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nine-gear crow posted:This is why NuTrek upsets them so much, because women and non-white people are in charge now, and old rear end grandpa Captain Picard is now surrounded by and talked down to by those people and they don't like it. It upsets me because it sucks, how about that
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Jun 3, 2021 00:41
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The 2016 Ghostbusters didn’t suck because it starred women instead of white men, it sucked because it was a terribly written, directed, produced, etc. Same goes for New Trek Did DISCO season 3 wind up having 21 producers also or was that just a season 2 thing?
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Jun 3, 2021 00:53
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jeeves posted:The 2016 Ghostbusters didn’t suck because it starred women instead of white men, it sucked because it was a terribly written, directed, produced, etc.
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Jun 3, 2021 00:58
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A random episode mini-review, for VOY: Demon, the one where they go to the demon-class planet and the silver blood stuff starts making duplicates. I'm going to completely ignore the aliens (and Neelix's sleepover party) and focus entirely on the deuterium thing. The episode starts with them critically short of it, and so they desperately need to find more in the immediate area because they can't get very far on what's left. ...How the hell did they get into this situation in the first place? They must have deliberately gone off into the middle of nowhere, knowing they couldn't reach the next likely place they might obtain more fuel, and only THEN started conserving what fuel was left and scanning for more. Forget all the war crimes, this is Janeway's low point, leadership-wise. The writers could have easily fixed this with one line in the opening captain's log about some accident where they lost all their fuel except a tiny reserve that was in another tank or something. Also, I guess at the end they got to keep some of the deuterium from the surface, even though it's literally part of the aliens' bodies, because they don't even mention the fuel situation anymore. Arrrrgh, such lazy writing.
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Jun 3, 2021 01:28
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Tighclops posted:It's not even that I'm passionate about hating it, it's that the ways in which it's bad now are so vexing and of the current era, just so specifically hosed that it's... words honestly fail me. Star Trek by libertarian crypto nerds is my personal hell. I am dead and this is hell, none of you are real. I didn't mean that critically, I mean it that the plain nature of it's sucking just, well... vexes you in an ineffable way. When something super stupid happens in Disco or whatever, I can feel through the Subspace Force an unrest. Is it weird to imagine cool commander oh's face reaction to awful moments in NuTrek? Yes, perhaps, but none of my IRL friends have the constitution to watch so much of something that ain't great, let alone Bad Even IF You Really Don't Want It To Be.
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Jun 3, 2021 01:36
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nine-gear crow posted:I mean, the most popular and influential voice on YouTube right now talking about Star Trek is a chud who presents himself as a fascist dictator and hates women and people of colour openly on his main account and has a literal Wolfenstein SS-cosplaying white supremacist alt-account on BitChute, so yeah no Trek has the exact same groady underbelly to its fandom as Star Wars does too.  who is this so I can watch out for them?
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Jun 3, 2021 02:40
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Sash! posted:It upsets me because it sucks, how about that The whole nature of right wing ideology is finding things that suck and then blaming them on minorities
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Jun 3, 2021 02:43
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multijoe posted:And to be fair that is an accurate description of about a third of the episodes of TNG and Voyager This is, in fact, unfair. If, when discussing the perspectives of goosestepping motherfuckers you preface your statement with "to be fair", you've extended your goodwill too far. E: try extending a bike chain instead McSpanky fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 02:44
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Powered Descent posted:A random episode mini-review, for VOY: Demon, the one where they go to the demon-class planet and the silver blood stuff starts making duplicates. yeah voyager bad I just watched that episode a week ago and my favorite part was all the nonsensical extras without lines. The Starfleet dudes hanging out with Neelix in sickbay are literally like 90s-era video game NPCs. They all just blankly stare while he's talking, react to nothing, and then just get up in unison and walk out silently when it's time to go. They're also all sleeping in their uniforms for some reason? And there's another officer that just stares blankly at the transporter pad until Janeway pushes her out of the way, then she wanders back up to the transporter controls at the end of the scene. The best part is that there's no reason at all for Janeway to be in that scene except somebody has to say "beam Harry and Tom to sick bay!" and it can't be the transporter chief extra without a speaking role! It's bafflingly hilarious and bad.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:55
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Khanstant posted:I didn't mean that critically, I mean it that the plain nature of it's sucking just, well... vexes you in an ineffable way. When something super stupid happens in Disco or whatever, I can feel through the Subspace Force an unrest. Is it weird to imagine cool commander oh's face reaction to awful moments in NuTrek? Yes, perhaps, but none of my IRL friends have the constitution to watch so much of something that ain't great, let alone Bad Even IF You Really Don't Want It To Be. 
