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Cranappleberry posted:It's more that the media gives an incomplete account. Much of the video, images amd explanation given by major media orgs or individual pundits lacks full context. The prosecution at also leaves out a lot (partially due to the judge not allowing things). how so? what's the proper context? can you give an example?
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 00:50 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:23 |
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On the Rittenhouse trial, there's a good episode of open args podcast where they look into the instructions and judge & prosecutor. IIRC basically the judge is a typical old white guy judge and not like a trumper and the instructions were pretty standard. https://openargs.com/oa538-the-rittenhouse-trial-instructions-explained/ Oracle posted:They need to stop using Celsius, no one in America who doesn't have a science degree knows from Celsius and they just go 'oh, 3-4 degree increase isn't bad, more warm summers for me!' because we all think in Fahrenheit. Oracle posted:They need to stop using Celsius, no one in America who doesn't have a science degree knows from Celsius and they just go 'oh, 3-4 degree increase isn't bad, more warm summers for me!' because we all think in Fahrenheit. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 11, 2021 |
# ? Nov 11, 2021 00:52 |
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Watching the video compilation, Kyle gets chased through the parking lot after breaking away from everyone else walking on the sidewalk. He then has something thrown at him, but keeps running. Rittenhouse doesn’t turn around and shoot Rosenbaum until some third party fires a gun and Rosenbaum is within striking distance of Rittenhouse. That being said, Rittenhouse testified that he knew Rosenbaum was unarmed, but self-defense claims don’t require the other party to be armed. After that, Rittenhouse keeps running away and when asked if he just shot somebody, I think he says something along the lines of “I’m going to the police”. It’s after this that more people confront Rittenhouse as more people realized he’s the shooter, and he shoots two more people (one fatally) when they physically confront him. Rittenhouse then continues down the road and tries surrendering to the police, but they drive right past him. From watching these angles and only the moments of shooting/confrontation, and not the full two hours leading up to it, I think legally he is not guilty (unless the state wanted to show another reason self-defense doesn’t apply, but I don’t know what those requirements in WI would be and generally the prosecution hasn’t tried to do that, to my knowledge.) Morally, he’s still a little poo poo that put himself in a situation that he had no place being and has multiple videos of wanting to confront and/or shoot protestors/rioters. From an ideal legal standpoint, you shouldn’t be able to act as a vigilante, walking around with a rifle to provoke opposition, but that’s not how self-defense is determined legally. Best case scenario at this point is Rittenhouse has a lovely life and is quickly forgotten by the right. If he’s actually remorseful (yeah loving right), he’ll hope to move on with his life and not get involved with politics or future riots/whatever. I doubt he’s remorseful, though, and will happily ride the right wing grift gravy train as far as it will take him.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 00:58 |
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Is there a chance that this ends up like the OJ Simpson case, where a jury lets Rittenhouse walk, but he's subsequently bankrupted by civil suit?
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:07 |
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he's still white also lol if you think his fans won't pay for it for him even if it does happen
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:11 |
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azflyboy posted:Is there a chance that this ends up like the OJ Simpson case, where a jury lets Rittenhouse walk, but he's subsequently bankrupted by civil suit? So he can just claim residence in Florida, like OJ and then never actually pay anything?
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:17 |
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I'm worried a not guilty verdict would embolden similar behavior and other acts of right wing terrorism whenever any remotely left-leaning activities occur. "Just run in fully armed and antagonize until you can argue you felt threatened, then murder them" could be the new right wing playbook.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:18 |
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InsertPotPun posted:rrrrriiiiight. Sure. If you watched the trial or read a summary of it, you miss the video of Rittenhouse talking about people coming put of a CVS saying he wishes he had his AR-15. The video interviews he has where he talks about wanting to defend people's property. His obsession with being a cop. You miss the social media posts of the militia he showed up with where they talk up themselves up and fantasize about confrontation. Many articles don't explain the limits of self-defense in Wisconsin (like the fact that committing a felony or even misdemeanor removes self-defense as an option unless one has surrendered and are being threatened with grievous bodily harm/death*). They don't explain that self-defense has to be proportional and what that means. Nor do they explain that duty to retreat isn't walking or running away then repositioning, it's leaving the situation altogether or that once someone aims a rifle at someone (which Rittenhouse did after Rosenbaum threw a plastic bag at him) they are threatening deadly force which means the people threatened, or the people near them, can respond to defend themselves. * does not apply to cops If you look at these articles and videos: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007409660/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-video-analysis.html They explain and show some background and explain a bit of what happened. But compare it to watching the full video of the shootings or even the entire protest and they're facile by comparison. Add in the context of the statutes, of the crimes Rittenhouse was committing before and during the protest, what other people were doing and etc. Primary sources versus something filtered to give some bullet points and marketed for the most engagement. Just like how actually watching the trial, or at least seeing detailed breakdowns, as well as knowing the context of the problematic justice system, will show that despite all the evidence being there, the dude is still probably going to get off. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 11, 2021 |
# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:20 |
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Can I just say that Jury Duty is (paided such tiny) bullshit. no I'm not bitter at the check I got this week.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:34 |
Nottherealaborn posted:Best case scenario at this point is Rittenhouse has a lovely life and is quickly forgotten by the right. If he’s actually remorseful (yeah loving right), he’ll hope to move on with his life and not get involved with politics or future riots/whatever. I doubt he’s remorseful, though, and will happily ride the right wing grift gravy train as far as it will take him. Even if we assume he's remorseful (which I don't), no one is going to hire him unless they're huge chuds and being cast into the national spotlight at 17 for murdering people is gonna gently caress him up immensely . Realistically his only options are to die from a drug overdose or to turn hard into the chud poo poo - either with a local chud employer or with the national chud circus.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:35 |
