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Yeah, but the "we can't save everything" idea is a bit stupid. Not back in the 60s when storage was counted in kilobytes, but today it's just like "throw it all in there, what's a megabyte more?"
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Oct 3, 2021 14:49
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ymgve posted:Yeah, but the "we can't save everything" idea is a bit stupid. Not back in the 60s when storage was counted in kilobytes, but today it's just like "throw it all in there, what's a megabyte more?"
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Oct 3, 2021 15:08
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If they are discussing the best physical methods of keeping time, maybe they are planning for an encyclopedia that doesn't require computers?
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Oct 3, 2021 15:30
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duz posted:If they are discussing the best physical methods of keeping time, maybe they are planning for an encyclopedia that doesn't require computers? Holding out for a scene where they develop the Voyager 1 star maps and "nothing valued is here" warnings
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Oct 3, 2021 15:31
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Oh, right, that was actually my initial impression during my viewing. At the same time, sending out a Voyager-like package of data on a probe could also help once the fallen civilization gets back to the point of being able to access stuff encoded that way
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Oct 3, 2021 15:34
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Arglebargle III posted:What do you look for in good lighting? What I'm appreciating here is the, to drop a  word, chiaroscuro, the interplay of light and shadow. This show has a lot of scenes where the characters appear to shine in darkness with dramatic shadows on and around them. It's difficult to achieve as cameras generally need a lot more light than the human eye to do their work. Stanley Kubrick famously borrowed a special lens from NASA, one of only 10 made to photograph the dark side of the moon, to shoot candlelit scenes in his film Barry Lyndon (and then this feeds into the conspiracy theory that the moon landing was a hoax).
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Oct 3, 2021 15:42
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:You don't shorten a dark age by hoarding knowledge until the moment it's over. Yeah, you put all the information on a whole swarm of computers, send them out on a long near lightspeed trip into deep space to reduce the flow of time (and thus entropy) on their hardware and have them swing back around to drop their information bombs on all the planets in repeated waves over the few thousand years of the dark ages so that as soon as people are able to decode it they can get access to it, and even if they destroy earlier information drops in the conflict you have a constant stream of them arriving.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:59
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galenanorth posted:Oh, right, that was actually my initial impression during my viewing. At the same time, sending out a Voyager-like package of data on a probe could also help once the fallen civilization gets back to the point of being able to access stuff encoded that way Well the main theme of the early books was use knowledge to shorten the forthcoming dark age not preserving the knowledge, the main theme of the later books was just Asimov keep writing more books for publisher fat checks. Also interesting, when Asimov was writing the "dark age" in the 1950s he was thinking of the post-Roman empire middle age which was not all that dark by all accounts. Dark Age to me, was the Bronze age collapse that spanned multiple civilizations in near east and possible climate change related. There was also a few hundred years of unrecorded period in Greece before the classical Greece period. Writing was lost.
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Oct 3, 2021 16:08
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I don't think that was widely known in the 1940s. The stuff on Terminus this week was downright confusing, since they see an anachreon ship through binoculars, then pick them up on radar 40 hours away, then are surprised that an advanced party has already arrived. Either Salvor is very stupid or there was a VFX problem and the ship wasn't supposed to appear on the binoculars just a few miles away. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 16:57
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Maybe dumb question: If i only watched the show, should i know who or what "the mule" that every second post is talking about is? So far i'm liking it. Lots of building an interesting universe which i always like. Empire gives good Dune-vibes. They should have cut out the romance subplot on the spaceship though. Was excited to see Strike Back's Wyatt as not-Han Solo. Given that he stayed true to his former role so far and sexxed up the girl 5 minutes after arriving on screen i expect the three measly gunships go boom in a spectacular fashion in the next episode no problem. Curious where the show goes from there.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:06
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The binoculars are super future-tech, I think. Earlier, space-boyfriend is showing Salvor all the planets he's been to and they're just holding it by hand and its flopping around loose, gotta be some magic in it.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:07
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Lester Fremen
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Oct 3, 2021 17:08
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bou posted:Maybe dumb question: If i only watched the show, should i know who or what "the mule" that every second post is talking about is? No
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Oct 3, 2021 17:09
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Data Graham posted:Lester Fremen Lol
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Oct 3, 2021 18:17
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Thank you friend!
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Oct 3, 2021 21:19
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Is popular book reader opinion that Shearsmith’s character is a Second Foundationer? bou, there are many hurdles to the Sheldon Plan in the future and The Mule is one of these stumbling blocks introduced at the end of the second book. We probably get there next season or in the third. Odoyle fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 00:17
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How many episode is in a Apple show reason? I have no idea.
