(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Jun 28, 2021 18:10
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euphronius posted:if you think Stalin was worried about Germany in the late 20s the repressions in Russia throughout the late 20s and 30s have a different context than usually presented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War
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Jun 28, 2021 18:15
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Ferrinus posted:the thing is that stalin was dramatically pro peasant compared to people "to his left" (contra trotsky, he believed there were gradations within the peasant class such that many peasants actually were useful to the socialist project, whereas others thought the size and backwardness of the peasantry meant building socialism in russia was pointless and the ussr had to use the last of its strength to try to kickstart revolution elsewhere before it was too late), and he himself released a wide proclamation titled something like "dizzy with success" after the first and most drastic jump in collectivization that basically said things had gone too widely and too quickly and needed to be scaled back and allowed to settle revolution from above is only used once in that book . that is the one time. I think it is just meant as a short hand description of “what Lenin didn’t want” which was to convince the (non petit boug) peasants to adopt socialism by showing how good it was . who knows how long that would have taken
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Jun 28, 2021 18:19
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comedyblissoption posted:just a reminder that a bunch of allied nations invaded russia to back the czar against the revolution and that 1/8th the population of the soviet union were murdered by the nazi invasion and world war 2 oh yeah I know.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:20
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https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1409313735554916353 I'm just going to continue posting the Stalin guy.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:22
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genericnick posted:https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1409313735554916353 That's almost an Oscar Wilde level pithy quip. I can appreciate a good bon mot
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Jun 28, 2021 18:34
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euphronius posted:revolution from above is only used once in that book . that is the one time. I think it is just meant as a short hand description of “what Lenin didn’t want” which was to convince the (non petit boug) peasants to adopt socialism by showing how good it was . who knows how long that would have taken i mean, there were strata within the peasantry who were convinced, who moved with the cp against the strata who weren't. the numbers advantage was small enough that a lot of collectivization happened more violently than you'd like, but i think "essential discontinuity" is going too far, especially given stalin's own decision to ease off on the gas a few years down the line when it became clear how the beginnings of collectivization were playing out in the field
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Jun 28, 2021 18:36
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Ferrinus posted:i mean, there were strata within the peasantry who were convinced, who moved with the cp against the strata who weren't. the numbers advantage was small enough that a lot of collectivization happened more violently than you'd like, but i think "essential discontinuity" is going too far, especially given stalin's own decision to ease off on the gas a few years down the line when it became clear how the beginnings of collectivization were playing out in the field yeah i have to read a Stalin biography next
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Jun 28, 2021 18:43
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i got what i'm posting here from ludo martens's Another View of Stalin which is more like a greatest hits/biggest propaganda flashpoints than a proper start to finish bio
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Jun 28, 2021 18:48
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dead gay comedy forums posted:sure, it’s a speculative take, but Lenin wouldn’t loving suffer it at all imho well I suppose it’s a good thing he died then euphronius posted:it’s kind of shocking how literate the heroes of 100+ years ago were compared to today there’s no heroes of today cause they all get killed or imprisoned once they rise to the point of “might potentially possibly be a threat in the medium-term future” while people like deray are pushed to become the face of movements
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Jun 28, 2021 18:52
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https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1407933384857247746 Just get him an account.
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Jun 28, 2021 19:00
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Jun 28, 2021 19:02
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Ferrinus posted:i got what i'm posting here from ludo martens's Another View of Stalin which is more like a greatest hits/biggest propaganda flashpoints than a proper start to finish bio Id like one that is source heavy and from a person who knows Russian probably. Ill have to look around. Its interesting about how contextualized Khrushchev's secret speech has become as I learn more. That was not a speech solely interested in the truth at all lol
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Jun 28, 2021 19:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:
You just know some khive tech bro at twitter wrote that bullshit
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Jun 28, 2021 20:04
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I like this guy https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1409529325297143809?s=20
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Jun 28, 2021 20:10
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I want to drunk drive the holodomor bus with this guy
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Jun 28, 2021 22:12
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indigi posted:well I suppose it’s a good thing he died then I meant Lenin was going to probably be far more aggressive against fascism than Stalin was (whether this is good or not is for you to consider) Lenin was the most proactive and the most combative of the bolshevik leadership; he was defeated twice on assembly to mobilize the petrograd soviet to give the blow and by the third try it was a matter of survival and yeah I get the gist of reevaluating Stalin but besmirching golden vlad lad to make joey look good? joe wouldn't suffer that, he would punch your teeth out for daring to insult the bro he most adored, lol
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Jun 28, 2021 22:15
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also, since we are near the subject, I would like some help on the matter: are there any good sources on civil rights under Stalin, lgbtq in particular? basically, I can't look for poo poo anywhere about the matter without it being a clusterfuck and my awareness of the historiography involved in almost none, and looking through discussions to get a gauge on the issue, well, it sucks. it ends up with people like me who also like to kiss dudes being called bougie degenerate counter-revolutionaries, which lmao the best I could find is that the deliberate prosecution of homosexuals during Stalin's leadership was carried under Genrikh Yagoda (who has quite an extensive account of homophobia, it seems) leading the NKVD. Stalin himself had no issue at all with the matter (hell by this point, if there was something on his writings indicating something, it would have showed up under the scrutiny), so was it an institutional failure of the Union?