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Jun 3, 2021 03:00
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Eimi posted:
A guy named Doomcock, seen here in his normal unrinal masked main attire on the left, and his alleged Actual Nazi alt persona on the right: 
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 03:33
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Jun 3, 2021 04:08
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nine-gear crow posted:A guy named Doomcock, seen here in his normal unrinal masked main attire on the left, and his alleged Actual Nazi alt persona on the right: 
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Jun 3, 2021 04:28
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nine-gear crow posted:A guy named Doomcock, seen here in his normal unrinal masked main attire on the left, and his alleged Actual Nazi alt persona on the right: I knew this guy was bad but sweet living gently caress, is there more noise about this or am I naive
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Jun 3, 2021 05:20
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Tighclops posted:I knew this guy was bad but sweet living gently caress, is there more noise about this or am I naive There's no hard concrete proof, but people have noted for a long while now that Doomcock and the Kommandant both sound similar, have the same distinct physical mannerisms when speaking, use suspiciously similar terminology and rhetoric, and have about the same level of production craftsmanship and pageantry to their video diatribes, and Doomcock on a good day is usually one off the cuff tangent away from just blurting out the 14 Words anyway he's that un-crypto of a crypto-facist. It's a remarkable string of coincidences that people have just settled on actually being true because confirmation bias is a wild thing.
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Jun 3, 2021 05:46
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I think I’m concerned that I seem to have skipped over a decade of streamer personalities, and am just now realizing we’ve reached a point where a goober in a mask is giving out unironic opinions about things that people actively listen to.
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Jun 3, 2021 05:52
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HD DAD posted:I think I’m concerned that I seem to have skipped over a decade of streamer personalities, and am just now realizing we’ve reached a point where a goober in a mask is giving out unironic opinions about things that people actively listen to. Given the general ferris wheel nature of e-fame, I suspect that in five years time I won't even remember who this dude is, just like how no one remembers who the top poisonous internet media shitlords of 2015 were now. Like, hell, remember Sargon of Akkad? Remember when he used to be a thing? Anyone?
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Jun 3, 2021 06:04
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I remember I got into a Twitter "argument" (me just hooting and calling names) with someone named TheQuartering and I was like "wow this person is especially stupid even for twitter." Turns out they were like, a well-known wingnut tuber and supposedly known for being intelligent and witty?
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Jun 3, 2021 06:07
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Powered Descent posted:I'm going to completely ignore the aliens (and Neelix's sleepover party) and focus entirely on the deuterium thing. The episode starts with them critically short of it, and so they desperately need to find more in the immediate area because they can't get very far on what's left. ...How the hell did they get into this situation in the first place? They must have deliberately gone off into the middle of nowhere, knowing they couldn't reach the next likely place they might obtain more fuel, and only THEN started conserving what fuel was left and scanning for more. Forget all the war crimes, this is Janeway's low point, leadership-wise. The writers could have easily fixed this with one line in the opening captain's log about some accident where they lost all their fuel except a tiny reserve that was in another tank or something. Also, I guess at the end they got to keep some of the deuterium from the surface, even though it's literally part of the aliens' bodies, because they don't even mention the fuel situation anymore. Arrrrgh, such lazy writing. Yet in Voyager it's become incredibly rare and hard to get hold of even with 24th century tech, while by the time Enterprise came around it had turned into some kind of rock that had to be mined. I'm sure at some point Sternbach was going "guys, guys, it's basically hydrogen, the most common element in the universe!" but was ignored because it's the special warp-drive fuel so must be really difficult to find. Why they couldn't say they were running out of Trek-staple and it-can-be-anything-we-want fake substance dilithium? 