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Bedlam posted:I'm worried a not guilty verdict would embolden similar behavior and other acts of right wing terrorism whenever any remotely left-leaning activities occur. I mean this strategy relies on your opposition being armed but cops get away with murder because they claim they believed their victims to be armed so I don't know. I think there are places in the US where a private citizen could get away with the "believed to be threatened" lie but who knows. I hope not. Some small shred of hope in my breast wants to believe it isn't that easy despite the obvious and damning evidence to the contrary.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:35 |
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can't claim self-defense if you are in the process of committing a crime in Wisconsin*: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48 Also, its not a stand-your-ground state so if he could have kept going, he should have kept going. Also, he aimed at Rosenbaum after Rosenbaum threw the plastic bag which is threatening deadly force. Now, case law matters a great deal, too, so it's not as cut and dry as I am making it seem. Plus then you have what the judge allows, what the prosecution chooses to use, the witnesses answering things in ways that hurt the case and etc. The devil is in the details. *there is an exception to this but it doesn't necessarily apple
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:35 |
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azflyboy posted:Is there a chance that this ends up like the OJ Simpson case, where a jury lets Rittenhouse walk, but he's subsequently bankrupted by civil suit? He comes from a broken home. There isn't any money to collect.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:53 |
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No, but every payday on the regressive media welfare circuit should be sucked dry.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:58 |
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Yeah, it would be good to get the inevitable gun auction windfall preemptively garnished
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:59 |
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i don't want to argue, i appreciate the effort, i just don't think you proved your case. but, again, i do appreciate the actual answer, thank you.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 02:13 |
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Oracle posted:They need to stop using Celsius, no one in America who doesn't have a science degree knows from Celsius and they just go 'oh, 3-4 degree increase isn't bad, more warm summers for me!' because we all think in Fahrenheit. Tactless Ogre posted:Seriously.; yeah. Selling it in Celsius doesn't get through to those boneheads until you mention (Cx9/5)+32. All because nerds never learned how to talk to girls. Reminds me of this... https://twitter.com/xkcd_rss/status/1301966084086661120 Which is made even better by the follow up NYT article.... quote:Nigel Goldenfeld, one of the physicists who was the butt of the comic strip, replied in good humor. “We enjoyed the joke,” he said. But, he noted, it was not a completely accurate portrayal of what happened.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 02:25 |
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Peter Daou Zen posted:These people think Mayor Pete is somebody to aspire to. A dead eyed, career climbing psychopath who has no original thoughts or feelings of his own and just mimics president Obama. Is there anybody in the Democratic Party that has even a shred of personality? Yeah but he’s already the President and very old.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 02:29 |
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The American judicial system is designed to make people like Kyle Rittenhouse walk free with a smile, while people like his victims end up dead, in prison for as much of their life as possible, and/or enslaved. He's likely going to walk, and he is going to life the high life on wingnut welfare for the rest of his life, and probably run for office.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:09 |
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He'll flame out, because even though he's a hate filled individual, he's dumb as poo poo and if he's a minor while getting his payouts, his parents will probably blow it all.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:11 |
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The DOJ is still continuing the seizure through eminent domain of land along the US/Mex border that was meant for Trump's border wall https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1458582074034692096?s=20
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:20 |
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Doctor Butts posted:He'll flame out, because even though he's a hate filled individual, he's dumb as poo poo and if he's a minor while getting his payouts, his parents will probably blow it all. speaking of, lowtax just died
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:41 |
A big flaming stink posted:speaking of, lowtax just died https://twitter.com/cpcolin/status/1458624171114582016?s=21
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:42 |
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Cranappleberry posted:can't claim self-defense if you are in the process of committing a crime in Wisconsin*: Throwing a bag is deadly force? The two things I don't understand are why wasn't Rittenhouse charge with something like manslaughter as opposed to murder in the first degree and why is the judge refusing to allow evidence such as his conduct after the shooting? To me, someone actions after this event are entirely relevant to the case at hand - his actions with White Supremacists to wearing a "Free as gently caress" t-shirt.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:45 |
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Kraftwerk posted:This is a global problem. We need a National Port Authority patterned after Georgia Ports Authority.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:51 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Throwing a bag is deadly force? aiming the rifle is threatening deadly force and a disproportionate response to someone throwing a plastic bag
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:09 |
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Bar Ran Dun posted:We need a National Port Authority patterned after Georgia Ports Authority. There's a quote somewhere in the Libertarian thread about how public infrastructure is literally unthinkable to most Americans. Lemme find it. ed: Here we go. BalloonFish posted:Not exactly the same, but this reminded me of a guy I worked with. He wasn't a libertarian - in fact he had no avowed political positions or interests at all. But he was an excellent example of how growing up in our current society and education system removes your ability to see some things in the round...things like capitalism. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Nov 11, 2021 |
# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:11 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's a quote somewhere in the Libertarian thread about how public infrastructure is literally unthinkable to most Americans. Lemme find it. That’s a reason to pattern on GPA.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:13 |
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Cranappleberry posted:aiming the rifle is threatening deadly force and a disproportionate response to someone throwing a plastic bag Gotcha, I've only watch about 20 minutes of the case and I'm shocked it's turning into such a train wreck this quickly. Are we thinking he's going to be acquitted?