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Jun 28, 2021 22:35
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AnimeIsTrash posted:I hope Vaush picks some neutral sources like Radio Free Asia or Epoch Times. but of course, he wouldn't use any western sources. https://twitter.com/KaioshinXL/status/1378875037550190593
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Jun 28, 2021 22:41
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Dr. Poz posted:but of course, he wouldn't use any western sources. when i was flipping around one of his sources was Bitter Winter, an italian based org that is a designated Friend of Falun Gong https://bitterwinter.org/ https://fofg.org/voices-of-support/bitter-winter-reporting-on-religious-persecution-in-china/
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Jun 28, 2021 22:45
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The Economist isn't a "Western source" because it's not in the Western hemisphere. 
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Jun 28, 2021 22:48
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Based
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Jun 28, 2021 23:05
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Larry Parrish posted:Based 
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Jun 29, 2021 00:11
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I wasn’t aware the Czar literally banned vodka in 1916. that’s incredibly stupid (from the recent mike Duncan episode). it made me the that a lot of the conditions for revolution in 1916 ish are not present here in America at all. yet some of the reasons Duncan listed iirc - inflation and scarcity - food problems with peasants just keeping grain rather than selling it - women sitting and talking in bread lines 40 hours a week - nationalist fervor against the czarina - HE LITERALLY BANNED VODKA - I may be forgetting some
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Jun 29, 2021 00:13
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euphronius posted:- I may be forgetting some WWI probably
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Jun 29, 2021 00:20
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indigi posted:WWI probably ironically the czar started ww1 to stop the revolution
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Jun 29, 2021 00:22
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euphronius posted:I wasn’t aware the Czar literally banned vodka in 1916. eh, I think we’re getting closer. remember those miles long lines for food pantries during the covid lockdowns? on the other hand that’s another great thing about America, instead of radicalizing in the bread lines together, people sit in vehicles alone with nothing but radio and podcasts to pass the time
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Jun 29, 2021 00:23
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euphronius posted:ironically the czar started ww1 to stop the revolution I didn’t realize apis was secretly tsar Nicholas the whole time!
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Jun 29, 2021 00:24
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Centrist Committee posted:eh, I think we’re getting closer. remember those miles long lines for food pantries during the covid lockdowns? on the other hand that’s another great thing about America, instead of radicalizing in the bread lines together, people sit in vehicles alone with nothing but radio and podcasts to pass the time yeah o was gonna say the long lines were crucially atomized people in cars looking at Facebook
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Jun 29, 2021 00:30
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comedyblissoption posted:just a reminder that a bunch of allied nations invaded russia to back the czar against the revolution and that 1/8th the population of the soviet union were murdered by the nazi invasion and world war 2 why was japan involved? did the czar owe them war reparations that wouldn't be repaid in the event of revolution?
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Jun 29, 2021 00:32
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I didn’t realize apis was secretly tsar Nicholas the whole time! was apis the dude that carried around a wallet made of the old serbian queen or was that one of his flunkies
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Jun 29, 2021 00:32
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The Voice of Labor posted:why was japan involved? did the czar owe them war reparations that wouldn't be repaid in the event of revolution? more "OH gently caress COMMUNISM"
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Jun 29, 2021 00:40
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euphronius posted:ironically the czar started ww1 to stop the revolution "Lets start a quick war to keep domestic dissent in check!" is practically a running gag on the show at this point
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Jun 29, 2021 00:42
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that said, probably a reason why socialist revolutions were only successful in the periphery
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Jun 29, 2021 00:44
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Malleum posted:was apis the dude that carried around a wallet made of the old serbian queen or was that one of his flunkies first of i'm hearing of it but since he was the one that shot the queen it would probably be him
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Jun 29, 2021 00:53
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unfortunate that the nazis had to ruin the art of making furniture out of the aristocracy to make them be useful for once
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Jun 29, 2021 03:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah lol incredible
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Jun 29, 2021 03:13
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StashAugustine posted:"Lets start a quick war to keep domestic dissent in check!" is practically a running gag on the show at this point it worked for everyone else in WWI
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Jun 29, 2021 03:39
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:when i was flipping around one of his sources was Bitter Winter, an italian based org that is a designated Friend of Falun Gong Bitter Winter is the blog of the founder of Eastern Lightning, a Christian fundamentalist cult responsible for at least one murder.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:29
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indigi posted:it worked for everyone else in WWI lolling that the SPD was the first socialist party to vote for the war
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Jun 29, 2021 05:00
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