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StrangeThing posted:Just to be clear, no, we should never do this. This is what happens when someone buys into that bullshit "mockdown" narrative, they're completely unable to accept it was wrong and have to turn it against themselves
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Sep 6, 2021 02:38
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StrangeThing posted:Just to be clear, no, we should never do this. Section 62 provides the legal basis for ordering an individual to remain in a specified location. We already do door knocks to make sure people are complying with this and electronic monitoring would be reasonable for those who have breached the public health orders. Incarceration isn't a reasonable option because it would expose other inmates to risk (we currently have an outbreak at Parklea Correctional Centre). So no, we're not talking about literally welding people into their homes, but we are talking about escalating compliance measures for those who have demonstrated they do not intend to adhere to the orders.
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Sep 6, 2021 02:41
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Lolie posted:Section 62 provides the legal basis for ordering an individual to remain in a specified location. We already do door knocks to make sure people are complying with this and electronic monitoring would be reasonable for those who have breached the public health orders. Incarceration isn't a reasonable option because it would expose other inmates to risk (we currently have an outbreak at Parklea Correctional Centre). So no, we're not talking about literally welding people into their homes, but we are talking about escalating compliance measures for those who have demonstrated they do not intend to adhere to the orders. Yeah, that's fine.
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Sep 6, 2021 02:43
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abigserve posted:Certainly this is not Gospel but the vast majority of cases here in ACT seem to stem from essential businesses; Also anecdotally via a client who works in the Vic contract tracing dept, they’re having huge problems with family gatherings and people not wanting to dob in people in attendance. The supermarket exposure sites aren’t too bad because they can ping the majority of attendees via the app but it’s taking them ages and multiple interviews to tease out the details of illegal friends/family gatherings. It’s a big driver of the mystery cases we’re seeing.
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Sep 6, 2021 02:45
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StrangeThing posted:This is hosed up. $850 per person isn't actually cheap for a fuckton of Australians, also ABS just reports gate arrivals so there's going to be some pretty significant double-counting in that. I'll admit I was surprised that professional travel didn't make up a larger % of short-term returns, holiday and visiting relatives accounted for 83% of them in calendar 2018 (https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-transport/overseas-arrivals-and-departures-australia/latest-release#data-download)
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Sep 6, 2021 02:49
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Certainly not cheap, maybe, but not outrageously expensive. A lot of Australians go overseas, this isn't some weird, rare, thing, lol. http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8057-australian-holiday-travel-powered-by-population-growth-sotn-june-2019-201907120716
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Sep 6, 2021 02:52
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Regarding travel chat, I don't know about everyone else, the as soon as those international boarders are open iam getting my rear end outta here as soon as possible. My problem with Australia is it is full of Australian. typical that the dutchie wants to let ‘er rip
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Sep 6, 2021 02:53
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StrangeThing posted:Certainly not cheap, maybe, but not outrageously expensive. A lot of Australians go overseas, this isn't some weird, rare, thing, lol. 5.5 million compared to over 10 million is a pretty meaningful difference
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Sep 6, 2021 02:59
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Solemn Sloth posted:5.5 million compared to over 10 million is a pretty meaningful difference 10 million people went overseas, the 5.5 million is for overseas holidays. That's 20% of the population. That's a lot.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:01
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birdstrike posted:typical that the dutchie wants to let ‘er rip Hahahaha gently caress yeah. I can't loving wait to get the gently caress outta here. Talk to some people who live I the real world d accept what is happening around them. I gotta through the WA health system collapse when the eneviable delta outbreak occurs, but I am strong, I am sure I'll manage. I am thinking fly into Amsterdam, kick around for a few days, visit my omas home town , the maybe shoot down to Spain, the maybe hit up Morocco too. I can't wait, it gonna be great.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:06
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Launchpad McQuack posted:Hahahaha gently caress yeah. I can't loving wait to get the gently caress outta here. Talk to some people who live I the real world d accept what is happening around them. I gotta through the WA health system collapse when the eneviable delta outbreak occurs, but I am strong, I am sure I'll manage. Awesome have fun
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Sep 6, 2021 03:08
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gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:09
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Visit my sisters and my young nephews and nieces. That's all I want.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:10
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gay picnic defence posted:Also anecdotally via a client who works in the Vic contract tracing dept, they’re having huge problems with family gatherings and people not wanting to dob in people in attendance. The supermarket exposure sites aren’t too bad because they can ping the majority of attendees via the app but it’s taking them ages and multiple interviews to tease out the details of illegal friends/family gatherings. It’s a big driver of the mystery cases we’re seeing. You only have to look around in Sydney to see how far we are from a true, enforceable lockdown. If we seriously want to stop spread we need to create an environment where there are so few people and cars around that police can effectively ask everyone what their reason for being out is. We saved ourselves in early 2020 by getting properly shitscared about leaving our houses, and because we got properly shitscared about leaving our houses we didn’t have to stay that way for long. Approaching lockdown as an equilibrium problem, trying to work out how much lockdown you can sustain indefinitely, is like trying to work out the right amount of stray fire to tolerate in your house. You don’t think “how much firefighting can I stand to do today and every day for the rest of the year” and then do that amount and go to bed. You either put the fire out or evacuate immediately. But we’re the victims of a con run by the LNP, to persuade us that we can reach a compromise with a deadly virus. Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. Go out for loving dinner again The Artificial Kid fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 03:19
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. Psycho Las Vegas festival and return via hawaii for a week or two for some RnR Nederlands/Germany/Slovenia/cool europe Japan/Canada for snowboarding ideally I get some instructors certs before Japan/Canada and i can become a ski bum chasing winter until winter no longer exists.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:22
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The Artificial Kid posted:Yeah it’s obvious that people aren’t taking this seriously enough and nobody is making us take it seriously enough, which is one of the most important functions of government in an epidemic. In theory a respiratory epidemic can be controlled entirely through individual action (isolation and care) but in practice it’s never going to happen without government guidance, government punishment and government support. How do we account for Victoria, then?