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Jun 3, 2021 07:56
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Brawnfire posted:I remember I got into a Twitter "argument" (me just hooting and calling names) with someone named TheQuartering and I was like "wow this person is especially stupid even for twitter." They got banned from Magic the Gathering for being a shithead, it was kind of impressive given how slow Magic is to ban for anything at all. Also got punched out at GenCon or Origins for it. gently caress Hambly.
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Jun 3, 2021 07:59
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McSpanky posted:This is, in fact, unfair. Bike chain? And I'm not giving the right any undue credit here, just pointing out there is chauvinistic undertone to 90s trek that they latch on to
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Jun 3, 2021 08:04
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V-Men posted:So they're rehashing Voyage Home? Voyage Home 2: Voyage Harder
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Jun 3, 2021 08:21
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mllaneza posted:Voyage Home 2: Voyage Harder Star Trek: Voyage-R
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Jun 3, 2021 08:36
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nine-gear crow posted:This is why NuTrek upsets them so much, because women and non-white people are in charge now, and old rear end grandpa Captain Picard is now surrounded by and talked down to by those people and they don't like it. Yeah that must be it. Couldn't possibly be the drivel that passes as stories, shoehorning Spock into everything, crying and melodrama around every corner, every single aspect of Burnham, spinning camerawork when people are just calmly talking, numerous canon violations, idiotic holographic displays, everything being blue and grey, Orc Klingons, the power of math, turbolifts flying through starbase sized voids, etc.
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Jun 3, 2021 11:10
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Kinda funny how anytime anyone brings up the completely true “online alt-right dickheads are one of the vocal groups that really hate nuTrek for bigoted reasons” factoid a whole bunch of people feel the need to get defensive and go “well I’m not an alt-right dickhead and I still hate nuTrek!” for some reason. You can hate nuTrek for completely valid reasons and not be a YouTube nazi, but that doesn’t negate the presence of actual Nazi/alt-right fans stirring up and influencing a lot of discourse in the fandom. It’s a genuine problem for a lot of long-running franchises right now.
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Jun 3, 2021 11:17
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fash gonna fash; the important thing is that we don't diminish just how terrible nuTrek is
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Jun 3, 2021 11:58
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These people use the shittiness of the shows, movies, games or whatever things they complain about as a wedge to spread their hate and it's just particularly galling when they do it with something like Star Trek which is explicitly anti fascist all the way back to the beginning even voyager had a two part "gently caress nazis" episode like where do these people get off loving where WHERE
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Jun 3, 2021 12:10
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Eh, I just watched the Voyager episode "Retrospect" and it reads like victim blaming apologia. What a garbage episode.
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Jun 3, 2021 12:28
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HD DAD posted:I think I’m concerned that I seem to have skipped over a decade of streamer personalities I'm definitely concerned that this is a thing someone might say unironically.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:10
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Tighclops posted:even voyager had a two part "gently caress nazis" episode like where do these people get off loving where WHERE The internet!
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Jun 3, 2021 13:44
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thotsky posted:fash gonna fash; the important thing is that we don't diminish just how terrible nuTrek is
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Jun 3, 2021 14:58
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The star trek RLM quiz show episode got me wondering who would win in a star trek face off, Mike Stoklasa or Adam H. Johnson?
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Jun 3, 2021 15:22
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thotsky posted:Eh, I just watched the Voyager episode "Retrospect" and it reads like victim blaming apologia. What a garbage episode. The thing to remember about Retrospect was that it was released in 1998, which was just around the time of "recovered memory" cases, where people were being accused of sexual abuse, especially childhood sexual abuse because of a new psychological technique called recovered-memory therapy, where psychiatrists used a combination of hypnosis and drugs to "recover" memories that the person had repressed. In the late 90s, it came out that a lot of those were probably false accusations, and that a lot of these recovered memories were actually accidentally implanted by the therapist, who had placed their patient in a suggestible state where they were willing to "remember" whatever they were told to. So even though today it comes across as victim blaming apologia, at the time, it would have been looked at differently, especially the guided imagery that the Doctor does on Seven, which is based on an actual technique in recovered-memory therapy.
