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Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

Ariong posted:

Oh that’s interesting. I once got 20 or so trinkets into a boss room and I tried using all those keys during the ascent. After about 15 new rooms all I had was a bunch of worthless pickups and a few blue hearts less than when I started, and the novelty had worn off.

Overall I’d say it probably isn’t optimal to maximize your cracked keys because the amount of time you’re putting into maybe getting a couple more treasure rooms for that run could instead be put toward future runs, which will be more productive.

There are rules to certain Red rooms, like the Ultra Secret room tries to spawn next two red rooms that are touching regular rooms, but it itself is not touching a regular room.

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Augus
Mar 9, 2015


ultra secret rooms don’t spawn on the ascent tho. you need to just hope that you get a special red room with an item in it, which is pure chance

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
I gave myself a run once where I could generate as many red rooms as possible. Which was a fun novelty, but yeah not something I’m interested in really doing again. The Ultra Secret Room is always worth it to go after since it has an Angel Room item in it, and it can be reached in one usage of the red key per floor, but other stuff tends to be a crapshoot and requires luck or a ton of red room farming to get something good, and playing Isaac in that way really bores me.

IMJack
Apr 16, 2003

Royalty is a continuous ripping and tearing motion.


Fun Shoe

watho posted:

i just had 3 planetariums show up in a row lmfao

If you see a planetarium door but don't go into it, you're actually extremely likely or guaranteed to get one on the next floor.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzuln3Mtzkk

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
Taking tainted lost through greedier mode can eat my rear end.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

IMJack posted:

If you see a planetarium door but don't go into it, you're actually extremely likely or guaranteed to get one on the next floor.

i did go into all of them tho! ended up with pluto, neptunus, and terra on the same run which was kinda bonkers

Hot Diggity!
Apr 3, 2010

SKELITON_BRINGING_U_ON.GIF
Goddamn I wish there was a way to unlock the Forgotten via mod

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

this is like 4 times in a row now that I've gotten the knife familiar and then forgotten about the mausoleum door :v:

scourgeofthe7bees
Jun 21, 2008


scourgeofthe7bees posted:

How do you beat Greedier mode with Jacob and Esau? i always get caught on rocks i can’t see because there’s a million enemies on the screen

Complaining here did it, so now i just gotta get hush and delirium with these tools... shouldn’t be too bad, right? Right?!?

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.

Hot Diggity! posted:

Goddamn I wish there was a way to unlock the Forgotten via mod

Just install some mod that lets you cheat enough. I did a lot of horsehit unlocks with a mod that spawns like 20 item pedestals in every starting room of a floor, and steamrolling through the game that way.

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012

scourgeofthe7bees posted:

Complaining here did it, so now i just gotta get hush and delirium with these tools... shouldn’t be too bad, right? Right?!?

Hush isn't too bad with J&E, as long as you have an item to counter the bullets, like the Soul, Shielded Tears, Psy/Bot Fly, Jelly Belly/Metal Plate/The Mask, Dry Baby, Algiz, reverse Magician, several black orbital flies, etc. Just line J&E up behind each other, so only one character is facing Hush at any time, this should make most of the really bad attacks dodgable.


Good luck with delirium lol, go for a gamebreak or something

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox
Just finished Bloody Mary after a week or so of trying off and on. Satan is probably my worst fight in the game (other than like Dogma I guess bc I've only fought it a few times), so it was an uphill battle.

Ended up getting a chaos card on the first or second floor and carrying it all the way to Satan. That and a lucky dead cat were finally enough.

Now I guess I have to start seriously looking at Onan's streak again...

scourgeofthe7bees
Jun 21, 2008


Psychedelicatessen posted:

Hush isn't too bad with J&E, as long as you have an item to counter the bullets, like the Soul, Shielded Tears, Psy/Bot Fly, Jelly Belly/Metal Plate/The Mask, Dry Baby, Algiz, reverse Magician, several black orbital flies, etc. Just line J&E up behind each other, so only one character is facing Hush at any time, this should make most of the really bad attacks dodgable.


Good luck with delirium lol, go for a gamebreak or something

oh man, i was rolling with a sacred heart triple shot, delirium, tons of hp, etc. But then i found genesis for the first time ever and curiosity got the better of me (i like to try to figure out what items do before reading the wiki), and now i know it is a garbage tier item if you are Jacob and Esau... RIP, chosen run

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009


Chaos Card still doesn't work like all the other throwables, huh? :shepicide:

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004

It's 2006. I am taking 276 yeti furs from the goodies hoard.

Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

Chaos Card still doesn't work like all the other throwables, huh? :shepicide:

Well it's not called the "Normal Card"

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

:dehumanize:
:killing:
:dehumanize:
Having three different ways to use throwable items is the pinnacle of game design.

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

scourgeofthe7bees posted:

oh man, i was rolling with a sacred heart triple shot, delirium, tons of hp, etc. But then i found genesis for the first time ever and curiosity got the better of me (i like to try to figure out what items do before reading the wiki), and now i know it is a garbage tier item if you are Jacob and Esau... RIP, chosen run

External Item IDs is your friend.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

A really cool thing about the External Item IDs mod is that it can detect when a card is inaccessible due to the floor layout, and if it is, it will not show you what the card does until you gain access to it. No idea how they pulled that off.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

yeah i’m really surprised at how not-cheaty it is

scourgeofthe7bees
Jun 21, 2008


Evil Kit posted:

External Item IDs is your friend.

No i like to get screwed by the game, it’s part of the appeal to me

kvx687
Dec 29, 2009

Soiled Meat

scourgeofthe7bees posted:

Complaining here did it, so now i just gotta get hush and delirium with these tools... shouldn’t be too bad, right? Right?!?

Delirium is currently glitched out when transforming into multi-section bosses, especially Larry Jr. and the Husk. Dealing enough damage to a single section has a chance to massively reduce his health, and even if not usually cause it to spawn about 6-8 heart pickups, and can trigger multiple times.

For non-cheesy strategies, I find that he almost never teleports onto you if you're not moving, and frequently teleports onto the opposite side of the room. I generally have more success by playing slowly and patiently, waiting out his attacks and only going in during his easier patterns or when he's in a non-moving form- in particular his base form is completely unarmored so takes way more damage. Remember that he has a set number of forms he can use each run and is highly biased towards enemies you've already fought, so you can try and aim for easier sets of bosses to use.

Your Moms Ahegao
Sep 3, 2008

External Item ID mods are absolutely mandatory for Issac and Enter the Gungeon.

Utterly baffling to me that there aren't item descriptions in either of those games.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox
Pro-tip: If you're making really good time for a Hush run, make sure and say "the only way I'd stop for boss rush is if 'incredibly OP item' were in there"

Works 9/10 times.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


PantsBandit posted:

Pro-tip: If you're making really good time for a Hush run, make sure and say "the only way I'd stop for boss rush is if 'incredibly OP item' were in there"

Works 9/10 times.

That isn’t even really necessary anymore now that you’re guaranteed to get a fool card on depths II

Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

This world only remembers the results!




I feel like I never see anything even worth taking in the boss rush anymore vs it used to be debating which of three good ones to take

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

Is there a tool that lets you put in 8 (or ideally any number of) pickups and it will show you all the items you can craft with it? Platinumgod almost does that, but it will only show you the recipes that have the pickups you enter in the exact order you entered them.

EDIT: Wait, now it's not doing that anymore. weird.

Ariong fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 26, 2021

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Lemme tell ya, having 2 Psy Flies is very silly

bossy lady
Jul 9, 1983

I had no idea greed's gullet lets you exceed 2 coin hearts for tainted keeper. When this game wants you to win...

Pentaro
May 5, 2013


Tainted Keeper can also get an extra HP with Mother's Kiss. He has some pretty broken synergies. Deep Pockets + Keeper's Sack = Get ready to steamroll (Ironically Steam Sale kind of gimps this combo, since cheaper items don't give as many stat increases)

I just used him to beat Delirium. I was ready for a long and arduous battle but turns out Soul of Azazel just melts his dumb rear end.

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Your Moms Ahegao posted:

External Item ID mods are absolutely mandatory for Issac and Enter the Gungeon.

Utterly baffling to me that there aren't item descriptions in either of those games.
At least in Isaac’s case, it’s an old-school view on roguelikes and how learning the game’s systems is part of the challenge. The issue is that isaac has like 1000 items and consumables, many of which have descriptions so vague they may as well not exist (No! and Nuh Uh! look similar, have similar non-descriptions, but have a large difference in function).

IMJack
Apr 16, 2003

Royalty is a continuous ripping and tearing motion.


