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Clarste posted:Always be at city cap. More cities is better than bigger cities. You do want to make sure each city has a few territories they can grab though. I think you can go slightly over the cap without much issue, but I don't know the exact penalties - I didn't find them with a casual glance at the encyclopedia.
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Aug 23, 2021 22:52
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I like keeping each city to three territories, initial, and then two add ons. I've never started making them smaller though, is that actually worth it?
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Aug 23, 2021 22:54
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victrix posted:I think you can go slightly over the cap without much issue, but I don't know the exact penalties - I didn't find them with a casual glance at the encyclopedia. There's only an influence penalty listed in the tooltip when you're over the cap. It's 10/turn for one, ~100 for two, ~300 for three. Never been more than three over cap but I assume it keeps scaling superlinearly.
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Aug 23, 2021 22:55
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Ihmemies posted:I have a different gripe, but I guess your answer works for that too. You get 10 turns to decide what to do with each grievance--you can just X out of that dialogue and not choose now. That will probably keep them from popping up every turn, but they'll be around when you're ready to air them. If you turn a grievance into a demand, then you start building war support. If you renounce them or just let them time out then nothing happens.
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Aug 23, 2021 23:03
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I made a nice big religion that slowly took over my AI opponent, who then promptly became the head of my religion and chose my tenet because it's based on who has more holy sites and not faith generation or anything like that. And I can't build anymore arghh
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Aug 23, 2021 23:33
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victrix posted:Small power bonuses matter. Grab those combat boosts from faith (or nations, obv) or special events. To add to this, the event that adds the ferocious trait to your units for ten turns? Uh, Ferocious is +7 strength, which is.... not small. It's basically the "Win your next war" button, as near as I can tell. Ihmemies posted:I have a different gripe, but I guess your answer works for that too. Don't cancel them. I'm not sure there's a benefit to cancelling them. If there is, someone let me know. As the game stands, there's not really a penalty for having war support against someone and then not going to war with them---there is, however, a penalty for having a low war support. If you hover over your relationship status with another player, it'll show you a comparison of strength, and one of the things the game uses to determine this comparative strength is the strength of your war support. Having a ton of available grievances is good, because if the AI makes a demand of you, you can just go to your big list of demands and pick whatever you feel like, and they won't gain any war support over time. Having so many grievances basically means "no matter what you do to piss off the AI, you have many more buttons you can press to quash their support." At this point, if you don't want a war, then great! You probably won't get into one, because anyone who attacks you will be doing so from a position of weakness. And if you DO want a war, then also great, just trigger all your grievances and annex 90% of their country.
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Aug 23, 2021 23:38
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victrix posted:Couple kinda not-obvious things in combat I ran into - you can block reinforcements by moving onto their reinforcement spot (be careful not to block your own when you pull them in by attacking on the reinforcement space!). Useful stuff, thanks!
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Aug 23, 2021 23:50
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TjyvTompa posted:Not true. The bug where the game freezes and hangs on "pending turn" can happen at any time. I've fired several nukes without issue but I've also had the "pending turn" issue before I even got to nukes. There is something else causing it. You can "solve" it by making a save after the turn has processed (you know when you receive notifications or see the turn counter drop 1 turn if your cities are building something) then going back to the main menu and load that save. The game will continue except I noticed that influence for minor cities or whatever they are called is not calculated so I bet the bug has something to do with that. whatever you say, but there's a lot of people saying it's happening when they fire a nuke, and no matter which turn i fired the nuke on (before it was hanging the first time, well after the turn on which it hanged, whatever) the turn was forever pending. in my case, going back to the main menu and loading the save didn't work, the game wouldn't load past halfway and you had to load the turn before firing it.
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Aug 24, 2021 00:11
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So doing some testing on Empire for a few turns, I can confirm that the food required per population to sustain them does go up, but it does so pretty slowly. Calculating off of the amount they eat without any positive bonuses: 3 pop: 8.3 food/turn 4: 8.5 5: 8.6 6: 8.66 7: 8.7 Which, I'll be damned, does actually make farmers not worth employing aside from slowing the descent into losing the pop. In fact, it's not until the industrial era that you can get improvements that make the farmers produce more than they consume. The best you can ask for is to either get some sort of perk to boost them to 9/turn or more. That being said, exploitation is still only okay. I still disagree with 14+ food being common; it might be for the first couple of tiles, but after that unless you are spending half the game making giant circles of crops you're still going to be barely breaking even. Especially at the start, that's a handicap. So using farmers to stave off starvation and then using other things like harbors or improvements to build is good. Also in terms of exploitation, looks like harbors are actually not a bad choice, since they can pull from two tiles away for exploitation, although you can only build one of them per area.
