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drat your map has way more flat open space than mine. Your districts are actually in groups that make sense. I feel like all my cities are squashed in by mountains. Makes me wanna a start a new game and get a new map.
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Aug 20, 2021 13:30
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I like the game but it is clearly not very tuned yet. Playing on Empire difficulty I skyrocket past the AI. With double the second place AIs fame and entering new eras way ahead of them. Seems like this game might have the Endless Space problem where the AI just can't compete because of how the player can efficiently stack all the compounding bonuses. When I get back after the weekend I will try humankind and see how that is. My guess is that they still can't compete, but getting to the midgame without being choked in by their starting bonuses will be the problem. Expansionist stars are much harder to get than other stars because of the logistics involved, and that makes those cultures a bit worse than the alternatives as there is will be a lot more effort involved in getting to 3 stars in an era. They need to reduce the number of new connected territories needed for each star.
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Aug 20, 2021 13:55
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Hryme posted:I like the game but it is clearly not very tuned yet. Playing on Empire difficulty I skyrocket past the AI. With double the second place AIs fame and entering new eras way ahead of them. What's your usual strategy?
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Aug 20, 2021 14:03
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The game has some nice ideas I like, war weariness, diplomacy options and graphics are great. Now the honeymoon is over and I start to see some major problems: - the AI. It simply can't compete without big bonuses, and even with those it's pretty unresponsive and doesn't have much personality. Even with the personality traits each one has, I couldn't tell them apart. It also has cheats, like seeing thru fog of war. (You can test it yourself by putting your nomads to auto-explore on Neolithic era. They waypoint straight to the goodie huts/anomalies inside the fog of war, and after the anomalies start respawning under fog of war, they go straight for those again.) It can also influence indepenent nations on another continent it hasn't even met, because it's all revealed to the AI. That's very bad game design imho. - Pace and balance is way off currently. The yields can become crazy, and everything in the game is centered on bonuses on top of bonuses, it easily becomes boring where you just build everything everywhere without much strategy - There isn't simply much personality in the empires (funny when you think of the strange factions in Endless Legend and Endless Space!). The biggest marketing point, changing cultures, is just a menu where you pick new bonuses. I feel like I need to start doing some weird playstyles to get replayability. Collecting the Era stars is also mechanical and boring and would need some more organic way to earn them, like Civ VI's eurekas for example. Some of my gripes can be probably balanced with patching but some are in the game's design. Glad people are having fun with the game, but on my fourth play I feel like there's not much new to offer.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:23
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fuf posted:drat your map has way more flat open space than mine. Your districts are actually in groups that make sense. I feel like all my cities are squashed in by mountains. Makes me wanna a start a new game and get a new map. there were also other oddities like missing strategic resources meaning i couldn't go to space, and that's of course on top of the infinite turn thing. i was a bit bummed out when i finally realized i just had to resign and start a new game 
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Aug 20, 2021 14:27
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Is there some other way to get 2nd oil other than just conquering it? The civ is too dumb to drill it themselves. I could send some shock troops and a fleet to solve my oil problem. I can't go to the moon without the 2nd oil! I searched the map and they have the only other oil.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:31
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Ihmemies posted:Is there some other way to get 2nd oil other than just conquering it? The civ is too dumb to drill it themselves. I could send some shock troops and a fleet to solve my oil problem. I can't go to the moon without the 2nd oil! I searched the map and they have the only other oil. also i won a game on nation difficulty   i usually play on very low difficulty because i am terribad at these games but this game was a lot of fun. i probably only won because i went sailing early and found (and took over) and entire continent by myself
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Aug 20, 2021 14:35
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Gort posted:What's your usual strategy? Hmm. In the neolithic era I spend it looking for science anomalies and killing animals to get food. I don't go out of my way to chase food anomalies because it is more efficient to clear camps or kill animals to grow. Because of this I try to move around in pairs as this is what is needed to kill a mammoth. I set up the first outpost as soon as I can (the first one is only 5 influence) in an area that has some resources. And I aim for getting two or three up before advancing. I do not advance until I get the legacy trait for getting the science star. I pick food, because it makes the population you have to stick on food to grow early game produce a higher surplus faster. After neolithic is over I send two solo scouts out to explore more and send the rest home to defend my territory if early aggression happens from the AI. If that is likely to happen I research and build a few warriors early (but having to do this will slow down the game a lot). For the first culture I pick Harappans (almost never because the AI loves them), Egyptians or Babylonians. Assyrians is also good because of the +1 movement but expansionist stars are hard to get. The way I expand is I try to outpost a territory. Then connect it to a city. Then outpost next territory and connect it. Because the influence cost for claiming a new outpost increases according to the