as SEED, but not a garbage fire. It has an outsized reputation as some sort of reviled failure because it's a pretty bad show and the western fanbase tends to project "failure disaster" onto basically every show they don't like.
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May 26, 2021 08:40
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There are lots of ways a SEED Destiny sequel could go. Interested enough to keep an eye out, I suppose.
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May 26, 2021 09:40
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Endorph posted:seed is mostly fine, seed destiny is a total mess but given the writer was literally dying im willing to cut it some slack Murosawa wasn't dying during the show as far as I can figure out. She never had cancer as is popularly reported, for one. At least, not according her Japanese Wikipedia article. She had ovarian cysts around about the time of SEED/Destiny, eventually requiring surgery to remove one of her ovaries. The delays in scripts were apparently due to the fact she was dealing with the pain of that, but it's not likely she was dying from it since they're generally not lethal. She died of an aortic dissection more than a decade later (the same way Kentaro Muira recently died), which has nothing to do with cancer or her ovarian cysts. The movie was apparently initially delayed due to her health and recovery following surgery, but it's also unlikely that was ultimately the cause of the movie not going forward since ovarian cysts probably wouldn't cause that kind of long term health degeneration or complications to my knowledge. She may have had some kind of on-going issue related to her heart or something I guess, since both Murosawa and Fukuda basically stepped away from the industry entirely after Destiny. Seemlar posted:I'd actually only recently thought about how UC Next 100 would eventually have to go beyond Victory and looked up side material stuff to see if anything was happening around that period and didn't realize Crossbone had actually gotten there - the core concept of it's final story sounded like a genuinely interesting status quo (even if it was pretty depressing) which makes it a real shame that it's uh, Crossbone doing it. It turns out that final story isn't quite so final, and Hasegawa announced a new series yesterday, Crossbone X-11; though it appears it may be set around the time of Steel 7 with a younger Tobia rather than being a sequel to Dust going off the images released.
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May 26, 2021 11:17
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chiasaur11 posted:Looking at official data, it's... mixed. This is a fair take, but to be honest, I don't know if CE really had the chops to be another UC. The success and popularity of the series was so heavily tied to a very specific cast of characters that I seriously doubt it would have survived an attempt to spin it into a long-running timeline like UC. Most of the big SEED fans aren't really fans of the setting itself, they're fans of Kira and Lacus and Athrun. I have a conspiracy theory that the somewhat troubled production of Destiny and the massive swerve in character focus mid-series indicates that this was realized by someone, be it the suits, Morosawa, Fukuda, or whoever.
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May 26, 2021 13:25
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ninjewtsu posted:is destiny really unpopular? i dunno why they would choose to do that even if it sucked Destiny was in no way a commercial failure. It made Sunrise/Bandai a ton of money riding that Kira/Lacus/Athrun fan train. It is popular as a franchise, I agree powered by the love for those character and suit designs, not because of anything inherent to the setting that people got onboard with. Destiny is a complete, artistic, narrative, everything else failure. It has a few choice unit designs and otherwise it's trash. It makes a point to insult the viewer and undo everything that original SEED accomplished almost out of spite. And then it abandons its interesting protagonist to make him a whiny POS so we can be expected to suck off Kira AGAIN. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 26, 2021 |
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May 26, 2021 15:42
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I wasn't as much in these circles at the time. Did people generally hate Kira this much before Destiny aired?
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May 26, 2021 16:22
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Destiny is a complete, artistic, narrative, everything else failure. It has a few choice unit designs and otherwise it's trash. It makes a point to insult the viewer and undo everything that original SEED accomplished almost out of spite. And then it abandons its interesting protagonist to make him a whiny POS so we can be expected to suck off Kira AGAIN. And they can’t even do that right. The show goes out of its way to show that Kira isn’t actually a very good pilot on his own when he’s forced to use the Strike Rouge to get to space and is dunked on so hard by some grunts that the ship has to tow in the remains of its torso about 30 seconds after he shows up.