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Aug 24, 2021 00:48
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do wonders disappears if you detroy the outpost/city they're attached to?
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Aug 24, 2021 01:00
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Clarste posted:Always be at city cap. More cities is better than bigger cities. You do want to make sure each city has a few territories they can grab though. Early game it is very useful to attach more territories. The bump in food/production is substantial and you don't have a big city cap anyway. I think the important thing mid-to-late-game is whether your cities have enough space to spam the districts they need. Base tile yields are eventually outclassed by the raw power of urban sprawl. One thing they've gotta change is how Independent Cities work. Right now its just a race to 100 Relations so you can buy them out, because there's no way to guarantee their independence like in Civ. I wanted a nice buffer between me and the Huns, so I settled a tribe there and maxed out our relations...then the Huns bought them out from under me. Ungrateful bastards. At least give me a chance to match their offer! 
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Aug 24, 2021 01:11
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With all the districts and especially the emblematic districts, I am feeling a little overwhelmed about city planning. Reminds me of vanilla Civ 6 and Germany. I just can’t help but fixate on the perfect layouts with the most adjacencies I can find. I know I can overwrite districts later or pillage my own to rebuild, but I still get bogged down trying to figure out the best octagon placement for unique districts and the generic ones that give adjacency bonuses. And that gets even more compounded by things like the Khmer Baray that are both Farmers Quarters and Makers Quarters. So I feel paralyzed on like turn 21 thinking: If I place my Harappan Canal Network here for food, I can later place a Mayan K’Uh Nah here for industry, and then a Khmer Baray here to take care of both. But how do I link those together? How do I plan the adjacencies before I have the districts? What yields will I be missing out on? How do I build out efficiently to the places to maximize adjacencies? And then I haven’t actually played the game in a half hour and my head hurts.
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Aug 24, 2021 01:27
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Just build loads of science districts around your Strats, money districts around your Luxuries, and food and industry districts around good tiles. Tile exploitation is nice in the early game, but adjacency bonuses eventually become overwhelming.
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Aug 24, 2021 01:33
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ccubed posted:With all the districts and especially the emblematic districts, I am feeling a little overwhelmed about city planning. Reminds me of vanilla Civ 6 and Germany. I just can’t help but fixate on the perfect layouts with the most adjacencies I can find. I'm playing on the highest difficulty and I don't even bother with that much planning  'game recommends a high yield district spot? looks good to me!' *slams tile* I'll do some basic planning for high yield national districts or defensive structures, but otherwise just taking advantage of the terrain and stacking mods seems to work fine One thing I haven't sussed out is if it's better to focus on infrastructure, districts, or a blend (not counting mandatory stuff like dealing with stability) - anyone know if/how district costs scale?
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Aug 24, 2021 01:34
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Vengarr posted:Early game it is very useful to attach more territories. The bump in food/production is substantial and you don't have a big city cap anyway. I think the important thing mid-to-late-game is whether your cities have enough space to spam the districts they need. Base tile yields are eventually outclassed by the raw power of urban sprawl. If the city cap is 2, then be at 2 cities. To be fair, the jump to 3 is a little costly, which can happen early if you choose City Councils. In other news, I'm finding it funny how easy it is to bully people into alliances. "Hey, want to be allies?" "Nah." "How dare you!" "Okay, okay, we're allies, calm down!"
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Aug 24, 2021 02:48
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CuddleCryptid posted:Also in terms of exploitation, looks like harbors are actually not a bad choice, since they can pull from two tiles away for exploitation, although you can only build one of them per area. You can even buy them out with influence when the territory is still an outpost! A cheeky way of doing this is looking for the recommended spot for harbors while the outpost is still attached to a city, detaching the outpost to buy the harbor with influence on the recommended spot, and then finally reattaching the outpost to the city.
