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ManSedan posted:I recently finished Victory myself and I think what pissed me off the most was Odelo dying. 
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Aug 4, 2021 16:10
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ZZ episode 27: Pardon? Did Judau just summon a stand?
Sleng Teng fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 16:22
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Sleng Teng posted:ZZ episode 27: Pardon? Did Judau just summon a stand? Yeah
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Aug 4, 2021 16:27
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Sleng Teng posted:ZZ episode 27: Pardon? Did Judau just summon a stand? Judau alone am best
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Aug 4, 2021 16:30
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Sleng Teng posted:ZZ episode 27: Pardon? Did Judau just summon a stand? Because it's relevant: closeted republican posted:HOLY poo poo I SAW HIM AGAIN TODAY!!!
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Aug 4, 2021 16:37
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Shinjobi posted:Judau alone am best Yeah I have to say between that and him kinda doing the Char grunt at times he's at the top of my Gundam protagonist list!
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Aug 4, 2021 16:38
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Judau is a top tier Gundam protag stuck in a series that doesn't spend enough time letting him be great, cause we need wacky hijinks.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:10
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Judau is the best and deserves better then ZZ
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Aug 4, 2021 18:47
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I rewatched hathaway and I really do appreciate how they present the federation and I think really nails the problem with them. I'd go as far to say that it's the first gundam property since Char's counter attack that really gets why the federation is awful. They just have a staggeringly level of corruption and indifference to average citizen. We get a clear view of the corruption. Feddie bigwigs give out credit cards with unlimited balances to their friends/associates. The purchases made with them are untraceable We have feddie officials trotting around with prostitutes/call girls 40 years their junior. They travel in luxury and stay in beautiful hotels. We have ground troops hassling the civilian population to make sure that people are where they are supposed to be. Anyone who shouldn't be there has the danger of getting shipped to the colonies. The chosen get to stay and anyone outside this group gets shipped off. The fights themselves highlight the indfference. even t The feddie mobile suits during the fight are shooting at Mafty suits. They're shooting down towards the ground and don't seem to care that they could be hitting civilians. The feddies mobile suit land on buildings which cause debris to fall and potentially kill people. They aren't actively hostile and bloodthirsty, they just don't seem to give a poo poo. I think this matches up more with how the feddies were portrayed in the original gundam. We don't see the feddies actively killing civilians, but we do see them being completely indifferent to their suffering. The scene with Amuro and the drunk soldiers in the original series is a good highlight of this problem. I've had troubles with other gundam series showing that the federation is bad by having the feddies commit war crimes on the scale of zeon did- like the story Zimmerman tells that Feddies killed a whole town, or the feddies slaughtering surrendering zeon in igloo, kind of misses the point of the conflict. The Federation didn't believe that anyone was a superior race or anything like that. They were just selfish. Zeon suck's way more than the federation, but Zeon is bad for very different reasons. I keep reflecting on Hathaway and I find myself really appreciating the movie. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 20:03
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ManSedan posted:I recently finished Victory myself and I think what pissed me off the most was Odelo dying. ;_;
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Aug 4, 2021 20:17
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On a thematic level I really do like Hathaway but I wish that it's ending wasn't so weak because it does hurt the film as a standalone. It's not even that it's part one of a trilogy, the ending just stops and doesn't resolve anything. The Origin films told an ongoing story but they still managed to have satisfying conclusions to each film's contained plot.
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Aug 4, 2021 20:32
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Monaghan posted:I've had troubles with other gundam series showing that the federation is bad by having the feddies commit war crimes on the scale of zeon did- like the story Zimmerman tells that Feddies killed a whole town, or the feddies slaughtering surrendering zeon in igloo, kind of misses the point of the conflict. The Federation didn't believe that anyone was a superior race or anything like that. They were just selfish. Zeon suck's way more than the federation, but Zeon is bad for very different reasons. It's also not like ZZ where you go "How are these dumbasses even alive?" Hathaway's corruption is on a scale where you can see an organization slowly decaying for decades while still being able to maintain its bubble. There's still enough in the way of competent people and social benefits to the organization's existence that you can see how it's surviving on inertia.
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Aug 4, 2021 21:01
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The Federation only gets by when it has an enemy to fight because it uses external threats to justify its actions and obfuscate its corruption. Hathaway is set during a brief period where there isn't a major conflict with an enemy state so their corruption bubbles up to the surface with nothing to mask it.
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Aug 4, 2021 21:05
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I've decided to start Victory Gundam and hoooo-boy this show a downer. If Evangelion is a giant robot show about depression, then Victory is a giant robot show made OF depression. I will say I love the design of the umbrella shaped ship that 2 mobile suits can ride Mary Poppins style. 