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May 26, 2021 16:27
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Ojjeorago posted:And they can’t even do that right. The show goes out of its way to show that Kira isn’t actually a very good pilot on his own when he’s forced to use the Strike Rouge to get to space and is dunked on so hard by some grunts that the ship has to tow in the remains of its torso about 30 seconds after he shows up. The last time the Destiny discussion rolled around I had a think about how you could salvage a better show out of wasted opportunity, and one thought was Morgenroete should have rebuilt the Freedom after Shin defeated Kira, but with the ability to mount Striker Packs. Now the name 'Strike Freedom' actually makes sense, thematically it brings Kira full circle into a position where he can regain his purpose, and he would actually have to earn victory instead of just magically shooting the weapons out of everyone else's hands. It also inverts Shin going from the multi-mode Impulse to the all-in-one Destiny, which better positions them as opposing protagonists. Caphi posted:I wasn't as much in these circles at the time. Did people generally hate Kira this much before Destiny aired? I think people were ambivalent at worst about Kira before Destiny, the general opinion only turned sour after things like the re-releases retconning Kira killing Tolle in justifiable self-defence to Tolle actively skewering himself on the Strike's sword, muscling Shin out of his own show, and winning battles with the twin powers of stock animation and an aimbot. Swapping packs on the fly and adjusting quickly to conditions like shifting desert sands was good and fun to watch!  This isn't, especially when the exact footage shows up every other episode.
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May 26, 2021 17:27
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Overall I just find Kira to be a really frustraiting character. I don't hate him but I do think Seed's tendency to make him right and pull some very abrupt character changes definitely made him a character I wasn't super in to. The characters that surround him and how they interact with Kira are a lot more interesting to me. Like Kira's whole relationship with Flay is intensely weird but it works for me because it's has Kira failing and it's good foil to his relationship with Lacus. That kind of messy drama is a lot more appealing to me, for good and trashy reasons, than Kira beam spamming peace across the galaxy.
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May 26, 2021 17:54
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jackhunter64 posted:I think people were ambivalent at worst about Kira before Destiny, the general opinion only turned sour after things like the re-releases retconning Kira killing Tolle in justifiable self-defence to Tolle actively skewering himself on the Strike's sword, muscling Shin out of his own show, and winning battles with the twin powers of stock animation and an aimbot. Swapping packs on the fly and adjusting quickly to conditions like shifting desert sands was good and fun to watch! Nicol. Athrun killed Tolle.
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May 26, 2021 18:09
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jackhunter64 posted:The last time the Destiny discussion rolled around I had a think about how you could salvage a better show out of wasted opportunity, and one thought was Morgenroete should have rebuilt the Freedom after Shin defeated Kira, but with the ability to mount Striker Packs. Now the name 'Strike Freedom' actually makes sense, thematically it brings Kira full circle into a position where he can regain his purpose, and he would actually have to earn victory instead of just magically shooting the weapons out of everyone else's hands. It also inverts Shin going from the multi-mode Impulse to the all-in-one Destiny, which better positions them as opposing protagonists. I mean, if that's what the japanese audience wants? Look at how people rave over the mobile suit fights in The Origin, when they're all just one sided turkey shoots. The audience doesn't want stakes or the threat of the heroes losing, they want to see them win easily with no trouble.