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Oct 4, 2021 01:03
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This show has 10 episodes for the first season. Supposedly they have an 80 episode story laid out.
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Oct 4, 2021 01:22
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Odoyle posted:Is popular book reader opinion that Shearsmith’s character is a Second Foundationer? I'm guessing not. IMO it works better for the premise if the Plan stands on its own for at least a while, so it feels too early for the Second Foundation to be actively manipulating events. His character does feel like there's something more than meets the eye, though. I haven't read Foundation and Chaos yet, though. It's one of the three officially licensed fan-fiction books that takes place at the same time as the short story corresponding to the first two episodes. I hadn't read it because the Foundation series is so long I was in "read another book" meme territory, but with the Robot/Foundation universe. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 01:58
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Man, I can't believe they killed off Lee Pace's character in ep 3
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Oct 4, 2021 08:09
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stephenthinkpad posted:My complaint of Foundation books is that the premise of math predicting human future is janky, not that it's soft scifi or hard scifi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bueno_de_Mesquita Kazzah posted:Man, I can't believe they killed off Lee Pace's character in ep 3 I really like what they've done with the Cleons. Moving from episode 2 to 3 and having the actors all switch characters and they are doing a great job of selling it. You can tell how episode 3's (new) Brother Dusk is Lee Pace's character from ep2 and so on. Loving the stuff on Trantor. Tiggum posted:A scientist, Hari Seldon, used his revolutionary new science to predict that the galactic government would fall. The head of that government (who is a clone) didn't want to hear that but there was a terrorist attack that seems to confirm it, so he banished Seldon and all his friends to the farthest edge of the galaxy to write an encyclopaedia. On the way, Seldon was murdered and his assistant thrown off the ship for reasons, as yet, unknown. When they get to their destination, there's a weird artefact there that no one can get near. Guy who believes in The Plan (that the empire is collapsing and is potentially halfway into that collapse): hey, we should ask the Empire for help, way out here at the edge of the galaxy! Communications Officer: The Empire isn't answering our calls... Guy who believes in The Plan (that the empire is collapsing and is potentially halfway into that collapse): uhhh...try again... 
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Oct 4, 2021 18:01
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I've not read any of the books and I am enjoying this show a lot, both the trantor stuff and the terminus stuff. It's a little, idk, melodramatic at times but that's fine. Not every sci-Fi story needs a wise cracking space dog. Robot lady is pretty fascinating. I enjoyed the cut to the first Cleon. I hope we get more of her backstory as time goes on.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:23
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Show continues to be good across the board. It's an ideal balance between austere and goofy.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:53
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Nitrousoxide posted:The central conceit to the Foundation is a bit silly since they don't really need to make choices on what to save or not, They could store everything in a computer and then go to near lightspeed to get time dialation until the scheduled end of the dark ages and then spread their stored information around all in a matter of days from their perspective. Have you read A Canticle for Leibowitz? A fun bit of post-apocalyptic Dark ages sci-fi where they attempt to save as much information as they can, and the consequences of relying on medieval monks to do so.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:57
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I always thought the fall was intended to be a long period of intense war, and then eventually the factions will be so destroyed and then the foundation can come in and help people rebuild. But the show seems to be behaving as if someone is going to shut the lights off all at once and everyone will instantly start beating each other with sticks and stones. Also I'd think that if you live on a planet with an extreme climate like no easily accessible water, the civilization there probably requires a great deal of tech and engineering to make sure everyone doesn't die. The Fremen relied on massive windtraps to gleen moisture from the air, and stillsuits and technology to reclaim water from corpses. That was already existing tech or based on stuff already available. If that vanished, then the people are dead and you don't really have to worry about uplifting them from barbarism. That reminds me, it annoys me in sci fi shows where they show colonies in the middle of rock quarries. No one is going to build a large settlement away from a body of fresh water, either a river or a lake. No one builds away from readily available water, so why does the Terminus settlement seem like its on the island from The Terror? The Expanse did this to with the Belters on Ilus, and we know that planet had open water, because it literally tries to kill them. Just cgi a river into your establishing shots, or is that not Alien for you?