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Aug 4, 2021 23:23
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Zarikov posted:I've decided to start Victory Gundam and hoooo-boy this show a downer. If Evangelion is a giant robot show about depression, then Victory is a giant robot show made OF depression. Evangelion is about how horrible things happening shape the protagonists. Victory Gundam is just about horrible things happening. Nonstop. Without context.
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Aug 4, 2021 23:38
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ManSedan posted:I recently finished Victory myself and I think what pissed me off the most was Odelo dying. Killing the main character at the end is something of a gandum tradition though. It took them until CCA to off Amuro, but I guess that makes sense since he's the main man of the entire Char thing. Kamille gets coma'd for Zeta, Judau just fucks off forever after ZZ.
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Aug 5, 2021 00:54
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I wish he was the main character
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Aug 5, 2021 00:58
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Nuebot posted:Killing the main character at the end is something of a gandum tradition though. It took them until CCA to off Amuro, but I guess that makes sense since he's the main man of the entire Char thing. Kamille gets coma'd for Zeta, Judau just fucks off forever after ZZ. I mean, that's not killing the lead. That's just moving them out of the way, which is rather different. They even did that with Amuro in Zeta to an extent.
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Aug 5, 2021 01:01
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Zarikov posted:I've decided to start Victory Gundam and hoooo-boy this show a downer. If Evangelion is a giant robot show about depression, then Victory is a giant robot show made OF depression. Beam Rotors own so much, Star Wars stole them.
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Aug 5, 2021 02:19
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beam rotors make no sense but it's gundam. who cares about that if it looks cool?
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Aug 5, 2021 03:14
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Gundam stole lightsabers, so it's only fair that Star Wars steals beam rotors
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Aug 5, 2021 04:30
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The United States posted:Gundam stole lightsabers, so it's only fair that Star Wars steals beam rotors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sOvNYYH6Cs
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Aug 5, 2021 04:49
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ManSedan posted:I recently finished Victory myself and I think what pissed me off the most was Odelo dying. Yeah this really soured it and then the finale of it was a big ????
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Aug 5, 2021 05:16
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Ramadu posted:Yeah this really soured it and then the finale of it was a big ???? It doesn't help that it feels like a death among the protagonists just for the sake of having a death, rather than a payout to an arc or a natural result of the themes. Victory is a mean show, but it's not the best at aiming for maximum pain from its decisions, making things hurt less and leave you more irritated at the show than anything.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:40
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chiasaur11 posted:It doesn't help that it feels like a death among the protagonists just for the sake of having a death, rather than a payout to an arc or a natural result of the themes. Victory is a mean show, but it's not the best at aiming for maximum pain from its decisions, making things hurt less and leave you more irritated at the show than anything. I felt the same way about Zeta when Emma died. It just felt utterly pointless. Didn't care about Katz though, he hosed around and found out.
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Aug 5, 2021 06:53
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Bloody Pom posted:I felt the same way about Zeta when Emma died. It just felt utterly pointless. Zeta has the excuse that ZZ was coming. If Emma was still around, then she'd be the ace of the AEUG, which would make for a very different dynamic for the early part of the show.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:01
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(Zeta stuff since I guess we'respoiling this now?) I dont understand why reccoa and emma didn't mutual kill each other. It was set up perfectly for them to do so, but instead of that happened emma survives just long enough to uh, die for kamille instead I guess. And then she barely shows up in the newtype death montage despite explicitly letting herself die so kamille can have a stronger super saiyan powerup. It's so weird to set up a perfectly fine character death only to avoid it so they can be fridged instead, and then not even have them getting fridged matter much
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Aug 5, 2021 07:47
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dying to motivate kamille is still probably better than dying as part of reccoa's idiotic subplot.
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Aug 5, 2021 08:44
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:dying to motivate kamille is still probably better than dying as part of reccoa's idiotic subplot. And it means she gets to duck out of ZZ. Emma was thinking three steps ahead.
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Aug 5, 2021 08:52
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chiasaur11 posted:I mean, that's not killing the lead. That's just moving them out of the way, which is rather different. Any time a character is off screen they're dead to me. I don't know who this Milliardo guy is, but I miss Zechs.
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Aug 5, 2021 11:45
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I’m like 19 eps in to ibo and this char is pretty loving lame. We’ve also got incompetent haman, fashion idol relena, and aimless heero. Enjoying so far. the execution of crashing the ship into that earth station was loving goofy as hell though, it hit, slide along it like a gamebryo bug and then flew off no problem.