number of unconnected outposts you already have. No by doing it that way I minimize the amount of influence needed. When the capital has two territories connected to it I claim a new area and evolve that into a city. Before connecting two new areas to it. Duing the first era I aim to have 6 territories, two cities with two areas connected to them each. When meeting AIs I wait a little bit then offer non-aggression to them, bribing them if needed. Usually I can avoid conflict with the AIs in this way unless I want it myself if I run out of room to expand. When it comes to citizen management I stick one guy on science and then focus food first and science or industry second. Depending on if I need to build something fast or need new things to build. For building priority I focus the influence building first then granary and then other stuff that increases the efficiency of food. Then industry efficiency buildings after. Then the emblematic district of the culture I chose. I focus food because that is what creates a surplus that you can use for other things, and if you need an army it is important to be able to grow back the population you spend on it fast. In midgame I buy all the resources from the AI. I mean all. The bonuses they give stack. So even if you have 4 sage the 5th one you buy will give more bonuses to the empire. That also counts for things like copper. 5 copper bought in trade from the AI will make your forges all better. Later cultures I try to pick options that give permanent bonuses to the output. Food or industry seems to be strongest. When I run out of room to expand I build an army and pick one of neighbours as enemy and demand stuff until conflict happens. Then take their stuff. Sometimes an AI has already been agressive and I might have to build an army to defend earlier. It is ok to go one or maybe two cities over the city cap. But 3 is a bit much. For this reason I tend not to assimilate independents as one city with no connected territories is not that good. And the influence cost for merging cities is high. I think the only real advice worth taking from this is that the effect of luxuries stack. So it is worthwhile to have ALL of them either yourself or bought through trade. The most important thing to spend money on (besides bribing ai for non-aggression pacts in the earlygame). Hryme fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 14:37
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Truga posted:80s is completely normal unless you're playing on like, a pentium 2 though?  .
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Aug 20, 2021 14:42
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Apraxin posted:Is it? Mine's usually in the 50s or 60s unless something resource-intensive is happening. Humankind was hitting nearly 90°C just idling on the map in paleolithic while the fans started screaming like jet engines. I've seen a couple of other people on their dev forums having the same issue, or saying the game's taking up 100% of their GPU. Doesn't seem to be a known reason or fix right now I forget, does this game have a frame-rate limiter? If so, you might want to set it to 60 or so.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:51
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Your Computer posted:also i won a game on nation difficulty Does your choice of names in this forum and in this game suggests my computer is potato? I am confused.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:56
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OK, something that is bugging me - accidentally moving a unit when I meant to deselect them. And if I select one unit of a stack to perform some action like establishing a settlement, the entire stack moves. There needs to be a second confirmation click before a unit actually moves.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:57
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Ihmemies posted:Allllllllso wish the game had "upgrade all units" button... You can multi-select and upgrade units in an army together, between that and the army panel it's pretty quick, unless you have tons of isolated un-upgraded units scattered all over for whatever reason
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Aug 20, 2021 15:52
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What's the general verdict on the game right now (as compared to civ6 which has had years of patches and content added) Better then Civ6 out of the gate or does it need time for patches and more content and worth checking back in around a year?
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Aug 20, 2021 16:28
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:What's the general verdict on the game right now (as compared to civ6 which has had years of patches and content added) My opinion is that it's outright better already, although that's based on two games. I think it has some UI jankiness that they'll hopefully patch out in a week or two, but the gameplay is incredible.
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Aug 20, 2021 16:35
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:What's the general verdict on the game right now (as compared to civ6 which has had years of patches and content added) it needs patches and tuning but the fundamental gameplay choices they made are real good. a lot of stuff in here is "what sucks about the civilization series now, and how should it be different?" like, civ4 doomstacks vs civ5/6 1upt. its a bit of a drastic dichotomy, and while doomstacks are a bit lame, the AI cannot handle 1upt. the compromise in the middle, of short stacks, is pretty neat. this is an endless legend innovation but still good to see here in a slightly more refined form also, civ forces you into a decision on your first turn - move your settler, or settle nearby? you're basically at the mercy of the map generator regardless. humankind gives you the neolithic era to explore around, get a sense of your immediate area, and choose the spots you'd like for your first cities. its nice! as of right now there are some odd problems, like the insane number go up on yields and the fact that the on-UI timeclock isn't really visible anywhere. i think everything i dont like about the game can be patched out or improved though
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Aug 20, 2021 16:44
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Gort posted:I forget, does this game have a frame-rate limiter? If so, you might want to set it to 60 or so.  . Seems to fix it for some people, but not others.