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May 26, 2021 18:22
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Destiny was in no way a commercial failure. It made Sunrise/Bandai a ton of money riding that Kira/Lacus/Athrun fan train. It is popular as a franchise, I agree powered by the love for those character and suit designs, not because of anything inherent to the setting that people got onboard with. I'm not going to be The Big Destiny Defender because I will freely acknowledge that the show is ultimately not good, but I really don't think Destiny rates this harsh of a criticism. It has a lot of positive points - the opening act of the show(up through Break The World) is one of the stronger and more engaging opening acts in the Gundam franchise IMO, the new cast has a lot of potential and is good and entertaining up until the back 20 episodes of the series where none of them get any screen time anymore, and the show occasionally has some flashes of choreographic brilliance in fights like the Lohengrin Gate(the Minerva crew vs the Gells-Ghe) or Operation Angel Down(Impulse vs Freedom). There's a lot of actually worthwhile stuff in there, which is more than you can say about a lot of anime productions! It just falls apart as a complete product and the final act and climax are pretty much completely terrible. It also doesn't really "undo" anything that SEED accomplished. One of the biggest problems with Destiny is, in fact, that it *doesn't* challenge things that SEED established - Destiny Kira is functionally the same as SEED Finale Kira despite Rau giving his principles an rear end beating, Lacus is still the flawless political mastermind who is 100% right in all of her assumptions, and the one major returning character who uses his agency to try to change, Athrun, basically beclowns himself for the entire series on a nearly constant basis until he settles down into being Kira's second banana again. The old cast is boring and annoying to have around specifically because they don't change or evolve or have arcs(beyond Athrun, whose arc is "be stupid and indecisive until returning to the Archangel"). Ojjeorago posted:And they can’t even do that right. The show goes out of its way to show that Kira isn’t actually a very good pilot on his own when he’s forced to use the Strike Rouge to get to space and is dunked on so hard by some grunts that the ship has to tow in the remains of its torso about 30 seconds after he shows up. I don't really think "Kira is a bad pilot carried by his unit" holds a lot of water. Kira spends the first half of the show dunking on anyone and everyone he meets with the Freedom, a suit which itself is already technologically behind the times and is primarily only special by Destiny tech standards due to its nuclear reactor(which is much less of an issue in Destiny because we basically never see suits run into constant power issues in combat like we did in SEED due to improved battery technology). Kira only ultimately loses the Freedom when he fights Shinn(who is a prodigy-level pilot) piloting the Impulse(a unit tailor made to manhandle Kira's fighting style by being functionally unstoppable unless you disable the pilot) after Shinn deliberately studied and planned specifically how to beat him. Destiny's technological progression is such an insane leap forward compared to early SEED that this is really easily put down to the Strike Rouge being hopelessly and completely outmatched by Destiny grunts. Even Amuro would get smoked if you put him in the equivalent of the RX-78 and told him to fight Geara Dogas. Nobody really blames Amuro for being horribly outmatched when he pilots the ReGZ against Char and Gyunei.
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May 26, 2021 18:36
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on the other hand, I still think amuro could have won that fight.
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May 26, 2021 18:46
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Stairmaster posted:on the other hand, I still think amuro could have won that fight. I mean he won (or at least got a tie in) a fight using an unarmed cargo shuttle, so I can't disagree.
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May 26, 2021 18:50
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jackhunter64 posted:Swapping packs on the fly and adjusting quickly to conditions like shifting desert sands was good and fun to watch! Yeah! Compare Kira's "stare blankly as you see the lock-on indicators happen" big move and the equivalent thing in Macross Frontier where Alto and Ozma have their eyes dart around everywhere as they look at each target.  It's not incredible and they both end up at a mech shooting a bunch of stuff everywhere, but one is a guy just staring and the other is someone at least doing something that might at least hint at the pilots having some skill or talent for their big move.
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May 26, 2021 19:53
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This goes back to my earlier assertion: Japanese audiences don't want interesting fights or stakes, they just want the unbeatable heroes winning with big explosions. Look at SEED Destiny, look at The Origin (especially the moon fight), look at Sword Art Online. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 26, 2021 20:10
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Fivemarks posted:This goes back to my earlier assertion: Japanese audiences don't want interesting fights or stakes, they just want the unbeatable heroes winning with big explosions. Look at SEED Destiny, look at The Origin (especially the moon fight), look at Sword Art Online. There are loads of ways to express this point without painting an entire country and/or ethnicity with a bad taste brush.
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May 26, 2021 20:16
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Caphi posted:There are loads of ways to express this point without painting an entire country and/or ethnicity with a bad taste brush. Agreed
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May 26, 2021 20:20
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