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Oct 4, 2021 21:12
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twistedmentat posted:I always thought the fall was intended to be a long period of intense war, and then eventually the factions will be so destroyed and then the foundation can come in and help people rebuild. But the show seems to be behaving as if someone is going to shut the lights off all at once and everyone will instantly start beating each other with sticks and stones. It felt like that would've gone well with the narration "predicted exactly where the colony would be founded", i.e. following a basic rule of civilization that was somehow put in mathematical terms
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Oct 4, 2021 21:40
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Foundation: The Folly of Centralized Government
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Oct 4, 2021 21:43
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maybe I'm not up to my sci-fi or science for that matter, but did anyone else found it weird that space elevator is treated more of an achievement in the empire (or at least Cleon clones, - maybe its a sentiment?), than the vip spaceships that can create their own black holes to teleport across known universe?
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Oct 4, 2021 22:17
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Yeah, jump ships that manipulate gravity to bend spacetime or however they work seem like a way huger achievement. The massive space elevator connected to a moon-sized structure in low-orbit also seems like a profoundly absurd idea from an engineering standpoint. A 14-hour descent in a space elevator to a single fixed point on the surface somehow makes more sense than a fleet of vessels that ferry people on and off-planet using gravity thrusters? If I was trying to get somewhere on the opposite side of Trantor from the elevator, I'd still need to take the elevator, and then hop into some arcane hyperloop to get thousands of miles away?
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Oct 4, 2021 22:35
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twistedmentat posted:I always thought the fall was intended to be a long period of intense war, and then eventually the factions will be so destroyed and then the foundation can come in and help people rebuild. in the books thats mostly how it happens. there is a big thing about the youngs dont learn trades and so the empire is slowly forgeting how to use its infrastructure tech. for example they dont know how to make new plumbing but they do know how to repair it but all those dudes are old in the first few chapters of the first book. then the empire loses its grip when space texas secede and then everyone else is like oh its cool if they go? then we are going to. then it picks up with like 100 yrs later or something and the foundation is trying to help the different territories be lifted out of barbarism and a bunch of cryptic messages about where the 2nd foundation is. then it was the mule showing that even psychohistory isnt perfect then it was the 2nd foundation and then it ties into the irobot universe. i suspect the show may not want to go with that final thread. stephenthinkpad posted:My complaint of Foundation books is that the premise of math predicting human future is janky, not that it's soft scifi or hard scifi. its so much worse then using math to predict human future it uses history psychology and math in an unholy mish mash to do it.
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Oct 4, 2021 22:38
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let's be honest the real suspension of disbelief requirement for the space elevator is that Cleon's prestige transit thing is useful and not a streetcar to nowhere
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Oct 4, 2021 22:38
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Hey, I know the books is decades old, but can we not spoil the upcoming events of the TV series in this thread?
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Oct 4, 2021 22:44
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snergle posted:its so much worse then using math to predict human future it uses history psychology and math in an unholy mish mash to do it. We have that already; it's called "sociology." Asimov has since admitted that he should have called it "sociohistory," but I think "psychohistory" has a better ring to it.
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Oct 4, 2021 22:50
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Gesadt posted:maybe I'm not up to my sci-fi or science for that matter, but did anyone else found it weird that space elevator is treated more of an achievement in the empire (or at least Cleon clones, - maybe its a sentiment?), than the vip spaceships that can create their own black holes to teleport across known universe? I assumed it was being treated more as a monument to himself than it was a useful technology.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:00
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It takes 14 hours to go from low orbit to surface on the galactic empire space elevator, but it will only minutes in J Bezos penis shaped rocket.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:01
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duz posted:I assumed it was being treated more as a monument to himself than it was a useful technology. It was just so Brother Day clones can make a tacky Tupac hologram greeting to show off.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:33
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I just binged the first 3 eps and wow, this was way better than what I was expecting (as a books nerd). I love the weird clone trifecta Empire, the space elevator was cool, and the adaptation makes sense for screen pretty well. I just hope the production company is willing to commit to 8 seasons 
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Oct 5, 2021 00:27
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It’s weird to me that they added a space 9/11 and a climate change planet as explicit call outs to modern real world perils, but didn’t adapt psychohistory to be about machine learning and AI applied to sociology, economics, etc. “Big data and algorithms can predict the future given enough inputs” and turning Hari into some sort of sci-fi data scientist would’ve been an interesting take and I think a little more relatable than “psychohistory is just staring at floating dust” which barely worked in the books in the first place. Love the show, though, the Cleons are great, and I love whatever accent the actress that plays Demerzel is doing.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:30
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I guess that's an issue when adapting the works of someone who didn't know what a computer would be.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:06
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:... but didn’t adapt psychohistory to be about machine learning and AI applied to sociology, economics, etc. 
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Oct 5, 2021 05:14
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