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Aug 20, 2021 16:46
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There are little bugs and its numbers in general could use a pass or two so yeah, about like a civ game at release. So far I like the mechanical concepts, and imo they've accomplished their core goal of making the civ formula feel fresh. I'm enjoying the combat better than I did in Endless Legend and I like the distinction between limited and full warfare.
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Aug 20, 2021 16:48
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Hryme posted:Expansionist stars are much harder to get than other stars because of the logistics involved, and that makes those cultures a bit worse than the alternatives as there is will be a lot more effort involved in getting to 3 stars in an era. They need to reduce the number of new connected territories needed for each star. Huh. I found expansionist stars to consistently be among the easiest to get. I think map size might play into this; more space = easier to expand. If there was one I would peg as hardest, it's influence.
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Aug 20, 2021 16:52
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i always play these games more or less completely pacifist (yes, i do know one of the x's in 4x is "exterminate") and i gotta say i just played a game where i started the game aggro and it kinda.... made everything easier? i took out one civ early in the ancient era and then ransacked another until i owned the entire continent and i already have a nice standing army from all the units i made during the war(s) so now i can just chill until/if someone comes across the sea to fight meRa Ra Rasputin posted:What's the general verdict on the game right now (as compared to civ6 which has had years of patches and content added) i'm not a veteran at these kinds of games and i am also very bad at them, but for me this is already way better than civ 6 in every way. i'm super hooked
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Aug 20, 2021 17:11
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Achievements are bugged. I just won a game on Nation and got the cheevos for beating the game on Metropolis, Nation, and Humankind at the same time. And looking at steam stats, the % of people with each of those is equal as well. I can't think of a reason not to get tech civs up until Japanese at the end of the game and just science up your cities and blitz through the tech tree. By the end I was getting like 3-4 technologies a turn up until the very end.
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Aug 20, 2021 17:13
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nice to have none of my auto saves of my 400+ turn game not load ever.
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Aug 20, 2021 17:44
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I think the Mycenaeans might be arguably the strongest starting culture option. Your special unit is the first unlock is +2 str on the warrior unit, gets another bonus in the first round of combat, and starts at 1 star so it gets another +1. The unique district gives +3 industry, counts as a makers quarter, exploits industry in all the hexes, gives +15 stability, and is a unit spawn point. Also is fortified but that doesn't really come into play. So you just get out of neolithic asap, drop 2 cyclopean fortresses and poop out enough dudes to go bowl over the first AI you can get your mitts on. I also enjoy the celts as the next age culture, their food option is really strong and their special dude is a swordsman who doesn't need iron and has 6 move (and doesn't take penalties to str from dmg).
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Aug 20, 2021 17:44
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Chamale posted:My opinion is that it's outright better already, although that's based on two games. I think it has some UI jankiness that they'll hopefully patch out in a week or two, but the gameplay is incredible. Think this is where I'm at I still have some fundamental issues, but at this point they're literally issues endemic to the 4x genre and I'm not sure any game will be able to fix them That aside, this game just has a lot of Smart design stuff in it, and I love seeing that kind of very considered, intentional and thoughtful efforts to address some core problems that Civ and other games have. Not flawless, and I'm sure you'll start seeing the cracks forming here as the veterans break the game over the next few weeks, but if you're just in it to chill and build a sprawling civ, I think you'll have a good time And for like the third or fourth time, I'll emphasize how much I love the combat system. The EL system was nearly perfect in concept, but in practice it fell flat for a lot of reasons. Many of those have been addressed here, with more added, so you're left with the best parts to play with. EL had the stupid unit customization that sounds cool, but in practice meant both a lot of micro fiddling, and wildly disparate powerlevels, and another thing for the AI to fail at. Here the units have a tight power band that only goes from about 20 in the ancient era to 60 in the modern, so while you'll be able to outsmart the AI (and feel good about it), you generally won't be just brute force smashing their armies due to unit creation shenanigans (at least until goons break the empire building portion of the game anyway )One 'stack' per tile with a foldout map is just about the best of all worlds. Easier pathing and force concentration for the AI, easier to manage with less micro for the player, and more interesting combat engagements that make use of the terrain and your buildings. The limited/border skirmish warfare and basic casus belli systems are also great, because they let you both engage in smaller conflicts without full scale war, and let you see full scale war coming more clearly.