Fun Shoe


loving finally, oh my God. It feels like I've been beating my head against Greedier mode as T. Keeper for weeks. I think my streak was sitting at around -80. Getting Birthright in the opening flop in the store is vital.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox
Trying to clear my Isaac post-it, all I have left is hard mega-satan.

Holy gently caress this has been annoying. I just made it to him and lost bc of tractor beam + mr fetus combo. Every time you change cardinal directions any bombs you have out get whipped back toward you, took so much stupid damage because of that.

And duality just seems straight up broken atm? Took it 2nd floor and didn't get a single angel room the whole run.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

PantsBandit posted:

Trying to clear my Isaac post-it, all I have left is hard mega-satan.

Holy gently caress this has been annoying. I just made it to him and lost bc of tractor beam + mr fetus combo. Every time you change cardinal directions any bombs you have out get whipped back toward you, took so much stupid damage because of that.

And duality just seems straight up broken atm? Took it 2nd floor and didn't get a single angel room the whole run.

I'm at work so I can't check the wiki, but doesn't duality make the room swap from devil to angel every few seconds?

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012

PantsBandit posted:

Trying to clear my Isaac post-it, all I have left is hard mega-satan.

Holy gently caress this has been annoying. I just made it to him and lost bc of tractor beam + mr fetus combo. Every time you change cardinal directions any bombs you have out get whipped back toward you, took so much stupid damage because of that.

And duality just seems straight up broken atm? Took it 2nd floor and didn't get a single angel room the whole run.

If Isaac touches a Red Chest, the game will determine whether or not he gets a Devil/Angel room that floor even if he doesn't teleport, opening only one door and nullifying Duality's effect.

it's a repentance bug, it's supposed to spawn both doors if possible

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

:dehumanize:
:killing:
:dehumanize:

PantsBandit posted:

Trying to clear my Isaac post-it, all I have left is hard mega-satan.

Holy gently caress this has been annoying. I just made it to him and lost bc of tractor beam + mr fetus combo. Every time you change cardinal directions any bombs you have out get whipped back toward you, took so much stupid damage because of that.

And duality just seems straight up broken atm? Took it 2nd floor and didn't get a single angel room the whole run.

Some room layouts make it impossible for both doors to spawn. It can also be overwritten if you use Joker or some other method to teleport to one of them before you fight the boss.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox
^^ Nah there were definitely open walls. Must've been the red chest thing.

Psychedelicatessen posted:

If Isaac touches a Red Chest, the game will determine whether or not he gets a Devil/Angel room that floor even if he doesn't teleport, opening only one door and nullifying Duality's effect.

it's a repentance bug, it's supposed to spawn both doors if possible

Ok cool good to know for future reference.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Psychedelicatessen posted:

If Isaac touches a Red Chest, the game will determine whether or not he gets a Devil/Angel room that floor even if he doesn't teleport, opening only one door and nullifying Duality's effect.

it's a repentance bug, it's supposed to spawn both doors if possible

What the gently caress? :psyduck:

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


PantsBandit posted:

Trying to clear my Isaac post-it, all I have left is hard mega-satan.

Holy gently caress this has been annoying. I just made it to him and lost bc of tractor beam + mr fetus combo. Every time you change cardinal directions any bombs you have out get whipped back toward you, took so much stupid damage because of that.

And duality just seems straight up broken atm? Took it 2nd floor and didn't get a single angel room the whole run.

You know what's fun? It's easier to get to Mega Satan in this expansion than it ever was. You have it easy

ok ok easier

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PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox

PIZZA.BAT posted:

You know what's fun? It's easier to get to Mega Satan in this expansion than it ever was. You have it easy

ok ok easier

Yeah it does seem that way, which is why failing over and over again to dumb poo poo is driving me crazy lol. I just need one decent run so I can move on.

On my last one I had him down to his final form, all I needed to do was not get hit by a stray bullet for like 20 seconds since I had a ton of dps. Didn't work out that way.

Psychedelicatessen posted:

If Isaac touches a Red Chest, the game will determine whether or not he gets a Devil/Angel room that floor even if he doesn't teleport, opening only one door and nullifying Duality's effect.

it's a repentance bug, it's supposed to spawn both doors if possible

Just to clarify this post a bit further, the red chest bug apparently 100% kills your angel room chance immediately decides between angel/devil for the floor. This obviously affects duality but also just in general I guess don't touch any red chests if you want an angel deal.

PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jul 27, 2021

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