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Sep 6, 2021 03:24
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. Meals with family. Sleepovers with my grandchildren. Spend extended time with my kids. Last time there was a lull and stuff was reasonably open I got a manicure and went and saw Hamilton.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:28
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. I'll do all my normal life stuff I don't know why you're so angry. Once the vaccines are finally done and the setup is finished you can do whatever you like. Chill the gently caress out.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:29
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StrangeThing posted:This is hosed up. Yeah, no. This is my exact point. You live in this bubble where $850 is cheap. Travel is a luxury. $850 is not cheap. I'm also wondering looking at these graphs how they got their data. Is it a direct relation, did 2 million individual Aussies holiday overseas? Or does that represent 2 million trips, because a bunch of those will be repeat customers then. And while 20% of the population is a chunk, it's not enough to consider it normal, or cheap. Cheap for a flight historically, sure. Cheap? No. And how many Aussies put that poo poo on credit and then get themselves into horrendous debt? $90 flights are cheap. Those European hop around flights are cheap. Most Aussie flights, especially for a West Australian, or nowhere near cheap.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:30
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. wishlist is - outdoor cinema in summer play live music more often ideally see Andrew WK do his new stuff live and dance my head off
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Sep 6, 2021 03:30
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$850 for a flight to the US is cheap compared to what flights once cost. It's cheap to me and most people that would be eyeing international holidays to countries that aren't a huge value proposition like Vietnam or whatever.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:32
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Konomex posted:Yeah, no. This is my exact point. You live in this bubble where $850 is cheap. Travel is a luxury. $850 is not cheap. Are you unironically arguing that most Australians don't travel or are you doing some weird bit
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Sep 6, 2021 03:32
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Konomex posted:And while 20% of the population is a chunk, it's not enough to consider it normal, or cheap. Cheap for a flight historically, sure. Cheap? No. And how many Aussies put that poo poo on credit and then get themselves into horrendous debt? $850 is not a particularly useful example, but yes, 20% of the population is absolutely enough to consider it normal. Before the pandemic, you could get flights between Melb-Syd for under $100. Is this thread seriously at the point now where we are saying it's uncommon for Australians to go overseas? We are some of the most traveled people in the world.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:35
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StrangeThing posted:How do we account for Victoria, then? People not doing the right thing.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:35
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I went to Hawaii in march 2019 for $350 return that deal got offered a few times that year, to the point I very nearly got 2x tickets for my parents for christmas that year. Glad I didnt!
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Sep 6, 2021 03:36
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gay picnic defence posted:People not doing the right thing. What proof do we have that the majority of the spread is through people breaking the rules, and not through essential workers? Do we have that breakdown available?