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Aug 20, 2021 17:56
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Kind of interesting that everyone has a different approach they consider overpowered
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Aug 20, 2021 18:25
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Yeah, I like that about Amplitude's games. You hear the same about all of their games. They allow you to feel unlimited power.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:32
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Oh I forgot to mention that since the Mycenaen's district is the defense thing you can build it anywhere in your territory. So you can dump it on the other side in a rocky field and mountains or the middle of a forest and get a cool +20 industry.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:38
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Gort posted:Kind of interesting that everyone has a different approach they consider overpowered Which is a good thing, and it's similar to EL in that regard. I thought going Food > Production > Science that converts production into more Science was an OP strat because it let me build pop quickly, then build anything I wanted (wonders included) quickly, then slam the tech tree home in Era VI by converting my thousands of production per city into science and pumping out several techs a turn. This was on Nation/Pangaea with 10 civs, so not exactly Deity level, but still felt quite comfortable past Era II with only eliminating one neighbor and having a few defensive skirmishes here and there.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:39
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I keep speed running until just past the classical era. The main thing I'm leaving out is starting Zhou sice I haven't seen an AI pick it yet, so it lets me soak up like 8-12 population by staying Neolithic to turn 10-15. The Confusion Schools let's me plop down my research machine and all the techs just zoom till I transition into Huns to bully my neighbors or Carthaginians if I don't have neighbors to bully. It's so smooth, expand to pick up horses and bronze, then tech that wheel for the chariot unique. The volunteer warriors I get while exploring are enough to seige once I get Organized Warfare. I haven't had a chance to unleash the hun horse archer on someone yet, but it is very strong. Walls and fences are my greatest weakness tho
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Aug 20, 2021 18:39
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So are there any civs that people think outright suck? So far there have been a lot of people talking about whats good but very little talking about which ones are almost never worth taking.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:40
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Gort posted:Kind of interesting that everyone has a different approach they consider overpowered Every strategy I try, I'm doing ridiculously well at the chosen concentration. Harappa, Babylon, and Zhou all feel so strong - turn 27 and I've got 42 science per turn! Military cultures are probably really good for rolling over your neighbours, although I haven't yet tried explicitly trying to take over the world. A possible balance issue is that the early choice of Founding Myths feels trivial. Natural Right is way, way better than Divine Mandate.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:45
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fuf posted:Is there a way of grabbing a neighbour's territory in a peaceful way? Like buying it somehow? Don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but as an expansionist civ you can literally march an army into anybody's territory without declaring war and annex outposts or even attached admin centers. I don't think the act itself even generates any grievances.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:51
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Given the city limit, how DO you take over the world in this one for a domination/military victory? Just vassalize everyone?
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Aug 20, 2021 18:57
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Veryslightlymad posted:Can confirm Turks are also busted. At the end, I was racing the different victory conditions against each other. Put a mission to Mars about three turns before finishing the tech tree. by the end of the game i was producing so much science that i was getting techs every other turn... there was simply no WAY to finish my mars mission before i finished the tech tree lol Fhqwhgads posted:Given the city limit, how DO you take over the world in this one for a domination/military victory? Just vassalize everyone? you could always spend a poo poo ton of influence/money to absorb the city's territory into another. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 18:58
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Fur20 posted:by the end of the game i was producing so much science that i was getting techs every other turn... there was simply no WAY to finish my mars mission before i finished the tech tree lol I just absorbed one small-ish city into another and it absolutely tanked my stability on that city to 0. I can't imagine taking down 9 civs worth of cities into your own without like every stability booster imaginable. Edit: That was a fun race building stability improvements to get it over 30 while I watched the number tick down from 100 every turn.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:07
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AnEdgelord posted:So are there any civs that people think outright suck? So far there have been a lot of people talking about whats good but very little talking about which ones are almost never worth taking. If you're landlocked and the civs are blatantly water focused you're probably not going to be picking those civs.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:15
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Harmonia posted:The game has some nice ideas I like, war weariness, diplomacy options and graphics are great. I am humbled. All this time I thought I was better than the auto-explore. All those one by one moves for nothing, the computer already knew and I just needed to trust it.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:31
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Fhqwhgads posted:I just absorbed one small-ish city into another and it absolutely tanked my stability on that city to 0. I can't imagine taking down 9 civs worth of cities into your own without like every stability booster imaginable. shoot i hadn't thought of this. yeah you're right that's the other thing to keep in mind is that AI players--especially small ones--will spam the HELL out of every district they can possibly fit into their one city. so when you absorb it, you end up taking on a surprisingly huge number of districts (and, by extension, n * 10 hit to your city's total stability).
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Aug 20, 2021 19:36
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Basically lost first run when I got hemmed in with only one city and the top AI shot off into the stratosphere somehow. Going for pyramid run this time, Egypt --> Maya --> ??? Aesthetic placement > yields 
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Aug 20, 2021 19:40
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KirbyKhan posted:I am humbled. All this time I thought I was better than the auto-explore. All those one by one moves for nothing, the computer already knew and I just needed to trust it. Yeah besides seeing thru fog of war they can reportedly build units without needing correct amount of population, but that I can't confirm yet. Auto-explore is good for getting thru the boring Neolithic part at least.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:53
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