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Jun 3, 2021 16:36
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Epicurius posted:The thing to remember about Retrospect was that it was released in 1998, which was just around the time of "recovered memory" cases, where people were being accused of sexual abuse, especially childhood sexual abuse because of a new psychological technique called recovered-memory therapy, where psychiatrists used a combination of hypnosis and drugs to "recover" memories that the person had repressed. In the late 90s, it came out that a lot of those were probably false accusations, and that a lot of these recovered memories were actually accidentally implanted by the therapist, who had placed their patient in a suggestible state where they were willing to "remember" whatever they were told to. Yeah, but the episode still uses a ton of stuff that's recognizably a part of the "but what about the person accused of being a rapist, hmmm?" genre It's a product of its time like literally everything, but the way it handles those topics isn't great. It's hard to really explain how I feel about that episode without writing a whole book, but there's an issue in media where you can set up the objective facts of your story in such a way that you really taint your conclusions. Kovin is the "real" victim because every element of the story makes him out to be one, and that's kind of an issue when the episode is not even remotely subtle as a rape allegory.
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Jun 3, 2021 17:20
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Kinda funny how anytime anyone brings up the completely true “online alt-right dickheads are one of the vocal groups that really hate nuTrek for bigoted reasons” factoid a whole bunch of people feel the need to get defensive and go “well I’m not an alt-right dickhead and I still hate nuTrek!” for some reason. I mean it’s kind of pointless as the fash for the most part hates everything. They hate the marvel movies they hate western comics they kind of like anime sometimes. That’s just what the media meta is. You hate whatever is popular for baffling reasons. I mean the alt right hates new Star Wars way more because Star Wars is way more popular even though new Star Wars does suck
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Jun 3, 2021 17:37
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Like I feel even talking about these types of channels gives them a legitimacy they don’t deserve
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Jun 3, 2021 17:51
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, but the episode still uses a ton of stuff that's recognizably a part of the "but what about the person accused of being a rapist, hmmm?" genre I mean, all that's true. I guess all you can say, really, is that it's a 22 year old piece of media and reflects that, and that while societal attitudes now are "Isn't it a shame sexually abused and raped women don't get justice for that.", societal attitudes at the time were "Isn't it a shame there are so many false accusations of rape or sexual abuse.". It's the same problem you face with all older stuff, especially stuff that tries to be topical. Attitudes change, values change, the things we think are important change, but film/tv/books/etc are frozen in the time they were made.
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Jun 3, 2021 19:24
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Epicurius posted:I mean, all that's true. I guess all you can say, really, is that it's a 22 year old piece of media and reflects that, and that while societal attitudes now are "Isn't it a shame sexually abused and raped women don't get justice for that.", societal attitudes at the time were "Isn't it a shame there are so many false accusations of rape or sexual abuse.". It's the same problem you face with all older stuff, especially stuff that tries to be topical. Attitudes change, values change, the things we think are important change, but film/tv/books/etc are frozen in the time they were made. See also: any mention of gender in TOS. I think it's trying to be all objective and rational about gender differences, but it comes out as terrible sexism.
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Jun 3, 2021 19:59
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BonHair posted:See also: any mention of gender in TOS. I think it's trying to be all objective and rational about gender differences, but it comes out as terrible sexism. TOS is *soaked* in awful sexism and it's the most difficult hurdle in watching the classic series. TNG's first season is really weird about Deanna too. I mean it never goes away, but it's *really* notable at the start.
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Jun 3, 2021 20:02
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Agreed on the TOS sexism, but I think Deanna S1 was a misguided attempt to "balance out" Tasha's character, as dumb as that seems.
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Jun 3, 2021 20:06
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