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Aug 24, 2021 02:51
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Your Computer posted:yeah, it's taking some getting used to for me because i always prefer building tall empires to wide empires. i just like hanging out in my little corner of the world doing trade and influence and stuff, winning with money and science rather than military might or amount of land. in humankind it doesn't really feel like tall empires are even a "thing" but at least it's a lot easier and more intuitive (at least to me) to expand in this game. i always hated having to drag settlers around the map in civ but in humankind you can both explore and settle with the same units, you can assimilate independent peoples are you can even demand other cultures to give you their territories if you're culturally dominant. Tall vs Wide is such a weird false dichotomy. Empires that expand 'wide' can and should also be growing their cities 'tall'. Countries with a lot of land still have really big and developed cities. De-emphasizing expansion in a 4x game feels weird, and Civ5 in particular would swing wildly between REXing as hard as possible and capping all your cities at size 4, and settling only 4 cities for the whole game based on whatever patch was most recent because of how weird it is to try and balance both playstyles. That's ignoring the fact that there is no getting around the production node concept for 4x games - an empire with 2 cities can potentially build twice as many things per turn when compared to an empire with a single city, which is always going to be capped at 1 thing at a time.
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Aug 24, 2021 02:51
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Borsche69 posted:That's ignoring the fact that there is no getting around the production node concept for 4x games - an empire with 2 cities can potentially build twice as many things per turn when compared to an empire with a single city, which is always going to be capped at 1 thing at a time. Why does it have to be capped at one thing at a time? That's a totally arbitrary limitation that a new game could easily remove if they wanted to.
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Aug 24, 2021 02:54
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ccubed posted:With all the districts and especially the emblematic districts, I am feeling a little overwhelmed about city planning. Reminds me of vanilla Civ 6 and Germany. I just can’t help but fixate on the perfect layouts with the most adjacencies I can find. You really can not plan the adjacencies to that extent because you can never guarantee you are going to get a specific culture. The nice thing about that is that it relieves you from some of that pressure to plan out your empire from Turn 1. Circumstances can change wildly, so best to be flexible.
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Aug 24, 2021 02:57
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Clarste posted:Why does it have to be capped at one thing at a time? That's a totally arbitrary limitation that a new game could easily remove if they wanted to. Even good old Medieval Total War had seperate unit and building queues.
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Aug 24, 2021 02:59
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Tree Bucket posted:Even good old Medieval Total War had seperate unit and building queues. You know bringing that up, that's a good point. Given units cost population, a separate queue for them wouldn't be that overpowered as you're sacrificing pop.
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Aug 24, 2021 03:01
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Eimi posted:You know bringing that up, that's a good point. Given units cost population, a separate queue for them wouldn't be that overpowered as you're sacrificing pop. Could make garrisons a separate build queue to give a reason to build them. Just extend the time it takes to train units unless you buy them out. "You have six garrisons and can field an army in a single turn? Sure if you want to devastate your economy and population"
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Aug 24, 2021 03:07
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Depending on the amount of production or gold you have, a big city can pop multiple high veterancy units out in one turn fwiw.
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Aug 24, 2021 03:09
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Clarste posted:Why does it have to be capped at one thing at a time? That's a totally arbitrary limitation that a new game could easily remove if they wanted to. If they do then multiple cities will get that same bonus and you'll get an exponential increase in production nodes instead of multiplicative. Unless you had some weird balance thing where an empire with X number of cities loses that abilitiy on every city after Y which is just really convoluted anyway. I guess you could also enact heavy production penalties on empires with X number of cities to make sure that the smaller empires can match production but that doesn't seem like good game design - its like how Civ5 would punish larger empires by making tech costs more or whatever it was. Not really fun. MOO allows for multiple things to be produced from a single node per turn but this didn't stop you from expanding.
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Aug 24, 2021 03:12
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Danann posted:Depending on the amount of production or gold you have, a big city can pop multiple high veterancy units out in one turn fwiw. This is true too. Production overflow is huge and I've had multiple districts finish in a turn because of it.
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Aug 24, 2021 03:13
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Has anyone tried to use the "Under One Banner" expansionist ability? When targeted at peaceful civs it says you need to be at war, but when I targeted it at someone I was at war with it said I needed to change diplomatic status..
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Aug 24, 2021 05:15
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Has anyone tried to use the "Under One Banner" expansionist ability? When targeted at peaceful civs it says you need to be at war, but when I targeted it at someone I was at war with it said I needed to change diplomatic status.. I think it only works on unattached outposts? I dunno it seems of limited utility.
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Aug 24, 2021 05:42
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Has anyone tried to use the "Under One Banner" expansionist ability? When targeted at peaceful civs it says you need to be at war, but when I targeted it at someone I was at war with it said I needed to change diplomatic status.. Yeah, you have to use it on Outposts/admin centers of civs you are at peace with. I'm not sure if you can do it if you have a non-aggression treaty, but I'd guess no.