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Sep 6, 2021 03:38
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In the context of travel for family purposes: X amount of people travelling out of the country once per year is still, you know, once a year. Say for argument's sake you fly to Europe or India or New Zealand or wherever your family is, once a year. That's two trips you've missed, which in the context of preserving Australia from the ravages of a global pandemic, is worth it. If you're living in different countries you're not going to see your family much in the first place. That's just how it is. It's a bit different if you're from, say, Sydney, but are raising kids in Brisbane. But it's still worth it, especially since it's not like the border has been closed the whole time. We're really only talking about a few months here, and a few extra months to preserve their COVID-free way of life until vaccination hits a ceiling.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:40
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freebooter posted:In the context of travel for family purposes: X amount of people travelling out of the country once per year is still, you know, once a year. Say for argument's sake you fly to Europe or India or New Zealand or wherever your family is, once a year. That's two trips you've missed, which in the context of preserving Australia from the ravages of a global pandemic, is worth it. If you're living in different countries you're not going to see your family much in the first place. That's just how it is. People should be allowed to travel out of the country. Doesn't mean they should necessarily be let back in, though. The outbound travel ban is a human rights violation of the highest order. But in general, I agree—tougher internal borders will only be around for a little while longer.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:44
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freebooter posted:In the context of travel for family purposes: X amount of people travelling out of the country once per year is still, you know, once a year. Say for argument's sake you fly to Europe or India or New Zealand or wherever your family is, once a year. That's two trips you've missed, which in the context of preserving Australia from the ravages of a global pandemic, is worth it. If you're living in different countries you're not going to see your family much in the first place. That's just how it is. I have a friend who lives in Melbourne who has a son who lives in Kalgoorlie and a daughter who lives in Sydney. Two of my children live in Sydney metro and one in the upper Hunter. I've found it more difficult not seeing my kids and grandkids for months at a time than she has precisely because I'm used to seeing them frequently and with very little planning, whereas she's used to seeing hers only occasionally.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:47
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StrangeThing posted:What proof do we have that the majority of the spread is through people breaking the rules, and not through essential workers? Do we have that breakdown available? We are kind of all at cross purposes here. There are two separate things going on, compliance and policy. The ongoing mingling of infected and uninfected people is proof that the product of policy and compliance is insufficient. Whether that’s because people are wilfully not doing the right thing, or not doing enough of the right thing because they’re confused about what the right thing is, or if “the right thing” as determined by the government actually isn’t yet enough of the right thing, is a more complex question. But if contact tracers are teasing out illegal family gatherings that are hampering the tracing effort, that certainly suggests that at least some of the problem is wilful non compliance, because those people know not to tell the contact tracers immediately where they’ve been.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:49
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The Artificial Kid posted:We are kind of all at cross purposes here. There are two separate things going on, compliance and policy. At least some of it is, absolutely no doubt. I mean we saw the video of the engagement party and I'm sure we've all heard or seen something in our social circles that suggests people are breaking the rules in an unsafe way (as opposed to doing three hours of exercise outdoors instead of two, which is technically against the rules but completely safe). I can't remember where, but I thought I saw reporting that suggested the vast majority of second-wave infections last year were due to essential workers, not home spread.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:54
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I live under the poverty line, and have done so since 2013. What am I going to be doing? Same as I always do, trying to survive. I've essentially been in lockdown for 8 years. And being immuno-compromised, I'm glad to live in WA, and would really like to kick any of these fuckers who can't seem to handle being locked down for 6 weeks or so in the balls. And doubly so for the LNP not increasing welfare payments so the poorest can afford to stay home, not have to go out to do poo poo jobs or search for ways to make it through the week on the pittance that's given, so that this outbreak can be contained and stopped. Holidays? Trips overseas? $850? Yeah, nah.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:01
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StrangeThing posted:
Last year those workers weren't bringing home Delta and infecting the whole household, and someone from that household popping in to visit another branch of the family wasn't likely to infect the whole of the second household. The game has changed. We needed people to move around even less than last year but didn't give them any additional support to allow that to happen.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:06
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. My buddy lives a couple streets over and I haven't seen him, his wife and his daughter in like a year. She's gonna be three this year! Uncle Kirbo needs to find her a good Christmas present..
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Sep 6, 2021 04:06
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StrangeThing posted:20% of the population StrangeThing posted:Is this thread seriously at the point now where we are saying it's uncommon for Australians to go overseas?  I know this is largely just splitting hairs about what is 'normal' and 'common', but the point is that although enough Australians travel overseas regularly enough for it to be unremarkable, they are outnumbered by the Australians who don't do this, and people who used to travel overseas every year (including myself) should stop wringing their hands over how travel is part of the core Australian national identity or whatever. Anyway, when the travel discussion came up it was in reference to it being uncommon for most Australians to go overseas in recent memory of 20-40 years ago, which is still true regardless of how many trips people were taking in 2017.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:11
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Lolie posted:Last year those workers weren't bringing home Delta and infecting the whole household, and someone from that household popping in to visit another branch of the family wasn't likely to infect the whole of the second household. Yeah I don't think at the point the problem is enforcement as it is doing very little meaningful to support people.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:13
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I mean, over 50% of Australians have a passport. That’s higher than a lot of countries. It is normal for Australians to go overseas. Maybe not every year, but yes, it is normal and common for people to travel. I don’t really care about the identity bullshit.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:13
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I can't wait for little abigserve to go ask to see his friend and I can tell him sure, lets walk over there and have a nice visit. That's what I want, to see my boy interacting with his peers again.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:15
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It's both true that international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, and that its popularity is still heavily skewed by socio-economic class and migration background. 20% of Australians may travel internationally every year, but the median Australian travels a /lot/ less than that implies because most of the people who do either have family overseas or are middle class or above. It's not surprising that Sydney is going to be the first place that reopens international travel, because it has both a lot more upper middle class people and a lot more people born overseas than average for Australia.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:16
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Launchpad McQuack posted:gently caress this negative poo poo. What is everyone gonna do when they can do stuff again? Come people look forward to some good poo poo and I want to hear it. catch up with family at the local RSL so bub and his cousins can run around on the play equipment together and adults can eat a parma
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Sep 6, 2021 04:17
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