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:24 |
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So a memo justifying Trump's firing of Defense Secretary Esper dropped and....wow, its a read https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1458449906176245763?s=20
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:58 |
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CommieGIR posted:So a memo justifying Trump's firing of Defense Secretary Esper dropped and....wow, its a read lol at the photo included at the top of the page I would pay money to see Trump try to pick his cabinet out of a White Guy Lineup
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:00 |
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CommieGIR posted:So a memo justifying Trump's firing of Defense Secretary Esper dropped and....wow, its a read drat, that guy sounds like a real sick gently caress.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:02 |
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CommieGIR posted:So a memo justifying Trump's firing of Defense Secretary Esper dropped and....wow, its a read The typo of "start witness in the sham impeachment trial" in the official memo is very on brand. Also, that crazy story from one of the security guards at the Travis Scott show that nobody thought could be true turned out to be... not true. https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1458627717239386114
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:06 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:This isn’t good I feel like this is a Big Deal, didn't China already sink a bunch of gov't cheese trying to prop them up? I couldn't find a market reaction to this anywhere, but it's been a mess of a news day. And now Lowtax news will take over all the channels, side by side with the Rittenhouse trial! And the other trial in GA isn't being televised because those klansmen are clearly guilty, and their judge isn't nuts. That doesn't make for good tv.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:44 |
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VorpalBunny posted:I feel like this is a Big Deal, didn't China already sink a bunch of gov't cheese trying to prop them up? I couldn't find a market reaction to this anywhere, but it's been a mess of a news day. And now Lowtax news will take over all the channels, side by side with the Rittenhouse trial! It's been on all week on HLN. Today HLN had the block set for the Ahmaud Arbery "Jogger Murder Trial", but covered rittenhouse all afternoon, I guess because he took the stand. Either way, as I said before I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about Arbery and are talking about Rittenhouse. Arbery was murdered by 3 guys, and they are claiming Citizens Arrest + Stand your ground AKA kill whomever you want.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:11 |
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Youth Decay posted:The prosecutor also sucks, doesn't make Rittenhouse any less guilty but does make it easier for the judge/defense (who are essentially the same at this point) to muddy the waters. Basically this. I'm so grateful that my state didn't have this lovely of a prosecution team during the trial against Chauvin. I feel like Binger was asking a number of questions to Rittenhouse on cross examination that he [Binger] didn't even know the answer to. Not to mention all of the issues that others ITT had brought up. I feel like the ineptness of the prosecution team is going to be why Rittenhouse is found not guilty..... Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 11, 2021 |
# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:12 |
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Kalit posted:Basically this. I'm so grateful that my state didn't have this lovely of a prosecution team during the trial against Chauvin. I feel like Binger was asking a number of questions to Rittenhouse on cross examination that he [Binger] didn't even know the answer to. Not to mention all of the issues that others ITT had brought up. The silver lining here is that more people will realize that the judicial system is a corrupt joke and they have no protection from an ever more imperial state and its capitalist keys to power.
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:32 |
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Wild how the prosecution all turn into the Keystone Kops when the perp is someone cops and judges and DAs like: a rich celebrity and/or a murdering right-wing psycho
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:41 |
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Bel Shazar posted:The silver lining here is that more people will realize that the judicial system is a corrupt joke and they have no protection from an ever more imperial state and its capitalist keys to power. The problem is that we as a people have been reminded so very frequently that "X is broken bullshit and is awful at every level" that we've been burned out on it and have resigned ourselves to shrugging and going "What can you do?"
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:46 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:23 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:This isn’t good Seems there are conflicting reports on this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-10/evergrande-said-to-pay-delayed-interest-on-at-least-two-bonds
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# ? Nov 11, 2021 07:16 |