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Aug 24, 2021 05:43
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Splash Attack posted:honestly i’d like to see a civ type game go beyond the contemporary era and into true sci fi future eras. i’ve always hated how in civ when you hit the modern era, the game is essentially “well that’s it we had gandhi launching nukes but it’s impossible to imagine him in space or a cyborg” The argument i keep hearing for decades against this is "people will be confused about what is what". Also how the hell do AI civs always advance to the first age within 20 turns? How are they killing that many animals so quickly.
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Aug 24, 2021 06:26
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They can see through the Fog of War, and therefore see where the goody hoards are spawning. Your tribes can do the same thing, if you enable auto-exploration.
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Aug 24, 2021 06:33
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twistedmentat posted:The argument i keep hearing for decades against this is "people will be confused about what is what". You only need to finish 1 goal to advance. So the population or science is usually the fastest star to get. If you get 10 science you get a legacy trait which is pretty useful, so generally I try to aim for that and any star, and then if I'm super close to another I'll consider waiting unless I really want a specific culture.
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Aug 24, 2021 06:41
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If you're expansionist you should be able to trespass freely and there are generic land units like guerillas that should be invisible on the strategic map and capable of sneaking up on admin centers.
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Aug 24, 2021 06:47
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Since Zhou is probably my favorite ancient civ, I am happy waiting since the AI doesn't really go for them. Harrpans are gone insanely fast though.
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Aug 24, 2021 06:48
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twistedmentat posted:The argument i keep hearing for decades against this is "people will be confused about what is what". i never go for the animal killing star unless i'm going for a low-pick civ like zhou. you don't NEED all three stars, its honestly a bit of a trap considering the piddling amount of fame a three star neolithic era gets you compared to how much fame you stack later in the game put your first tribe on auto explore always, it will collect everything quickly. then once you've got your first star decide if you really want to grab harappans or mycenians, or if you'd rather just bumble around building up cheap pop. remember that all of the scouts you start with in the ancient era can be IMMEDIATELY converted back into city pop, giving your first city a huge head start. nothing starts a snowball like ending neolithic with a dozen scouts that get packed into your first city as soon as the districts are laid down to feed them
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Aug 24, 2021 07:05
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If you have a lot of food near you, it's worth it to spend a few extra turns spreading out to collect it all so you can generate a small horde of scouts. Take that horde to your nearest neighbor and conquer them right away. That accelerated my second campaign so much more quickly than my first.
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Aug 24, 2021 07:27
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:If you have a lot of food near you, it's worth it to spend a few extra turns spreading out to collect it all so you can generate a small horde of scouts. Take that horde to your nearest neighbor and conquer them right away. That accelerated my second campaign so much more quickly than my first. it's such a bully move but there is no penalty (and does not declare war) to just ransacking and replacing their new outposts with your own, so in one game i followed around my neighbor and took all his land before the game had even really started.
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Aug 24, 2021 07:33
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I won on the highest difficulty. Babylonians -> Achaemenid Persians -> Teutons -> Mughals -> Persians -> Turkey. They need to do something about Turkey's Public School, it is so good and you can use it to end the game whenever you want to. They may not have intended for it to add up the bonus from as many as six Research Quarters surrounding it. My science output grew exponentially until I finished the entire tech tree, and the game, on turn 139. A lot of cultures feel fun and powerful, like the Harappans and the Huns, but I think only Turkey is outright game-breaking.
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Aug 24, 2021 07:44
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Chamale posted:A lot of cultures feel fun and powerful, like the Harappans and the Huns, but I think only Turkey is outright game-breaking. They've openly stated they don't expect balance to be perfect, and they kinda want poo poo to be broken from patch to patch (in a fun way) I'm really enjoying the mixing of nation powers over eras, it has a strong board game feel
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Aug 24, 2021 07:50
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Chamale posted:I won on the highest difficulty. Babylonians -> Achaemenid Persians -> Teutons -> Mughals -> Persians -> Turkey. They need to do something about Turkey's Public School, it is so good and you can use it to end the game whenever you want to. They may not have intended for it to add up the bonus from as many as six Research Quarters surrounding it. My science output grew exponentially until I finished the entire tech tree, and the game, on turn 139. A lot of cultures feel fun and powerful, like the Harappans and the Huns, but I think only Turkey is outright game-breaking. I can hear this picture. A kind of vvvvvrrrrrrPING-!! Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Aug 24, 2021 |
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Aug 24, 2021 07:53
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The only thing people need to be careful with when spamming demands is territories. If you demand a territory, when you go to war it will be auto-ticked in the surrender list and it will still cost war score. This can make it harder to get vasselage from them and leave you with some land you maybe didn't really want.
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Aug 24, 2021 07:59
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