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Aug 5, 2021 14:04
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Monaghan posted:I rewatched hathaway and I really do appreciate how they present the federation and I think really nails the problem with them. I'd go as far to say that it's the first gundam property since Char's counter attack that really gets why the federation is awful. They just have a staggeringly level of corruption and indifference to average citizen. I actually think Char's Counterattack is one of the Tomino's kinder and more sympathetic showings of the Federation, between them trying to resolve the conflict with a treaty that makes Sweetwater independent, them selling Axis for welfare funds and the fleets at the end rushing in to help push Axis without a second thought. It shows decency at both the top and bottom of the Federation. There's even evidence of the Federation command being kind of decent in smaller things, like Adaneur taking public transport to get to space instead of a private shuttle or something. I know the film wants to present it as Adaneur being thoughtlessly corrupt and arrogant, kicking Mirai and her family off the flight to commandeer the seats, before allowing one of them to stay because he owes someone a favor, and maybe I'm just so used to real life politicians being poo poo that it's warped my expectations, but the idea of a high ranking politician traveling on public transport for a major treaty conference, no matter how he got it, is evidence enough of some restraint to me. Now, I'm aware that the strategy of appeasement the Federation pursue could be seen as cowardice, or just something they're doing either because Char forced their hand by threatening to destroy colonies if they didn't or because they're strapped for cash and want the funds from the sale of Axis, but at the end of the day they didn't just buckle under pressure like they were originally going to when the Principality was destroying Sides and they didn't simply look aside and try to find the bright side like when Haman dropped a colony. Which already puts them ahead of the curve relative to some other depictions. They also could have just ignored Char's threats, as Bright wanted them to do since he didn't think Char would do that, but not doing so implies they value the colonies at least somewhat. Or they could have taken the cash from Axis and bailed, regardless of how little their citizens had compared to them. They didn't though, and all indications in the film are that they were genuinely planning to use it for welfare purposes. The fact someone from a bureau whose job is to keep track of cash (i.e. an audit bureau) is there to inspect it means corruption of that style is essentially impossible, and Cameron makes no mention of it as a problem when he meets with Bright later. The film does still show them as poo poo in some ways, like the private guards going out and beating up citizens to find Quess, the Federation's negotation group telling Char that they'd guarantee jobs for all the former Neo Zeon pilots while Adaneur tells a random captain he's talking to that once the treaty is settled he can maybe find a job cleaning a beach or something, and as above, Adaneur was still taking someone's shuttle instead of his own and I can still recognize that's bad regardless of why among other things, but compared to the Titans, them giving Haman Side 3 while making light of the destruction of Dublin or even the Federation in F91 deciding not to do anything about the Crossbone Babylon because "it's far away and they're like 2 drunks fighting in a bar; we'll just let them sort it out themselves" I think the Federation in Char's Counterattack are actually kind of decent. I guess it's somewhat of a different view than you're talking about though. You mentioned "thoughtless corruption" and "indifference to the average person", which is still basically true even in how I'd view them in Char's Counterattack, but they're decent at a wider social or political level, I guess? They're still indifferent to the average person, but seem to have some responsibility or investment in their actual jobs compared to other entries in the franchise. chiasaur11 posted:Zeta has the excuse that ZZ was coming. If Emma was still around, then she'd be the ace of the AEUG, which would make for a very different dynamic for the early part of the show. I don't buy that, just because ZZ already had Fa who was a decent pilot and should have at least been a better pilot than any of the untrained kids were early on (bar maybe Judau if the plot wanted to emphasize him as a great pilot) but the solution was just to make her poo poo. So there's really no reason that the plot couldn't have just hamstrung Emma in the same way as a pilot if required. As is, Emma was originally envisioned as surviving Zeta in the first plans Tomino had. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 14:10
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https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1423218128134279171?s=20 Not... technically... wrong...
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Aug 5, 2021 16:16
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Ibblebibble posted:https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1423218128134279171?s=20 But even so!
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Aug 5, 2021 16:21
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Ibblebibble posted:https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1423218128134279171?s=20 You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:23
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DamnGlitch posted:I’m like 19 eps in to ibo and this char is pretty loving lame. 
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Aug 5, 2021 16:49
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tonight i'm going to watch the last 3 episodes of IBO s1 with a couple of friends who are watching for the first time and this has basically been me all day
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Aug 5, 2021 19:50
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DamnGlitch posted:I’m like 19 eps in to ibo and this char is pretty loving lame. Carta's not really much like Haman, despite the whole crush on a Char clone thing. Haman's defining trait in Zeta and most of ZZ before the finale is that she's utterly ruthless. Carta, by contrast, is defined by her obsession with honor and doing things the "right" way. She's really more like Mashymre.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:08
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Carta thought she was in Wing, unfortunately she was not.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:25
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I dont really feel bad for Carta's eventual fate, but it was very entertaining getting there. She comes out swinging with this big dramatic flair, hounds Tekkadan for a few episodes... and immediately gets her face clubbed in by the murder golem named Mikazuki.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:31
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